hulk

Why does nobody complain about all the third party trash on the PS2?

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Shauk

Nintendo is about "fun"
they dont care about elaborate story lines, they don't care about pushing the technological envelope graphics wise. they don't care about trying to get a "badass" gamer centric image.

I respect that company, but there are at LEAST 3 different sub markets within the gaming community.

The casuals (the popcap gamers) who can only really play a little per day, at break or something cuz they've got nothing better to do.
The "deeps", the people who've been playing since atari, have the konami code memorized, and have a favorite final fantasy.
The mediums, the people drawn in by the glitzy flashy high tech graphics but really don't give 2 shits about a story line anyway
oh and thats just the big ones. I mean you can narrow it down more to competitive gamers, pc enthusiasts, mmo junkies, etc..

Nintendo just appeals to all ages, and thats the safest bet when dealing with numbers.

hulk

The first two points are incorrect, but you're spot on with the third one, Shauk. This is the first generation that they've intentionally downplayed the power of their console.

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Lasereth

Because it has an absolutely tremendous amount of third party borderline game of the year titles that came out every single year, usually every 3 months.

stevie667

Theres super smash bro's & Geometry wars coming out soon, both of those should be good hits.

If only the dimwits hadn't sold Rare we would have had some cracking games (Perfect Dark 3 w/ a lightgun, awesome!)

__________________
Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

Baraka_Guru

I've seen gameplay videos of this.

It looks like you need ADHD and/or energy drinks and/or illicit uppers as a prerequisite to play. Looks cool, though:
<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0" id="gtembed" width="480" height="392"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="sameDomain" /> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.gametrailers.com/remote_wrap.php?mid=28216"/> <param name="quality" value="high" /> <embed src="http://www.gametrailers.com/remote_wrap.php?mid=28216" swLiveConnect="true" name="gtembed" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" allowFullScreen="true" quality="high" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="392"></embed> </object>

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

PonyPotato

I own both an Xbox 360 and a Wii. Playing Wii sports is highly addictive, but quitting is just as easy. I haven't played with the console since March or April, I think.

When it comes to the games available, I personally despised Wario Ware, but only barely got started playing Zelda. I love Wii tennis and boxing, though. Elebits was boring, and I imagine most of the other games are the same way.. I like puzzle games (TETRIS), and I have yet to see one advertised for Wii that gets my attention enough to buy it.

I have a 360 largely because of its online connectivity. Wii is really the most fun when you're playing against another person (usually in the same room), and though you can have "friends" online, the technology to play games against people online hasn't yet been developed. If that was complete, I probably wouldn't own a 360.

I got a 360 largely for my weakness for Halo. I really don't play games that much, but they're useful for rainy, miserable days when I have someone over to entertain. I'm competitive, and playing a game tends to be more interactive than watching TV or a movie. I haven't yet set my 360 up in my school apartment so I don't ruin my GPA in my last quarter. I'm good at resisting the pull of games.. so sometimes I really wonder why I have them to begin with.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Dr Mario Kart

I'm going to start with this, which is basically the very common, "but it has a low attach rate" argument.

Why is the attach rate skewed lower than their competitors?

Key point: Attach rates drop as marketshare increases.

This can be approached two ways, size of overall marketshare, and SPEED of increase, I'll take overall marketshare first as it relates to attach rates.

Historically, only the hardcore buys systems near launch, and then as more people filter in with different interests, due to lower prices and a wider range of software, overall attach rate drops. The top selling games for playstation 2, having sold over 120M hardware units, are GTA:VC and Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec at roughly 15 M a piece (12.5% attach). It drops dramatically from there. Mario Galaxy, excluding Europe, has about 3 million out of roughly 13 million hardware (~23%)

# Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (12 million)[95]
# Grand Theft Auto III (12 million,[94] may include PC and Xbox versions)
# Gran Turismo 4 (9.52 million)[82]
# Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (7 million)[96]
# Final Fantasy X (6.6 million)[97]
# Kingdom Hearts (5.6 million shipped)[72]

You can certainly argue that the Playstation 2 doesnt have a "flagship" series, though for many people, Gran Turismo is Sony's big fish.

Nintendo has come out of the gate attracting different groups of people than would traditionally buy a game machine, whereas normally, the casuals wouldnt come into play until later in the generation when the prices are lower.

Contrast this with Microsoft's strategy - From the start it was to consolidate the "hardcore" base, and also making new "pseudo-hardcore" players, due to the hooks of online and achievements. While it has served to get them a ridiculous software attach rate, hardware install base growth is limited.

Next: Speed of increase, which is a more relevant issue to the Wii, being the fastest selling game machine in history.

Selling as many consoles as the 360 has in half the time means that weeks of ownership are going to be a lot lower. If Nintendo had sold that amount over 2 years rather than 1, people wouldve had a lot more time, and more importantly MONEY, to buy games. They basically just got the system into their home and are out maybe $350-400+ after their first batch of games and accessories.

As an aside about Mario Galaxy, you havent provided any grounds to as why the current rate of sales is disappointing, outside of your personal view that a "flagship" series ought to do better. I think this post overall frames why I think they are NOT disappointing.

In my next post, I shall address 3rd party software sales and profit, since thats another hot issue thats somewhat related. Its only numbers that give us a bigger picture. Whether you personally think the software is good is as irrelevant as my disliking the software on the HD consoles.

Lasereth

My latest issue of EGM had a very interesting article in it about Nintendo's software policy. Sony and Microsoft both have entire departments allocated to quality control. That means if a game is proposed to be developed for the system, it has to go through a review board that approves or denies the game. If the tech demo or quality of the game is lower than what the board feels is necessary then the game is denied. You can't just make a product for the PS3 or 360 -- it has to adhere to a certain amount of "quality points." Nintendo used to have this board as well but got rid of it at the end of the Gamecub era.

The abolishment of <I>any</I> type of quality control for the Wii is showing. It has a huge amount of shovelware, meaning games shoveled out of the studio for the sole purpose of making a profit. Look at www.metacritic.com and check out how many green games the PS3, 360, and Wii have...the Wii is in dead last by a long shot.

Nintendo's Vice President was quoted <B>directly</B> to saying that a good indicator of how well a console is doing is how many bad games are released and how many people buy them. Nintendo knows it's selling bad games for the Wii, and actually approves of it.

There's a rumor sort of floating around the Internet about how the Wii has a severe lack of good games even though its press and sales should indicate otherwise. This isn't a rumor, it's a fact. Nintendo has zero quality control measures in place for their games and Sony and Microsoft do. Any argument about the Wii being the better console in terms of quality of games is null.

Dr Mario Kart

I fully agree with this statement. People forget or dont know about some of the stuff in the PS2 library. You know Ninjabread Man for the Wii? That got a PS2 release (though not in the states) back in 2005. Where was Sony's QA board then?

Furthermore, there was a TON of shit on the NES/SNES.

The answer is that the 360/PS3 development costs are too high to make shovelware that attractive of an offer. Its also too high to make a lot of other things attractive as well, which is something I'm going to address later.

Did someone say Metacritic?



See also: # of Dreamcast, Gamecube and N64 games at the top of the Gamerankings.com list.

Good games have almost nothing to do with the success of a console, believe it or not.

Baraka_Guru

If you look at overall reviews of past consoles, such as Gamecube, Xbox, etc, you will find that these systems have hundreds of quality games regardless of how much shovelware is released. For me, it will be about affordability of the system and the games. For games, we're talking about an avg. of $50-60 vs. $30-40 [Xbox360/PS3 vs. Wii (approx. avg in Cdn$)]. I'm confident that there will be hundreds of quality games released on the Wii eventually.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lasereth

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the views of a successful console. There is not a doubt in my mind that the Wii is unbelievably successful. What I will argue is <I>why</I> it's successful.

Ever since the Wii launched it has been hyped into oblivion about being the best gaming console ever and is sooo much fun. But for actual gamers, the system is quite ordinary.

What's making the Wii sell like it is has nothing to do with the quality of the games being released. It's the price combined with the casual-gaming attraction. Sure the Wii is successful but I can't just sit back and watch the Wii rake in compliments about being so amazing when it has arguably 4 games worth buying, 2 which have debuted on the Gamecube with arguably better controls.

I have zero problem with Nintendo succeeding. I like all videogame systems and all videogame companies. What I do have a problem with is overrated, sensationalistic, hyped-to-the-moon videogame systems that stemmed from its low price and its competitors (a huge part of Wii's success is due to the PS3 doing so many things wrong, mainly the price).

Dr Mario Kart

Whoever has the largest marketshare, regardless of why, is going to have the largest number of games.

However has the largest number of games, is going to have the largest number of good games in the long run, even if the average number or the ratio of good games is lower.

Thats the Playstation 1/2 strategy at work.

Lasereth

I would be undeniably proud of Nintendo if this actually happens. I want to see the Wii win this generation because of quality games, not because it's $250 with casual-friendly controllers.

CyCo PL

I know that the Wii has only been out a year, and honestly, for the year its been out, it has a much higher number of good games than most consoles release in their first year (mainly because Nintendo blew their load and released a game for pretty much every big N franchise... mario, zelda, metroid). The PS2's first year was abysmal in regards to good games coming out, so maybe I'm a little too hard on the Wii. (did I just say "hard on the Wii"? lolz.)

I'm just disappointed with the complete package. In the original trailers, the japanese guy playing Zelda made it look so awesome, like the sword would mimic the exact motions of the Wii remote. I was really hoping for something like that, but it's more of a "twitch your arm to swing your sword", which actually comes off more annoying to me than innovative. I'm just also afraid that the only worthwhile titles to look forward to will be first party titles. I mean, how many mario games can they release in one year? Look at that listing of gamecube games on Metacritic... how many of those are third party games? I love Nintendo's games, they rarely disappoint me when it comes to making great games... But as long as the Wii keeps getting half-assed PS2/PSP ports for third party titles and the occasional good first party title, I'm going to look at it as a glorified gamecube with a neat albeit overhyped control scheme.

Also, on a more superficial note, I wonder how long Nintendo plans to stretch out the life of the Wii. I own an HDTV, and right now in 2008, the Wii doesn't look that great graphically, I'd say about the equivalent of what I'd expect from consoles in 2002. Now what about the year 2011? How will the Wii look then? I'm sure by then, PC graphics will jump up at least another step, and PS3 and 360 games may even start looking dated. The Wii will still be sporting decade-old graphics capabilities. I'm not saying that graphics make the game, or even have any type of significance in the gameplay, but the Wii will look like the equivalent of what the Playstation 1 looks right now. Not that great.

Dr Mario Kart

Future proofing is something of a fictional concept. It has never worked for consoles, and it really isnt particularly effective with PCs either, given how fast the technology moves.

The market is what really decides console lifespan. The leader in marketshare should always want to continue the current generation as long as possible, whereas the others will want to jump into the next generation sooner.

Looking more dated shouldnt matter because it already does look dated. With the graphical difference already so huge, I find it hard to believe that a bigger difference will suddenly sway the masses.

Nintendo cant maintain lead marketshare without wide 3rd party support. I'm sure they learned the lesson well the prior 2 generations.

Thats why I conclude that if they are able to maintain lead marketshare, you will see good 3rd party games.

Ideally they want to mimic their success with the DS. Yes, Nintendo still is the primary driver for the platform, but they have vast 3rd party support. The PSP blows the DS out of the water from a technical standpoint, and everyone is alright with it.

hulk

Another thing to remember, too, is that with the lower price point that was profitable from the beginning, Nintendo has plenty of room to move. I wouldn't be surprised if a higher-powered Wii was released mid cycle - look at the Expansion Pak for the N64, and the 64DD, for example.

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Leto

I partly agree. I didn't even (not even briefly) consider either xbox 360 or PS3 simply because of the cost.

There are priorities in the queue before gaming (hockey for the kids, swiming for the kids, camps for March Break, summer for the kids, family vacations) that compete for the entertainment dollar before I'm going to drop that kind of coin on a gaminig system. Particularly since we already have Super NES, PS2, 3 gameboys, 2 DS and a PSP in the house. Add to that the 3 computers, I'm not motivated.

The Wii on the other hand was priced right. good enough that a relative was able to justify purchasing one as a family Christmas gift without breaking the bank. Not only that, but as pointed out above, the interactiveness of the gaming even for observation kept a group of children and adults occupied for most of New Year's Eve.

I've since added to the game collection (Metroid Prime - Corruption, super Mario Galaxy and some Rabit killing game) and they seem to be engaging enough. I find that they are dissapointing in that they are more traditional style, while I want more that involves the motion of the controller. I find that Mario Galaxy is a lot like Ratchet and Clank. In fact, so is Metroid.

In the future it would be interesting to develop Tai Chi exercises or even explore the world of sensuality (ok, porn...)

Dr Mario Kart

Wii Fit is SO for you and your family.

CyCo PL

If you're looking for a game that uses a lot of controller motion detection and that the kids will enjoy, check out Wario Ware, my nieces go crazy over that game. Unfortunately though, that's about the extent of what you're going to get out of the Wii's controller. The motion detection is really over-exaggerated by the Wii commercials.

Rekna

So far the game that uses the controller the best has been Rayman Rabbids 2 (excluding Wii sports). It is also a 4 player party game so you should purchase that if that isn't the Rabbit killing game you are referring to.

Leto

sounds good.. Wii Fit and Wario Ware. I'll research them on line.

snowy

One thing you might consider doing is subscribing to a game rental service. I found one online that seems similar to the U.S.'s Gamefly service, but it's Canadian: http://www.gameaccess.ca It looks like they also have used games. Wii games are expensive, but renting lets you figure out which ones you like without suffering from buyer's remorse, plus you can order used games for less money. Kinda nice.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Baraka_Guru

Wow, thanks for the link, snowy. Now all I need is a Wii...

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

CyCo PL

Wii Fit doesn't look fun at all to me. Guess it's just not my thing.

Here's a video that explains pretty much everything Wii Fit has to offer:

Dr Mario Kart

Theres a big new demographic that rates their games completely differently than the traditional core gamer.

Who is making Carnival Games a best seller in the U.S.? Its not you or me. In a traditional rating system, the casual games can be quite poor, but a lot of people enjoy them.

Heres a slightly better Wii Fit impression http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=81819

I've heard fantastic things about the skiing, but this is the part that I found relevant enough to make the recommendation:

Bratwurst

I haven't bought a console since the original playstation. At that point back in 1998 I switched to the PC for gaming and never looked back. As I get older though, I'm less and less of a gamer as time dwindles, my head of the household role grows, my family grows, etc.

But I'm going to get a wii. Even my wife wants to give it a try.

I just can't find one at Best Buy. I'd get it somewhere else, but I have a $250 gift card to best buy. So I'm stuck. I'm sure the shortages will ease up eventually.

__________________
40

Baraka_Guru

We're on the same boat with this one. Except my wife started the whole thing, since she played it first and told me all about it. I tried my brother's and now I want one.

My Best Buy GCs are burning a hole in my pocket.... come oooonnn, Wii!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jewels

I was told that there will be larger quantities available the weekend of 1/26 by the Walmart manager who helped me out.

How I got mine this weekend? I'd been calling Target, Walmart, Circuit City, BestBuy, and a couple of others since 12/27 every day, since they had no idea when they'd be getting more. I happened on a Walmart employee in the store one day who recognized me from my workplace and was able to find out that he'd had a tip that there was a shipment of 3 or 4 coming in Saturday night and would be on the floor at 7 a.m. I set my alarm for my day of rest at 5:30 a.m. and was there at 6:30. To shorten a very long story, I ended up going home with my little one (13 y/o) and got a call not two hours later, from the store manager. I had to meet her in the layaway department, ask for her, pay back there so she could bag it so I wouldn't get jumped. Crazzzzy! I'd thought it was nuts that I saw 'em on eBay for $350 - 400, but she told me that when they came in, they're kept under lock and key until the moment they're sold; they never put them out on the floor! And this store isn't in the Hood, it's surrounded by upscale areas!

I just hope for your sake they don't start inflating prices!?!?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

snowy

I really hope you find one soon!

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Leto

I was standing in the new Best Buy at the north end of the Eaton Centre, chatting to the sales guy about the game selection, when an entire shipment of Wii's came in. There they were, and no customers to buy them. They may still be there.


Thanks for the link Snowy! I'll definitely give it a try.

-- Last night I was trying to play Super Metroid and it was actually a lot of fun. But my wife was complaining of nausea as I was trying to get used to the motion of the controllers.

One of the annoying things about that game is that you can't start more than 3 games. All three of my sons have a game in progress, and I could start a new game, so I jumped on the one that had the least progress (the kid with the most homework!) and played his file without saving.

that's it, except it's the first one, and only cost $19.99.

miseryroses

The wii sucks.I have both a wii and a ps3,i got the wii first and i thought it really was awesome.But after a bit of playing a got tired of the poor control mecanics(except on some rare games),the N64 graphics and the bad sound effects.When i bought my ps3 i couldn't believe that i could've loved a wii lol.Seriously my ps3 was one of the best things i bought in my life.
Sorry for the spelling,i'm french canadian lol

Baraka_Guru

Holy crap! How did I miss this?! I work within walking distance of that place!!

Thanks for the tip, but I read it 6 days too late, I think.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Rekna

I'm tempted to get the first one but what i've read is that the multiplayer isn't as good as the second. Namely many of the minigames are hotseat....

Anyone see that they are porting spore to the Wii? That should be a big hit. Since the wiimote behaves like a mouse I suspect we will see a lot of PC game ports to the Wii. We are likely to get some RTS games that you don't see much on other consoles because of the heavy mouse mechanics.

Bratwurst

I'm still hunting, I make regular rounds to a couple different best buys on my commute to work. Stop at them every couple days.

__________________
40

CyCo PL

lolz... Bought a PS3 a couple weeks ago, haven't touched the Wii since then.

Martian

I'm pretty sure I've played that game before, only it was called Asteroids then. Or was it Defender?

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

It's like Asteroids on steroids.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Bratwurst

Finally found a wii today. I called a best buy, sat on hold for 10+ minutes before someone answered, and they put the last one they had today on hold for me.

__________________
40

jewels

Yay!! Enjoy.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain