Is the Liberal party nuts? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

highthief · 10-01-2006, 02:30 AM

Bob Rae ... Bob "I wrecked Ontario" Rae is a front runner (indeed, some suggest he is the favourite) to win the leadership of the Liberal party. have the vested interests in the party lost their minds? There can be no one (well, maybe Joe Volpe and his dead voters) the Tories would rather run against than Rae, knowing full well they will gain more seats in Ontario (because of Rae's record) and Quebec (because Rae can't speak French).

Just what is such a large bloc of the party thinking?

Charlatan · 10-01-2006, 02:41 AM

Wow... I am really surprised.

I am off to read up on the event...

EDIT: all I can find is that Ignatieff is in the lead with Rae and Dion in a dead heat for 2nd...

Did they already hold the second round of voting?

From what I can read, the Ontario contingent of voters are *very* soft on Rae. There is still a ways to go on this... I am still predicting a victory for Ignatieff.

highthief · 10-01-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Wow... I am really surprised.

I am off to read up on the event...

EDIT: all I can find is that Ignatieff is in the lead with Rae and Dion in a dead heat for 2nd...

Did they already hold the second round of voting?

From what I can read, the Ontario contingent of voters are *very* soft on Rae. There is still a ways to go on this... I am still predicting a victory for Ignatieff.

The pundits were saying Ignatieff is very vulnerable to losing out in 2nd and 3rd round balloting, with Rae being the one who might profit most from others dropping from the race.

I think to even consider Rae is utterly insane. I wouldn't imagine the Liberals winning a single seat in Ontario outside possibly the downtown Toronto core if Rae were at the helm. His French is awful, too, so there goes Quebec.

Charlatan · 10-01-2006, 04:52 AM

All I know is I wish I could be watching all of this and getting the play by play... there is going to be some serious backroom negotiations going on. Where those 10percenters shift their support is going to matter in the next round BUT the real drama will be where will Kennedy, Rae or Dion throw their support if it comes to a third round... they have the numbers to tip anyone over the top.

While I think Rae is an interesting choice, leadership wise, I have to agree that he a poor choice because of his past. It would be his undoing in a head to head with Harper.

Baraka_Guru · 10-01-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

[The Tories know] full well they will gain more seats in Ontario (because of Rae's record) [...]

Although Rae has a reputation in Ontario, it was as an NDP premier. And don't forget that many Ontarians are still too busy hating what Mike Harris had done to the province, not to mention Mike Harris himself. (Remember: the public's memory is more potent when the history is more recent.) Between the various political parties that have ruled provincial office, many Ontario voters are upset to a disproporionate degree. The bottom line, however, is that provincial politics are quite different from federal politics. Although Rae has no federal experience, he has many credentials and cannot be attached to the sponsorship scandal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

[...] and Quebec (because Rae can't speak French).

Actually, Bob Rae is quite fluent in French. Were you thinking of Gerard Kennedy?

I know, I know, as an Ontarian, the idea of "Prime Minister Bob Rae" sounds a bit freakish. But it isn't that far-fetched and could actually happen.

highthief · 10-01-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Although Rae has a reputation in Ontario, it was as an NDP premier. And don't forget that many Ontarians are still too busy hating what Mike Harris had done to the province, not to mention Mike Harris himself. (Remember: the public's memory is more potent when the history is more recent.) Between the various political parties that have ruled provincial office, many Ontario voters are upset to a disproporionate degree. The bottom line, however, is that provincial politics are quite different from federal politics. Although Rae has no federal experience, he has many credentials and cannot be attached to the sponsorship scandal.

Actually, Bob Rae is quite fluent in French. Were you thinking of Gerard Kennedy?

I know, I know, as an Ontarian, the idea of "Prime Minister Bob Rae" sounds a bit freakish. But it isn't that far-fetched and could actually happen.

I saw a few outtakes from a some Q&A Rae had to take from Quebec reporters - can't say I was impressed by his French at all. He seemed very uncomfortable.

As for Mike Harris, my money is on John Tory to win the next provincial tilt - other than Toronto (Havana North), people have mostly gotten past any Mike Harris/Tory hate.

Ace_O_Spades · 10-01-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I know, I know, as an Ontarian, the idea of "Prime Minister Bob Rae" sounds a bit freakish. But it isn't that far-fetched and could actually happen.

Exactly... three years ago I would have thought Prime Minister Stephen Harper sounded INCREDIBLY freakish... look where we are now.

A scandal here, a moral panic there, and BOOM, freaky Stephen Harper is Prime Minister

highthief · 10-02-2006, 03:52 AM

And Bob Rae is sitting in 2nd spot behind Ignatieff, with Dion and Kennedy sharing third. All other candidates are likely too far behind to be part of the mix come the big convention.

Amaras · 10-04-2006, 07:30 AM

Imagine if the vote gets split and the Bloc Quebecois gets the majority!

Charlatan · 10-04-2006, 07:33 AM

There aren't enough seats in Quebec to win a Majority...

highthief · 10-04-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolsch

Imagine if the vote gets split and the Bloc Quebecois gets the majority!

That's how the NDP got in in Ontario - protest votes and split votes. Only about 35% of Ontarians voted for Rae the last time, can't imagine that number going up!

However, I know that it is numerically possible for the Bloc to gain a majority as they only run candidates in the Quebec ridings. They might obtain greater balance of power however, as they have to some extent now.

Charlatan · 12-02-2006, 10:06 AM

I've just been watching the speeches given by the leadership candidates and I have to say that Bob Rae sounded great. Ignatieff sounded very flat and dry.

After two rounds it is still anyone's game. With Kennedy giving his support to Dion It is a real horse race.

I think this is going to go four rounds and I think it's going to be Rae with Dion crossing the floor to support him.

What an exciting time to be a Liberal.

10-01-2006, 02:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Is the Liberal party nuts? Bob Rae ... Bob "I wrecked Ontario" Rae is a front runner (indeed, some suggest he is the favourite) to win the leadership of the Liberal party. have the vested interests in the party lost their minds? There can be no one (well, maybe Joe Volpe and his dead voters) the Tories would rather run against than Rae, knowing full well they will gain more seats in Ontario (because of Rae's record) and Quebec (because Rae can't speak French). Just what is such a large bloc of the party thinking? __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

10-01-2006, 02:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Wow... I am really surprised. I am off to read up on the event... EDIT: all I can find is that Ignatieff is in the lead with Rae and Dion in a dead heat for 2nd... Did they already hold the second round of voting? From what I can read, the Ontario contingent of voters are very soft on Rae. There is still a ways to go on this... I am still predicting a victory for Ignatieff. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke Last edited by Charlatan; 10-01-2006 at 02:46 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

10-01-2006, 04:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	All I know is I wish I could be watching all of this and getting the play by play... there is going to be some serious backroom negotiations going on. Where those 10percenters shift their support is going to matter in the next round BUT the real drama will be where will Kennedy, Rae or Dion throw their support if it comes to a third round... they have the numbers to tip anyone over the top. While I think Rae is an interesting choice, leadership wise, I have to agree that he a poor choice because of his past. It would be his undoing in a head to head with Harper. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-02-2006, 03:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	And Bob Rae is sitting in 2nd spot behind Ignatieff, with Dion and Kennedy sharing third. All other candidates are likely too far behind to be part of the mix come the big convention. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

10-04-2006, 07:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
Amaras Junkie Location: At my daughter's beck and call.	Imagine if the vote gets split and the Bloc Quebecois gets the majority! __________________ Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. -Noam Chomsky Love is a verb, not a noun. -My Mom The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later. -Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

10-04-2006, 07:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	There aren't enough seats in Quebec to win a Majority... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

12-02-2006, 10:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I've just been watching the speeches given by the leadership candidates and I have to say that Bob Rae sounded great. Ignatieff sounded very flat and dry. After two rounds it is still anyone's game. With Kennedy giving his support to Dion It is a real horse race. I think this is going to go four rounds and I think it's going to be Rae with Dion crossing the floor to support him. What an exciting time to be a Liberal. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke