Tempboy

I was flipping through a book on military aircraft a couple days ago.. it had profiles and info on every military plane you could think of since the early 1900's...

Except.. for one exception... the Arrow.

What a kick in the teeth, to exclude the plane that ushered in the era of modern aviation.

I flipped through the index.. it wasn't even mentioned.
Ugh..

neddy65

The Arrow has been swept well under the rug and will only ever be listed as a footnote as it never went into production. It is a sad page in Canadian history to be sure.

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Fly

good site.........too bad "someone" wanted this beauty shut down before it even got a chance


http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/factualarrow.html

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losthellhound

stunning plane.. too bad it never got mass produced

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Quadraton

I've heard all the conspiracy theories on how the Americans were jealous of us, and had the program shut down and blah blah blah

While it would have been a shining jewel of Canadian engineering, I doubt by today it would have made much of a difference. With the way the government has been running the military into the ground over the past 10 years, most of the planes would have ended up in a museum anyway.

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losthellhound

Actually they wouldnt. Due to the superiority of the plane, they would have been the core of several air forces.. The french, the british, and several others were interested in the Arrow. The Americans may not have been jealous of us, but they did fear that they wouldnt have control over the top long range supersonic tactical fighter and who it was sold to

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"Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?"
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Charlatan

I agree with losthellhound... The French wanted the engines for their Mirage... If the Arrow, and more importantly Avro, had been allowed to flourish they would have been a big player in the world of advanced aviation...

But here's a question... it that what we want? Do we wish Canada had been the builder of some of the best war machines ever? I'm torn. On one hand the scientist in me wants to achieve greatness... space travel, supersonic speeds, etc. But the humanitarian in me wouldn't be proud that we created something that was "the best" at warfare...

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losthellhound

My thoughts exactly. Im insanely proud of the products that Canada produces for the world. BlackBerry handhelds, Candoo reactors, the Canada space arm..

I dont know if it'd be as proud of a Canadian long range fighter/bomber

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"Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?"
-- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

wakelagger

From what I understand, the Avro Arrow was designed as an ICBM interceptor, so it'd be defending more so than attacking.
Also, when the Arrow project was shut down, the hundreds of young, talented, engineers working on the project went south of the border to become part of the newly formed NASA.
Oh, what Canada could have been...technology wise.

Charlatan

I find that hard to believe when I take a long hard look at the technolgy... once exported it can be used for way more than just defense.


This is the reason I am torn. When Avro closed, Lockheed, Boeing, etc. were in the parking lot recruiting those who'd just been given pink slips...

It is nice to know that many Canadians worked at NASA and reached into space and the moon... It is also nice to know that many Canadians are down in Hollywood making great films that are seen and loved the world over...

If you get my drift.

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hobo

Its something that we'll never know. What would the world be like if the Avro Arrow wasn't cancelled? We know for sure that Europe was interested in it, and wanted to make large purchases. Canada might have another major industry in military aircraft. However, this would probably have set Canada on a path more like Americas. If a Canadian company was producing advanced military aircraft, the Canadian government would have to buy some, it would be embarassing not to. This would result in a more militaristic Canada.

I don't know how the world would be different if the Avro Arrow was put into mass production. If I could change it, I wouldn't. It wouldn't be worth the risk, for all we know, having those planes would've triggered nuclear war.

Deominous

Avro was told by the goverment to stop its production of the AVRO C-102 Jetliner
so they could concentrate on making arrows.

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james t kirk

I am an Arrowhead.

It flew before I was ever even born.

I often tell people that I can not bring myself ever to vote for the party of Diefenbaker because he cancelled the Arrow.

The Arrow was years ahead of its time. It was the first Delta Winged fighter in the world. It flew faster and could perform better in 1959 than the crappy F-18's we fly today.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Dr. James Floyd (head of Engineering at AVRO Canada during the Jetliner Era and of course, ARROW) I have also met the original test pilot - Jan Zurakowski who recently died.

Dr. Floyd still lives in Etobicoke. After the ARROW was cancelled, he went to work in Britain for Hawkery Sidedly the parent company of AVRO (AV Roe) and went on to be part of the design team of this other plane called Concorde.

I can understand that the ARROW was an expensive project, but I can never ever ever fathom why Dief totally killed the project. Maybe a scaling back of the program, but to completely and utterly kill it, and to destroy all the working planes, destroy all the engineering drawings, destroy the technology behind it, to destroy the company that built it.

It's just fucking nuts. It paints a picture of a mad man obsessed. Of a complete an utter fool.

What a waste.

You may be interested to know that there is a legend that one ARROW was spared the welder's cutting torch. God I wish it were true.

james t kirk

Here's a link to the CBC showing ARROW's maiden voyage.

Keep in mind, the first F-14 to fly blew up in mid-air during its maiden voyage.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-75-275-...ro_arrow/clip3

You may also be interested to know that there is a movement to build an actual working model of an ARROW.

I don't think it will ever get there though.

wakelagger

The Toronto Aerospace Museum on Downsview AFB is constructing a non-functional fullscale 'interpretation' of the CF-105. A large part of this entirely volunteer effort is complete. Also, if you make the trip to this lovely museum, you can talk to quite a few of the people that were around to work on the Arrow and the Jetliner.

http://www.torontoaerospacemuseum.com/home.html

Fly

great link james..........thanx eh..........

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