elaphe

Not sure if this thread belongs here or not (mods, please move if you have to) but I'm questioning whether or not the fantasy senarios depicted in bideo games can influence young players.

Just recently here in Toronto (Jan 25), a cab driver was killed instantly when his cab was tee-boned by steet racers.

" The cab was a twisted wreck, tangled around a pole. Smoke rose into the night air as rescue crews looked on helplessly. There was, in the end, nothing left to save.

There was a terrible irony at the scene of a deadly accident near Mt. Pleasant and St. Clair Ave. Tuesday night – it looked like a graphic scene from a video game.

And police fear that may have been the inspiration for the crash that killed a 46-year-old Toronto cab driver.

It happened around 10:30pm when two 18-year-olds were allegedly driving their parents’ Mercedes Benz cars at a high rate of speed up Mt. Pleasant.

As taxi driver Tahir Khan tried to make a left hand turn, one of the luxury automobiles appeared from out of nowhere, smashing directly into him.

“When he made that turn, two motor vehicles at a very high rate of speed were northbound,” relates Det. Paul Lobsinger. “He crossed directly into the path of those vehicles and one of these vehicles struck him.”

He died at the scene.

The car that hit the cab sat nearby badly damaged, but at first there was no sign of the other vehicle. The driver left the scene only to return minutes later. By then, police were waiting.

Investigators quickly determined the cause of the crash – excessive speed, likely because the two expensive cars were racing against each other.

And inside of one of them, an apparent motive – the video game Need For Speed, which allows users to race through a city avoiding obstacles and police.

Speeds in the game reach 300 kilometres an hour. Cops theorize the accused were trying to turn the fantasy into reality, with tragic results.

On Wednesday night, friends of the deceased made a difficult call back to his homeland to inform his family of the bad news.

“My friend just called Pakistan and notified the family and are in process of making arrangements to ship the body to Pakistan,” said Rashid Quazi

Authorities contend street racing is becoming all too common a problem in the G.T.A. and they vow to clamp down on it in any way possible.

To prove it, they’ve laid the heaviest charges they could against the drivers.

Alexander Ryazanov and Wang−Piao Dumani Ross have both been accused of criminal negligence causing death. Ross also faces additional charges for leaving the scene of the crash.

Their families were at College Park courts on Wednesday morning, when both made their first appearance before a judge. They remain in custody pending bail hearings.

If convicted, the maximum penalty could be life in prison. "

January 25, 2006 Pulse24.com

I'm not sure how to take this spin on this senseless tragedy. Need For Speed killed the cabbie??? What about the two a**hats behind the wheel? Does blaming the play of a video game give these two stupid teens an out for their criminal behaviour? Doesn't this excuse belittle the loss of a poor working stiff trying to earn a living?

elaphe

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hulk

Heh, bias in the media. The detective involved said specifically the game was not to blame.

The tools involved are at fault. If anyone wants to blame games, they might as well blame the weather. Or the fact it was Thursday. Perhaps their T-shirts were the same colour, it must have been a gang thing. Maybe their parents didn't love them?

Actually, no. I'm placing my bet on the fact that they're a pair of fuckwads out looking for kicks. The irony is if they were at home playing the game, they wouldn't have had the accident.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Scorps

I saw that whenI got home from work the other day....Its not the video game its them being 18, haing no brains and there parents having no brains also. Who would ever give your18 year old son the keys to a Benz?

Redjake

They might have enjoyed Need for Speed, but that doesn't change what they did. They knew they were going that fast and knew they could crash. They just weren't thinking it could happen to THEM. And now they are fucked.

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stevie667

Trying to replicate a game?

Is that what we're calling being prats today?

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ObieX

I know that every time i play Mario Kart i want to go driving around throwing turtles at other vehicles.

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CityOfAngels

I'm just waiting for George Bush to blame his actions on excessive Command and Conquer action.
"I was in a haze the entire time I was president. I had just gotten done playing C&C before 9-11, and then I woke up in this impeachment trial. C'mon guys; I'm from Texas! Cut me a break and I'll make you a dignitary of Iraq."

So I guess all those people who almost hit me on a daily basis have been playing too much GTA, NFS, or whatever the fark you wanna blame it on, huh?

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Xazy

Ok lets think about this for a minute, about how fucked up our country is.

I play shooting games, and I ahve played Grand theft auto, and zip, no desire to just go out and kill someone. I know I obviously must not be getting far in the game, or doing something wrong if those urges just do not appear in me.

We yell at rockstar games for Grand theft auto, and the senate has hearings over it, and change the rating systems are changed.

BUT they then go and pass a law that we cannot sue gun companies for deaths. after all they never market how cool it is for a gun. They do not have to be responsible in who gets the guns.

Why is that. Simple the NRA has a better lobby then the gaming industry.

The new saying from the gunning compnay should be, guns don't kill people, games kill people.

CityOfAngels

In all of my life of playing countless videogames, the only games that ever made me want to go out and replicate them are the NBA 2K series. I'd play a few games with my buddies, and then we'd be all pumped up to play ball at the park later on. But I would've gone to play basketball no matter if I had played the game or not; it just got me pumped up and ready to play.

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Bill O'Rights

People have been racing cars, at breakneck speeds, through city streets, Loooong before video games were ever even thought about. The influence of the game might not have helped....but to place the blame, of the immature actions of a couple of dumbasses, entirely on a video game is completely ludicrous.
And I am the last person that would ever defend video games. A fact to which some here can attest.

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Carno

Of course video games promote violence. Why, just after I finished playing Battlefield 2 last night, I went out and shot 37 chinese troops.

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Siege

Fuck yeah, every time I get into a fight, I yell "hadoken" and then stand puzzled as to why a blue ball didn't come out of my hand.

Give me a break. What if barbie's horse adventure was on his seat? Fuck no! Barbie = excessive driving speed.

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Derwood

Yes, everyone who has every played a video game is now doing hard time in the slammer. Hadn't you heard?

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Scorps

ROFL.....priceless

CityOfAngels

I guess we're all just posers then.

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t3m3st

I've been following and blogging this case. Street racing in Toronto is nothing new. Sometimes there are accidents. Appauling, yes. A case of rich spoiled jackshits that don't know right from wrong.

I have a lot of friends that go racing in Woodbridge on the weekends. They dress their cars with the stupid decals and skirts and spoilers and what not. They import racing magazines from Europe. They watch racing movies and TV shows. And guess what! They play racing video games! It's part of their culture. But they were all interested in racing first, and that's what brought them to the Playstation in high school (Hot Pursuit, GT2, etc.)

Were there any CD's in the car? Maybe it was the music they were listening too!

Though I must admit, I'm dying to emulate a certain video game I just finally got. But if I have trouble hitting the blue fret with my pinky, how am I going to manage chords on a real guitar?

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Scorps

I might not be in Jail but I have street raced before, but I know where the cops hide and well I do it on back streets with friends, and well I don't have a benz but my 350c.i. 350+RWHP Malibu does go fast.

Zeraph

It's aggressive kids that are attracted to video games, not video games creating aggressive kids.

Plaid13

you just cant even pretend to blame stuff like that on video games. if you could travel back in time or... buy a really old newspaper or two you would realize that ever since cars were first made some kid has gotten into one and tried to see how fast it will go. most likely video games like this reduce the amount of accedents because it gives kids something else to do other then going out risking there lives for a cheap thrill. before there was any real media to blame stuff on kids were already doing stupid stuff and getting people killed. go back in time 100-150 years and you will see 14 year olds with guns and weak morals looking for something to do for a cheap thrill.

The truth behind all of this crap is one simple thing. when a kid does something stupid that gets someone killed you cant blame video games or music or movies or the one legged stripper down the street its the parents fault for raising a stupid kid. If mom and dad would of taught them some sort of common sence or maybe shown some common sence for themself and not givin the moron the keys to the car or the car itself then people wouldnt get killed for stupid stuff like this. Sure accedents happen and they always will but a crash at 45mph because someone had a tire blow out or brakes go out isnt the same as some kid slamming into a bussload of nuns at 95mph.

I really dont understand how anyone can honestly believe video games are to blame for anything other then fat lazy kids that dont get out of the house and see the sunlight.

if a video game is to blame for a car crash from racing... what about match box cars? oh man i lost track of the countless match box car crashes i had when i was little. oh man my tonka truck... i played with that thing every day when i was little but.. you dont see me taking my truck off road smashing into everything i can just because i can.

Its all about bad parents. if any parent tries to blame any sort of media for something stupid a kid did... they are bad parents that need to join the real world and realize whats happening around them. if a kid is influanced by a video game its because noone put the sence in his head to know better.

robbdn

Why does everything have to be someone's fault to begin with? This whole notion of cause and effect should just be abandoned completely... life would be a lot simpler.

Anyhow.... I have done some research on this, and it would seem that there are absolutely no studies or evidence that suggests videogames cause criminal behavior. There is lots of evidence that shows that young children are more likely to behave aggressively after playing videogames (fighting with siblings, throwing tantrums, etc), but again, no evidence to suggest that young children are more likely to behave violently (hitting siblings). With regards to teenagers and young adults, there's no evidence at all that suggests it has any more effect on the consumers of media than, say, Martha Stewart. Okay, bad example, I admit that Martha Stewart does drive me into a murderous rage. My point is, however, people tend to make an illogical association with regards to aggressive behavior and violent/criminal behavior regarding this type of research, when there is in fact no indication that they are related.

So, how does that apply to street racing? Well, I don't know... I'm sure the kids didn't intend to kill anybody, they're behavior wasn't exactly violent, can videogames cause this sort of thing? Can the videogames cause themselves to be played? Do the kids cause the videogames to be played? Does society cause videogames to be played? Well... like I said... so much for cause and effect. We'll never know exactly what caused this tragic accident, but people always feel the need to find order in the world to try and maintain the illusion of control, and so people will assign cause to something that is inherently incapable of cause in the first place.

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hulk

Back up a step. Don't you think gamers blaming parents is just the same, and equally hypocritical, as parents blaming games? As far as I can see, the fault lies solely with the tools involved.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

paulskinback

I know after playing Monkey Ball I get the urge to steal bananas...

Is there a correlation?

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ZeRoGRaViTY

Roflmfao siege...Omg. Except for me I have a grapple come out of my arm and pierce the neck of my enemy and I yell "Get over here" Trust me, the feds run when they see me hold my arm straight out at a 180.

cheeterbo

video games are a convenient patsy for explanations of violence & crime and.

if a person is stupid enough to drag race in public, that person is simply stupid and was not made more stupid by a video game.

it is survival of the fittest. if a person is going to be influenced by a video game, then that person is weak and therefore would be influenced by anything and eventually, would get killed because of their lack of fortitude.

t3m3st

That's something to ponder...

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ZeRoGRaViTY

How is that something to ponder or even cross one's mind as a rational explanation of hypocracy. Let alone equal hypocracy. obviously two different people blaming eachother for the same problem is hypocritical, but the parents are still 100 percent responsible for their children. The fault lies solely with the parents and the TOOLS they choose to use for raising their children. Parents have the ability to explain different games to children and what something may mean, same as in a PG or above movie. Parental Guidence suggested. Parents also have the ability to not let their child play a game or watch a movie if they think that it will promote violence within their children. A game or gamer doesn't have that ability nor responsibility to do so. So for that reason alone I believe the hypocracy and rational reason gamers have is justified in saying parents are responsible. Justified hypocracy.

Coppertop

Don't let yourself believe that all gamers are children. That is patently far from the truth. Both of the racers in the article above are 18, legally adults. They alone are responsible for their actions.

MikeSty

Anyone who claims video games were inspiration/cause for crime should not only serve the maximum sentence, they should serve double for being a douchebag and putting us through misery. It wasn't long ago that my mom gave me a hard time over pixels shooting pixles.

Plaid13

The fact is the kid is on the planet because of the parents if those parents fail to teach the kid whats right and whats wrong and they leave the choice up to the kid then the kid will tend to accept what he has seen in the media as normal and right. all comes back to the parents failed at being a good parent. If they didnt fail at it it would mean the kid knew better already and wasnt out doing stupid stuff that could get people killed. if the kid isnt smart enough to understand that racing on the street is a bad idea even though it was ok in the video game... maybe the parents shouldnt of allowed that kid to have the game in the first place.

longbough

A friend of mine was a teenager in the early 70s. They raced real muscle cars (409s, GTOs etc.) around the city at night. He told me how he totaled his car and wrapped it around a tree. I don't think they had many racing video games in the 70s. In fact streetracing was around as early as the 50s. So how do you explain that?

Don't blame the video game.
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And don't mix up CAUSE with EFFECT:

It seems just as likely (if not more likely) that an 18 year old reckless driver likes racing video games because he likes racing - not the other way around.

Here's an analogy. I have a pet Border Collie. In my house there's a book on Border Collies. Now, did that book MAKE me get a pet? Hell no! I always liked that breed of dog. I got the book BECAUSE I like Border Collies ... not the other way around.

If you're old enough you'll remember a time in the news when Dungeons and Dragons was being shown in the news media to turn our children into cultists ... I believe there was one boy who killed a cat with some friends -and he had a copy of D&D in his house. What conclusions are you going to draw from that? The kid had mental problems for sure ... but D&D is not the cause. It sounds silly nowadays but people were serious about it back then.

Around the same time the popular topic in the news was how coin-op video games were causing "brain damage." The news showed clips of kids playing video games and described the look on their faces as "hypnosis" or "zombielike" - I'm dead serious - this was national news! The look on their faces was called, "concentration." That's all.

Moyaboy

I really can't see how video games can promote violence. There was talk that the kids responsible for the columbine shootings were addicted to DOOM. But let us not forget that they also liked to bowl. Should we then also blame the PBA for teaching kids how to kill people? They are not even related. If a child has the audacity to try something on a video game and the parents don't do something about it for whatever reason, (work, other children, ect.....) then the parents should watch what they buy. Also I think that it is our culture that is also to blame. When we take the stance - LET US NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS INSTEAD BLAME THEM ON OTHERS AND SHRIEK OUR DUTIES, bad things are bound to happen.

It is in my opinon that humans are in charge of their own actions, not a computer in charge of our destiny.....

I have never taken any anger out on anyone, and I play games all the time.

hulk

Where was it said the parents had anything to do with this case? Where has it been documented that parents sat idly by while their kids played all the games they wanted, then went out on a killing spree? Children make their own choices, and to decree that every choice they make is based on what their parents think is utterly wrong in every sense. There's the media, school, the internet, their friends, books - these and everything else in the world influence choices people make. Parents are an influence, they are not the influence.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Zyr

Damnit, Zeraph stole my post!

Video games do not make people violent, they just promote the violence in a naturally violent person. Those racing kids would have done something stupid like that anyway, it just so happened that they played NFS that day. It the people, not the games.

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Jinn

Quoted for truth -- thanks Bill.

Additionally, I just did a design for my Video Game Design class and we had to analyze the demographics; the average gamer's age is 34. Why is it that all of these "game-fueled" rages are happening to 18- people? Could it be that they're immature assholes and not because they play video games?

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