Jenna

I play Dungeons and Dragons, and I've met a lot of people who play WOW and 1) Have never even heard of D&D 2) Make fun of me for playing D&D, yet they're playing WOW 3) Are unwilling to try out D&D

Anyone else run into the same problem? Does it piss you off as much as it pisses me off? All the role-playing computer/console games like WOW were based off of D&D, so how do they have the right to tell me that I'm dumb for playing it?

I'd play WOW but I know I'd get addicted to it and I like ROLE playing.

Martian

I reckon that anyone who plays WoW doesn't really have the right to slam D&D. I mean, aren't they basically the same thing, once you strip all the fancy electronic gimmickry out?

I play neither, and so can offer no opinion more relevant than that.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Shauk

the problem with D&D is that it takes a really really good DM to make that level of transparency happen where it doesn't just feel like a bunch of people sitting at a table rolling die.

It also takes prepared participants.

the whole appeal to wow is more of an "action RPG" I think. you don't have to micro manage rolling the die, doing resist checks, mathematical formulas to see how much you resist or how high someone has to roll to hit you etc..


the game engine is doing all of that for you, which lets you focus on having fun.



granted there is something to be said about one of your friends having crazy antics and screaming from the kitchen about mountain dew


and now some videos in honor of the late mr gygax

blahblah454

D&D gets the bad rap because it was the first really popular role playing game.
Its what is associated with when people think "nerd".
I think that is why, people are dumb and they hold onto that, WoW is trendy and new and so its okay for people to play it and not fall under the nerd banner.

I am not saying you are a nerd, I think its awesome that you play it. But this seems to be the way people think about it.

Baraka_Guru

D&D requires far more thinking—creativity and imagination.

Perhaps hardcore WoW players are intimidated by this.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jenna

I agree and I think that my generation (I'm 20) needs constant stimulation to enjoy things for the most part. Dungeons and Dragons is tideous, they want instant gratification.

And, it's fine if someone calls me a nerd, geek, dork, etc. Because I know I am one. But I don't think it's right that they say D&D is dumb, or that I'm stupid for playing it, because essentially, they're doing the same thing as I am.

Very true! Luckily, my boyfriend is an amazing DM. He's been playing forever.

RIP Mr. Gygax. My DM gave our members +1 to our AC in his memory. Which is fucking sweet, being a monk at the moment.

Jinn

I absolutely can't stand D&D. I want my rules to be set in stone by a machine, unbendable, un-breakable and un-changeable when a DM feels like it.

Maybe its because I'm attached to computers at the hip, but I can't stand playing table-top RPGs.

And I don't play WoW, either.

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Jenna

I don't expect everyone play D&D? I'm just saying that some people who play WOW give it a bad rap when they're playing something based entirely from it.

And I know a lot of people who try out D&D and hate it; but they love WOW. That's cool too, at least you gave it a try.

Esoteric

OMG A HOT NERD!


Anyway....pay no mind to the morons that bash you for playing D&D. I personally think the old school pen & paper shit would be boring, but that's just me. I currently play WoW and I enjoy it. However, to say you're lame/stupid/whatever for playing it is just ignorant. D&D pratically created the RPG genre.

__________________
From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch
Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck
I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change
Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

n0nsensical

This is how WoW destroyed the soul of the entire MMORPG genre.

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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

Baraka_Guru

Do they even roleplay in WoW?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Esoteric

They have RP servers where people have the option to RP.

__________________
From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch
Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck
I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change
Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

Baraka_Guru

You shouldn't have told me that. One of the only things keeping me from WoW is that it seems like a PvP-heavy, Diablo-style gameplay.

I currently play on a Neverwinter Nights (NWN) server that is "roleplay heavy." [You actually get penalized--or banned--for breaking character or not roleplaying (i.e. metagaming, farming, etc.)]. But it doesn't have the first "M" in MMORPG. It's more of a MORPG, with a maximum of 64 players at a time and an average of 15 - 20 at a time. It's a good community and we have a blast "RPing" in the D&D style.

It fulfills the void I have with not having played D&D regularly since I was a teenager. Since it's NWN, it is basically AD&D rules. If you play NWN2, it's 3.5 rules (the most recent). They take a few liberties since it's on a 3D realtime engine, but they did a great job.

This basically means that I sometimes go a whole night of playing without drawing a weapon; you sometimes get caught up in the politics or frivolity of the world community. You have rivalries, gangs, good and evil. You make plans and adventures, you set up schemes and unveil trickery. You have a huge world to explore, but not so huge that you need to spend a ridiculous amount of time to get places.

There are several DMs who are generally good and can put on a good custom, on-the-fly adventure--often brutal, but sometimes hilarious. You really get to know the characters, and you form long-term relationships, whether beneficial or adversarial. I could go on as to why I love playing there, but it is unnecessary detail.

Oh, did I mention it's free?

If WoW was anything like this (but better), I would actually consider playing it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Tully Mars

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Virgins til' the day we die?

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Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Baraka_Guru

WoW will never spawn anything as campy as these:

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Scorps

I play WoW, never tried D&D but I know what it is. Not sure I will play thing else other then WoW and Rainbow Six on the XBOX.

__________________
A.K.A. PainTrain

hulk

Heh - let's be honest, regardless of if you play WoW or D&D, you're a nerd

(Yes, I've done both)

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
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Scorps

Is being a nerd really a bad thing?

__________________
A.K.A. PainTrain

Tully Mars

Every nerd I knew in high school is now very well off.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Redjake

There is a vast difference between D&D and WoW - this is the root of the issue. Saying that WoW is just a "computer version" of D&D is an invalid statement.

I absolutely LOATH D&D because it's set in a world of non-rules. You can do "anything," as long as the DM allows it - this pretty much makes anything epic or awesome that happens very watered down.

I remember the first time I played a D&D-type game in real life - I was in awe until I realized that the DM was making it all up and that there were no true rules that had to be followed. It felt very cheap and immature (if there is such a thing?)

WoW, on the other hand, has rules that must be followed - because you are in an actual game.

Another good reason that probably has WoW players spewing hatred is the fact that with the invention of WoW, it sort of gets rid of the need for D&D - you have a world that you can actually SEE, real rules that must be followed, and thousand times more players that are real people whom you would not meet in D&D. They probably are comparing a group of people sitting around a table having to "imagine" something that a random person is making up out of their head, versus a tangible and visible game that is much more pleasing to the eye. I hope at least some of this makes sense!

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Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

Lasereth

I love how all the "cool" people I graduated with are working for moving companies and mowing yards and shit and now I have my degree and making respectable money. Too true, too true.

Punk.of.Ages

This has been pissing me off for a long, long time. D&D didn't just spawn WoW, it set the basis for pretty much every game ever. I have a poster with a big ass dragon on it and it says, "We invented the boss monster."

I've been playing D&D for about ten years. I've never touched WoW. I won't allow myself, I'd get addicted.

As far as the "lack of rules" argument, that's the main reason I enjoy D&D. Just me and my friends sittin around havin a blast. We sit around and figure things out together. Some nights we don't even go on missions or anything, we just take our characters through crazy little antics.

I could never get that level of fun out of WoW or anything like WoW. It just wouldn't be the same.

And I hope you know Jenna, some of us nerdy D&D guys spend the entirety of our lives looking for a girl like you.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Shauk

Yeah why can't there be more same generation, sexually adventurous, nerdy, gorgeous women walking the halls of my internet experience, you know, without boyfriends, and actually, interested in me, or punk of ages, or you know, other guys looking for that crazy mish mash of perfection?

just throwing that out there, haha.

Baraka_Guru

This isn't universally true; some of us were foolish enough to get into small-press book publishing.

The interesting thing is, I'm a cross-disciplinary nerd: I'm a computer/book nerd. I threw myself into the latter, and look where it got me....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Scorps

I wasn't a nerd until after highschool...damn

__________________
A.K.A. PainTrain

spindles

Have you seen the size of the rule books?

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Baraka_Guru

I thought of that too, but I didn't want to get into it at the time. The newer DM rule books actually have guidelines for style of play. I'm pretty sure they outline the ins and outs of by-the-book DMs vs. other more open styles.

There are many rules. Hardcore players know them. A good DM is gauged on their ability to understand the rules and knowing when to bend them to keep the game balanced, challenging, and fun.

It isn't a free-for-all. It's a system. And a well-known one at that.

* * * * *
For an idea of the rules:

d20 Basic Rules(zip)

Everything else

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

CyCo PL

I'm too much of a stat whore to fully enjoy D&D... I almost make more of a game out of fully optimizing characters to their highest potential than the game itself. That's why I both love and hate MMO's, there are always options for improving your character, but it never ends. I've kind of stopped playing them because they're unhealthy for me.

JamesB

I played both - the only difference between D&D and WoW is that an amoeba has the intellect required to play WoW.

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m0rpheus

Heh I thought that too

Anyone who slams you for playing a table top RPG is ignorant. It's not for everyone but then again what is? I, for example, could care less about playing WoW, I got into City of Heroes briefly but that faded, but love table top because it entertains me in ways that staring at a computer monitor can't. Like socializing with people, you know in real life, like as in not over the internet.
The biggest minus to table top gaming is that you do need a good DM (or GM or ST or whatever the system calls it) for a game to be really good. The biggest plus is no annoying dickwads being assholes. Well, assuming you are playing with friends and your friends aren't assholes.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Jenna

Luckily, I'm playing with a couple of guys that are really into it. And the DM is my boyfriend, and he's really good at it, actually.

I had a lot of trouble even getting to play. No one wanted to play with me. I was new, a girl, and a lot of people think that bringing girlfriend's along is a strict NO. Whenever I go into gaming stores people look at me like "What the fuck are you doing here?" type of thing. So, I played by myself for a long time, with my boyfriend as the DM.

Thankfully, now I have some others to play with.

I'm sure there are Shauk! Just keep looking!

Exactly.

Punk.of.Ages

I would love if my girlfriend, or any of the guys in my groups' SO's took an interest and wanted to play with us.

You misunderstood here. I know the average type of guy that lurks the gamestores well. Chances are what you took as "You don't belong." was actually "Oh God, pretty girl in sight. Hide before she spots you looking at her."

They're not exactly the most girl savvy bunch.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Shauk

whatever, boba fett made it work... oh wait.. he buttraped some dude, nevermind.

gduventree

When I first met my wife, she was not a gamer. But after sharing stories about some of the D&D sessions I regularly played in she expressed interest in attending. At first she just observed but pretty soon she joined in and became a full-fledged D&D gamer.

Several years later and after having a daughter, we don't play D&D anymore but I recently introduced her to the wonders of WoW and she's hooked along with me.

Moral of the story is while the perfect woman may not start out as a gamer she can blossom into a raging geek with a little encouragement

Scorps

me and my x-gf used to play WoW together all the time, then The Burning Crusade came out she got pregnant so she quit.

I still get why guys a a video game store would give you the odd look more and more women are getting into gaming and I like it.

__________________
A.K.A. PainTrain

m0rpheus

Too bad you didn't live around me when you wanted to learn play. The one of local gaming/comic shop is owned and run primarily by a girls. Actually now that I think about it the last male staff member quit a few months back. As a result we seem to have a rather high male to female gamer ratio. The guys still tend to out number the girls but it's like 3 to 1 not 100 to 1.
If more shops were like (even if it wasn't solely women, just one or two staff members) this I think women would have a much easier time learning how to play.
The nice side effect to this is less sweaty, unwashed gamer guys.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Cynthetiq

my wife loves to play D&D. I like to play but hate that most magic users are not so prepared that they don't have to consult the tombs of books that comprise all the different level spells at their disposal. It's a little tediuous because of that.

Also, those that say they need to SEE the game. I've played in some shops that have actual dungeon mazes and painted lead characters. It was awesome to see the maze unfold as the ceilings were revealed to show some of the world in front of you.

We've been trying to get into a game that's been running for a few years, but as people get older, they get kids and time seems to slip away.

she loves WoW and I'll start playing again when the new expansion comes out. Now I'm onto other games and projects.

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Ustwo

If my wife played MMO's, who would feed our children?

No its best the way it is, for the species.

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Sun Tzu

I think thats why RPG video games have surpassed traditional RPGs as a whole.

Playing standard RPGs does help in enhancing an imagination. I tried playing D and D three years ago, but couldnt get in to it like I did when I was younger. For very much of the points you brought up here. I am, however always open to playing a good RPG video game.

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Shauk

Oh god this hurt my ribs.