Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > Tilted Fun Zone


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-18-2005, 05:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
Sticky's Avatar
 
Tories to support budget but try to topple gov't

Who said Canadian Politics was not interesting?
possibly me


Tories to support budget but try to topple gov't
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...hub=topstories

"It's our intention to support Bill C-43, the original budget," Harper said after an emergency caucus meeting Tuesday night, hours after high-profile MP Belinda Stronach defected to the Liberals.

"We'll oppose Bill C-48, which was the deal with the NDP, which is complete irresponsible fiscal policy," Harper added.


I did not even consider that fact that thoes were 2 separate bills. This is actually a very good idea.

You know what would be hysterical? If C-43 is voted on first and passes and then the Liberals themselves shoot down C-48. That would be a laugh. Unlikely though.
__________________
Sticky The Stickman
Sticky is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 05:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Quote:
"We'll oppose Bill C-48, which was the deal with the NDP, which is complete irresponsible fiscal policy,"
He just can't stand the fact that the NDP were the only party that handled this crisis well. Layton (love him or hate him) was the only one of the four leaders that comes out of all of this looking level-headed and willing to compromise to keep the country moving forward (rather than forcing us to spend 250million or so on yet another election that will most like not change things all that much).


Tax cuts are just as expensive as the spending that will be done instead.

On one side you have a Corporate Tax cut that will remove a strand of revenue from the coffers BUT could generate job growth...

On the other side you maintain the current tax rate but spend money on social infrastructure that could make Canada a more appealing place to do business...


BOTH cost money and ultimately attempt to achieve the same goals.


Personally, I just don't buy the need for Corporate Tax cuts... but then I am just a lousy socialist...
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 06:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
Sticky's Avatar
 
There is something about Layton that I just can't pin-point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
willing to compromise to keep the country moving forward
Willing to keep the country moving forward? Yes
Willing to compromise? He did not compromise. He got what he wanted. He did not even need to compromise. The Liberals needed him and they would have given him almost anything he wanted.
__________________
Sticky The Stickman
Sticky is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 06:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Jack's OK... like I've said before, he has been my municipal candidate for years. I seen him speak quite a few times and have met him one on one a few times as well. He does have a certain "slickness" to him but one thing I can say is that he has a lot of good ideas and has brokered more compromises than any other politician I can think of... (you had to see him in action in the Lastman days in Toronto...).

Let me put it this way... if Layton were a Liberal he would likely be the next PM.


You are are right, that he didn't exactly compromise in his offer to Martin. If compromised at all it was in that he didn't ask for *everything* just what he wanted most.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 06:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
Sticky's Avatar
 
Now, Lastman, he is another charachter.

Layton, Liberal? PM? Scary, but everyone else is defecting so why not.
Now let me ask you 2 questions.
If layton were to defect just so that he could line himself up for PM would you lose an respect for him?
Did you lose any respect for Belinda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
You are are right, that he didn't exactly compromise in his offer to Martin. If compromised at all it was in that he didn't ask for *everything* just what he wanted most.
I agree completely. I don't like him, but he is another good politician. He probably made it very easy on Martin in bringing it rigth to the line where Martin would not even think of rejecting it.
__________________
Sticky The Stickman
Sticky is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 06:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
You really can't compare Stronach to Layton...

Stronach doesn't have the histroy that Layton has. She is a political neophyte compared to Layton. If Layton were to make that sort of leap, I *would* lose respect for him but not for the same reasons that people are jumping all over Stronach.

Layton would be going against years and years of political positioning. He would never survive the move.

Stronach's move... comes off as opportunistic and naive. She really doesn't have the years of building a politcal reputation and platform that Layton does. She *may* recover from this yet and come out stronger than ever. As I've said before, the current liberal party is *way* more like the PC party of old the current Conservative Party. She could thrive in this environment. The spinning continues... on one hand we have the fanning of flames that paint her as a "dipstick", "someone we'd like to fuck", "opportunistic", "daddy's little politician"... all quite degrading. I don't know enough about her to judge her completely yet. I am in a wait and see what she does now. If she can shrug off the slings and arrows who knows... All it will take is for her to prove a competent Minister in Government to make all of that diminish into sour grapes... of course she could just prove everyone right. Like I said, wait and see... time will tell.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 07:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
Junk
 
I think this move on the Tories part to support the budget, if it comes to that, is a brilliant political move. Instead of the Tories breaking their backs to dig a grave for the Liberals, they finally figured out that the Liberals are quite capable of digging their own grave.

Rather than shutting down the House and getting blamed for everything under the sun, they can just play their cards and frustrate the Liberals when it comes to motions in the House, and of course for the betterment of Canada. I can see it now. Yes the Tories agree with this but not that. Especially when it comes to the Atlantic Provinces Pact. (or whatever it is called) The Tories support it unconditionally but the Liberals only did so because they were set to lose votes. Now Martin has to come through on an election promise that was made simply for him to win the election, that's it. If that doesn't go through, we'll be hearing from Danny William's loud and clear again.

Was it Carl Jung who said where one door closes, another opens. I think that the Tories are going to crucify Stronach and embarrass and humilate Martin. Why rush in to do someone in when you can slowly kill them. Or let them slowly kill themselves. I may be the only one here that thinks this, but I think it was a huge mistake for Martin to do what he did. And I'm sure there is one or more loyal Liberal backbenchers with loads of experience that aren't that happy that a turncoat political rookie get's a plum portfolio position.

As much as I hated Chretien, he his probably slicing his drives off the tee box so far out of sight just because he can't stop laughing at Martin's move. How do you take the top bureaucrat in the country, have any confidence in him when he elevates someone into a position that just months ago was saying he is 'morally bankrupted' and a 'desperate' man.

Now if we could just bury the spin doctors for all parties and let the electorate decide for themselves rather than the other way around
__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.
OFKU0 is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 02:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
Upright
 
If Layton was elected PM, I would leave, simple as.

What we don't need is a treehugging uber-liberal calling the shots.

Frankly, I can't think of anyone on the Federal scene I would really want in the big chair. The only one who comes to mind is Ralph Klein.
__________________
TC
01TC is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 03:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
Comedian
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
Location: Use the search button
Quote:
Originally Posted by OFKU0
Was it Carl Jung who said where one door closes, another opens. I think that the Tories are going to crucify Stronach and embarrass and humilate Martin. Why rush in to do someone in when you can slowly kill them. Or let them slowly kill themselves. I may be the only one here that thinks this, but I think it was a huge mistake for Martin to do what he did. And I'm sure there is one or more loyal Liberal backbenchers with loads of experience that aren't that happy that a turncoat political rookie get's a plum portfolio position.
I never gave the "loyal liberal backbencher just got shafted too" idea much thought.

You are absolutely right. Perfect logic. There are some pissed off politicians on the liberal side too, and this may push them over the edge!

If I had busted my ass for a company and remained loyal through thick and thin, only to get pushed aside for some "flavour of the month" publicity stunt, I would lose it.

What do you guys think would have happened if Martin phoned up Harper and said "Stronach is trying to defect to our side. You might want to hang her out to dry..."? And then let her face the pack of wolves (I use that term with affection, and mean no disrespect) as she tries to explain her move before it happened? I think the damage that would have happened to the PC's internally would have helped the liberals alot more than this Short-Gain-Long-Pain scenario.
__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.
BigBen is offline  
Old 05-18-2005, 07:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen931

What do you guys think would have happened if Martin phoned up Harper and said "Stronach is trying to defect to our side. You might want to hang her out to dry..."?
The only thing I can think of in reply to your response is this. I doubt that could happen but if it did, it would be of mutual interest given both sides don't particularily feel she is the sharpest knife in the drawer. But she could be a pain in the ass. That's one reason to begin the process of phasing her out. Face it . She was pissed. Run for the leadership, lose, and be a backbencher. No way.

Deals are made every hour on the Hill. Tories back off, let the Liberals suffer more (don't worry, they won't lose next time) and all is normal. Happens everyday. When it is time for the Tories to take over, they will. What goes around, comes around. Cyclical and unfairly fair.
__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.
OFKU0 is offline  
 

Tags
budget, govt, support, topple, tories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:33 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360