Montreal-Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau International Airport - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bob Biter · 07-12-2005, 10:25 PM

So, I was buying my flight ticket to return to the great city of Montreal, when I noticed that Dorval International Airport is now known as Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau (PET) International Airport. My parents told me about this in January 2004, when the name change was official, but I'd completely forgotten about it until a few days ago.

I got the same reaction I did last year. Why did the name need to be changed, and (more importantly) why did the new name have to be the man who enacted the War Measures Act in Quebec? I understand that Pierre-Elliott Trudeau was a popular and charismatic Prime Minister (he was in office for 16 years), but his popularity within Quebec is far from widespread... so what gives?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be just as weirded out if the new name had been Maurice Duplessis International Airport (the man gave Quebec its flag, of which I'm as proud of as the Canadian flag, but his policies towards the handicapped were horrible) or Mulroney International Airport. I mean, Trudeau wanted to SHUT DOWN Dorval Airport in favor of Mirabel - which is now only used for cargo and charter flight and is about as significant as the Olympic Stadium, a veritable white elephant - and now his name is on the airport people will actually be using. I just don't get it...

Any other Montrealers have an opinion on this? I know it's an old issue, but living in Japan cut me off from stuff like that.

OFKU0 · 07-13-2005, 07:23 AM

I think after Mount Logan was surrendered from being called Mount Trudeau, something had to be named in his honour. That usually is the protocol of ex Prime Ministers.

As with the War Measures Act, Trudeau also instated the Official Bilingualism Act and the Multiculturalism Act. Since it's inception, both Acts have costed Canadians 1 billion and 100 million a year respectively.

Now Bob,...take a deep breath, I'm not slamming one or the other. However 1 billion dollars a year to protect the French language from attrition is a little suspect considering every other culture in Canada faces attrition without the hefty handouts.

And last week, an MP, can't remember which one, stood in the House saying that 100 million a year for multiculturalism isn't working, and like official bilingualism, the money is virtually impossible to track.

I have learned to support Canada as a bilingual nation and a multicultural one at that. Should monies be allocated for either and or. Perhaps there should be but not at the extravagant costs that have become routine.

Trudeau was concerned that francophones wouldn't be represented especially in the workplace, ie the Federal Government. He must be rolling in his grave now. It is virtually impossible to attain work in the Federal gov't if one is not French first, then bilingual. But that's not his doing. That is the overzealous francophone lobby that won't stop short of anything until they get exactly what they want. French first, everyone else next.

Anyways, as long as flights still come and go on time, it really doesn't matter what they call the airport. And of course have bilingual signage for anglophones visiting Quebec. Maybe they should have named an airport in his honour in Calgary or someplace out west. You know,...for national unity and such.

Janey · 07-13-2005, 09:36 AM

It may be a flyer's habit, but I've been referring to airports by their three letter designation lately: YYR, YYZ, YVR, LAX etc...

Charlatan · 07-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

However 1 billion dollars a year to protect the French language from attrition is a little suspect considering every other culture in Canada faces attrition without the hefty handouts.

OFKUO, I understand where you are coming from but the other culture you speak of weren't one of the founding three cultures of Canada (English, French and Native). By "every other culture in Canada" I take it you are excluding English...

Yes there is a lot of money spent on keeping us bilingual but that is just what it costs to *be* bilingual. If it is so hard to track where did the number 1 billion come from? Probably the same place most of these numbers come from... some spin doctor's ass. Tnumber is likely *much* lower. For example how much more does it cost to make bilingual signage or print bilingual forms? My guess is not all that much more than it costs to make unilingual ones.

Multiculturalism is another issue. I'd like to know where that money is being spent and why?

OFKU0 · 07-13-2005, 11:11 AM

Actually the estimates are quite accurate. What isn't is where the money is going. No one seems to know. Kinda like Adscam but legal.A friend of the family is a senator (and yes we argue all the time that the senate should be abolished, me in favour, him obviously not) and the amounts of money to duplicate everything into French is unbelievably astronomical. Just the translation cost is enormous.I can't remember the figures but it is huge.

I'm not against bilingualism, but rather support it where it is warranted, just like the City of Ottawa's bilingualism policy, at least as of today. What does intrigue me is that it is no ones fault but the French in Quebec that they are losing their mother tongue. If they choose to speak English rather than French, why should every Canadian pay for it? We don't care if Canadian Italians, Polish, Japanese etc or even Native Canadians lose their language. Hell we don't care about Native Canadians period. So they weren't the founding cultures with exception to the Natives. Who cares?

But then this can digress into who is distinct and who isn't and I've said my piece concerning that. The only thing that comes from that is that some are more equal than others

Anyways my apology for putting this thread on another track. Bob Biter don't bite my head off. I'm not against you or Quebecers. Would just like to see Canada the best it can be without all the jockeying for the pinnacle position in terms of who deserves what and how much.

Sticky · 07-14-2005, 10:26 AM

Back on track.

I really don't care for renamings.
It is still Dorval in my mind (from habit) and it will probably be a while before I think of PET first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Biter

I mean, Trudeau wanted to SHUT DOWN Dorval Airport in favor of Mirabel - which is now only used for cargo and charter flight and is about as significant as the Olympic Stadium, a veritable white elephant - and now his name is on the airport people will actually be using. I just don't get it...

This is the reason that it really did not make sense to me.

vox_rox · 07-14-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Biter

Why did the name need to be changed, and (more importantly) why did the new name have to be the man who enacted the War Measures Act in Quebec? I understand that Pierre-Elliott Trudeau was a popular and charismatic Prime Minister (he was in office for 16 years), but his popularity within Quebec is far from widespread... so what gives?

I have to say something here, actually a couple of things, so hang in there for a minute.

Firstly, Trudeau is not unpopular in Quebec. It's true that he is no friend of the seperatists, but even many of them respect him beacuse is a Frenchman and a Quebecer, and a truly intelligent statesman worthy of respect. As for the rest of the country, even if you didn't like some of ihs policies (the NEP is a good one to hate for starters), he still ALWAYS presented this country in a way that is becoming of all Canadians. He would never find himself singly Irish Eyes holding hands with some doofus in the president's office like assohle Mulroney did. He was smart, courteous, original, and decisive, and we could use a little of that right now. He was no one's lap dog, that is for sure.

As for renaming, it's important to note that Trudeau's estate was very vocal in not renaming Mt. Logan as they believed the mountain was already named after a great man and it would be a disservice to do so.

As for renaming an airport, no big deal. It's not like Dorval is important, just a kinda crappy little town that didn't argue very loud when they proposed an airport in their backyard. So what?

The Trudeau legacy, for god or bad, is an important one, even if you don't believe in bilingualism or multiculturalism. He changed this country and he did it in a way that will long be remembered, both for the man and the achievements.

Even in Quebec.

Peace,

Pierre

Charlatan · 07-14-2005, 01:06 PM

It isn't like anyone got up in arms when Malton International Airport was renamed Pearson International... Well maybe one old codger in the Hamlet of Malton.

Let's face it, something bigish was going to be named PET and a high school was not going to be enough. I thought renaming Dorval was appropriate but then again I am just un maudit anglais...

Sticky · 07-14-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I thought renaming Dorval was appropriate but then again I am just un maudit anglais...

I agree with you that renaming something big was appropriate but it is actually quite ironic (maybe even neer the edge of inappropriate) that it was Dorval due to his involvement in Mirabel which was all but completely closed at the time of the re-naming.

Bob Biter · 07-14-2005, 03:51 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Don't worry OFKU0, I know how passionate you are about the whole issue regarding all the money going into bilingualism. Funny thing is, I used to be a translator and having two national languages is what kept me in the job market!

vox_rox, that was a good reply. I know Quebecers respect Trudeau on some degree, but the hardcore separatists look to him negatively BECAUSE he was a French-Canadian from Quebec and they felt betrayed by their own "kind" as it were, despite the things he did to promote French culture. My own family, which is completely French-Canadian, has more than a few separatists and stuff like the War Measures Act comes up more than often at family gatherings. It saddens me a lot.

I realize that a popular ex-Prime Minister has to have something big named after him, but aren't there other big airports in Canada? How about Toronto? Perhaps they chose an airport in Quebec since this is where Trudeau was from? Regardless, I dread going back to Hochelaga-Maisonneuve on Montreal's predominantly French East End, since the separatists are just looking for things to be pissed about, and that renaming just fueled the flames of something that I wish would just go away. Some of them don't understand that sending the army was in response to what were basically terrorist attacks.

However, despite Dorval pretty much existing just for the airport, I'll probably never stop calling it Dorval Airport.

OFKU0 · 07-14-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Biter

However, despite Dorval pretty much existing just for the airport, I'll probably never stop calling it Dorval Airport.

Me also. Was about 14 years old with my family flying out of Dorval to Miami, and lo and behold who is getting his shoes shined? Jean Beliveau.

It took me a few minutes but I finally approached him. I said I was a hockey player and I liked how he used to play. His shine was over.

Now some stars would sign an autograph and leave, not even remembering the face they just looked at.

Jean Beliveau spoke with me for a good 10 minutes,...not because he had to,..but because he wanted to.

Total class act. No two ways about it.

Dorval it will remain.

Charlatan · 07-15-2005, 06:08 AM

Trudeau is way more associated with Montreal than he is with anyhwhere else (other than Ottawa). Toronto wouldn't work because they had only just named our airport Pearson (like 10 to 15 years ago?). Pearson is another giant of Canadian politics.

Maybe they should have named Calgary's airport after Trudeau... now that would be ironic and would raise the ire of the
western seperatists... National Energy anyone?

OFKU0 · 07-15-2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Trudeau is way more associated with Montreal than he is with anyhwhere else (other than Ottawa). Toronto wouldn't work because they had only just named our airport Pearson (like 10 to 15 years ago?). Pearson is another giant of Canadian politics.

Toronto airport was named after Pearson in 1984.

Wonder what will be named after Clark, Turner, Mulroney and da boss Chretien. I'd offer suggestions for all but it is good beer drinking Friday, in copious amounts. Maybe I'll be cranky tomorrow.

edit,..of shit,..I forgot our first unelected female Prime Minister Kim Campbell. How could I have forgotten her in all her glory.

Charlatan · 07-15-2005, 08:07 AM

Jeez... was it in 1984.

God I'm getting old. I would have swore it was mid-90s...

Clark, Turner and Campbell are not likely to get the kind of treatment someone like Pearson or Trudeau recieve.

Mulroney and Chretien, given their long service in the role of PM and the undying support their perspective followers provide, will likely get some sort of big naming. They won't, however, get their own mini-series on the CBC.

james t kirk · 07-16-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vox_rox

I He would never find himself singly Irish Eyes holding hands with some doofus in the president's office like asshole Mulroney did.

[screams with laughter]

You said it brother.

james t kirk · 07-16-2005, 05:30 PM

The funny thing about Trudeau was that a lot of Francophones hated him saying that he was an Anglo (since his mother was an Elliot)

And many Anglos hated him saying that he was a just another Francophone.

Guess that's what made him unique was that he pissed of the French just as much as he pissed off the English.

james t kirk · 07-16-2005, 05:31 PM

As far as it goes, I remember when they renamed Toronto International Airport to Lester B. Pearson.

At the time, (yes it doesn't seem like 20 years ago) I remember thinking the same as you, "I am still going to call it Toronto International"

But it's so easy to jump into a cab and say, "I need to go to Pearson" isn't it.

Now, you want to talk about being pissed off about a renaming, I for one am not going to call the Sky Dome the "Rogers Centre" as long as I live. Fuck that egomaniac Ted Rogers. He should call it, "the Free Stadium"

OFKU0 · 07-16-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t kirk

Now, you want to talk about being pissed off about a renaming, I for one am not going to call the Sky Dome the "Rogers Centre" as long as I live. Fuck that egomaniac Ted Rogers. He should call it, "the Free Stadium"

Only for him. The taxpayers of the Skydome (Ontario residents) will keep paying for a long time to come. That's the way it goes thought.

As long as the people of this country don't give a shit how, who, where, why, what and when they are getting fucked royally up the ass, why should anyone really give a shit, especially if one is on the receiving end of such gratuities.

To bad people don't give a flying fuck anymore. Sign of the times I suppose.

Sticky · 07-18-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t kirk

But it's so easy to jump into a cab and say, "I need to go to Pearson" isn't it.

And it is so easy to say "I need to go to Dorval".

Bob Biter · 07-18-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

And it is so easy to say "I need to go to Dorval".

There it is. I'm sure regular foreign travelers to Montreal will also keep calling it Dorval, unless they REALLY like to show off their accent!

07-12-2005, 10:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bob Biter Non-smokers die everyday Location: Montreal	Montreal-Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau International Airport So, I was buying my flight ticket to return to the great city of Montreal, when I noticed that Dorval International Airport is now known as Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau (PET) International Airport. My parents told me about this in January 2004, when the name change was official, but I'd completely forgotten about it until a few days ago. I got the same reaction I did last year. Why did the name need to be changed, and (more importantly) why did the new name have to be the man who enacted the War Measures Act in Quebec? I understand that Pierre-Elliott Trudeau was a popular and charismatic Prime Minister (he was in office for 16 years), but his popularity within Quebec is far from widespread... so what gives? Don't get me wrong, I'd be just as weirded out if the new name had been Maurice Duplessis International Airport (the man gave Quebec its flag, of which I'm as proud of as the Canadian flag, but his policies towards the handicapped were horrible) or Mulroney International Airport. I mean, Trudeau wanted to SHUT DOWN Dorval Airport in favor of Mirabel - which is now only used for cargo and charter flight and is about as significant as the Olympic Stadium, a veritable white elephant - and now his name is on the airport people will actually be using. I just don't get it... Any other Montrealers have an opinion on this? I know it's an old issue, but living in Japan cut me off from stuff like that. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

07-13-2005, 07:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	I think after Mount Logan was surrendered from being called Mount Trudeau, something had to be named in his honour. That usually is the protocol of ex Prime Ministers. As with the War Measures Act, Trudeau also instated the Official Bilingualism Act and the Multiculturalism Act. Since it's inception, both Acts have costed Canadians 1 billion and 100 million a year respectively. Now Bob,...take a deep breath, I'm not slamming one or the other. However 1 billion dollars a year to protect the French language from attrition is a little suspect considering every other culture in Canada faces attrition without the hefty handouts. And last week, an MP, can't remember which one, stood in the House saying that 100 million a year for multiculturalism isn't working, and like official bilingualism, the money is virtually impossible to track. I have learned to support Canada as a bilingual nation and a multicultural one at that. Should monies be allocated for either and or. Perhaps there should be but not at the extravagant costs that have become routine. Trudeau was concerned that francophones wouldn't be represented especially in the workplace, ie the Federal Government. He must be rolling in his grave now. It is virtually impossible to attain work in the Federal gov't if one is not French first, then bilingual. But that's not his doing. That is the overzealous francophone lobby that won't stop short of anything until they get exactly what they want. French first, everyone else next. Anyways, as long as flights still come and go on time, it really doesn't matter what they call the airport. And of course have bilingual signage for anglophones visiting Quebec. Maybe they should have named an airport in his honour in Calgary or someplace out west. You know,...for national unity and such. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

07-13-2005, 11:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Actually the estimates are quite accurate. What isn't is where the money is going. No one seems to know. Kinda like Adscam but legal.A friend of the family is a senator (and yes we argue all the time that the senate should be abolished, me in favour, him obviously not) and the amounts of money to duplicate everything into French is unbelievably astronomical. Just the translation cost is enormous.I can't remember the figures but it is huge. I'm not against bilingualism, but rather support it where it is warranted, just like the City of Ottawa's bilingualism policy, at least as of today. What does intrigue me is that it is no ones fault but the French in Quebec that they are losing their mother tongue. If they choose to speak English rather than French, why should every Canadian pay for it? We don't care if Canadian Italians, Polish, Japanese etc or even Native Canadians lose their language. Hell we don't care about Native Canadians period. So they weren't the founding cultures with exception to the Natives. Who cares? But then this can digress into who is distinct and who isn't and I've said my piece concerning that. The only thing that comes from that is that some are more equal than others Anyways my apology for putting this thread on another track. Bob Biter don't bite my head off. I'm not against you or Quebecers. Would just like to see Canada the best it can be without all the jockeying for the pinnacle position in terms of who deserves what and how much. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

07-14-2005, 01:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It isn't like anyone got up in arms when Malton International Airport was renamed Pearson International... Well maybe one old codger in the Hamlet of Malton. Let's face it, something bigish was going to be named PET and a high school was not going to be enough. I thought renaming Dorval was appropriate but then again I am just un maudit anglais... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-14-2005, 03:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bob Biter Non-smokers die everyday Location: Montreal	Thanks for the feedback everyone! Don't worry OFKU0, I know how passionate you are about the whole issue regarding all the money going into bilingualism. Funny thing is, I used to be a translator and having two national languages is what kept me in the job market! vox_rox, that was a good reply. I know Quebecers respect Trudeau on some degree, but the hardcore separatists look to him negatively BECAUSE he was a French-Canadian from Quebec and they felt betrayed by their own "kind" as it were, despite the things he did to promote French culture. My own family, which is completely French-Canadian, has more than a few separatists and stuff like the War Measures Act comes up more than often at family gatherings. It saddens me a lot. I realize that a popular ex-Prime Minister has to have something big named after him, but aren't there other big airports in Canada? How about Toronto? Perhaps they chose an airport in Quebec since this is where Trudeau was from? Regardless, I dread going back to Hochelaga-Maisonneuve on Montreal's predominantly French East End, since the separatists are just looking for things to be pissed about, and that renaming just fueled the flames of something that I wish would just go away. Some of them don't understand that sending the army was in response to what were basically terrorist attacks. However, despite Dorval pretty much existing just for the airport, I'll probably never stop calling it Dorval Airport. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

07-13-2005, 09:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	It may be a flyer's habit, but I've been referring to airports by their three letter designation lately: YYR, YYZ, YVR, LAX etc...

07-15-2005, 06:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Trudeau is way more associated with Montreal than he is with anyhwhere else (other than Ottawa). Toronto wouldn't work because they had only just named our airport Pearson (like 10 to 15 years ago?). Pearson is another giant of Canadian politics. Maybe they should have named Calgary's airport after Trudeau... now that would be ironic and would raise the ire of the western seperatists... National Energy anyone? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-15-2005, 08:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Jeez... was it in 1984. God I'm getting old. I would have swore it was mid-90s... Clark, Turner and Campbell are not likely to get the kind of treatment someone like Pearson or Trudeau recieve. Mulroney and Chretien, given their long service in the role of PM and the undying support their perspective followers provide, will likely get some sort of big naming. They won't, however, get their own mini-series on the CBC. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-16-2005, 05:30 PM	#16 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	The funny thing about Trudeau was that a lot of Francophones hated him saying that he was an Anglo (since his mother was an Elliot) And many Anglos hated him saying that he was a just another Francophone. Guess that's what made him unique was that he pissed of the French just as much as he pissed off the English.

07-16-2005, 05:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	As far as it goes, I remember when they renamed Toronto International Airport to Lester B. Pearson. At the time, (yes it doesn't seem like 20 years ago) I remember thinking the same as you, "I am still going to call it Toronto International" But it's so easy to jump into a cab and say, "I need to go to Pearson" isn't it. Now, you want to talk about being pissed off about a renaming, I for one am not going to call the Sky Dome the "Rogers Centre" as long as I live. Fuck that egomaniac Ted Rogers. He should call it, "the Free Stadium"