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Here is an old thread for your enjoyment...
Quote:
Women told, 'Work
in brothel, or else'
German law forces out-of-work females
to take sex jobs or lose unemployment
Posted: January 30, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
A provision in the German welfare system is forcing out-of-work women to chose between taking jobs in the sex industry or losing their unemployment benefits.
Once one of the most generous systems in Europe, Germany's unemployment program has been reformed to require those out of work to take jobs for which they are qualified, or lose benefits. In the case of women, females below the age of 55 who have been out of work for a year or more must take any available job offered.
The full legalization of prostitution two years ago – with brothel owners now paying taxes and employee health insurance – has created an awkward situation at German job centers where employers can access the official government database of those seeking work, reports the London Telegraph.
One 25-year-old waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had indicated a willingness to work in a bar at night and had past experience working in a cafe. A potential employer, finding her profile promising, contacted the job center about hiring her. Only after the young woman called to inquire about the job did she learn the employer was a brothel. When she refused the position, she was threatened with cuts to her unemployment benefits.
Centers that do not penalize job seekers who refuse offered positions are subject to lawsuits by the employers.
"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," says Merchthild Garweg, a Hamburg lawyer. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."
Garweg notes that women who have past experience as telemarketers or call service workers have been offered positions with telephone-sex services. New laws permit sex-oriented employers to advertise in the job centers and provide for the suing of job centers that refuse to accept their ads.
When the German government crafted the recent welfare reforms, brothels were initially considered for exclusion, but they were believed too difficult to distinguish from bars. Their inquiries for potential workers are treated no differently than those from grocery stores or schools.
"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job center when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" asked one central Berlin brothel owner who has been using the local database to find prospective workers.
The German experience closely follows that of the Netherlands, according to the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. Following the 2000 legalization of prostitution by the Dutch and the registration of prostitutes, brothels began using official job centers to find new employees.
Garwig believes pressure on job centers to meet employment targets is only going to make the current situation worse.
"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution," she says.
"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centers to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
Last year, the German federal government announced that it would be fining employers that failed to hire trainees – a measure to be applied to brothels as well as other employers. Brothels failing to hire one apprentice for every 15 employees will be fined for failing to promote the sex industry.
Germany legalized prostitution in 2002 in the belief it would slow down the trafficking in women and reduce the role of organized crime in the profession. Instead, government is expanding the sex industry by guaranteeing a steady stream of new recruits, some willing and some not.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42615
Now that is a weird combination of laws.
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02-02-2005, 01:00 AM #2
MageB420666
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: The 13th level of Hell... and descending That is government supported rape. I mean "WHAT THE FUCK?"
Go into the sex industry or lose unemployment? I see a lot of women emmigrating from Germany in the next few years, because that is just fucked up. Either that or they're going to have to change that law.
Prostitution may not be wrong, but forcing women into it is.
Although after reading it a little more closely, I'm wondering why this is only becoming a problem now, if it's been in effect for two years?
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02-02-2005, 03:04 AM #3
bad jane
Insane
Join Date: Nov 2004 ouch. i agree, i have no problems with prostitution if the woman (or man) chooses to be involved with it. however, forcing someone is a totally different thing. while i have no objections to legalized prostitution, i respect that others do (for whatever reasons).
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02-02-2005, 04:10 AM #4
ObieX
Pickles
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ) They need to be out of work for a year or more before they need to take any job offered. If they've been out of work for a year or more chances are good that they haven't been looking at all, and are just sucking up the free money. This article could just as easily read "women told, "work at burger king, or else". If they don't want to work in the sex industry they could try to find another job, or just not take money from the government. No one is forcing them to take the money from the government.
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02-02-2005, 08:38 AM #5
RogueHunter65
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Location: Boston, MA The brothels and businesses in the sex industry are really expoliting this loophoop in more ways than one. Job Centers that refuse to help the brothels recruit are aslo being sued for discrimination and stuff. It is really creating a big mess in Germany. I would imagine that the government will admend the laws before this gets too out of hand.
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02-02-2005, 08:39 AM #6
*Nikki*
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Location: Charleston, SC Being that this is happening in Germany, it does not surprise me. Prostitution is already a large source of income there.
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02-02-2005, 08:45 AM #7
Squishor
Frontal Lobe
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: California I had the impression the authorities are looking at ways to fix this, not that they support the idea that women should be forced into the sex industry. I'm sure that would be considered an outrage over there just as it is here. They just need to exclude that type of work from the requirement, that's all.
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02-02-2005, 09:02 AM #8
braisler
Insane
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lexington, KY Quote:
Brothels failing to hire one apprentice for every 15 employees will be fined for failing to promote the sex industry.
Tries to imagine an apprentice in a brothel... This would be funny if it wasn't so horrid. Bravo to Germany for having the guts to legalize prostitution. But treating it like any other government program and forcing women to consider work in the so-called "sex industry", that is wrong.
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02-02-2005, 09:08 AM #9
lurkette
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Location: centered Wow, talk about the law of unintended consequences...
It does sound like the government wanted to avoid this in the first place (wanting to exempt brothels from the rule), and are now having to figure out a way to remedy this. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.
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02-02-2005, 09:22 AM #10
Pacifier
undead
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Duisburg, Germany The german "Arbeitsamt" (job center) does not offer jobs as prostitutes. Leagally it coud do so, but AFAIK the centers agreed not to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Being that this is happening in Germany, it does not surprise me. Prostitution is already a large source of income there.
What? please define "large source of income"
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02-02-2005, 10:36 AM #11
ironman
Smithers, release the hounds
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Guatemala, Guatemala Note to self: Don't raise your daughter in Germany.
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02-02-2005, 01:07 PM #12
pocon1
Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2003 So would an out-of-work married woman have to take a job in the industry? Also, the age limit of 55 is pretty high, to me at least. I favor legalized prostitution, but I don't see forcing people into a potentially high-risk job.
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02-02-2005, 03:25 PM #13
Dostoevsky
Psycho
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Macon, GA There is no way any women are actually going to get forced into prostitution by the government if they aren't willing to do that kind of 'work,' it may help rid the German unemployment payrolls of a few leeches though. I bet lots of women will take other undersirable jobs now that they are being threatened with losing benefits or selling their bodies. Makes flipping burgers awfully enticing...
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02-02-2005, 03:36 PM #14
Blaspheme
Tilted
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oregon, USA While I agree that it sounds like the woman in question was being solicited as a prostitute, it doesn't actually say that anywhere. I think it would be pretty amusing if after all the fuss and worldwide news stories we find out that they wanted to hire her as a receptionist, or housekeeper, or bartender, etc.
Would that circumstance change your opinion? We all seem to more or less agree that it would be unconscionable to force some woman to become a prostitute. Suppose though, that she was not performing sexual functions. If her only objection was on the grounds that she was morally opposed to prostitution, would that justify her remaining on the unemployment roster?
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02-02-2005, 03:47 PM #15
Lockjaw
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Join Date: Sep 2004 Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaspheme
While I agree that it sounds like the woman in question was being solicited as a prostitute, it doesn't actually say that anywhere. I think it would be pretty amusing if after all the fuss and worldwide news stories we find out that they wanted to hire her as a receptionist, or housekeeper, or bartender, etc.
Would that circumstance change your opinion? We all seem to more or less agree that it would be unconscionable to force some woman to become a prostitute. Suppose though, that she was not performing sexual functions. If her only objection was on the grounds that she was morally opposed to prostitution, would that justify her remaining on the unemployment roster?
Wow...talk about becareful of what you wish for. Why don't they just cut them off after a year of unemployment? No forcing anybody into doing anything they don't want to do and you get rid of your leeches every year.
I don't know all the details but yeah I suppose if she is morally against it she should just take the hit without the unemployement. If you are willing to leech off the government you have to play by their rules. Period.
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02-02-2005, 03:49 PM #16
Lockjaw
Junkie
Join Date: Sep 2004 Ooohhh just thought of something else. What if all available jobs were in the military or something. Let's say you put in your profile you wouldn't be adverse to working outside and on assignment for several months at a time. Could the government "draft" you in that manner?
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02-02-2005, 05:03 PM #17
*Nikki*
Circle of Life
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Location: Charleston, SC Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifier
What? please define "large source of income"
Well last time I was in Germany there was a ton of prostitutes. We could not walk a block without being approached by half a dozen. Seems to me this qualifies as a large source of income for these women. As we were not takers of their goods, I saw many men who were.
Furthermore, they also get paid for stripping and flashing on the street as well.
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02-03-2005, 10:31 AM #18
Pacifier
undead
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Duisburg, Germany Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Well last time I was in Germany there was a ton of prostitutes. We could not walk a block without being approached by half a dozen.
Let me guess:
Hamburg Reeperbahn?
or Herbertstraße?
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Furthermore, they also get paid for stripping and flashing on the street as well.
Obviously, I live in the wrong part of Germany.
Let me repeat, there is currently no german woman that has been forced by the goverment to work as prostitute. The article above is a gross exaggeration
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02-03-2005, 12:03 PM #19
astrahl
Insane
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 9/12/05 - Front Row, Irving Plaza, NYC, drooling I'm calling shananigans.
No way a government would pimp its women = rape. This sounds a little off somehow. No?
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02-03-2005, 12:10 PM #20
tspikes51
Fuckin' A
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lex Vegas Definitely rape. I see a clause being made somewhere pertaining to this, otherwise Germany is going to start slipping into an anti-humanitarian reputation.
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02-03-2005, 12:34 PM #21
Lockjaw
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Join Date: Sep 2004 She still has a choice albiet not a pleasant one so IMO it isn't rape and it kind of belittles actual rape.
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02-03-2005, 03:18 PM #22
astrahl
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Location: 9/12/05 - Front Row, Irving Plaza, NYC, drooling Forcing or coercing a woman with monetary punishment to use her body is rape.
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02-03-2005, 05:32 PM #23
Mr Mephisto
Of night and light and the half light
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder You know this is one of those stories based upon entirely conjectural situations that come about because of a silly law or, in this case, unforeseen hypothetical circumstances that probably have no basis in fact.
I invite you to go to http://www.legal-forms-kit.com/lega.../dumb-laws.html for some American examples.
Tell you what! Why don't I write an "Internet scoop" news article on how poor factory workers in South Dakota face jail for lying down and falling asleep. That is, if they work in a cheese factory.
I wonder how much journalistic kudos I'll get for that possibly Pulitzer Prize winning story?
Sheesh....
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02-03-2005, 06:00 PM #24
Fiver
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Join Date: Jan 2005 wow, this is very scary......
I hope the german government stops this !!!!!
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02-03-2005, 06:31 PM #25
*Nikki*
Circle of Life
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Location: Charleston, SC Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifier
Let me guess:
Hamburg Reeperbahn?
or Herbertstraße?
Hamburg
Deggendorf
Were the most populated with them from what I remember. Of couse this was in early 2002.
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02-03-2005, 06:39 PM #26
minyn
young and in bloom
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: under the bodhi tree.... *bling* this sounds a bit sketch.... but im always hesitant from sources im not used too. especially internet based sources...
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02-04-2005, 02:21 AM #27
Pacifier
undead
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Duisburg, Germany Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Hamburg
Deggendorf
Were the most populated with them from what I remember. Of couse this was in early 2002.
Well, Hamburg has of course the Reeperbahn, when you enter the red light district you will find prostitutes...
Deegendorf is small town in bavaria, I don't think that there are so many prostitutes?
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02-04-2005, 01:48 PM #28
*Nikki*
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Location: Charleston, SC Look Pacifier I swear to you that there were prostitutes everywhere when I was in many parts of Europe INCLUDING bavaria. It sounds like you are trying to prove me wrong or something. Do I need to show you my passport stamps?? This is getting kinda of ridiculous.
I saw the prostitutes in those locations and others and that is all there is to it really.
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02-04-2005, 02:30 PM #29
Pacifier
undead
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Location: Duisburg, Germany I'm just amazed. I live here, and i don't see prostitutes at every street corner.
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02-04-2005, 02:48 PM #30
Yakk
Wehret Den Anfängen!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada Hmm.
Nikki, did you negotiate prices?
Pacifier, have you tried propositioning random ladies on the street?
I mean, how can you really know! =)
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02-04-2005, 04:14 PM #31
*Nikki*
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Location: Charleston, SC My boyfriend (at the time) was approached by a lot of the women. Some of the woman were just regular looking and we had no idea until we would talk to them. Of course many of them spoke English well. I was approached a couple of times while we were in Hamburg and I was actually quite flattered. The woman that call themselves prostitutes that I saw there were actually very attractive. Of course I did not participate in such behavior
You made a good point Yakk, sometimes you don't know until you ask!! It's not like they are carrying signs that say "I fuck for money".
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02-05-2005, 01:10 PM #32
Yakk
Wehret Den Anfängen!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
My boyfriend (at the time) was approached by a lot of the women. Some of the woman were just regular looking and we had no idea until we would talk to them. Of course many of them spoke English well. I was approached a couple of times while we were in Hamburg and I was actually quite flattered. The woman that call themselves prostitutes that I saw there were actually very attractive. Of course I did not participate in such behavior
You made a good point Yakk, sometimes you don't know until you ask!! It's not like they are carrying signs that say "I fuck for money".
Naw, signs wouldn't work. It would cover the produce!
They should use tatoos to label them! Maybe a letter, on their forehead?
Quote:
Forcing or coercing a woman with monetary punishment to use her body is rape.
Saying "I will give you 10,000$ if you have sex with him, and 0$ if you do not" isn't rape. Sexual harrassment at the worst.
While I don't agree with what happened, there is some justification for it.
If unemployment is intended as an absolute last resort for people who would otherwise be destitute, if someone of their own free will chooses not to support themselves in a legal manner, withdrawl of unemployment may be justified.
Remember, the "lose EI if you don't take a job" rule kicks in after 1 year of unemployment in Germany. How long does US unemployment last?
Is it worse to say "there is no way for you to get money, no matter what" than to say "you can get money, if there is no other way for you to get money"?
In the USA, that lady would not have any benefits at all, even if nobody had a job for her.
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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.
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