Latham. Australia's last great hope or... asshole - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 06-28-2005, 06:41 AM

For someone who actually believed in Mark Latham, and what I thought was the potential he brought the party, I'm absolutely disenchanted with his comments (as reported in the SMH - http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...724631674.html) about Labor being a "lost cause" in Australia.

His attitude stinks of sour grapes and common "piss headedness". Never again will I be seduced by the 'common man' who professes to stand for the Aussie worker/battler/liberal (LOWER case L)/socially conscious man...

Jeez... I should have listened to my wife (a semi-regular Liberal voter) when she said he was a fuck-wit...

Mr Mephisto

spindles · 06-28-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Never again will I be seduced by the 'common man' who professes to stand for the Aussie worker/battler/liberal (LOWER case L)/socially conscious man...

Welcome to politics - can any politician really be trusted?

He has certainly come across as someone with sour grapes - though this is all based on the released promotional material from the book, so it may need to be taken with a grain of salt. When the full context is known these statements might look slightly less confrontational.

cinnles · 06-28-2005, 09:44 PM

still better than beazley or creen if you ask me.

dlish · 06-28-2005, 11:41 PM

i was in the same boat as mr mephisto.

i really did think he had the go-get-em attitude. i also thought he was a straightshooter before becoming labor party leader..then toned on his rhetoric..and now hes back with sour grapes. he still IS a straight shooter though, only thing is, he's shooting his load staight in his face.

damn wanker.

Ella · 06-29-2005, 03:23 AM

Ditto Mr Mephisto and dlishguy. I, like my folks and many other Labor supporters saw a real future for the party with Latham at the helm. Sure, he came in blazing with the taxi driver incident and the "conga line of suckholes" quip, but the pollies superannuation reforms were to be applauded. Not sure what happened....bad advice? Poor vision? Lack of motivation (especially after the crushing election defeat)?

I'm a little disillusioned in the party at the moment, and I'm not all that thrilled with Beazley as a leader. Yet when I look at Howard's possible successor, I cringe with dismay. How are the Greens looking these days....?

dlish · 06-29-2005, 03:41 AM

or maybe the democrats? those greenies are a little wacko. that bob brown tree hugging lunatic with his commies as PM? wow now thats a new australia!

although my fondest memory of mr latham would have to be the comment of "ass-licker" when referring to little johnny and his relationship with mr bush.

as for labors future.. i think the only shining light in the party at the moment would have to be kevin rudd. had he taken the realms instead of latham back then, he may have done a better job, but these days who knows? beazly is past his best..his on again off again political career doesnt do justice to his party.

as for the liberals..although my stomach turns at the though of mr costello..i must admit they he has done a great job with the economy..although we've paid a heavy price with our taxes have we not?

did anyone say Greens?

frought · 06-29-2005, 03:53 AM

I've always voted left of centre, and I would have very much preferred Latham as PM compared to Howard, but frankly, I've always thought he was a thug and a fuckwit. I've heard his rhetoric compared to Keating, but I don't think he was a pinch on Keating - Keating descended to the gutter to make some low (yet eloquent) blows, Latham never left (and never was eloquent).

Agreed that Rudd is the future of Labor. When can that lad take power?

Mind you, also surprised at some peoples lack of desire to have Costello succeed Howard. Don't you think Costello has a soul, where Howard is lacking any sense of principle or social justice? I think the liberal party would be a very different beast under Costello compared to Howard - bring it on!

Had Costello been running against Latham, for the first time ever I would've preferenced Libs over Labor.

All my first prefs run to the Greens, of course. Glad somebody has some decent social, environmental, and other policies.

Democrats, sadly, are a dead duck.

aKula · 06-29-2005, 04:58 AM

Yeah the democrats self destructed, that was a shame really. Ditto on your thoughts about Latham and Rudd. I was dissapointed with the last election, the campaigns consisted of throwing around money, instead of actually discussing some coherent policy.

Ella · 06-29-2005, 12:26 PM

I was pretty disappointed Rudd didn't go up against Beazley as well. I guess he knew he didn't have the numbers, but he's our local guy here in BrisVegas and I only ever hear good stuff about him.

spindles · 06-29-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlishsguy

as for the liberals..although my stomach turns at the though of mr costello..i must admit they he has done a great job with the economy..although we've paid a heavy price with our taxes have we not?

Costello has down fuck all with the economy. The Lib government is in the position they are in because of Paul Keating, who had the guts as treasurer and PM to do what was needed to point this country's economy in the right direction. I found this interview with Keating to be quite interesting.

And all Howard and Costello are doing now with industrial relations is to try and grab more power for themselves, not do anything useful.

Ragbags · 06-30-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ella

...and many other Labour supporters ....

Not quite die-hard enough to spell Labor correctly though.

Ella · 06-30-2005, 01:41 PM

Picky shit, hey.

Note to self...don't post after working a 12 hour day.

cinnles · 06-30-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frought

Don't you think Costello has a soul, where Howard is lacking any sense of principle or social justice? I think the liberal party would be a very different beast under Costello compared to Howard - bring it on!

I think Costello is more of an extremist economic rationalist than John Howard. Howard is just a pure politician, but I think Costello really does lack any insight into anything beyond economics.

Try and gear a society for pure economic advantage, I'd hate to think of the social consequences.

dlish · 07-01-2005, 12:01 AM

spindles..id have to agree that yeah it may be the case..the economy was bound to rebound at any minute..it would have happened with labor at the realm at some stage. i think of that often.. but who knows..after the hawke and keating years and all the attitude keating gave, i think people just got sick of it.

as for industrial relations.. coming from a construction background, i dread the days when labor comes back to power because the unions become that much stronger that they cripple the building trade with so much IR shit, that the whole economy slows down too. its a well kown fact that the aussie economy does well when the building trade is doing well. labor just seems to hinder its progress.

and yes, i tend to skew towards labour mainly because of social justice more thana nything else. howard has no heart

almostaugust · 07-01-2005, 06:10 AM

Im more worried about Beazley myself. I wish he'd commit to a rollback of this IR legislation that Honest John is trying to bring about.

Leo · 07-06-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almostaugust

Im more worried about Beazley myself. I wish he'd commit to a rollback of this IR legislation that Honest John is trying to bring about.

They won't roll it back unless they're completely clueless. Unitary IR legislation's long overdue. Labor knows it, Democrats know it, Libs know it. Gough thought so in '72. Crean thought so when he was in the ACTU. Murray (Democrats) has always been a supporter of the idea. They just fight about the content, not the concept. Behind closed doors Labor will be rubbing their hands with glee - every federal govt since federation has wanted its hands on a unitary IR system, and after Howard pushes the reforms through, Labor will eventually get their chance. It's just a matter of time. Besides, Howard's just continuing what Hawke & Keating began in '93 (IR Reform Act). Differece is that under Hawke/Keating, real wages rose a pathetic 1.2% in 13 years. During the Howard years real wages have risen 14% since '96. But never let the facts get in the way of a sensational headline. Fact is Australian working conditions have never been better. There are some negative aspects to the proposals (eg all workers should have access to unfair dismissal claims). But I give the guy credit - at least he's showing the leadership and guts needed to push through his vision regardless whether or not you agree with the proposals.

Mephisto2 · 07-06-2005, 06:45 AM

If by "give the guy credit", you are referring to Howard, then I think you're in the wrong thread.

We can debate "Honest John" (ROFL) and IR reform more appropriately in a different thread if you wish. I'd be happy to. :-)

Mr Mephisto

Leo · 07-06-2005, 06:57 AM

Happy to debate IR anywhere, anytime - well, almost

It's a big part of my job. I take your point re: the thread - only replied because IR's had a couple of mentions here.

I mean giving him credit for having the guts to push through his vision. I respect that in anyone regardless whether or not I agree with them.

Mephisto2 · 07-06-2005, 07:52 AM

OK, that came across snotty and I didn't mean it to.

No point in starting another Aussie politics thread!

What I don't like about Howard's proposed IR "reforms" is the simple fact that it introduces a two tier system. I work for a large company. My wife works for a small company. If we both get sacked "unfairly", then I can take them to court, but my wife cannot. Why? Simply based upon the size of her employer.

No matter how you frame it, that's unfair. There's no escaping that fact.

Plus, and according to everything (and I mean everything I've read, including pro government papers), there is NO evidence that diluting IR law will result in more jobs.

What Howard is doing, once again, is rewarding the rich to penalize the poor.

Mr Mephisto

almostaugust · 07-06-2005, 07:04 PM

Im also happy to discuss this on a different thread if you want. Coming from a (sometime) teacher's perspective i am very concerned about what these laws mean for education.

Leo · 07-08-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

OK, that came across snotty and I didn't mean it to

Mr Mephisto

That's cool - I realised you didn't mean it that way and you're totally right - it's way off the thread. Think I'll start a new one.

Ella · 09-16-2005, 12:03 AM

And hasn't the shit hit the proverbial with the Latham Diaries. Did anyone see him on 'Enough Rope?' He stuck the boot in good and proper. And Beazley's threatening legal action over comments in the book! The journos will get miles of column cms out of this one.....

Latch · 09-16-2005, 03:52 AM

I like how Beazley is trying (on one hand) to say "they're nothing, not worth our time" (not a direct quote) and then trying (on the other hand) to sue Latham for 'em.

ryfo · 09-16-2005, 05:00 AM

reminds me of my primary school days ......'did too....did not....did too....did not' sticks and stones may break your bones but mud slung always stix. Anyhow for one such as I that is disallusioned with all politicians, this is at least entertaining

Nimetic · 09-26-2005, 08:13 PM

Some awesome cartoons coming out of it. Did anyone see the "Insiders" on ABC, Sunday. I'm trying to find a copy of some of them.

I'd buy a copy - but I'm not sure I want to support that sort of thing.

spindles · 09-29-2005, 09:54 PM

I think all he has done (at least on viewing the enough rope interview) is confirm for me that just about all pollies are pricks. (both sides of politics)

It did come across as a real sour grapes kind of thing, especially considering where the party put him.

06-28-2005, 06:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Latham. Australia's last great hope or... asshole For someone who actually believed in Mark Latham, and what I thought was the potential he brought the party, I'm absolutely disenchanted with his comments (as reported in the SMH - http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...724631674.html) about Labor being a "lost cause" in Australia. His attitude stinks of sour grapes and common "piss headedness". Never again will I be seduced by the 'common man' who professes to stand for the Aussie worker/battler/liberal (LOWER case L)/socially conscious man... Jeez... I should have listened to my wife (a semi-regular Liberal voter) when she said he was a fuck-wit... Mr Mephisto

06-28-2005, 11:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	i was in the same boat as mr mephisto. i really did think he had the go-get-em attitude. i also thought he was a straightshooter before becoming labor party leader..then toned on his rhetoric..and now hes back with sour grapes. he still IS a straight shooter though, only thing is, he's shooting his load staight in his face. damn wanker. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

06-29-2005, 03:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	Ditto Mr Mephisto and dlishguy. I, like my folks and many other Labor supporters saw a real future for the party with Latham at the helm. Sure, he came in blazing with the taxi driver incident and the "conga line of suckholes" quip, but the pollies superannuation reforms were to be applauded. Not sure what happened....bad advice? Poor vision? Lack of motivation (especially after the crushing election defeat)? I'm a little disillusioned in the party at the moment, and I'm not all that thrilled with Beazley as a leader. Yet when I look at Howard's possible successor, I cringe with dismay. How are the Greens looking these days....? __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure." Last edited by Ella; 06-30-2005 at 01:40 PM..

06-29-2005, 03:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	or maybe the democrats? those greenies are a little wacko. that bob brown tree hugging lunatic with his commies as PM? wow now thats a new australia! although my fondest memory of mr latham would have to be the comment of "ass-licker" when referring to little johnny and his relationship with mr bush. as for labors future.. i think the only shining light in the party at the moment would have to be kevin rudd. had he taken the realms instead of latham back then, he may have done a better job, but these days who knows? beazly is past his best..his on again off again political career doesnt do justice to his party. as for the liberals..although my stomach turns at the though of mr costello..i must admit they he has done a great job with the economy..although we've paid a heavy price with our taxes have we not? did anyone say Greens? __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

06-29-2005, 03:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
frought Upright Location: Front room, first on the left, Sydney	I've always voted left of centre, and I would have very much preferred Latham as PM compared to Howard, but frankly, I've always thought he was a thug and a fuckwit. I've heard his rhetoric compared to Keating, but I don't think he was a pinch on Keating - Keating descended to the gutter to make some low (yet eloquent) blows, Latham never left (and never was eloquent). Agreed that Rudd is the future of Labor. When can that lad take power? Mind you, also surprised at some peoples lack of desire to have Costello succeed Howard. Don't you think Costello has a soul, where Howard is lacking any sense of principle or social justice? I think the liberal party would be a very different beast under Costello compared to Howard - bring it on! Had Costello been running against Latham, for the first time ever I would've preferenced Libs over Labor. All my first prefs run to the Greens, of course. Glad somebody has some decent social, environmental, and other policies. Democrats, sadly, are a dead duck. __________________ perl -e 'use Inline C=>q{void frought(){printf("I must be boondoggling again\n");}};frought'

06-28-2005, 09:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
cinnles Addict	still better than beazley or creen if you ask me.

06-29-2005, 04:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
aKula Psycho	Yeah the democrats self destructed, that was a shame really. Ditto on your thoughts about Latham and Rudd. I was dissapointed with the last election, the campaigns consisted of throwing around money, instead of actually discussing some coherent policy.

06-29-2005, 12:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	I was pretty disappointed Rudd didn't go up against Beazley as well. I guess he knew he didn't have the numbers, but he's our local guy here in BrisVegas and I only ever hear good stuff about him. __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

06-30-2005, 01:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	Picky shit, hey. Note to self...don't post after working a 12 hour day. __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

07-01-2005, 12:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	spindles..id have to agree that yeah it may be the case..the economy was bound to rebound at any minute..it would have happened with labor at the realm at some stage. i think of that often.. but who knows..after the hawke and keating years and all the attitude keating gave, i think people just got sick of it. as for industrial relations.. coming from a construction background, i dread the days when labor comes back to power because the unions become that much stronger that they cripple the building trade with so much IR shit, that the whole economy slows down too. its a well kown fact that the aussie economy does well when the building trade is doing well. labor just seems to hinder its progress. and yes, i tend to skew towards labour mainly because of social justice more thana nything else. howard has no heart __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-01-2005, 06:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
almostaugust Junkie Location: Oz	Im more worried about Beazley myself. I wish he'd commit to a rollback of this IR legislation that Honest John is trying to bring about. __________________ 'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe Maybe this year will be better than the last I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself To hold on to these moments as they pass'

07-06-2005, 06:45 AM	#17 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	If by "give the guy credit", you are referring to Howard, then I think you're in the wrong thread. We can debate "Honest John" (ROFL) and IR reform more appropriately in a different thread if you wish. I'd be happy to. :-) Mr Mephisto

07-06-2005, 06:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
Leo Tilted	Happy to debate IR anywhere, anytime - well, almost It's a big part of my job. I take your point re: the thread - only replied because IR's had a couple of mentions here. I mean giving him credit for having the guts to push through his vision. I respect that in anyone regardless whether or not I agree with them.

07-06-2005, 07:52 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	OK, that came across snotty and I didn't mean it to. No point in starting another Aussie politics thread! What I don't like about Howard's proposed IR "reforms" is the simple fact that it introduces a two tier system. I work for a large company. My wife works for a small company. If we both get sacked "unfairly", then I can take them to court, but my wife cannot. Why? Simply based upon the size of her employer. No matter how you frame it, that's unfair. There's no escaping that fact. Plus, and according to everything (and I mean everything I've read, including pro government papers), there is NO evidence that diluting IR law will result in more jobs. What Howard is doing, once again, is rewarding the rich to penalize the poor. Mr Mephisto

07-06-2005, 07:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
almostaugust Junkie Location: Oz	Im also happy to discuss this on a different thread if you want. Coming from a (sometime) teacher's perspective i am very concerned about what these laws mean for education. __________________ 'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe Maybe this year will be better than the last I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself To hold on to these moments as they pass'

09-16-2005, 12:03 AM	#22 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	And hasn't the shit hit the proverbial with the Latham Diaries. Did anyone see him on 'Enough Rope?' He stuck the boot in good and proper. And Beazley's threatening legal action over comments in the book! The journos will get miles of column cms out of this one..... __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

09-16-2005, 03:52 AM	#23 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	I like how Beazley is trying (on one hand) to say "they're nothing, not worth our time" (not a direct quote) and then trying (on the other hand) to sue Latham for 'em.

09-16-2005, 05:00 AM	#24 (permalink)
ryfo Psycho Location: melbourne australia	reminds me of my primary school days ......'did too....did not....did too....did not' sticks and stones may break your bones but mud slung always stix. Anyhow for one such as I that is disallusioned with all politicians, this is at least entertaining

09-26-2005, 08:13 PM	#25 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	Some awesome cartoons coming out of it. Did anyone see the "Insiders" on ABC, Sunday. I'm trying to find a copy of some of them. I'd buy a copy - but I'm not sure I want to support that sort of thing.

09-29-2005, 09:54 PM	#26 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	I think all he has done (at least on viewing the enough rope interview) is confirm for me that just about all pollies are pricks. (both sides of politics) It did come across as a real sour grapes kind of thing, especially considering where the party put him. __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?