Sticky

Who said Canadian Politics was not interesting?
possibly me


Tories to support budget but try to topple gov't
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...hub=topstories

"It's our intention to support Bill C-43, the original budget," Harper said after an emergency caucus meeting Tuesday night, hours after high-profile MP Belinda Stronach defected to the Liberals.

"We'll oppose Bill C-48, which was the deal with the NDP, which is complete irresponsible fiscal policy," Harper added.

I did not even consider that fact that thoes were 2 separate bills. This is actually a very good idea.

You know what would be hysterical? If C-43 is voted on first and passes and then the Liberals themselves shoot down C-48. That would be a laugh. Unlikely though.

__________________
Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

He just can't stand the fact that the NDP were the only party that handled this crisis well. Layton (love him or hate him) was the only one of the four leaders that comes out of all of this looking level-headed and willing to compromise to keep the country moving forward (rather than forcing us to spend 250million or so on yet another election that will most like not change things all that much).


Tax cuts are just as expensive as the spending that will be done instead.

On one side you have a Corporate Tax cut that will remove a strand of revenue from the coffers BUT could generate job growth...

On the other side you maintain the current tax rate but spend money on social infrastructure that could make Canada a more appealing place to do business...


BOTH cost money and ultimately attempt to achieve the same goals.


Personally, I just don't buy the need for Corporate Tax cuts... but then I am just a lousy socialist...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

There is something about Layton that I just can't pin-point.

Willing to keep the country moving forward? Yes
Willing to compromise? He did not compromise. He got what he wanted. He did not even need to compromise. The Liberals needed him and they would have given him almost anything he wanted.

__________________
Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

Jack's OK... like I've said before, he has been my municipal candidate for years. I seen him speak quite a few times and have met him one on one a few times as well. He does have a certain "slickness" to him but one thing I can say is that he has a lot of good ideas and has brokered more compromises than any other politician I can think of... (you had to see him in action in the Lastman days in Toronto...).

Let me put it this way... if Layton were a Liberal he would likely be the next PM.


You are are right, that he didn't exactly compromise in his offer to Martin. If compromised at all it was in that he didn't ask for *everything* just what he wanted most.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

Now, Lastman, he is another charachter.

Layton, Liberal? PM? Scary, but everyone else is defecting so why not.
Now let me ask you 2 questions.
If layton were to defect just so that he could line himself up for PM would you lose an respect for him?
Did you lose any respect for Belinda?

I agree completely. I don't like him, but he is another good politician. He probably made it very easy on Martin in bringing it rigth to the line where Martin would not even think of rejecting it.

__________________
Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

You really can't compare Stronach to Layton...

Stronach doesn't have the histroy that Layton has. She is a political neophyte compared to Layton. If Layton were to make that sort of leap, I *would* lose respect for him but not for the same reasons that people are jumping all over Stronach.

Layton would be going against years and years of political positioning. He would never survive the move.

Stronach's move... comes off as opportunistic and naive. She really doesn't have the years of building a politcal reputation and platform that Layton does. She *may* recover from this yet and come out stronger than ever. As I've said before, the current liberal party is *way* more like the PC party of old the current Conservative Party. She could thrive in this environment. The spinning continues... on one hand we have the fanning of flames that paint her as a "dipstick", "someone we'd like to fuck", "opportunistic", "daddy's little politician"... all quite degrading. I don't know enough about her to judge her completely yet. I am in a wait and see what she does now. If she can shrug off the slings and arrows who knows... All it will take is for her to prove a competent Minister in Government to make all of that diminish into sour grapes... of course she could just prove everyone right. Like I said, wait and see... time will tell.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

OFKU0

I think this move on the Tories part to support the budget, if it comes to that, is a brilliant political move. Instead of the Tories breaking their backs to dig a grave for the Liberals, they finally figured out that the Liberals are quite capable of digging their own grave.

Rather than shutting down the House and getting blamed for everything under the sun, they can just play their cards and frustrate the Liberals when it comes to motions in the House, and of course for the betterment of Canada. I can see it now. Yes the Tories agree with this but not that. Especially when it comes to the Atlantic Provinces Pact. (or whatever it is called) The Tories support it unconditionally but the Liberals only did so because they were set to lose votes. Now Martin has to come through on an election promise that was made simply for him to win the election, that's it. If that doesn't go through, we'll be hearing from Danny William's loud and clear again.

Was it Carl Jung who said where one door closes, another opens. I think that the Tories are going to crucify Stronach and embarrass and humilate Martin. Why rush in to do someone in when you can slowly kill them. Or let them slowly kill themselves. I may be the only one here that thinks this, but I think it was a huge mistake for Martin to do what he did. And I'm sure there is one or more loyal Liberal backbenchers with loads of experience that aren't that happy that a turncoat political rookie get's a plum portfolio position.

As much as I hated Chretien, he his probably slicing his drives off the tee box so far out of sight just because he can't stop laughing at Martin's move. How do you take the top bureaucrat in the country, have any confidence in him when he elevates someone into a position that just months ago was saying he is 'morally bankrupted' and a 'desperate' man.

Now if we could just bury the spin doctors for all parties and let the electorate decide for themselves rather than the other way around

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

01TC

If Layton was elected PM, I would leave, simple as.

What we don't need is a treehugging uber-liberal calling the shots.

Frankly, I can't think of anyone on the Federal scene I would really want in the big chair. The only one who comes to mind is Ralph Klein.

__________________
TC

BigBen

I never gave the "loyal liberal backbencher just got shafted too" idea much thought.

You are absolutely right. Perfect logic. There are some pissed off politicians on the liberal side too, and this may push them over the edge!

If I had busted my ass for a company and remained loyal through thick and thin, only to get pushed aside for some "flavour of the month" publicity stunt, I would lose it.

What do you guys think would have happened if Martin phoned up Harper and said "Stronach is trying to defect to our side. You might want to hang her out to dry..."? And then let her face the pack of wolves (I use that term with affection, and mean no disrespect) as she tries to explain her move before it happened? I think the damage that would have happened to the PC's internally would have helped the liberals alot more than this Short-Gain-Long-Pain scenario.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

OFKU0

The only thing I can think of in reply to your response is this. I doubt that could happen but if it did, it would be of mutual interest given both sides don't particularily feel she is the sharpest knife in the drawer. But she could be a pain in the ass. That's one reason to begin the process of phasing her out. Face it . She was pissed. Run for the leadership, lose, and be a backbencher. No way.

Deals are made every hour on the Hill. Tories back off, let the Liberals suffer more (don't worry, they won't lose next time) and all is normal. Happens everyday. When it is time for the Tories to take over, they will. What goes around, comes around. Cyclical and unfairly fair.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.