Where In the World Am I? - Page 54 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 08-30-2008, 02:40 PM

Krakatoa?

BadNick · 08-30-2008, 02:46 PM

nope, wrong island

Tully Mars · 08-30-2008, 02:56 PM

Are you in Indonesia?

girldetective · 08-30-2008, 03:05 PM

Isalo Natl Park, in Madagascar?

BadNick · 08-30-2008, 03:45 PM

Tul, not in Indonesia.

gd, While that's not where I am, Isalo Nat'l Park is such a cool place it deserves a pic for us to enjoy:

BUT>>>>>> I am on Madagascar!

uncle phil · 08-30-2008, 04:15 PM

Maromokotro?

girldetective · 08-30-2008, 05:16 PM

Tsingy?

BadNick · 08-30-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

Maromokotro?

nope

Quote:

Originally Posted by girldetective

Tsingy?

nope

...but both were interesting places I didn't know about; so I googled a little and found some info about them...very interesting.

Clue: what you see here was caused by something far away

girldetective · 08-30-2008, 08:50 PM

Are you here?

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 03:51 AM

Canal des Pangalanes?

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 09:23 AM

gd, I'm not sure what that is in your pic...but it definitely doesn't look like where I am.

Tul,
that appears to be a man-made feature, though I'm sure women helped, too...where I am is a naturally formed phenomenon. But may I suggest that based on this info, your guess would fit well into our "The Longest Thread":
The Pangalanes is a chain of sweet water lakes and lagoons parallel to the coast of the Indian Ocean, separated by a narrow stretch of land. The lakes are connected by a man-made channel system that forms an inland waterway from Tamatave through to Farafangana, making it the longest canal in the world covering a distance of 600km.

So where I am standing is on top of certain geologic features that were created by some cataclysmic event far away in the Indian Ocean. I'm sorry if this turns out to be somewhat esoteric or off-beat, but I find it very interesting and, hey...soon you'll also know what it's about.

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 09:34 AM

Is that the Burckle crater?

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 09:38 AM

Wow....good association, Tul. I don't think that gd's pic is the Burckle crater since the B.c. is underwater in the Indian Ocean...but perhaps I'm wrong and you guys are hotter on my trail than I thought.

In any case, Tul....your guess is oh so close since where I am standing in Madagascar was formed by the impact that caused the Burckle crater.

jorgelito · 08-31-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNick

gd, I'm not sure what that is in your pic...but it definitely doesn't look like where I am.

Tul,
that appears to be a man-made feature, though I'm sure women helped, too...where I am is a naturally formed phenomenon. But may I suggest that based on this info, your guess would fit well into our "The Longest Thread":
The Pangalanes is a chain of sweet water lakes and lagoons parallel to the coast of the Indian Ocean, separated by a narrow stretch of land. The lakes are connected by a man-made channel system that forms an inland waterway from Tamatave through to Farafangana, making it the longest canal in the world covering a distance of 600km.

Not even close. The longest canal is the Grand Canal in China which is 3 times as big at 1,770 km. Grand Canal (China) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Not even close. The longest canal is the Grand Canal in China which is 3 times as big at 1,770 km. Grand Canal (China) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oh oh...I'll have to retract my post in The Longest Thread....lucky I blamed it on Tully

uncle phil · 08-31-2008, 10:56 AM

fenabosy bay?

jorgelito · 08-31-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNick

oh oh...I'll have to retract my post in The Longest Thread....lucky I blamed it on Tully

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

fenabosy bay?

That's close enough for me, unc. So you're up next.

I know it as the Fenambosy chevrons, this is one of four near the tip of Madagascar, 600 feet high and three miles from the ocean. These are like the little ripples made by the waves in the sand on most beaches...except the waves that made these must have been HUMUNGOUS!!! It is theorized that the asteroid that hit and made the Burckle crater under the Indian Ocean caused these chevrons.

At the southern end of Madagascar lie four enormous wedge-shaped sediment deposits, called chevrons, that are composed of material from the ocean floor. Each covers twice the area of Manhattan with sediment as deep as the Chrysler Building is high.

On close inspection, the chevron deposits contain deep ocean microfossils that are fused with a medley of metals typically formed by cosmic impacts.

The explanation is obvious to some scientists. A large asteroid or comet, the kind that could kill a quarter of the world’s population, smashed into the Indian Ocean 4,800 years ago, producing a tsunami at least 600 feet high, about 13 times as big as the one that inundated Indonesia nearly two years ago. The wave carried the huge deposits of sediment to land.

Burckle crater has not been dated, but Dr. Abbott estimates that it is 4,500 to 5,000 years old. He thinks he can say precisely when the comet fell: on the morning of May 10, 2807 B.C.

Dr. Masse analyzed 175 flood myths from around the world, and tried to relate them to known and accurately dated natural events like solar eclipses and volcanic eruptions. Among other evidence, he said, 14 flood myths specifically mention a full solar eclipse, which could have been the one that occurred in May 2807 B.C.

Half the myths talk of a torrential downpour, Dr. Masse said. A third talk of a tsunami. Worldwide they describe hurricane force winds and darkness during the storm. All of these could come from a mega-tsunami.

Of course, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, Dr. Masse said, “and we’re not there yet.”

When interviewed by the most prestegious Harvard Science Journal, BadNick, that amateur scientific surfer somewhat infamous on TFP was noted to say "are we there yet?"

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 02:16 PM

Interesting.

BTW- I can walk from my house to the town of Chicxulub in about 15mins. When the cruise ships come in they drive people over to Chicxulub in a really cheesy looking double decker bus with pictures of dinosaurs and a comets on the sides and back. If I think about it I'll snap a photo of one of the buses someday.

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 04:19 PM

Tul,
It would be fun to see that bus if you get a pic of it.

Your comment reminds me of a trip I made to the Yucatan about 30 years ago when I rented a VW Thing, all open sides no windows, this one didn't have a top either. I was driving with my gf south along a coastal road toward Belize; at one point a couple hours south of Cancun I pulled over to explore, she didn't want to climb so she stayed in the car while I climbed up thru some light jungle growth and up and over a sandy hill...assuming the gulf was right over the hill, which it was and when I came down the other side it was one of the most beautiful beach views I've seen, miles in all directions with nothing but me running around naked...suddenly I hear screaming and I'm thinking some bandits are attacking and raping my gf so I quickly put my pants on and run back to find a giant swarm of mosquitos are all over the car and her...so I jump in and we drive away and live happily ever after. One of the things I liked about her was that the mosquitos always seemed to go for her and leave me alone.

You probably know about the seemingly well founded (to me) theory that the huge impact crater that lies just along the northern coast of the Yucatan penninsula and into the Gulf of Mexico may well have caused the/or one of the dinosaur extinctions.

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNick

Tul,
You probably know about the seemingly well founded (to me) theory that the huge impact crater that lies just along the northern coast of the Yucatan penninsula and into the Gulf of Mexico may well have caused the/or one of the dinosaur extinctions.

They sell it up pretty big down here. They take people out near the town and shown them a dried up cenote and tell them that's the impact point. The real impact point of course is severals miles off shore. Meh, tourists.

I run into college students from time to time at the Merida English Library who are either studying Mayan history or the crater. I've ended up lending my services, truck and GPS several times in the last year.

uncle phil · 08-31-2008, 04:38 PM

ok, people, where the fuckarewe?

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 04:42 PM

Chixulub? Kidding.

WH?

uncle phil · 08-31-2008, 04:44 PM

yes...

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 05:00 PM

Mustang Ranch Reno Nevada?

uncle phil · 08-31-2008, 05:07 PM

no...

Tully Mars · 08-31-2008, 05:41 PM

BadNick · 08-31-2008, 06:03 PM

U.S.?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 03:03 AM

tully - yes

nick - yes

Tully Mars · 09-01-2008, 03:30 AM

North of 40 Lat?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 03:52 AM

i am in the north 40...

Tully Mars · 09-01-2008, 04:01 AM

Are you east of 95 long?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 04:31 AM

i am east of 95...

Tully Mars · 09-01-2008, 06:52 AM

Are you in New York state?

BadNick · 09-01-2008, 07:40 AM

Are you somewhere on the Great Lakes?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 09:39 AM

tully - yes

nick - no

Tully Mars · 09-01-2008, 09:49 AM

Rural area?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 10:19 AM

no...

Tully Mars · 09-01-2008, 12:53 PM

In NYC?

uncle phil · 09-01-2008, 01:10 PM

i am in NYC...

no, it's not over yet...

08-30-2008, 02:40 PM	#2121 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Krakatoa? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-30-2008, 02:56 PM	#2123 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Are you in Indonesia? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-30-2008, 03:05 PM	#2124 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	Isalo Natl Park, in Madagascar? __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

08-30-2008, 04:15 PM	#2126 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	Maromokotro? __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-30-2008, 05:16 PM	#2127 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	Tsingy? __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

08-30-2008, 02:46 PM	#2122 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	nope, wrong island

08-30-2008, 03:45 PM	#2125 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Tul, not in Indonesia. gd, While that's not where I am, Isalo Nat'l Park is such a cool place it deserves a pic for us to enjoy: BUT>>>>>> I am on Madagascar!

08-30-2008, 08:50 PM	#2129 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	Are you here? __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 12-07-2008 at 11:39 AM..

08-31-2008, 03:51 AM	#2130 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Canal des Pangalanes? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 09:23 AM	#2131 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	gd, I'm not sure what that is in your pic...but it definitely doesn't look like where I am. Tul, that appears to be a man-made feature, though I'm sure women helped, too...where I am is a naturally formed phenomenon. But may I suggest that based on this info, your guess would fit well into our "The Longest Thread": The Pangalanes is a chain of sweet water lakes and lagoons parallel to the coast of the Indian Ocean, separated by a narrow stretch of land. The lakes are connected by a man-made channel system that forms an inland waterway from Tamatave through to Farafangana, making it the longest canal in the world covering a distance of 600km. So where I am standing is on top of certain geologic features that were created by some cataclysmic event far away in the Indian Ocean. I'm sorry if this turns out to be somewhat esoteric or off-beat, but I find it very interesting and, hey...soon you'll also know what it's about.

08-31-2008, 09:34 AM	#2132 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Is that the Burckle crater? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 09:38 AM	#2133 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Wow....good association, Tul. I don't think that gd's pic is the Burckle crater since the B.c. is underwater in the Indian Ocean...but perhaps I'm wrong and you guys are hotter on my trail than I thought. In any case, Tul....your guess is oh so close since where I am standing in Madagascar was formed by the impact that caused the Burckle crater.

08-31-2008, 10:56 AM	#2136 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	fenabosy bay? __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-31-2008, 02:16 PM	#2139 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Interesting. BTW- I can walk from my house to the town of Chicxulub in about 15mins. When the cruise ships come in they drive people over to Chicxulub in a really cheesy looking double decker bus with pictures of dinosaurs and a comets on the sides and back. If I think about it I'll snap a photo of one of the buses someday. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 04:19 PM	#2140 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Tul, It would be fun to see that bus if you get a pic of it. Your comment reminds me of a trip I made to the Yucatan about 30 years ago when I rented a VW Thing, all open sides no windows, this one didn't have a top either. I was driving with my gf south along a coastal road toward Belize; at one point a couple hours south of Cancun I pulled over to explore, she didn't want to climb so she stayed in the car while I climbed up thru some light jungle growth and up and over a sandy hill...assuming the gulf was right over the hill, which it was and when I came down the other side it was one of the most beautiful beach views I've seen, miles in all directions with nothing but me running around naked...suddenly I hear screaming and I'm thinking some bandits are attacking and raping my gf so I quickly put my pants on and run back to find a giant swarm of mosquitos are all over the car and her...so I jump in and we drive away and live happily ever after. One of the things I liked about her was that the mosquitos always seemed to go for her and leave me alone. You probably know about the seemingly well founded (to me) theory that the huge impact crater that lies just along the northern coast of the Yucatan penninsula and into the Gulf of Mexico may well have caused the/or one of the dinosaur extinctions. Last edited by BadNick; 08-31-2008 at 04:25 PM..

08-31-2008, 04:38 PM	#2142 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	ok, people, where the fuckarewe? __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-31-2008, 04:42 PM	#2143 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Chixulub? Kidding. WH? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 04:44 PM	#2144 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	yes... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-31-2008, 05:00 PM	#2145 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Mustang Ranch Reno Nevada? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 05:07 PM	#2146 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	no... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-31-2008, 05:41 PM	#2147 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	NH? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-31-2008, 06:03 PM	#2148 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	U.S.?

09-01-2008, 03:03 AM	#2149 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	tully - yes nick - yes __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-01-2008, 03:30 AM	#2150 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	North of 40 Lat? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-01-2008, 03:52 AM	#2151 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	i am in the north 40... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-01-2008, 04:01 AM	#2152 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Are you east of 95 long? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-01-2008, 04:31 AM	#2153 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	i am east of 95... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-01-2008, 06:52 AM	#2154 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Are you in New York state? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-01-2008, 07:40 AM	#2155 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Are you somewhere on the Great Lakes?

09-01-2008, 09:39 AM	#2156 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	tully - yes nick - no __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-01-2008, 09:49 AM	#2157 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Rural area? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-01-2008, 10:19 AM	#2158 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	no... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-01-2008, 12:53 PM	#2159 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	In NYC? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-01-2008, 01:10 PM	#2160 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	i am in NYC... no, it's not over yet... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.