Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > Tilted Fun Zone


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-19-2005, 04:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
"I'm sorry. What was the question?"
 
Daoust's Avatar
 
Location: Paradise Regained
O Canada..we STAND on guard...

I'm a public school elementary teacher and I've noticed a disturbing trend during the playing of O Canada at our schools in recent years.

1. Nobody sings. I have to include myself in that, largely because I'm not a great singer and would feel awkward singing the anthem all by myself. If I just started singing out of the blue, I'm sure I would shock my students because they probably have NEVER had to sing the national anthem. Isn't that sad? At a hockey game, when they sing the anthem you can hear people all around the arena singing, especially towards the end. In schools, O Canada plays like a song at a funeral procession; it's deathly quiet, the kids are fidgety, just waiting for the 40 seconds to finish so they can sit down again.

2. I have to constantly nag at my students to stand at attention. My routine is stand up straight, no leaning on the desks, and tuck your chairs in and stand behind them. Not overly difficult. And yet these students have such disrespect it seems for our national anthem. It really doesn't mean that much to them.

I know that I may be making a big deal out of nothing here, but isn't it worth discussing, at least? Are we losing our love for our national anthem, barely 30 years old? Is singing our national anthem, or knowing the words at least, important? Should we make singing it in schools mandatory???
__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys
Daoust is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 04:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
aberkok's Avatar
 
Location: toronto
While I'm gonna steer clear of the question of whether it should be mandatory, I will say that our national anthem is a much better piece of music than any others I've heard. For that reason alone I think kids should sing it.

Not singing is an epidemic that isn't just limited to your kids. I think our society increasingly is afraid to open wide and belt. As a music major I was taught just how ridiculous a fear of singing is. For proof, just check the TFP Karaoke thread in Trampoline. I urge everyone to sing....sing your national anthem. You'll feel better.

Of course, kids aren't concerned with feeling good. They just want to be cool. I guess there's a lot less at stake ideologically by making kids sing the anthem.

I have no idea what my point is.... maybe that O Canada is a good thing. I also think it should be added to all undergrad music programs: learn to sing and play O Canada in all 12 keys. I'll get started on that right now...

__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."
aberkok is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
Comedian
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
Location: Use the search button
Heh, you want to get me started???

What about people letting the Canadian flag touch the ground? Having a flag touch the ground is so bad that I would never let it happen. I see a flag on the ground, I lose it.

There was something I wanted to state, and I guess that this thread will actually make me go off and search for it: I don't know if soldiers are ALLOWED to sing when in uniform.

When in uniform, you must salute all flags hanging off of a self-supporting flag pole. You don't have to worry about flags on buildings, stickers and stupid shit like that, but if someone can raise it, then you salute it. In groups, the highest rank salutes and the others give a proper eyes left/right.

When the national anthem plays and you are in uniform, you immediately stop, turn towards the closest Canadian Flag and salute for the duration of the song. When in groups, the highest rank salutes and the others stand properly at attention. My question is this: If I am saluting / standing at attention, am I allowed to sing the anthem? No movement is allowed, and of course that means you keep your mouth shut. Period. But what about this as a special case?

I have never sang the anthem in uniform, and always relied on someone else to do it for me. I sing it all the time in civilian clothes, and I sing it loud enough for people to look at me like "Wow, that guy sure is patriotic..." If I am singing loud, I feel it encourages others to do the same.

Hmmm. I am going to ask the Sergeant Major this question. He always knows the rules. Maybe this one will stump him.
__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.
BigBen is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
I don't know... there is a point where respect for the trappings of a nation get out of hand.

While I am proud of what the people in our nation have accomplished, I do not associate that pride with objects and songs. While I will make an effort to respect these symbols I do not go do far as to get upset about the flag touching the ground (I know the rules, they were stamped in my young mind as a Scout).

I actually struggle with this... I believe we need cohesion in the fabric of our society. We live in a nation that is often defined by its differences rather than its commonalities. I am much more proud of our stance on things like the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Unfortuantely you can't wave that around to show your pride. We suppliment this with flags, songs and other trappings.

I suppose there is a part of me that balks at the idea that I should place such meaning into symbols rather than something concrete.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
face f$cker
 
Location: canada
i think the thing that bothered me the most with a 'falg' issue....was on WWF about 2 months ago.....whether its entertainment or not.....one of the 'characters' who was american was just trashing the canadian flag....spitting on it, stomping on it on the ground, etc.....and I was pretty much disgusted. People / fans were cheering too?!?! If the roles were reversed I'm betting the americans would pretty much declare war over this.....
hossified is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 12:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: YOUR MOM!!
I'm involved in schools as well, here we sing O'Canada once a week, on Mondays.
The kids usually don't sing.... you know, too cool and such..... I always sing, which gets the kids looking at me kinda weird... the classroom teacher gets me to explain why I do to them. What I say kind of goes like this; I am proud to be Canadian, also it is my way of honoring and remembering vets year round, not just Rememberance Day.
And finally something my grandfather told me when I was young (he was in WWII),
MEN AND WOMEN OF THIS COUNTRY GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR THIS COUNTRY AND FREEDOM, THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IS GIVE YOUR VOICE! He also told me if people don't want to sing they should get the hell out of our country.... of course I don't tell the kids that part.
__________________
And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...
prosequence is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 01:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
Psycho
 
I remember not too long ago there was big news because a teacher kicked a kid out of class for not standing during the N.A.
this was in the states, but i think it goes universal.
the kid might of sued or something i forget exactly what happened.
but its your choice what you want to do.
Temporary_User is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 08:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
Non-smokers die everyday
 
Location: Montreal
We used to sing the French version of the national anthem when I was in grade school. Some kids didn't sing it, probably due to their parents (lots of separatist sentiments back then, too), but one day my 3rd grade teacher explained that the original French version was played for the first time by Les Voltigeurs de Québec, a military band, during the St-Jean-Baptiste on June 24th (the provincial holiday) 1880, in Quebec City. That's exactly 100 years before the song became Canada's official anthem in 1980 (anglophones basically used "God Save the Queen" up until that point).

Basically, French-Canadians were using it as their own anthem, until a few English versions were made. Finally, one was chosen (I believe based on Hamilton's own Robert Weir's translation of the French version), a bilingual version was made, and the rest is history. So, as my teacher said, the national anthem was Quebec's gift to Canada, and even the English version came from a man who got all of his higher education in Montreal. I believe a lot of enlightenment was achieved that day.

I'm proud to sing all versions of the anthem, but I mostly do so at sporting events (thank god hockey's back!). As for school, the kids should at least KNOW the anthem. I mean, I had to know that, the Lord's Prayer and Mary's Prayer back in grade school AND we had to say/sing them every week. The least kids can do these days is learn their own country anthem!

French version (along with my own literal translation):

Ô Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, (Oh Canada! Land of our forefathers)
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! (Your brow is crowned with glorious flowers)
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, (For your arm can bear the sword)
Il sait porter la croix! (And it can bear the cross)
Ton histoire est une épopée (Your history is an epic)
Des plus brillants exploits. (Of the most brilliant exploits)
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, (And your valor, tempered with faith)
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits, (Will protect our homes and rights)
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. (Will protect our homes and rights)

Bilingual version (sung in Quebec during major events):

Oh Canada! Our home and native land,
True patriot love in all thy sons command!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
God keep our land glorious and free,
Oh Canada! We stand on guard for thee,
Oh Canada! We stand on guard for thee.
__________________
A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

Last edited by Bob Biter; 09-19-2005 at 09:00 PM..
Bob Biter is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 05:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
I am pretty sure the bilingual version is the official version now.

It's the one my son learned to sing from day one at school.

Personally, I like the fact that it's bilingual.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 05:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Here are some of the rejected English translations:

Quote:
O Canada! Our fathers' land of old
Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold.
Beneath the shade of the Holy Cross
Thy children own their birth
No stains thy glorious annals gloss
Since valour shield thy hearth.
Almighty God! On thee we call
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall,
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall.
--translated by Dr. Thomas Bedford Richardson, a Toronto doctor. 1901
Quote:
O Canada! in praise of thee we sing;
From echoing hills our anthems proudly ring.
With fertile plains and mountains grand
With lakes and rivers clear,
Eternal beauty, thos dost stand
Throughout the changing year.
Lord God of Hosts! We now implore
Bless our dear land this day and evermore,
Bless our dear land this day and evermore.
-- translated by Mercy E. Powell McCulloch 1908
Quote:
O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From Pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore.

Parliamentary Action

By the time the World War broke out in 1914, "O Canada" was the best known patriotic song in Canada, edging out "The Maple leaf Forever" and others less well-known today.

1924 - The association of Canadian Clubs passed a unanimous resolution recommending the Weir version as suitable for use at Club meetings.
Since then the I.O.D.E. and the Canadian Authors Association have endorsed it and in 1958 the Native Sons of Canada found in favour of it.

1927 - An official version of "O Canada" was authorized for singing in Canadian schools and for use at public functions.

1942 - July 27. The Prime Minister, the Right Honourable William Lyon Mackenzie King, was asked if he did not think this an appropriate time for proclaiming a national anthem. He replied that "There are times and seasons for all things and this time of war when there are other more important questions with which parliament has to deal, we might well continue to follow what has become the custom in Canada in recent years of regarding "God Save The King" and "O Canada" each as national anthems and entitled to similar recognition." He said further that this was his opinion, his government's opinion and he had no doubt it was the opinion of most people in the country.
Some years later, his successor as Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Louis St-Laurent made a similar statement.

1964 - A government resolution authorized the formation of a special joint committee to consider the status of "God Save The Queen" and "O Canada".

1966 - January 31. The Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Lester B. Pearson, placed a notice of motion on the order paper "That the government be authorized to take such steps as may be necessary to provide that "O Canada" shall be the National Anthem of Canada while "God Save The Queen" shall be the Royal Anthem of Canada.

1967 - March 15. The special joint committee "unanimously recommends that the government be authorized to adopt forthwith the music for "O Canada" composed by Calixa Lavallée as the music of the National Anthem of Canada with the following notation added to the sheet music: With dignity, not too slowly.

"God Save The Queen" was found to be in the public domain as the Royal Anthem of Canada, but for "O Canada" the committee deemed it "essential to take such steps as necessary to appropriate the copyright to the music providing that it shall belong to Her Majesty in right of Canada for all time. This provision would also include that no other person shall be entitled to copyright in the music or any arrangements or adaptations thereof."

The committee recommended further study of the lyrics. It suggested keeping the original French version and using the Weir English version with minor changes - that is replacing two of the "Stand on guard" phrases with "From far and wide" and "God keep our land".

There was no trouble with the music copyright which had by now descended to Gordon V. Thompson. They were willing to sell for $1, but the heirs of Judge Weir objected to the changes in the original version. Since Judge Weir died in 1926, the Weir version would not come into public domain until 1976. There was some doubt that the Weir family had legal grounds for objection since Thompson's apparently held copyright on both music and English words. However the committee preferred to settle the matter amicably if at all possible. The Government acquired the rights from G.V. Thompson in 1970.

The version recommended by the committee:
O Canada! our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.



1972 - February 28 - The Secretary of State of Canada, the Honourable Gérard Pelletier, presented a bill in the House of Commons proposing the adoption of "O Canada" as the National Anthem of Canada. The recommendations of the 1967 study in Parliament are incorporated in the bill, which did not receive further study in Parliament and died on the order paper. The same legislation was reintroduced by Mr. Pelletier's successors at further sessions of Parliament; no action was ever taken.

1980 - June 18 - The Secretary of State of Canada, the Honourable Francis Fox, presented a bill, similar to previously presented bills on "O Canada", fulfilling a promise made earlier in the House that "O Canada" be proclaimed as Canada's national anthem as soon as possible in this year of the centenary of the first rendition. The bill was unanimously accepted by the House of Commons and the Senate on June 27; Royal assent was given the same day.

July 1 - The Governor General, His Excellency the Right Honourable Edward Schreyer, proclaimed the Act respecting the National Anthem of Canada, thus making "O Canada" an official symbol of the country. A public ceremony was held at noon on Parliament Hill in front of thousands of Canadians. Descendants of Weir and Routhier were on the official platform, as well as the successor of Robitaille, the Honourable Jean-Pierre Côté.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 05:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
"I'm sorry. What was the question?"
 
Daoust's Avatar
 
Location: Paradise Regained
I for one don't actually like the bilingual version. I would rather sing it all in English or all in French. It's not that I'm anti-French or anything...really...I'm not. Well, okay, maybe I am a bit.

But I still don't like the hybrid version as much as the all English one.
__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys
Daoust is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 07:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
Non-smokers die everyday
 
Location: Montreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daoust
I for one don't actually like the bilingual version. I would rather sing it all in English or all in French. It's not that I'm anti-French or anything...really...I'm not. Well, okay, maybe I am a bit.

But I still don't like the hybrid version as much as the all English one.
Hearing the all-French version is a rarity even in Quebec now. Seperatists don't sing it (for obvious reasons), and most people don't even know the full French version (my parents don't)! Therefore, the bilingual version is what is most heard and I like it. It perfectly reflects Canada's bilingualism stance (even though the provinces do not).
__________________
A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.
Bob Biter is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 08:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Janey's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
I remember when the movie theatres used to play the national anthem at the beginning of the evening (at the Eaton Centre cineplex a while back) I hated that. But I always stood quietly for the anthem and the Lord's Prayer in high school. Nobody sang it in our home room.

It was never played at university lectures.
Janey is offline  
Old 09-20-2005, 09:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
aberkok's Avatar
 
Location: toronto
I thought you folks might be interested to read about Mr. Calixa Lavallee, composer of our beloved anthem -

http://www3.sympatico.ca/goweezer/ca...anlavallee.htm

And here's an excerpt:
Quote:
O Canada!
The Man Behind the Music

Calixa Lavallée was the man who composed the music for Canada's National Anthem. He was a 'Canadien Errant', or a man who had left Canada to seek greener pastures elsewhere, but returned when he realized that the green pastures he sought were in his own back yard. By the time he returned to Canada, Lavallée had earned a well-deserved reputation as a musician and composer both in France and the United States. Among various 'occasional' pieces and songs, Lavallée composed several operettas and at least one symphony. He was famous as a pianist, organist, and teacher, and, after returning to Canada, wanted to found the first Canadian Conservatory of Music....
Also, did you know that there are other versions of the words that are not dirty??? I found a history of the anthem itself!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/goweezer/canada/cananhist.htm

Excerpt:

Quote:
The music was published in Toronto in 1906 by Whaley and Royce. Included were the original French text and an English translation supplied by Toronto doctor Thomas Bedford Richardson. The Mendelssohn Choir perfomed the song with the English lyrics and Richardson was complimented by both Judge Routhier and the Quebec press.

Dr. Richardson's Version

O Canada! Our fathers' land of old
Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold.
Beneath the shade of the Holy Cross
Thy children own their birth
No stains thy glorious annals gloss
Since valour shield thy hearth.
Almighty God! On thee we call
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall,
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall.

In 1908, Collier's Weekly began publishing a Canadian version of its magazine, and the inugural edition held a competition for English text set to Lavellée's music. Mercy E. Powell McCulloch won the competition and her poem was printed, but the lyrics didn't catch on.

McCulloch Version

O Canada! in praise of thee we sing;
From echoing hills our anthems proudly ring.
With fertile plains and mountains grand,
With lakes and rivers clear,
Eternal beauty, thou dost stand
Throughout the changing year.
Lord God of Hosts! We now implore
Bless our dear land this day and evermore,
Bless our dear land this day and evermore.

Many new versions followed, including one by poet Wilfred Campbell and Toronto critic Augustus Bridle. Other versions were written for Quebec City's tercentennary in 1908. One version became quite popular in British Columbia:

Buchan Version

O Canada, our heritage, our love.
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to sea throughout their length,
From Pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide,
Unflinchingly we'll stand.
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore.
One thing the U.S.A. doesn't have on us is how exciting our history is!! That's for sure!
__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."
aberkok is offline  
Old 09-22-2005, 09:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
In protest to the changed lyrics, "God keep our land..." line I sing "Bob keep or land....."

I think there is no place for "God" in our national anthem.
Powderedmaggot is offline  
Old 09-22-2005, 09:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
"I'm sorry. What was the question?"
 
Daoust's Avatar
 
Location: Paradise Regained
Powdered Maggot. Thanks for your input, but let's stay on task here. I don't want this thread to turn into a Christianity bashing thread. Head on over to Tilted Philosophy if you want that.
__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys
Daoust is offline  
Old 09-22-2005, 10:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powderedmaggot
In protest to the changed lyrics, "God keep our land..." line I sing "Bob keep or land....."
In J.R. "Bob" Dobbs we trust, no doubt.



I've sung many national anthems. Canada's is probably the most melodic out there, and the range is easy.
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 09-22-2005, 10:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
I've always been fond of the La Marseilles (French National Anthem)... it's very easy to sing.

O Canada is easy but for that last high note O Canada at the end.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
 

Tags
canadawe, guard, stand

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:53 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360