Rekna

This Christmas I took my Wii home for the family to enjoy. Every day large groups of people would gather around it and play it. The family loved playing the sports games and those that didn't want to play loved to watch it. For hours on end my entire extended family would sit there and play. Even my 93 year old grandma and 70 year old aunt played it. After I left my uncle (50ish) and my brother (39) both immediately went out and bought one. In addition my 70 year old aunt also wants to go buy one....

This system has an amazing pull to non-traditional gamers that is making it out pace other system sales. It will be interesting to see how this effects the types of games that come out for the Wii. Already many games are loaded with mini-games and some games are nothing but mini-games. For example we bought Raving Rabbids 2 last week and the family couldn't stop laughing while playing that game. Also the game is the best party game I have found so far for the Wii and i'm tempted to go buy the first one because I hear it is just as good.

Right now the games list for the Wii is pretty small and there aren't a lot of big hitters out there. If the mass of new games draws in more developers the 360 and ps3 are both going to have a lot of trouble catching up to the sales of this console.

ratbastid

Have you heard what a big hit Wii Sports is in retirement homes? It's huge--they have Wii Bowling tournaments and things! Amazing.

Both the Rabbids games are AWESOME party games. I played #2 a couple days ago with two people who had never touched the Wii before, one of whom had never played any video games in her life--and she WON. It's really the most accessible gaming platform ever created.

genuinegirly

I love the Wii!
But also I'm noticing this trend towards games ANYONE can play, with other systems.

Take, for example, the XBox 360 game Rock Band

Also, if you remember Dance Dance Revolution...

I can sing, but I'm terrible at video games. I was able to participate and have fun with Rock Band! If you can hold a mic, and follow along with words you can make it work. You don't even have to be on pitch for the beginner level. It's like doing Karaoke!

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Esoteric

The Wii is winning because it's cheap and has games that appeal to even non-gamers. Unfortunately majority of the games for it lack substance and are mostly a compilation of mini games for multiple people to play together.

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Strange Famous

Ive never played it.

The control system just sounds strange to me.

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Lasereth

Completely and utterly true.

If the Wii was $400 or $600 like its competitors at launch it wouldn't have did nearly as well. The control scheme does open it up to casual gamers and that is a major plus. If you're a true gamer it's quite obvious that the Wii is not "winning" per say but it's definitely outselling its competition.

m0rpheus

But if you are a corporation selling the consoles that is "winning". Especially if you look at the sales for previous Nintendo systems.

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Fotzlid

which is exactly the direction more console makers want to go. games in general are becoming easier. i know a lot of people who dont play games because they just dont understand the joys of button mashing.
the Wii games may be simple, but playing Wii bowling with a few people is much more fun than playing Gears of War by myself.

Baraka_Guru

Why the Wii is winning

Baraka_Guru is actually buying his first console since the Sega Genesis...and it's a Wii!!

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Lasereth

Undoubtedly.

Esoteric

What about playing Gears of War with friends? I'd rather play Gears than Wii Bowling with friends.

__________________
From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch
Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck
I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change
Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

Willravel

I believe the NES is winning, technically.

Dr Mario Kart

Given that the N64 and Gamecube both launched at $200 and both have some of the highest ranked games of all time, clearly neither price nor games by itself is the answer.

Its all about the interface, and the market expansion that it helped create. Ideally they'd probably like to follow in the footsteps of the DS as much as possible.

snowy

I bought my first console, period, when I bought my Wii. My mom wants one--we took it home at Thanksgiving and everyone loved it. It is very popular with our friends, too.

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CyCo PL

My main issue with the Wii is that through the eyes of an outsider, it seems like it's capable of doing more than it really can. It is viewed by many people as a revolution in console gaming, but it's technically just an outdated console with a unique controller. Its somewhat deceptive exterior lures people into buying it, and the subsequent buzz over the massive shortages lures even more people in. That, along with the fact that it's about half the price of its competition, is why the Wii is winning.

There are a few great games on the Wii, and since Mario Galaxy came out (by far the best game on the console), I haven't regretted my purchase as much. I'm just disappointed in the fact that most of the games to come out on the Wii are either franchise-based kids games (Surf's Up, Ratatouille, High School Musical), or compilations of mingames that become stale rather quickly (Wii Play, Wario Ware, Raving Rabbids). The only games that have real depth are the first party, big-name nintendo titles, specifically Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Zelda. The Wii is definitely not a gamer's console.

Maybe it's just a case of "the grass is greener" though, since I only own a Wii and don't own a 360 or PS3. I expected more out of the Wii when I chose it over the competitors and purchased it. Looking at the flood of great games coming out on other consoles, and the slow trickle of good games on the Wii, I am disappointed.

Atreides88

I just used a Wii this evening with friends. It was a blast. I'm seriously considering purchasing one, even though it would destroy my GPA.

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Lasereth

You know that the N64 did absolutely abyssmally and was decimated by the PS1 that generation, right? Its sales were terrible and there were 6-month droughts every year between a game even worth renting. The Gamecube suffered the same fate until its price dropped to $99....see a trend?

Dr Mario Kart

You know thats sort of my point, right? Both of the previous Nintendo home consoles launched at $200, lower than their competitors, and like the Dreamcast, has games at the top of the all time rankings and were soundly beaten.

Gamecube and XBOX price drops did NOTHING to help their marketshare. The effect that a price drop has is dependent on your current position. The Playstation price drops further solidified their lead, but the price drops by those that were trailing did not turn around their fortunes, it was a mere temporary boost and then back to baseline.

The only time in history that a company has been able to turn around its momentum after a full year of being soundly beaten would be SNES vs Genesis, but that had more to do with Sega's own self destruction.

In other words, what Sony is calling for now(a comeback), is completely unprecedented and extremely unlikely.

Lasereth

I agree, I just whole-heartedly believe that price is the absolute major contributing factor to whether a videogame system sells or not. I also believe that price drops will cause short-term spikes in sales but won't cause a huge market share difference unless the price goes down to a really low point. The Wii launched at <I>less than half</I> the price of one of its competitors and is still the cheapest console out there, hence the 360 and PS3 price drops not causing a huge difference. When the Gamecube dropped to $99, the PS2 and XBox were still $200. Another console for <I>half</I> the price of its competitors...and then the GC boomed in sales because of it.

Baraka_Guru

Another indicator of company-based "winning" for Nintendo is the fact that they are actually earning a profit for each unit sold. Unlike the loss-leader marketing models of Microsoft and Sony.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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Lasereth

I wouldn't really call this a win for anyone besides Nintendo stakeholders. Gamers get a much less powerful console because of this. The Gamecube wasn't as powerful as the rest and the Wii is laughable compared to the 360 and PS3 technology and feature-wise. People always say Nintendo is the only company that cares about gamers because they made their console so cheap. Couldn't it be argued that Nintendo is the only gaming company that <I>doesn't</I> care about gamers because they keep releasing underpowered, underfeatured consoles so they can reap a profit? Sony and MS seem to care a lot about gamers if they're releasing consoles that they take a loss on so gamers get top of the line graphics and features. /endrant

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, but are PS3 developers using the full capacity of the hardware? Are they using it efficiently? A system's games should be a balance of technology and gameplay. Nintendo is winning many hearts. Sony is causing a lot of grief. Oh, and there's that XBox defect, too.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

orionnebula

But would you play GoW with your parents ?

That is the thing that makes the Wii winning.

But as it was already mentionned the party thread is gaining in the other console. Scene it with the tv show buzzer might be the start of something for XBOX.

Non gamers wants easy to control. One buzzer and four button is the scene it control. Non-gamers are lost when you have to control two sticks, 4 triggers and 4 buttons.

stevie667

Nintendo have devised, through the DS and Wii, the greatest peice of marketing genius since the new testament. In terms of units sold, marketshares and profits, nintendo have won this round of the console wars. The OP has a first hand account of the selling power the wii has.

Sure, the Wii isn't the most powerful console on the market, doesn't have the greatest games (suckness, i know), but it has a market share the size of my house and more and more people joining up every day. The coffers at ninty are swelling with the money they're making, especially after the failures with the N64 and GC. Do you actually need full HD on a game at this time? No, how many people do you know with a full HD tv? I know 3, the best tv i have is merely HD ready, which is fine with my wii. You don't need a dvd player because you can get them for £15, and lets not get started about hd-dvd or bluray. The internet service is suprisingly good for a first attempt

The reason i know the wii is winning, over anything else? Sony ditched their original PS3 controller and put it motion sensors. That my friend is the win, microsoft will do it with their next console, sony with theirs, and ninty will still be far ahead with their next controller.

The problems for the wii is that there arn't that many good games, a hangover from the poor third party development for consoles past. If that changes nintendo will have pulled themselves around in epic proportions.

And, at the end of the day, its all about money, something nintendo is making plenty of. More money for them equals more money to spend on R&D, and more fun for the gamers. What good is it to gamers when the company they use hasn't got enough money to do anything in the first place (sega).

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hulk

One question, Las - what would you define as 'winning' characteristics?

I'd hardly say the Wii is short on features. Raw power definately but as far as general features go it's unbeaten. Nintendo managed to turn a profit with the Gamecube as well, and that was -hardly- underpowered in it's day. Sony and Microsoft release consoles at a loss so they retain market share, plain and simple. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft aren't charities, they exist to make money and to provide consumers with entertainment.

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Dr Mario Kart

This is just plain wrong.

PS2:
CPU - 294 MHz (299 MHz on newer versions)
GPU - 147 MHz

GC:
CPU - 486 MHz PowerPC
GPU - 162 MHz

XBOX:
CPU - 733 MHz
GPU - 233 MHz

The Gamecube was in some cases almost able to keep up with the xbox on the few occasions that it had really been pushed.

That aside, history indicates that the most powerful console never wins the generation.

Rekna

Even though the Wii doesn't have a tun of great games yet it soon will. Developers are going to see a large demographic for targeting their games. Pure numbers is going to drive the games to be developed for the Wii. In addition, the entire gaming industry is going to win because of the Wii as many people who never touched games in the past are now casual gamers that can be target and possibly converted to be hard core gamers.

Lasereth

Lots of good games.

If it's just plain wrong, how come the Gamecube was "almost able" to keep up with the XBox on "a few occasions?"

They couldn't port games straight to the GC from PS2 and Xbox because the hardware couldn't keep up.

Dr Mario Kart

Thats ridiculous. The PS2 was absolutely the weakest out of the 3. Cold hard fact. I cant even believe you're trying to argue it. Look at the raw system spec numbers! Do you think they are inaccurate or what?

Why cant you port games straight from one platform to another?

Because thats not how ports work. Games are built around a particular platform. Generally, any platform its ported to afterwards will suffer. Playstation 2 was the primary platform for most multiplatform games because of its marketshare status.

Perhaps you're familiar with the differences between Resident Evil 4 for Gamecube and for Playstation 2. Its a miracle that Capcom even could pull it off.

Screenshot comparison:
http://www.the-horror.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256

Video
http://videos.emule.com/play/residen...n-(5qz0LbKpZtI

Lasereth

I'll agree with RE4.

But a quick google search yields a dozen pages saying the PS2 had better graphics than the GC. Up for debate I suppose.

Either way, the GC didn't have a DVD/CD player and extremely limited online support. My point is what you get in the console. The Wii, just like the GC offered limited functions, hence its lower price.

Redjake

I'm just jumping in to say the Wii is winning because it is dirt cheap.

If the PS3 or 360 was $250, it would be winning as well. End of story.

It's extremely innovative, but that price is the main factor. Trust me, I work with soccer moms. I KNOW THINGS

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Shigun

Here's a question for those of you that own a Wii. How long have you owned it and do you still use it? I've owned mine for full year now and when I first got it I played it quite a bit, but within the last six months it was turned on twice, maybe three times, and that's it. It's uniqueness wore off very quickly and now it just seems like a novelty item to me.

Wii Sports is good for turning on spur of the moment and gaming with the family (those two or three times that I said I turned it on in the past six months was when family came to visit), but beyond that the game library is utter trash. Yes, I know it has a couple great games, but comparing those couple great games to the amount of great games on the PS3 or 360, it just doesn't stack up.

I have four friends with a Wii that all got it within two months of when I got mine and they all experienced the same. They used it a helluva lot when they first got it, but now it just collects dust due to shatty, gimmicky games.

To help know the type of gamer this is coming from: In terms of a casual gamer, I would say we are not - all of us game quit a bit. I own a PS3, one of the four friends I mentioned above owns a PS3 also and another a 360. All three of us just shake our heads when we look at the Wii's library of games. I agree with everyone above that said price was #1 factor it is selling well. It certainly isn't the capabilities of the system that are making it sell (both 360 and PS3 have so much more to them, most notably online play - which is something important to myself and all of my friends when looking at games).

Don't get me wrong, I do recommend to all that ask to buy a Wii for those times when family or friends get together, but I tell them to stop beyond that point and not bother buying any games.

Hmm... I wonder if my little rant there added anything to the thread....

blahblah454

Look at modern ps2 games. Like the God of War and Tekken 5. Those games look far better than any games I have ever seen on either the gamecube or the xbox.

And the Wii appeals to a WAY larger demographic than any of the other systems, I think that alone with always insure that it will get more sales. Its like comparing ticket sales between a PG movie and an R movie. only so many people can go to the R movie

Fotzlid

I'd play GoW with my friends too if any of them were gamers. I could probably play against their kids when they are old enough to play Mature rated games.

CyCo PL

The GC had more powerful specs than the PS2, but not as powerful as the Xbox. The reason games suffered on the Gamecube was not because of the lack of hardware capability, it was because the PS2 was the leader of the pack, and developers were developing games for PS2 and porting them over to Gamecube. Therefore, the Gamecube suffered from inferior graphics and performance on most ports, regardless of its specifications. The exact same problem is happening with the PS3 right now. Developers are making games for the leader of the hd-capable pack (Xbox 360) and porting them over to the PS3, and the PS3 is suffering despite its superior specifications. This is why many of the launch titles on PS3 that were also on Xbox 360 were inferior looking than their Xbox 360 counterparts.


Back on topic, though. I am extremely frustrated with the Wii. Nintendo has had a history of being a step behind the competition--The N64 was cartridge-based while all of the competitors were CD-based. The Gamecube was CD-based, but used a special format that only allowed compatibility with gamecube games, and didn't allow DVD-playback or any other "perks" associated with running DVD format. The Gamecube also epically failed in executing any kind of online support, even though there was a network adapter for the Gamecube. Nintendo claimed that "people don't want to play games online," which is absolutely ridiculous.

Now, keeping up with tradition, the Wii is technically a step behind the competition. Unlike Nintendo's past console ventures however, the Wii is a huge success. However, the exact same problems that plagued the Gamecube are afflicting the Wii. Like the gamecube, the only games really worth checking out are the first-party big name franchises (mario, zelda, metroid), and the occasional big name third party franchises (resident evil). Also, the Wii has online capabilities, but is very rarely used for actual Wii games. Sure, you can download virtual console games, and there are a few channels like the "Look at Mii" channel that lets you create and vote on Mii contests, and the "Everybody Votes" channel where you... vote on things. This isn't exciting to me, though. Also, despite the fact that the Wii uses a DVD drive for its games, DVD movie playback is not allowed. WHY?


I think that many, if not most, of the people that are purchasing Wiis are not purchasing it with the idea of a gaming platform in mind. They are purchasing it as if it were a toy, and ignoring most of the titles on the console except for the bundled in Wii Sports. There have been approximately 15 million Wiis sold worldwide, but the total sales for Super Mario Galaxy, easily the best game on the console, hasn't even broken 2 million sales. The Xbox 360 has sold approximately 17 million consoles now, and Halo 3 broke 3 million sales within the first couple weeks of release. It's now up to about 8 million.

I think the naiveté of most of the people that currently own Wiis is going to cause Nintendo to stay the course that they've been on for a while--one step behind technologically, one step behind in availability of good games, and one step forward in "innovative" controller design (although, Time Crisis 4 on PS3 proves that pretty much all of the Wiimote's main features can easily be ported to other consoles if you add a sensor bar). The Wii remote is truly an innovation in home console gaming, but it is not a big enough step to cover up the obsolescence of everything else regarding the Wii.

Dr Mario Kart

Is there something that DOESNT look like a failure when compared to Halo 3?

Mario Galaxy is doing fine. I expect it to outsell Halo 3 in the long term, as a result of marketshare. It sold 1.12 Million in the U.S. in November, with expectations as high as another million for December, once those numbers come in (3rd week of January I think). For the week of 12/24-12/31, it sold 68,000 in Japan, bringing the total to 748,000.

Thats almost 3 Million without Europe. The 360 has its target demographic down. The Wii base is much more broad.

Regarding online play, the reason Nintendo isnt fully on board is simply money. I dont buy their stance on family friendliness. Maybe if one of the proponents of online play could actually make a dollar, Nintendo might give it a second thought. It requires a lot of changes in the design of the hardware, if you are going to be able to do some of the things that make a robust online network profitable (media playback/distribution for example).

I think they've made the right decisions regarding the console. If online means that much to you, you have 2 alternatives. People are voting with their dollars.

Also, that 8 million number is shipped, or sold to retailers, not sell through to consumers. It came from the same recent statement where they have 17.7 M hardware units sold to retailers.

360 shipments by quarter
This is why conservatism pays off:

Profit in the game industry, 1998 to present

Microsoft – Entertainment and Devices Division (Home and Entertainment) through 1st Q FY 2008 ended September 30 2007
Sony – Game division through 2nd Q FY 2007 ended September 30 2007
Nintendo – Overall through 2nd Q FY 2008 ended September 30 2007. Average exchange rate: 1 US $ = 119.34 yen

* -- it's fiscal year for both Microsoft and Nintendo
** -- it's FY+1 for Sony for comparison reasons

hulk

And remember, the 360 has a year's head start on the Wii. Look at how many good/great Wii games (half a dozen) there are to good/great PS3 games (Resistance is a maybe). Nobody can argue the Wii has the strongest software library at the moment, because that's hands-down the 360, but it's still relatively early days.

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

CyCo PL

Yeah, except it didn't sell 1.12 million in the U.S. in November. That was the total U.S. sales on December 23. Perhaps it sold another million between then and now, but I doubt it, since most of those purchases were probably for Christmas. That, combined with the 748,000 in japan, equals almost 2 Million, as I originally stated.

But yeah, my point was not that the Xbox 360 is more successful than the Wii, the system sales really have nothing to do with what I'm saying, except for showing how many people own the consoles relative to how many copies of the games were sold. I would understand if Super Mario Galaxy only sold 2 million copies if the Wii had sold as many consoles as the PS3, but the Wii is basically tied up with the 360 in console sales, despite the year difference in release date. There is no argument that the Wii is doing better than all of the other consoles in system sales. But what about games? It seems like many of the Wii owners are purchasing the console just to have a "Wii Sports" machine, rather than a real gaming platform. I wonder if some people even know that you can purchase other games for the Wii.

What frustrates me most is that, the Wii is not that incredibly unique. The Wii remote, although really neat for the first few hours of gameplay, eventually just comes off as a glorified light gun. "Shake the remote to swing your sword", or "shake the remote to do a spin attack", or "shake the remote to throw a grenade" is not real immersion, and it actually gets kind of annoying after playing for more than an hour or so. There are a few games that use the Wii remote in unique ways, but the games themselves are usually really flat, one dimensional mini games that lose their appeal after playing them just a few times. Of course, this is all subjective, but I'll bet many of the people that own Wiis feel the same way as me, or will eventually when the novelty wears off.

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles here, but I think the Wii's success owes a lot to peoples' bubbles NOT being bursted until it's too late, and they've dumped $250 on a glorified Gamecube. And Nintendo's success is just going to encourage them to continue what they're doing-- releasing substandard hardware, with two or three great first party games a year, and a veritable bevy of disgustingly terrible third party abominations.

Dr Mario Kart

Except Galaxy DID sell 1.12 Million for the NOVEMBER NPD, which covered Nov 4 to Dec 1. Mario Galaxy came out 11/12, and was only in the reporting period for 3 of the 4 weeks.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184008...result;title;2
http://kotaku.com/gaming/npd/novembe...les-333823.php
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/13/no...nes-a-winner/4
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/...er-npd-ni.html
http://www.gamegrep.com/industry_new...eads_software/

Do you concede that you've made a mistake? or do we have to bring an arbiter in to interpret the meaning of November

I'll address the software issue in another post tomorrow, since it'll take a while to compile the data. In short, the software issue is yet another non-issue.

CyCo PL

Yeah, I was actually looking at other sources before I read your post, and I was wrong about the sales in November. However, my stance hasn't changed, because give or take a million sales doesn't really change the fact that SMG has sold a fraction of what it should have sold relative to the console sales. This really should have been the Wii's flagship title.


Edit: And I'm not sure what you mean about the "software issue"... do you mean to tell me that there are good third party games on the Wii? Because I am aware that there are a few (Resident Evil, Zack and Wiki, Trauma Center), but given that the console has been out a year, that's not really that great.