scott_p_1

How does everybody else feel about Bush's Canadian visit? It seems like it's going to be pretty high profile.

He's coming to my hometown (Halifax) Wednesday morning, and might actually be driving by my apartment building to get to his destination (I overlook one of the main roads in Halifax). I've already seen quite a few posters from different groups organizing protests. I've also seen that they're setting up a very large area outside just for the protesters.

Despite my dislike for Bush, I do hope that everything is peaceful and doesn't turn out to be as big a deal as I'm thinking. I, personally, am going to stay away from the protests, but mostly just because I'm worried about what could happen.

I'm not really sure why he's decided to come to Halifax, other than to thank some of the families that took in stranded travellers on 9/11. I think it's a little late for that though. That was years ago now.

the_marq

Meh, show him the respect that he is due and leave it at that. Jeez, we can't even pour him a pint of Keith's since he quite drinking.

I hope we don't embarass ourselves with some outta control protest. A protest that would accomplish nothing most likely.

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Suave

I hope he gets attacked and eaten by a rabid lobster.

silent_jay

I hope it is peaceful, but I also hope Canada's displeasure with Bush is voiced. No use hiding it from the man.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Fly

couldn't have said it any better jay.

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BASTARD

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lukethebandgeek

Yeah, and we Americans are going to voice our displeasure of the Canadian president, or prime minister, or queen, or whatever you have.

(Truthfully though, I don't know the name of the President, but I think it's Paul Martin.)

I just came back from the great friendly north, and I found that most people know more american polotics than Canadian. I found that interesting.

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Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be.

So I like Chrono... So what?

WillyPete

You don't live in a book depository do you?

Watch out, if he died there, it would be about enough reason to have Canada invaded.

Daoust

You're right lukethebandgeek, we do know more about American politics than you know about Canada, and it's President Paul Martin (lol)

I truly hope that the Bush visit is not marred by unfortunate acts spurred on by the protesting. I personally don't protest, but that's me. If you want to protest, do it, but don't do something stupid. Bush is coming here to start a new relationship with Canada. Chretien did all he could to cool off Can-Am relations, so at least with Martin there is hope that we can begin a new chapter of openness and communication. We need the border opened to softwood lumber and beef, so we need to suck a little cock to make that happen.

I don't think Bush is a bad guy. I do think that many Canadians only hate Bush because the American media told them to and they bought it.

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I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
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WillyPete

You know Dubya's only visiting to collect the gays and take them back for review by homeland security, right?


:P

vox_rox

Hey, you know, I think CSIS is recruiting a second shooter. Does Halifax have any grassy knolls, or do we re-write history with a rocky knool?

Pierre

Mango

So, what, put a bullet in him. The guy is a fucking prick. I only hope that one day he gets his.

I hope there are lots of ranchers and loggers out there to get in his face.

silent_jay

Many Canadians may hate him for the reason you stated, but the vast majority of Canadians hate the man for what he stands for and for what America is turning into.

Maybe the US doesn't notice that it all went tits up for them the minute they decided to invade Iraq. They had support for Afghanistan but ole W got greedy and wanted to get the man who "tried to kill his daddy", the man deserves everything he gets and more.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

silent_jay

Thanks fly, I'll be at the protests this afternoon protesting that stupid bastard, and I hope the trouble makers stay away, I don't want to end up in jail, or Guantanimo Bay.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

splck

Can you pass this on to him jay...thanks.


Note to our American friends... this is for your dolt leader, not to you or your country.

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nice line eh?

OFKU0

He is in Ottawa today and so far everything is peaceful. Was to go downtown to pick up some stuff but it is a zoo.

I hope everything goes smoothly and without incident. Alot of people dislike the man for whatever ever reasons but alot people like me dislike Paul Martin. I'm no fan of Bush but it is something we have to deal with.

As for the protestors, I hope they took notice of peaceful assembly in the Ukraine this past week and learned something from it. I support the right to protest but if they start smashing windows and defacing property I think they should be shot on sight. Either that or have a black mark on their record so bad that getting a loan, buy a home, securing employment etc,.. would be so difficult that they would wish they thought twice about the adolescent behaviour.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

silent_jay

Not a problem splck, I'll be sure to pass that on to him.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Yakk

The Queen is the Head of State. Technically, the Queen of Canada, through her representative, the Governor General, is the single most powerful person in Canada. The Queen's (and GG's) powers make the US president look like a figurehead.

The Governor General is Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson. (official title)

The Queen is Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. (official title)

The GG (and Queen) never use their powers, other than at the behest of the government. The last time the GG used his theoretical power was over 100 years ago, I believe.

Two examples of the GG's/Queens power includes the ability to veto any bill, and the ability to dissolve parliament (causing an election) at will.

The head of government in Canada is the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the head of the party which the GG has chosen to form the government (normally the largest party in the house of commons, with few exceptions -- there are traditions). Practically, the Prime Minister, if the head of a strong majority government, is much more powerful than the US president. Theoretically, the PM's only powers are derived by the consent of the Members of Parliament.

Traditionally, the GG uses her powers when the government loses confidence (and either chooses a new government, or dissolves parliament), or when the PM asks her to dissolve parliament (there is a traditional ritual -- the PM walks from his house to the GG's house, they chat, and after a bit the GG announces that, on the request of the PM, parliament has been dissolved).

The PM is Paul Martin.

Canadian politics are pretty simple.
There are 5 or so parties.
The Conservative/Reform/Alliance/name-of-the-week party. This party is mostly a western regional party (in terms of seats), but has recently consumed the corpse of one of the traditional national parties (in fact, the party of Canada's first PM) and gained in power that way.

The Bloc Quebecios. This is a seperatist party from the provice of Quebec. The majority of Quebec doesn't want to seperate, but they elect seperatists anyhow.

The New Democratic Party. A left wing party. National base, usually between 5 and 50 seats elected in a 300-odd house.

The Liberal Party. This is the current minority government party. Until recently it had held majority control for over a decade. It's political support is, well, everywhere the other parties aren't: Ontario, the East Coast, contests with the reform-varients on the west coast and in the praries, and contests with the Bloc in Quebec.

Right now, Canadian politics are in an interesting state. A non-coalition minority government. In order for parliament to pass any bill, the liberals need the support of either the Bloc or the Conservative party. Alternatively, Liberals + NDP + a few Bloc/Conservative line-crossers can pass a bill.

Voting along party lines is almost a given in the Canadian parliamentary system.

Like I said, simple.

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lukethebandgeek

Thanks for all the helpful correctness and such. I don't like to be ignorant of things.

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Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be.

So I like Chrono... So what?

OFKU0

Well you could have put money on some protesters acting like idiot's. That's pretty much par for the course. I wonder if Halifax will step up to challenge and embarrass Canada also.

Does anyone wonder why these protesters put so much time and effort regarding Bush when that time could be spent protesting our own corrupt government? I guess it's easier finding foreign leaders to protest than the ones we have at home. Makes me wonder.
------------------------------------------------
Anti-war protesters clash with police in Ottawa
CTV.ca News Staff

Protesters clashed with riot police in Ottawa briefly on Tuesday in a break from what has been for the most part a calm, orderly demonstration.

Scuffles between protesters and police broke out as demonstrators tried to cross a bridge and were held back by a line of police in riot gear.

Some protesters threw placards, sticks, pumpkins and water bottles at police. One officer, who didn't appear to be seriously injured, could be seen being helped away from the police line.

A few protesters were shown on TV being arrested.

The standoff occurred on Wellington Street, next to the Chateau Laurier hotel in downtown Ottawa, only a stone's throw from Parliament Hill.

The protest comes on the first day of U.S. President George Bush's official 26-hour visit that will take him to the nation's capital and Halifax.

During an early afternoon news conference with Prime Minister Paul Martin, Bush said he was pleased with the welcome he received Tuesday morning.

"I want to thank the Canadian people who came out to wave -- with all five fingers -- for their hospitality," he said with a chuckle.

As many as 15,000 activists are expected to turn out for protests in Ottawa. Organizers say they'll vent their frustration about the war in Iraq and American plans for an anti-missile defence shield.

The largest demonstrations appear to be coordinated by the "No to Bush! Committee," which is planning a candlelight vigil on Parliament Hill at 5 p.m. ET.

In an interview with CTV's Rosemary Thompson, protest organizer Joe Cressy said a diverse group of demonstrators are determined to make their voices heard.

"While we may not be in the same room as Bush you can rest assured he and (Prime Minister) Paul Martin will hear our message and have to respond appropriately."

Other groups organizing protests Tuesday include the Raging Grannies, Artists Against War and even Belly Dancers Against Bush.

Props will include an "Unwelcome Mat", a four-and-a-half-metre effigy of Bush, and a statue of the U.S.
President that will be toppled, much like the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue in Baghdad in April, 2003.

Cressy says NDP Leader Jack Layton, former Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish and a representative of the Bloc Quebecois will address protesters at the late afternoon rally.



http://g.msn.com/0US!s6.73430_734763/2.a7371/2??cm=CTVNews

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Bill O'Rights

We noticed. Or, at least, a lot of us did.
...understood.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

jakewesier

Yeah I was thinking of maybe going to catch a glimpse of the motorcade if there is one tomorrow in the Fax. But I am otherwise busy.

I don't like Bush as but in the end he's standing up for conservative views of the United States and obviously that means something because we won the election. We as canadians are socialists (generally) and Bush is not a socialist. He opposes most of what we are starting to accept.

So what? It takes all kinds. Would I have voted for W? Hell no. I watched the election coverage and figured that he would be re-elected since everyone around me was pro-kerry. American politics are not an interest of mine. However it's impossible to avoid it.

Still it is nice to see that he's stopping here at least to finally say thanks for our contribution to helping those stranded on 9/11. better late then never.

Would have rathered Kerry thank us though.

Scott: What street are they coming down? Because I'll be PISSED if i am delayed to work because of his security needs

scott_p_1

Jake: I heard today that he might be coming in by helicoptor now. Nobody is willing to confirm anything for (obvious) security reasons. He's coming from the airport to pier 21. So I'd bet money on him going down Coming across the bridge, going down Barrington, taking the Hollis St. exit and the going pretty much straight there. Either way, if you're working anywhere in Halifax, there's a good chance you'll be delayed. I'd say leave early. You won't know until tommorow morning if it screws up morning traffic.

Once again, let's all hope for a peaceful protest. Unfortunately, it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch, and a dozen or so morons can make the whole nation look bad unfortunately.

Rdr4evr

ditto....I don't think the man deserves any respect, president or not, karma will eventually hit him hard.

JustDisGuy

You know, personally I have no use for the man or his policies but as a Canadian I have to say I'm ashamed that we've elected a parliament full of members who cannot be trusted to give the President of the United States of America the appropriate level of deference and respect. We don't have to respect the man, but as the leader of the world's dominant super-power and our nearest neighbor and ally you would think that we could respect his office.

Softwood lumber? Canadian live beef? The only thing that's going to change these issues ahead of WTO/NAFTA schedule is full support for the Yankee war in Iraq. I don't think that's worth it, personally. We just need to investigate alternate markets and learn to become less dependant on the US market. The Chinese can take all of our export market and more. Make them competitors for limited goods and see where that gets us in trade relations. I also think that we're going to end up with a value-added capacity that the instigators of these trade actions will rue when our finished goods start rolling across the border.

Protest the President? Bah. He doesn't give a fuck what we think, and why should he? At least a welcome in the House of Commons would have put him on happy, touchy-feeling footing for a brief time but thanks to the morons we elected, we don't even have that.

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"Act as if the future of the universe depends on what you do, while laughing at yourself for thinking that your actions make any difference."

Yakk

Or, fight fire with fire. The USA is breaking WTO and NAFTA agreements. So, hit them back just as hard. Cut oil exports. We are the largest supplier of energy to the USA in the world.

There is little sign that support for Yankee military action gives Canada any leverage. Those trade disputes predate the Afghanistan action, for which Canada was a major supporter. Hell, Canada had more forces supporting the USA Iraq war simply due to force exchanges than did many of the countries that officially supported the USA.

I agree. The House of Commons should show one face to Bush, and another to the people of Canada. He shouldn't be all that hard to fool, just kow tow to him, and he'll be molified. We should build up a trade and military deterant sufficient to deal with American threat, while speaking and acting on the surface deferentially.

Building up alliances outside of NAFTA sounds like a good idea. Possibly we should be sending high muckity-mucks to various places (like, sending the GG on a goodwill tour of Northern nations, or large trade missions to China or India) to encourage trade. Who would object to that?

A few nuclear weapons should be enough to defend against military threats by the USA. In reality, we have the knowledge and materials to build them. In the event that things chill off between us, we should be able to manufacture some nukes. What we need to work on is delivery systems. The oppertunity to get into the American missile-defence system on the ground floor shouldn't be ignored. Missiles that can intercept missiles, and missiles that carry payloads, are not that different a technology.

This message broght to you by the CCC (Committee for Canadian Conquest). 95% of our population is already massed within a few km of the American border -- they will never suspect a thing.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Janey

WRT to Canadians being socialist. I wonder if this is really accurate. I myself am a small business person. I hear that our economy runs on the small business person. I feel that I am very fiscally conservative. My money is hard earned, and frugally spent. But I also co-opt the government into performing what I hope and expect are the functions required to ensure that people in this country do not suffer undo hardship. Towards this end, I pay personal tax, and corporate tax to help support a universal healthcare system, welfare system and a decent educational system.

I do believe that the US has a similar set of values. Our politics may be centrist when compared to the behemoth of the current American administration, but I don't think that it is enough to call us a socialist country. We do have strong social values, and we do recognize that inorder to fund large scale pragrammes such as healthcare, it would behoove us to enlist the aid of the government as a partner. I think that the alternative (corporate/private sector) would more likely follow the laws of economics, which may not necessarily have the individual benefits of the populace at the forefront.

As for Bush's visit, I am appalled at the simplistic, and irresponsible media coverage on the part of CNN. I thought that they were respectible. If they get so hot under their collars about protests, somebody should explain to them that Canada is a FREE country, with inalienable rights enshrined in a charter, and we are expressing our right to protest, and to free speech.

Of all the country who's media should understand this perspecitve, you would think that CNN and/or FOX would be inthe forefront with this. I think it is a case of what good for US is only for US. Nobody else is allowed to have an opinion.

kulrblind

Just for the info of some Haligonians out there... GWB didn't arrive by helicopter, as you probably know if you listened to CBC this morning for the speeches. His motorcade came down the 102 / Bayers Rd, and went to Pier 21 that way. I couldn't tell you which peninsular streets he took.

Strange speech, I must say. Thanking Canadians for something we did three years ago, and not specifically for Americans (but in support of the American recovery effort after 9/11) seemed a little contrived. I think it was obvious he needed a reason not to spend two days in Ottawa and actually address Parliament.

Also, if anyone has an audio copy of the speech, I have a great drinking game. It involves the words "terror", "multilateral", "bilateral", "iraq", and "afghanistan". The mention of the "United Nations" warrants guzzling your beverage of choice on the spot.

OFKU0

That's funny. I do the same thing with Paul Martin. One chugged beer when he says, "in fact," and two chugged beers when he says, "in fact," when in fact it isn't a "fact."


http://g.msn.com/0US!s6.73430_734763/2.a7371/1??cm=CTVNews

It was indeed a productive meeting," Martin said. "In fact, we agreed to put forward an agenda in which our two nations will cooperate in a practical way towards common goals."

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Ace_O_Spades

Yakk, your ideas are all well and good

But speaking from an in I have in the lumber industry, China is one tough fuckin nut to crack trade-wise. They get most of their lumber imports from Russia. As for exporting beef anywhere besides the USA, I'm not exactly sure about the logistics or efficiency of sending them on ships en-masse.

I disagree with both of these. I think the HOC owes it to everyone to have solidarity in how they act. I don't know how it works with you, but someone who acts one way then another doesn't really garnish much respect from me.

As to proliferating nuclear arms... Its seems like a good idea on the surface... But do we really want that extra level of tension it would create? I think that would just complicate things.

It would also be interesting if the USA even LET us build them.

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Feh.

miyamotomusashi

I 2nd the rabid lobster attack. Fuck bush.

vox_rox

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If his politics are suspect, if he's a world terrorist, if he can't be trusted even as our neighbour, then why on earth should we respect him?

Defense? Respect? Just because he's a super power? Bullying people into respecting you is still bullying, and I will NEVER respect that man or that office while they continue to fill it with brainless maggots whose only agenda is dominaiton of every other nation on the planet.

Sorry, I cannot respect the American political machine. Americans on the other hand, are fine as huge numbers of Americans feel the same way I do, about their own government.

So do I feel ashamed? Nope. If Bush leaves and feels like Canadians hate him, I'm fine with that. It's not like an outpouring of love for this moron will open the borders to Canadian beef, or stop him and his butt-sucking cronies from beating up on our soft-wood producers, or our grain farmers. Love him or hate him, he's still a megalomaniac, and he'll still kick our asses whenever he wants, for no reason. So screw him, let him go away with a "kick me" sticker on his butt, I could care less what he thinks.

Pierre

silent_jay

Oh shit, I wish I could put a kick me sticker on that asshole.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Janey

I'm not sure which person you are referring to when you say asshole...

Yakk

I hope not! My ideas where a rapid spiral to the ridiculous.

Really, I'm not talking about lumber. I was talking about total trade. Lumber isn't small potatoes, but it isn't all that huge either.

One beef problem is we don't have the beef processing capabilities in Canada. We ship live beef to the USA to get processed.

The HOC isn't about solidarity.

I didn't mean act -- I meant speak. It works for Bush -- say one set of words and act another way. He's not that smart of a cookie.

Well, we already have the knowledge of how to build nuclear warheads, and the raw materials. We lack practice, testing and delivery tech.

Missile technology is tricky. Hence joining in the US-based missle defence agreement. Make certain we gain the ability to actually produce 'defensive' missiles (factories and/or engeneering jobs). I doubt the missile shield will be effective, but it is a way to improve our ability to use missiles.

We don't tell the USA we are doing it. Sheesh. At least until we are capable of hitting NYC from multiple fortified bunkers and/or mobile launchers.

What choice do we have but to take the US president at his word? He has stated that 'you are either with us, or against us'. Canada was unwilling to follow the USA into Iraq, which places us in the 'against the US' category. While I'm certain the USA has other targets to take out before Canada, we should be ready for when they decide they want our various natural resources, and/or need a war to boost their poll numbers.

This might be in 8 years, or 20+ years. The opinions of nations which aren't military threats to the USA has been shown to be irrelivent to those in power, if Canada wants a say in the world, we need a credible stick to back it up.

This post brought to you by the society for nuclear proliferation. Mutually Assured Destruction -- the only safe way to prevent a US invasion.

;-)

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

silent_jay

Bush, sorry I should have clarified that.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

PeaceFrog

I was proud to be a Haligonian today. I attended the protests this morning and there must have been a couple of thousand people there. It went off without a hitch and was completely peaceful, as all protests should be. I'm glad that we can voice our displeasure with President Bush and his policies in a mature, but powerful manner. The sense of unity was incredible. I hope we did Canada proud today in demonstrating that we are truly a peaceful nation.

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The only people for me are the mad ones...

vox_rox

So Janey, which would you choose to call asshole? Still bitter about my Toronto remark? Can't we all just be friends?

Really, you know what a serviette is, and poutine. We live in the same country. We live in the same geographic area (west). So? Can we be friends? Even if I don't like G.W.B.?

Don't answer right away, think about it and then we'll talk.

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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silent_jay

I think by Janey's location he lives in Toronto, unless you meant the West end of Toronto then disregard what I just typed.



Isn't it odd the amout of guys in here talking about how much we hate Bush? When I was a teengager I never thought I'd say I hate Bush, but hell I say it a few times a day now, and I still chuckle when I say it.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

scott_p_1

Glad to hear the protest went well, I was considering showing up last minute, but, last week of classes and all...

Charlatan

I can't believe I am out of country while all this is going on... such fun. I can say, that none of this has made the news in Singapore... and I haven't seen anything on CNN yet...

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke