Where am I going to be... in Canada - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bossnass · 02-17-2007, 09:14 PM

My wife is a couple months away from completing her medical undergrad and has spent the last few weeks traveling across the country to various med schools to interview for residency. She will be entered into a residency matching program, where students rank schools and schools rank students, and the matching then follows a somewhat confusing algorithm. Confusing in that I don't know if the school's preference or the students preference governs or in what order.

The bottom line is that whatever school she matches to, she is legally obligated to become a resident there for the next five years. Residency programs of her choice vary in strength across the country, cities vary in appeal. And thus, we have to rank cities in Canada on where we want to go.

I'm a couple months away (plus a few odd credits) from my degree in civil engineering. Generally speaking, I have good employment prospects, but what I will end up doing (work, post grad school, alternate school in architecture or a MBA, stay at home dad, etc) does factor into the equation. I don't really know what my prospects are outside of Alberta. I know which schools offer programs I could see myself attending but I'm not sold on more school since I'm already an adult student. It is very likely that we will try and have our first kid during her residency. We are both Alberta born and raised, our friends and more importantly her family is here in Alberta, so we would like to stay.

The rank as of now:

1- Edmonton. One of the top programs. Excellent prospects for me. Where our current home is.

2- Calgary. One of the lower programs. Excellent careers for me. Still in Alberta.

3/4- London and Hamilton. Both top programs, equal to Edmonton. Likable towns.

5- Winnipeg. Great program, good city.

6- Halifax. Good program (less 'respected' but highest 'happiness' rating), we both really like the city. Suspect weaker employment for me.

7- Vancouver. Lower program. Nice climate. We're split on the city. Still in the west.

8- St.Johns/Toronto/Montreal/Kingston/Ottawa/Saskatoon - all of these cities had some sort of deal breaker. She missed her Toronto interview due to circumstances outside of her control and they wouldn't let her reschedule. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=112920 Memorial University has refused to let me take my 6 missing credits. Her passable bilingualism was quite an issue in Montreal. She didn't like Kingston. She hated Saskatoon. She was pretty much told that she wouldn't be ranked by Ottawa. Etc.

This thread was inspired by another thread asking about Winnipeg. I know we have a fair number of Canadians on here, so there should be some extra insight. Does anyone think we should change our rank? Is it worth putting BC higher? Whats the economy like for a bright young engineer in southern Ontario?

Leto · 02-19-2007, 08:59 AM

For engineers? Southern Ontario is excellent. Especially at my company which has a pretty good career guidance programme for engineers, to ensure that they develop to P.Engs. Also, both my sis & bro in law (married to each other) are engineers (Honeywell & DeHavilland respectively) and have had a good run at their careers.

Why doesn't she like Kingston? This is one place I would relocate to in a drop of a hat, if I had a job there. I love the size of the city, the recreational aspect, the sailing especially, and it's proximity to 3 major centres all within 2 hrs distance. As well, it is fairly cosmopolitan for it's size/location (nothing on the scale of Toronto mind you) so you never really fall into the white bread mindset there.

BC would be my next choice simply because i like just standing there and breathing. Doesn't matter if it is on the coast ( I love rain --- maybe why i like Kingston so much) or the dry interior... I also like the vibe of Vancouver.

I can't speak to Alberta, but if you are comfortable there, one thing that I have noticed is that moving house is an extremely costly proposition. One that I have avoided doing for the past 14 years because there has never been a viable business case to do so.

Sticky · 02-19-2007, 09:57 AM

If you are interested in an MBA consider the business schools in the cities.
The University of Western Ontario has an awesome business school (Ivey). It is all taught with case method - in my opionion the best method otherwise you can just read a textbook.

Montreal is a great city. She could look at it as an opportunity to improve her billingualism. At some point, however, she will need to pass a most rediculous french test.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ses050112.htmlI don't know when this test needs to be taken before or during residency or after residency if staying in Quebec.

Bossnass · 02-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Why doesn't she like Kingston?

BC would be my next choice ...

The program she is looking to get into (Internal) will have a 2/3 or a 3/2 5 year residency pattern of general then sub-specialty, depending on which school. Kingston is disproportionately small, meaning 25% more nights on-call, and also meaning that her currently desired sub-specialty in not available, so she would have to transfer to Toronto. Compared to other programs, not desirable, but she did like the town.

UBC is a very competitive program with a lower quality program, just because people want to live there. I don't like too much overcast weather but she loves the humidity, but we can't afford to live well there yet. We have talked about moving out there for a staff position/fellowship when she starts making a decent living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Montreal is a great city. ..a most rediculous french test.

McGill invited everyone to apply, even anglophones, saying that the merit of the student would not be judged on linguistic skills. Then one of the interviewers refused to speak english during her interview. She was also warned about 'big Q' quebecois staff and Sr. residents would would make her life hell. Her tour of two over stuffed hospitals (seriously ridiculous sardine like conditions, 10 beds in the area designed for 3 or 4) scared her off too.

Winnipeg has moved up a little. We can sell our tiny condo here and buy a small mansion there. I've heard a lot of people speak highly of Western's business school, and she really liked that program too. She may rank london and winnipeg over calgary.

Sticky · 02-20-2007, 06:47 AM

My wife and I liked London.
You should also be able to buy a Mansion in london for what you get for your condo. You can even find something close to the school.

tinfoil · 02-20-2007, 09:51 AM

I live near London and find it to be one of the nicest cities in all of southern Ontario. I've been to Hamilton enough to believe it to be one of the places I would least like to call home.

There's a tonne of small towns just outside of London as well, if you prefer the quieter life outside of a city, as my family and I do.

One thing to concern yourself with as far as Halifax goes is that the maritime provinces generally have a higher unemployment rate. Southern Ontario will be a great place for a career such as the one you are planning, and from what I understand, the hospitals in London are among the top in Canada.

Bossnass · 02-23-2007, 12:43 PM

Upon further discussion, living in Hamilton itself isn't an option. She said there are three options "Up the mountain, down the mountain, and the hell out of town", while the third option is the best choice. Dundas maybe.

London is looking better and better. Since Calgary has become a rather expensive town and their internal residency program is relatively weak, we are debating ranking winnipeg and london higher than calgary.

And all this research could be for nothing, as my wife has been told (in a very unofficial off the record sort of way) that she is a top candidate for the Edmonton program.

Sticky · 03-05-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossnass

as my wife has been told (in a very unofficial off the record sort of way) that she is a top candidate for the Edmonton program.

That's how they do it from what I understand.
Kind of kils the reason for having the sytem that they do - not that the system is good.

Bossnass · 03-05-2007, 08:11 PM

In this case the unofficial notice was from the wife of one of the head residents on the review committee, who examines the application and the report from the interviewing panel. It just so happened that she (another doctor) was working with my wife and recognized the name. And she was ambiguous in a positive way, knowing that she shouldn't say anything at all.

MY wife was also told at several other interviews in other cities that she was a strong candidate and she should rank them, while at others she was pretty much told not to bother.

All and all, I think the CaRMs matching program is just about as equitable and fair placement matching system possible. Very very little 'I know someone important so I'll get the residency I want'. Even Program Directors have minimal input (and usually more of a veto power than an acceptance).

The final ranking list, as submitted, till the 7th to possibly change.

Edmonton
Winnipeg
Calgary
London
Hamilton
Halifax
Saskatoon
BC
(all else not ranked)

Bossnass · 03-22-2007, 08:08 PM

_____________________________________________________--

We're staying here. Matched to her first choice.

Our best friends didn't get their first choice, or second, and are moving to Halifax. My wife's best girlfriend is moving to London, as are 3 other people. I guess it was a popular choice. One poor schmuck is heading to montreal... his 7th choice.

Turns out Vancouver peds didn't fill. They were confident that enough people were going to rank them first that they only ranked 20 people with spots for 12. But enough students got other choices first and the program didn't get enough people.

Sticky · 03-23-2007, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossnass

We're staying here. Matched to her first choice.

Congratulations. I guess that is really good news for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossnass

One poor schmuck is heading to montreal... his 7th choice.

7th choice, that sucks.

02-17-2007, 09:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bossnass Détente Location: AWOL in Edmonton	Where am I going to be... in Canada My wife is a couple months away from completing her medical undergrad and has spent the last few weeks traveling across the country to various med schools to interview for residency. She will be entered into a residency matching program, where students rank schools and schools rank students, and the matching then follows a somewhat confusing algorithm. Confusing in that I don't know if the school's preference or the students preference governs or in what order. The bottom line is that whatever school she matches to, she is legally obligated to become a resident there for the next five years. Residency programs of her choice vary in strength across the country, cities vary in appeal. And thus, we have to rank cities in Canada on where we want to go. I'm a couple months away (plus a few odd credits) from my degree in civil engineering. Generally speaking, I have good employment prospects, but what I will end up doing (work, post grad school, alternate school in architecture or a MBA, stay at home dad, etc) does factor into the equation. I don't really know what my prospects are outside of Alberta. I know which schools offer programs I could see myself attending but I'm not sold on more school since I'm already an adult student. It is very likely that we will try and have our first kid during her residency. We are both Alberta born and raised, our friends and more importantly her family is here in Alberta, so we would like to stay. The rank as of now: 1- Edmonton. One of the top programs. Excellent prospects for me. Where our current home is. 2- Calgary. One of the lower programs. Excellent careers for me. Still in Alberta. 3/4- London and Hamilton. Both top programs, equal to Edmonton. Likable towns. 5- Winnipeg. Great program, good city. 6- Halifax. Good program (less 'respected' but highest 'happiness' rating), we both really like the city. Suspect weaker employment for me. 7- Vancouver. Lower program. Nice climate. We're split on the city. Still in the west. 8- St.Johns/Toronto/Montreal/Kingston/Ottawa/Saskatoon - all of these cities had some sort of deal breaker. She missed her Toronto interview due to circumstances outside of her control and they wouldn't let her reschedule. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=112920 Memorial University has refused to let me take my 6 missing credits. Her passable bilingualism was quite an issue in Montreal. She didn't like Kingston. She hated Saskatoon. She was pretty much told that she wouldn't be ranked by Ottawa. Etc. This thread was inspired by another thread asking about Winnipeg. I know we have a fair number of Canadians on here, so there should be some extra insight. Does anyone think we should change our rank? Is it worth putting BC higher? Whats the economy like for a bright young engineer in southern Ontario?

02-20-2007, 09:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
tinfoil Fucking Hostile Location: Springford, ON, Canada	I live near London and find it to be one of the nicest cities in all of southern Ontario. I've been to Hamilton enough to believe it to be one of the places I would least like to call home. There's a tonne of small towns just outside of London as well, if you prefer the quieter life outside of a city, as my family and I do. One thing to concern yourself with as far as Halifax goes is that the maritime provinces generally have a higher unemployment rate. Southern Ontario will be a great place for a career such as the one you are planning, and from what I understand, the hospitals in London are among the top in Canada. __________________ Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

02-19-2007, 08:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	For engineers? Southern Ontario is excellent. Especially at my company which has a pretty good career guidance programme for engineers, to ensure that they develop to P.Engs. Also, both my sis & bro in law (married to each other) are engineers (Honeywell & DeHavilland respectively) and have had a good run at their careers. Why doesn't she like Kingston? This is one place I would relocate to in a drop of a hat, if I had a job there. I love the size of the city, the recreational aspect, the sailing especially, and it's proximity to 3 major centres all within 2 hrs distance. As well, it is fairly cosmopolitan for it's size/location (nothing on the scale of Toronto mind you) so you never really fall into the white bread mindset there. BC would be my next choice simply because i like just standing there and breathing. Doesn't matter if it is on the coast ( I love rain --- maybe why i like Kingston so much) or the dry interior... I also like the vibe of Vancouver. I can't speak to Alberta, but if you are comfortable there, one thing that I have noticed is that moving house is an extremely costly proposition. One that I have avoided doing for the past 14 years because there has never been a viable business case to do so.

02-19-2007, 09:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sticky	If you are interested in an MBA consider the business schools in the cities. The University of Western Ontario has an awesome business school (Ivey). It is all taught with case method - in my opionion the best method otherwise you can just read a textbook. Montreal is a great city. She could look at it as an opportunity to improve her billingualism. At some point, however, she will need to pass a most rediculous french test. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ses050112.htmlI don't know when this test needs to be taken before or during residency or after residency if staying in Quebec. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

02-20-2007, 06:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sticky	My wife and I liked London. You should also be able to buy a Mansion in london for what you get for your condo. You can even find something close to the school. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

02-23-2007, 12:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bossnass Détente Location: AWOL in Edmonton	Upon further discussion, living in Hamilton itself isn't an option. She said there are three options "Up the mountain, down the mountain, and the hell out of town", while the third option is the best choice. Dundas maybe. London is looking better and better. Since Calgary has become a rather expensive town and their internal residency program is relatively weak, we are debating ranking winnipeg and london higher than calgary. And all this research could be for nothing, as my wife has been told (in a very unofficial off the record sort of way) that she is a top candidate for the Edmonton program.

03-05-2007, 08:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bossnass Détente Location: AWOL in Edmonton	In this case the unofficial notice was from the wife of one of the head residents on the review committee, who examines the application and the report from the interviewing panel. It just so happened that she (another doctor) was working with my wife and recognized the name. And she was ambiguous in a positive way, knowing that she shouldn't say anything at all. MY wife was also told at several other interviews in other cities that she was a strong candidate and she should rank them, while at others she was pretty much told not to bother. All and all, I think the CaRMs matching program is just about as equitable and fair placement matching system possible. Very very little 'I know someone important so I'll get the residency I want'. Even Program Directors have minimal input (and usually more of a veto power than an acceptance). The final ranking list, as submitted, till the 7th to possibly change. Edmonton Winnipeg Calgary London Hamilton Halifax Saskatoon BC (all else not ranked)

03-22-2007, 08:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bossnass Détente Location: AWOL in Edmonton	_____________________________________________________-- We're staying here. Matched to her first choice. Our best friends didn't get their first choice, or second, and are moving to Halifax. My wife's best girlfriend is moving to London, as are 3 other people. I guess it was a popular choice. One poor schmuck is heading to montreal... his 7th choice. Turns out Vancouver peds didn't fill. They were confident that enough people were going to rank them first that they only ranked 20 people with spots for 12. But enough students got other choices first and the program didn't get enough people.