Meridae'n

So, what is everyone's stance?

I know Kostya's, and would love to continue that discussion with everyone else involved. I believe that they are being held justly, but I realise this is just my opinion, and would like to think that I am not stupid enough to believe that I (and the majority) are completely correct.

This situation needs attention. We don't want them in our jails, and they sure as hell don't want to be there, but we can't just open our doors to anyone who has the money to pay Indonesian ferrymen... what to do, what to do

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Ella

Is there an answer to this issue? With a coastline so huge, and limited border protection, Australia is a prime target. We have set a precedent with immigrant migration in the past, accepting them into our community. Hell, we even had some Olympians who didn't want to leave!

The issue lies with their home country - the one they are fleeing from - and the opportunists who lie to them about safe passage to a welcoming country. And when they get here, we imprison them.

I dunno...aside from towing their unstable ship back into neutral waters (as they did with the 'children overboard' boat) and monitoring every mile of coastline, is there really an answer?

spindles

I think if you can't return them home, then you really shouldn't imprison them for life. I think that eventually they should be allowed to enter the community...

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Meridae'n

There is a huge misunderstanding in our community that these people are fleeing civil war/oppression/etc, but in reality the only people who can afford the exhorbitant fees these 'service providers' charge are professional people. These are not refugees, they are people who calculate and pay to get to our country illegally. In most cases alot of research is undertaken into our legal systems and media reactions to ensure the greatest chance of citizenship is attained, including 'buying' children from poverty stricken families to help their chances. Although I'm sure there are real refugee cases, believe me they're not the ones paying up to and above US$50,000 to be ferried to Christmas Island.

As with most things, education is the only real answer. The fact is that the people who are most to blame come from a country with scant regard for Australia, and a powerful hunger for quick money. Catch the people running these scams and shoot them.

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Meridae'n

@Spindles: I agree that we can't imprison these people indefinately, but we cannot send the message that this is a tennable way of becoming Australian, or we might as well get in on the action and ferry the bastards ourselves, cause the industry will go through the roof.

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

dbcb

i say send them to indonesia on the next boat, rickety or otherwise, must of them claim they are being oppressed because their muslims, well how many muslims are in indonesia, they just are lying because indonesia is a shithole compared to oz, if they sink outside australia tough luck, they shouldnt have come here anyway, true refugees are those from countries like zimbabwe, getting genocided by black war "veterans" whilst the eu does nothing.

slimshaydee

if you cant get in the legal way, piss off. That's my stance. Your country may not be perfect, but it doesn't mean you have to jump the queue illegally. I can understand if your fleeing for your life (that is what a refugee is all about), but some people are just fleeing for the sake of it. Lock the bastards up

almostaugust

This issue is a hard one. We do need centres to process these people and find out about their origin. Though, i think that the amount of mean spiritedness in our community is amazing. Eat shit and die in the fucking ocean you filthy forigners is the subtext of what alot of people are thinking and feeling. I thought it was horrible that Howard lied about the children overboard thing, but the thing that really scared me was that we wanted to belive it. We thought 'yeah, these people would be capable of this, sure why not, afterall they are trying to get into this country and steal our jobs'. At one stage the whole nation was going ape shit about being invaded by the forign hoard. I fondly remember the Telegraph's 3 page spreads about it. The ship in question at the time had 10 people on it. Yes, not even a full footy team. Meanwhile the country has scores of other more pressing social and economic obstacles. Yeah, i know News = Entertainment.
Meridaen. You keep saying that the majority of Aussies are on your side and maybe you are right, but the fact that there was such a protest against Woomera etc shows that there are alot of people who think otherwise. Paul keating was a bit of a wanker. But he was a wanker who bent arse over tit to secure our strong relations with asia. Howard has done much to undermine this strength.

fuzzix

Well put.
I think that this influx of filthy foreigners that everyone is oh so worried about is largely imaginary. For a 'multicultural' nation, Australians are incredibly closed minded and ignorant. I say if they're here, then let them stay. There's plenty of room

__________________
I'm most definately not 'lovin' it'.

Meridae'n

Whoa. Plenty of room? As in space... maybe. As in resources... definately not.

This problem is not just confined to Australia, we are handling this the same way alot of countries are.

Yeah, the protests were sizable, but held and attended by the usual suspects. I was at uni for 6 years, I know many of the types of people that went to these rallies, and they're not exactly what you would call 'well informed', rather they are passionate people with the latest left-wing anti-government cause under their arms and all the time in the world to waste going to these things. The majority are too busy working and paying for these idiots to express their views... the silent majority would rather stage their rally on October 9th.

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Kostya

Let's just presume this is true for a second. What are you saying? Professional people aren't actually in trouble if a civil war breaks out? Professionals can't be opressed? I'm reminded of Pol Pot's ruthless extermination campaign, or Mao's Cultural Revolution which targeted just this demographic: doctors, lawyers, etc.

Then again, I question the veracity of your claim that asylum seekers 'in most cases' research Australian Legal systems and media reactions and purchase children from poverty stricken families. If this were the case, surely it would be more highly publicised. No newspaper would miss the sensational profits inolved in revealing these details to the public.

spindles

I guess if you make the detention long enough, most people would think twice. It should be easier to either process them and ship them back where they came from, and hold them for some time before allowing them in.

Having said that I don't think they should be taking the place of a legally allowed immigrant.

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Kostya

You do realise that seeking asylum is LEGAL right?

I must stress to you, that those people who are granted asylum while in detention are NOT:

Trespassers, queue jumpers, illegal immigrants, criminals, liars, thieves, job stealers, shysters, conmen, aliens, demons, zombies, evil in any way...

They are in fact quite within their rights to seek asylum in Australia and if they are granted asylum are LEGAL immigrants to this country, because they are refugees and have been recognised as such.

So therefore, they are not 'taking the place' of a legally allowed immigrant, they ARE a legally allowed immigrant. Moreover, the idea that these people, who by the government's own admission, considering they granted them asylum, are desperately in need of relocation, they are well and truly entitled to be placed ahead of people less in need. It's the same way they admit patients with gaping neck wounds ahead of the guy with the stubbed toe...

Mr_Wall

Refugees and Illegal immigrants can't be Identified by the amount of money they have spent to get into the country. Take the Jew's in WWII Warsaw, they were some of the richest in the country but also the most persacuted.