OFKU0

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca

Aside from my own personal views that the GG position be eliminated, this line stuck out to me as very telling given the current social nurturing of everything francophone in this country to the point of nauseum;

And when is British Columbia's turn? Or Prince Edward Island's turn? Or Nova Scotia's turn? Or Newfoundland's turn? Or the Territories turn? Seems as thought the last 5 out of 10 GG's including the new one have or are francophones. Guess they were right. 50/50 split. Thankfully someone is on the ball.



A history of the GG since the 50's;

http://www.gg.ca/50/ggs_e.asp

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

highthief

There had not been a Quebecer in the office since 79. As much as people like to complain about Quebec in English Canada, I think it is somewhat fair to say that, after 26 years, it could be their "turn".

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Charlatan

Yes, OFKUO it would be interesting to rid ourselves of the GG but what would we replace that position with? Are you suggesting we have a republic or just no head of state?

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OFKU0

Banana Republic. Opps,...I meant Tim Horton's Republic.

Your question paints me into a corner. If a republic were inabled, the constitution would need changing, and I don't see enough bright lights in this country to trust doing so without fucking that up royally (no pun intended)

As for a head of state, that I assuming would be elected rather than appointed? Again, the current GG position is meant as an apolitical position. However in as such, the duties and allegiances are to that of the Queen, other than to Canada for being a representative as such.

Maybe today the GG position carries more relevance than I think it is worth, but the question in time is how as a multicultural society it will be deemed relevant in all it Euro-centricities,...ie swearing allegiances to the Queen or in time the King, our currency dedicated to the monarchy, our constitution as part of a Commonwealth etc,...

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Charlatan

The republic of Tim Horton... ...and Timbits for all.

I think the constitutional changes are the biggest hurdle we would face... and it's a damn big one. There would have to be a very big personality (on the level of a Trudeau) to push that kind of change through...

You are correct that the current role of the GG is essentially apolitical. If it became an elected position, not only would it cost *more* money to maintain the position but it would become pointlessly partisan.

I don't see that multiculturalism plays into this... in fact, the last two GGs have been immigrants (Clarkson from China and Jean from Haiti) which in and of itself is interesting. While I can agree that our adherence to the Monarchy is kind of charming, if more than a little outdated, I don't see that it is a negative as far as the multicultural make up of our nation. Hell, the UK is as multi-ethnic as we are and they have the actual Queen rather than a rep.

In the end, it is a symbol of our past. The key, and I think Clarkson and some of the more recent GGs like Hnatyshyn are on the right path, is to make the position more relevant to Canadians. More visible both here and abroad. It may cost a little more money but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather see it spent on this sort of thing than programs (legit or not) like the Sponsorship money. It seems to me the GG is in a great postion to promote the idea of Canada and federalism to Canadians (apoloitically speaking).

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

vox_rox

Actually, you can have it both ways, Tim's used to make a mean banana bread, though I haven't seen it in a while. Hmm....

But, still, the role of the GG has changed considerably in recent years. Although I hate to think of it as PR, the GG now spends a great deal of time refining the vision of Canada internationally.

Do we need this? Hard to say really, but when I think of how intelligently and intellectually Clarkson did this I think that it surely can't do any harm. Especially back when we had a barely understandable and only partially literate talking sock (Chretien) as PM.

The Quebec vs. English debate could go on, but I think it's not appropriate here. In a very real sense, the GG has great visibility but effectually on real power. Yes, the GG is head of state and with that comes, inherently, some rather far-reaching powers. But in reality, the GG understands that to interfere with governmnent, whether efficacious or not, is no longer the mandate of the GG.

And, I think we have another GG here that will be able to communicate succinctly, intelligently and with passion (no pun intended) so that Canada can be repected on that level for the next few years.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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OFKU0

I can agree with what has been said. Good points.

Now for a brief moment of crankiness and I'm sure I will stand alone in this sentiment.

I listened to the press conference with Jean after her announcement and private meeting with Martin. She mentioned something to the point of treating all Canadians and Quebecers equally. I know this is a non issue for many folks, but I am sick and tired of the tag Quebecers constantly being refered to as a seperate and distinct entity when Canada is addressed as a whole.

This is no mistake either. Darling Belinda Stronach said much the same when she jumped onto Martins ship and this being said is pretty much a staple for politicians to refer specifically in such ways to Quebec.

Disclaimer-- Bob Biter---I DO NOT HATE THE FRENCH

But this singling out Quebec at every turn does nothing but solidify it's already over abundance of just rewards and significance beyond all else. And no, it's not just political positioning to appease Quebecers. It goes well beyond that.

Don't mean to pluck any feathers out there but as a very proud Canadian, I would like to see everyone including Quebecers be addressed as a whole rather than as Canadians and Quebecers seperately.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Charlatan

That's a premptive shhh... and don't think I don't have a whole bag of shh right here with your name on it...



I totally see where you are coming from OFKUO. While I do see Quebec as distinct, but not seperate, I wish there was another way to point this out than the language we currently use...

As I see it we have:

CANADA

and it was created by three distinct nations:

English Canada -- French Canada -- Native Canada


French Canada is too frequently refered to as Quebec which, as you point out, does nothing to foster unity when you say something like, "Canada and Quebec." I would rather they said something like, "English and French Canada." BOTH are Canadian and as such share much, however, they distinction between the two language groups *is* important to make.

In the end, the language doesn't really matter if the attitude that supports it isn't there...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

OFKU0

I don't buy that arguement at all. Quebec is as distinct as every other province and territory in this country. I know. I've seen all of Canada and beg to differ.My apologies to the Territories and Newfoundland and Labrador.



Maybe created as such but the demographic has changed culturally and linguistic wise big time. Canada has entered a new paradigm of multicultural diversity bringing second and third wave re-enforcements as a testement to the culture. We haven't caught on yet because we are so wrapped up in making Quebec the darling of Canada at all cost, and the irony is that most people don't give a shit. Especially those who are changing the face of Canada for themselves other than being the eternal victims.That might be good. Or that might be costly


Why not just say Canadian's?

Back to the previous point. How many languages are of different mother tongue in this country? I don't give a fuck about founding fathers. This is NOW

According to whom? And which attitude are you speaking of? The winners or losers.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

feelgood

If we get rid of the GG position, wouldn't that make Canada a federation of 10 provinces and 3 territories?

If we were to decide to cut off the connection between Canada and the Queen of the Commonwealth, I suppose we could replace the position with the Head of the Paraliament which is currently called "The Speaker" (If I recall my social studies classes in high school...) As political it can be, it has no real power other than controlling the sessions in the parliament.

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Charlatan

feelgood... the speaker as it stands is someone from the house that is appointed to the position by the PM. This person is usually an MP from the party in power.

If we get rid of the GG we would be ridding ourselves of our Head of State (distinctly different from the PM who is the Head of the Government). If we were to grant the actual powers of the GG to the speak, I would require that position to be either a) appointed by the PM but be someone from outside the Parliment or b) an elected position.

That said, I hardly think it is right that the head of state of a nation be the arbiter of petty squables and points of order in the House of Commons (the current job of the Speaker).

Regardless, it would take a massive change in the Constitution to do this. Doing so would open a HUGE can of worms (think Meech Lake, Charlottown Accord and even the repatriation of the British North America Act). As I said, before it will take a lot of political will and a PM with a personality no less as big as Trudeau to force that kind of change through (and I don't see anyone of that stature now or even on the horizon).

So the answer is yes, we could make Canada a republic but at what cost?

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

OFKUO... while I can see your issue with regards to multiculturalism I have I still say that Quebec culture *is* distinct but not separate from the larger aegis of Canada.

Fishermen in Newfoundland have a lot more in common culturally with the fishing communities of BC than they do with the French communities much closer on say, the Island of St. Pierre or in New Brunswick.

A person living in rural Ontario, again culturally speaking has a hell of a lot more in common with a rural denizen of Alberta or Saskatchewan than any of them do with rural Quebec.

The Quebecquios/Acadie culture *is* more deeply distinct than any of the other regional differences you could care to point out. The television, the literature, the radio, the personalities, the folk tales, the customs, the laws, the way of life, the list goes on…

Now, the question this begs to me is should this difference be represented politically as well? I tend to be a Federalist so I suppose my answer would be no. I do not follow the thinking that says, “more power to the provinces.”

This is a long winded way, to say that after some thought, I will agree with you completely. It should always be Canada and Canadians first.


On another side of this, if we are to recognize the multicultural makeup of Canada, and not just be another melting pot, where do we draw the line and how? Do we look at hard numbers of say, Somalis vs. Italians vs. French vs. ? That seems rather silly.

The fact of the matter is that each of these multi ethnic groups represents a significant number of voters. Do you really think we would have seen Harper, Martin and Layton in turbans speaking to Sheikhs this spring if they weren’t trying for votes? Martin stopped for Dim Sum in downtown Toronto during the last election for a reason. The attention paid to Quebec really isn’t that much different, except that Quebec represents a heck of a lot more votes.

Again, this sort of politicking should have no place in the mouth of the GG.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

OFKU0

I was thinking the speaker of the house also but it wouldn't work since that is a political position. And that position does come with power also. If the budget vote tied some weeks ago, it was up to the speaker to break that tie, and vote in favour of the ruling party.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/ab...r/index_e.html

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

james t kirk

Abolish the position.

We need a GG like we need a hole in the head.

And then abolish the Senate and save even more money. What a waste that is.

Daoust

I just thought that our new CG was Adrienne Clarkson II. A female, visible minority. Sure it helps that she's French.
Like James T. Kirk, I think her position should be abolished, or at least she should not be allowed to spend the taxpayers money like Clarkson did. Am I alone there?

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Bob Biter

Don't worry, OFKU0. I know you don't hate francophones, just the situation that puts them higher than everyone else in Canada. I've read enough of your posts to know your opinions. Funny... I didn't think I'd earn the title of "Defender of the French-Canadians on the TFP"! It's true that I react to posts specifically aimed at FC, but that's just because some people take shots at them out of hand. You should've seen the posts I've read in the beginning of the Iraq war. Americans were hating on the French (from France) for providing equipment to Saddam Hussein, and some English-Canadians drew some negative parallels between them and French-Canadians. This pissed me off royally and my angriest posts were written during this period.

Your own posts clearly show your opinions without seeming blatantly hostile. I have no beef with you.

As for the current situation with the new GG, I am of two minds. While I think of the position as essentially useless (aside from a PR point of view), I am glad that the recent appointments show how diverse and accepting Canada is. I agree that since the person is not elected, the whole thing has that "politicking" stink to it, but one cannot deny that appointees are a positive example to the world. I don't feel any particular pride that Jean is from Quebec. She is a Canadian first and foremost and a head of state, not of a province.

As Charlatan mentioned, Quebec has its own culture, popularized through its own publications, movies and media. It has been around since before the foundation of the country. Its population represents a quarter of Canadians. The fact that it gets so much attention is, in my opinion, unavoidable. Separatist sentiments, and the cajoling it entails, certainly don't help Quebec's image, but I wish people would look beyond that. This movement has ended and was only truly used as a political tool, anyway.

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A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

james t kirk

I love Quebec. Been all over the place and planning a road trip to the Gaspe via Quebec City next weekend.

I have travelled to quebec more times than I can count, but please explain to me one thing.

Quebec popular music.....

It's TERRIBLE. Painful even to listen too.

All those Quebec pop bands sound the same. They all remind me of Michael Bolton the way they sing, only in French of course. And they take themselves way too seriously.

Looking forward to the Gaspe again, but will be taking plenty of CDs with me to listen to on the way....

OFKU0

I'll be driving through Montreal onward to Boston in a couple of weeks. Really love Montreal but the roads are brutal. My car needs an alignment but I'll wait to see if the potholes that could hide a football knock it back into place. Or bust a tie rod.

Why doesn't the Quebec government fix the goodamned roads? It use to be that the Decarie Expressway was the worst road in Montreal. Now it's one of the best, and they haven't done anything to it.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Bob Biter

james t kirk: pop music sucks no matter what language it's sung in. I always have CDs in my car.

OFKU0: extreme temperature differences between summer and winter + heavy usage of rock salt on roads + lack of adequate funding = shitty roads all the time. It makes me laugh when I see guys lower their car's suspension to look cool in their Hondas. that shit's gotta last just a few days before they smarten up.

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A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

Charlatan

Hey! I said, they have a distinct culture not a bearable culture .

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke