Charlatan

Kate killed her father, robbed a bank and her irresponsible actions resulted in the death of the one man she really loved.

As for what the other survivors did or didn't do, we don't really know their complete back stories yet. I am fairly certain that we are going to see some bad choices and actions as we get more of their respective stories.

The only real anomoly so far is Hurley but he is likely there because he played the numbers and thereby has a connection to it all.

As I said somewhere above, most of the "bad" things these people have done have been tempered by the fact that they are essentially good people. They are potentially redeemable.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ratbastid

Early on, Sayid demonstrated that the compass was wrong on this island.

ratbastid

He was her step-father, and he was beating her mother, and there were hints of sexual assault against Kate herself. Not that that justifies murder, but again: grey area.

Yep. It's a testement to the quality of the writing on the show that the characters are so rich and their motivations are so complex. The only anomaly I can think of is Sawyer, who is, as far as I can tell, an unmitigated jerk.

robbdn

Yeah, that's what I was referring to as well, because I was hoping to start discourse about whether or not his devotion to truth justified his acts. What did you think I was talking about? It sounds interesting.

__________________
I'm swimming in the digital residue of a media-drenched world. It's too cold.

Mondak

whoops wrong thread

dfg

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Charlatan

Ahhh but that is just it... he wasn't her step-father, he was her biological father. That's the reason she gave for killing him. She couldn't bear that he was part of her.

Yes he was abusing her mother, but according to her (not neccesarily a reliable source) he never touched her.

And I still agree, Kate, like the rest of the survivors have done bad things but are mostly in that morally grey area...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

inkriminator

This was my point. And Kate was clearly lying because we saw that he was putting the moves on her.

ratbastid

Oh yeah. Forgot that.

Nancy

I'm not so sure that it's the same thing; What ever Desmond was injecting himself with was gold colored, not white like this new "vaccine"

__________________
I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy.
I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

ratbastid

Could just be a different-colored bottle... Or could be a continuity error (though God knows they've been WAY rigorous about continuity so far). Still... Interesting.

Frosstbyte

The website minigames are making me very very frustrated. I know what I'm supposed to do and I know I'm doing it right and it keeps saying I'm using the wrong password, when I've watched other people type the same password in and get the right result.

I know I can look elsewhere and see what it says, but I'd like to see it myself. I don't think that's so much to ask.

Anyway, here's to hoping the finale is everything I hope it can be. I enjoyed the last episode quite a lot.

Xell101

I'm thinking this entire thing is an experiment in controlling and predicting human behavior without the knowledge of the subject, and that the season cliff hanger will be some staff swinging by to bring about the next stage of the experiment in some nonobvious fashion.

Jove

The two hour season finale only answered few of our questions and provided us with a bigger list of questions.

Just Desmond's backstory, which was extremly important because we now know that the button was important and a massive electromagnetic explosion occured on the island.

Michael is a massive massive tool. If I were Sawyer or Kate or John or Hurley, I would have shot Michael in the head.

Where are the others taking Jack, Sawyer and Kate? Henry Gale seems to be the leader of the others.

RIP Locke, and Ekko.

Moskie

You really think Locke and Ekko are dead? They seemed to have as much a chance of surviving as Charlie did... and he seems fine. A little *too* fine actually. Why was he so unconcerned about locke and ekko's well-being?

So the dudes in the snow and Desmond's girl at the end... this either implies that they are still in the real world (as opposed to some place like purgatory) or at the very least that the place where the castaways are affects the real world.

I loved how they came across the end of the pneumatic tube with the notebooks. It wasn't a surprise that the notebooks weren't actually being tracked, but it was a wonderful way to show us.

I liked it a lot, overall. Didn't answer anything really, but it at least progressed well.

__________________
Greetings and salutations.

NoSoup

Although I was overall rather unimpressed with the actual answers we got vs what we as the audience were told we were going to get, I was happy with the explanation for taking the plane down.

When we learned that this episode was going tell us "who brought the plane down" I was really, really hoping they would come up with at least a relatively plausible story as to how it happened - and fit it in with how it actually looked.

Having the tail ripped off by a giant magnetic field is pretty out there especially when it could have just taken down the plane as a whole, but hey - it is Lost...

__________________
I have an aura of reliability and good judgement.

Just in case you were wondering...

Miss Ina

Anyone here an expert on the affects of unusually intense electromagnetic fields on an airbus? I know I'm not.

Another perfect season finale. I applauded. Lost is just so good at weaving its mystery! I can't wait until the next season.

Also, Desmond David Hume. How quaint.

__________________
The word "time" split its husk; poured its riches over him; and from his lips fell like shells, like shavings from a plane, without his making them, hard, white, imperishable words, and flew to attach themselves to their places in an ode to Time; an immortal ode to Time.
—Virginia Woolf, Mrs Dalloway

Frosstbyte

Well, it was what it was. Can't say I'm amazed. Can't say I'm wow'd. I was entertained, but I really thought it could've been a lot better. And, honestly, after calling Michael out, why did they follow him? "You're setting us up! You killed our friends! But we're going to follow you anyway."

I feel like I missed something.

Catdaddy33

Jack said he has a "plan" not sure if that involved getting caught, not to mention Sayid, Jin, and Sun are still around. When the explosion went off was Sayid back on the boat? It will be interesting to see what exactly happened to the hatch.

I saw that next season they are only showing 9 episodes in the fall and the remaining 15 in 2007.

warrrreagl

How come nobody has mentioned the very last tag with Penny being called by the guys at the ice station? I know she told Desmond that she had lots of money and could find him anywhere, but what does that have to do with the two electromagnetic bursts that they were tracking?

And didn't it sound like the guys at the ice station were speaking Russian, French, Spanish, and English all mixed together? At first, I thought it was a commercial....

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Ample

Okay First what up with the monster thing I hope that we would have a answer for that. Locke and Eko at first I said that there is no way that they are dead. They are two of the most interesting characters. Then I remembered how they killed off Shannon, whom a lot of people thought along with Kate was the hottest chick on the island. Im curious how Kelvin (aka Mr. Krabbs) went from being Sayid's Army Officer to working for Hanso. In case none of you caught the latest website www.hansocareers.com.

Notice when the hatch did that thing at the end, the others acted if they didnt know what was going on? They didnt tell us for sure who exactly the others were.

Charlatan

I'm not sure they acted like they did't know what what happening. I think they were reacting like anyone who would be overwhelmed by the blast.

Henry Gale certainly looked like he knew what was happening.



These last few episodes have really moved us along. I will be very interested to see where they take this next season.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

Did anyone notice the twins that were with the Others? Was it just me or did one of the twins have grey hair while the other didn't. I am thinking that rather than them being twins the younger on is a clone.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

guthmund

Yeah, he was back on the boat.

The ending to the Michael/Walt saga was pretty damn lame. What about Walt's voodoo powers? How is it the 'good' guys let Michael, who shot two people and led 4 others into a trap, get a boat and, presumably, his freedom?

Oh well...

I really, really enjoyed the look on Desmond's face when he told John he crashed the plane, brutha.

Speaking of Des..it's a shame they brought him and Clancy Brown back, just to kill 'em off again.


Did anybody hear all the audio 'weirdness' going on? At first, I thought it was just my local affiliate (It was 'severe thunderstorm' alert night on KSPR), but I've seen a couple of other fellows mention the same thing. It kind of reminded me of the old film projector movies they used to show us in high school. It happened a couple of times, but the only one I can recall specifically was when Charlie and Claire were talking on the beach near the end.

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

cookmo

Michaels not going to leave, thats why he had that long lingering look with Jack. He is going to try and save them to redeem himself somewhat. If he was just going to leave he would have felt to guilty to look them in the eyes.

Did anyone see Jimmy Kimmel Live last night after the finale? They had the real head of the Hanso Foundation on. They kept saying that it was areal Not For Profet Org that the writers of Lost decided to write into the show, but they were not affiliated with it. And that the orangatang was really 105? what did you guys think of this?

ratbastid

It was a VERY interesting episode. We got the door closed on a LOT of mysteries--while opening plenty of new questions.

Answers we got:
1) The button DOES SOMETHING, ALL RIGHT! Holy shit! Locke was WRONG!
2) We know now why the plane crashed! Nothing coincidental about it!
3) What one snowman said to the other snowman.

Questions that got opened:
1) Is Henry Gale "Him"?
2) Where's Michael headed? Is he really chugging off to freedom, or will he redeem himself somehow? Or is he headed back to the beach camp? Or looping around to catch the Others by surprise?
3) "We're the good guys!"... You know, I think they might just be!
4) What happened in the Hatch? Are Locke, Eko and Desmond OK?
5) What's Kelvin's story? How'd he get to the Island?
6) Why did the blacklight come on when Locke was under the blast door? Kelvin (and his predecessor) must have known about the blacklight, yet their faked lockdowns didn't trigger it, and they painted the doormap without it, but knew that the blacklight would make it visible.
7) What's up with the "door" hatch in Yurtville? Is it a fake? Or is it sealed off? Why did the Others have it under armed guard?
8) What's up with the Russians and with Penny Widmore? Is she looking for the island too?

Also--Widmore has come up before. There is a theory that Old Man Widmore's company built the hatches. According to one of the Lost Experience sites, Widmore Labs supplies all the food for the Dharma Initiative. Sun's preganacy test was made by them. See http://www.widmorelaboratories.com.

EDIT! CORRECTION--those guys in the snow were speaking Portugese, not Russian!

NoSoup

2) Well... nothing coincidental is stretching it.

It was crashed by the same guy that Jack had run into years before on a different continent. Not to mention the fact that so many people survived, when the reality of the situation is that had an electromagnetic field ripped the plane apart in the air, it certainly would have accelerated the plane during it's descent, smashing it into the ground/water even harder than it would have been...


7) I assume that they figured Michael would either not be clever enough not to bring others back with them or thought that he wouldn't live up to his word, and used the hatch doors as a decoy, making him believe that Walt was in there...

Quick question, though - wasn't the guy (Kelvin) in the hatch the same guy who was on the bus that had a picture of Kate - presumably her father? The guy who was telling Sayid what to do? Or am I crazy?

__________________
I have an aura of reliability and good judgement.

Just in case you were wondering...

guthmund

He was on the bus and he made Sayid torture that fellow, but he wasn't Kate's father...was he? Wasn't Kate's dad the guy in the army recruitment office from the middle of season 1? That wasn't Kelvin...was it?

How is it the electromagnetic discharge/pulse/whatever was strong enough to pull a plane from the sky, but not...I don't know..seriously screw up any of the electrical stuff in the hatch?

Good call on that black light, ratbastid. I didn't even wonder why it came on for Locke, but not for Kelvin.

I don't think Michael is coming back. He's got what he wants and he never really struck me as a 'to the end' sort of fellow. Even if he did come back what could he possibly do? Even if he did manage to save them all, the only thing waiting for him is a severe beating with some stiff bamboo. I think the 'others' have seriously under estimated Hugo.... Shouldn't have let him walk. The big guy is going to save the day.

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

ratbastid

Incidentally--the guy speaking Portugese at the end, the one on the phone with Penny, may have been played by Matthew Fox. Pause <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYIvbXSY9oc&search=LOST%20Season%202">this youtube video</a> at :35. Certainly bears a striking resemblance to Jack, doesn't he?

ratbastid

Yeah... I guess I meant "nothing random about it". The whole show is based on coincidence.

Charlatan

Hey Ratbastid... some thoughts:

1) Is Henry Gale "Him"? I think so.

2) Where's Michael headed? Is he really chugging off to freedom, or will he redeem himself somehow? Or is he headed back to the beach camp? Or looping around to catch the Others by surprise? I don't think they are going to leave for good. Michael is a good person, who has done some very bad things. He will attempt to redeem himself. Besides, I don't think they can get rid of Walt and his voodoo without explaining things.

3) "We're the good guys!"... You know, I think they might just be! I am vacilating on this.

4) What happened in the Hatch? Are Locke, Eko and Desmond OK? I predict that they are safe. Locke and Eko are two of the most interesting characters on the show. I think the blast doors will have dropped and protected them from the majority of the damage. As for Desmond, I would like to see him survive and given the appearence of Pen at the end of the episode, I have a feeling he will (besides, I think his flashbacks will give us more of Libby's back story. There are still a ton of unanswered questions where she is concerned.)

5) What's Kelvin's story? How'd he get to the Island? I am not convinced he is dead. That looked staged and Desmond didn't really examine him all that well. I predict he will be found with the Others in their camp. At the very least we will get more of him in his flashbacks.

6) Why did the blacklight come on when Locke was under the blast door? Kelvin (and his predecessor) must have known about the blacklight, yet their faked lockdowns didn't trigger it, and they painted the doormap without it, but knew that the blacklight would make it visible. I don't think the door closed enough for the black light to come on. The lights didn't come on until the door was almost completely closed. I think they made the map as they did because they knew they were being observed and didn't want the map to be seen on the camera.


7) What's up with the "door" hatch in Yurtville? Is it a fake? Or is it sealed off? Why did the Others have it under armed guard? The whole places was a staged set. It was there to make an impression on Michael. It might be a collapsed hatch but most likely it is just doors that go to nowhere. The guards were there to add to the image they were feeding Michael.

8) What's up with the Russians and with Penny Widmore? Is she looking for the island too? Interesting, I had assumed she was looking for Desmond. But she might be looking for the Island alone. She may know something of what they are doing and is trying to locate them for her own nefarious reasons...

Interesting that it was portuguese. An odd nationality to choose. I will have to think about that... they are either Portuguese or Brazillian.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ample

I think that there is a good chance we might never see Micheal, Locke, and Eko again. Season three and the back story lines could revolve around the others. Just like this season a set of new characteres were introduced, remeber that it was this season that we learned about Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, and Bernard.

ubertuber

I think Locke, Ekko, and (maybe Desmond) are still alive for a practical reason. Other than the 4 left with the Others, they were the strongest characters with the most development. Now that the cast is split into two parts, who cares about seeing what happens to Bernard, Rose, Claire, Charlie, et al? Even if Sayid, Jin, and Sun rejoin them, I don't see them as capable of holding much viewer interest.

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Daoust

I was generally impressed with last nights episode, and I've had fun rambling around the internet reading up on everyones theories about what has happened and will happen in Lost.

A few pointers.

I don't think it matters what language the guys in the boat/plane thing at the end of the show were speaking.

I heard on another site that Michael and Walt only make guest appearances on Lost next season. That still could be enough to wrap up at least Michaels character.

Desmond has only served the function of information giver. He can never stay around too long because all he does is give info to us. So he comes in and goes out randomly, giving information when the viewers need it. I predict Desmond is either dead or comatose and only comes out once more to give a bit more info.

I don't feel Eko and Locke are dead. They're too central.

I hated the ending bit with junkie/LOTR guy and preggo Aussie chick. That was lame.

I'll be glued to LOST next season too. I'm stoked for season three, even though I will find the stupid 7 episodes then long break then more episodes thing VERY annoying.

__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

Mondak

Maybe someone can correct me / confirm this but, I don't know that Michael has been connected to anyone else. I mean everyone seems to have a previous connection that they may or may not be aware of (Jacks Dad / Sawyer, Libby / Desmond etc.)

I suspect if we see him it could be in flashbacks.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

heywatsup

i wanna know wat the hell the foot means!!!
good episode though, but it will be a long time between drinks now

fresnelly

Right, so almost a week late, I finally got to see the finale.

I predict Michael will be back and have a chance to redeem himself. It's a main theme of the show after all, Jack and Co. need to be rescued (see below), and Walt's "powers" have yet to be fully explored.

I also believe that Ecko, Locke and Desmond are not dead. You can't just introduce Des' girl as a powerful new player without having him around in some capacity. But what capacity will that be? It could be something as mundane as a coma, but I'm betting on something more sensational; like teleportation or true purgatory. Maybe that midget from Twin Peaks will show up to sort things out.

My bet (hope) for season three, is that we'll also see more off-island activity as we follow Pen and her crew around. Plus, the Hanso Foundation shenanigans that've been uncovered through the websites will be folded into the plot.

As for Jack and Co., I have faith that they have a kick-ass plan that includes being captured. The scene in the forest where Michael's sins are exposed, and Jack says he has a plan but we don't get to hear it because of the editing, was a classic Scooby-Doo wind-up. I interpreted those fateful looks between the castaways at the end, to be full steely resolve, so I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

It's going to be a great opener. Think Luke Skywalker and Han Solo's rescue from the begining of Return of the Jedi. (Michael = Lando Calrissian?)

One more thought: Henry Gale is definitly this season's "Him" and the leader of the Others on the Island. But there's always someone higher, and we'll learn more about him/her/it/them over the course of next season while the off-island world takes shape.

Hell, Joopy, the 150 year old Oranguotang could be calling the shots. I doubt the Others are stricty a rogue operation cut off from the outside world. Of course there's always the possibility of a Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow scenario. That'd be cool too.

How much fun is this!

Grasshopper Green

It's with great restraint I didn't read anything in this thread...I've only just found Lost...hubby bought the first season on DVD and I've watched half of the first season episodes, and I'm thoroughly addicted. I've never been addicted to a TV show before, and after I watch all the first season, the second one won't be out on DVD until October...aaaaaaaagh! Hopefully I can join season 3's thread

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

Strictly speaking, you don't have to wait until October...

*cough*bittorrent*cough*

Jove

Actually, Len Cordova was the guy speaking Portugese, not Matthew Fox.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0502653/

Also, I was listening to a Podcast of the two writers of Lost being interviewed and they were discussing Season 3 is going to be more about the history of the island, the others and why they are on the island.

Also, on the Podcast, they told the interviewer not to think to much about the four toed statue because it is just on the island. And they suggest we have seen the smoke monster several times in season 2, but we are un-aware of it. Any clues?

But, I am going to continue to question why a statue is on the island, where the smoke monster has been and who is going to rescue Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

fresnelly

Okay, this correlation regarding the big 4-toed foot statue is strictly for entertainment value:

On last night's Family Guy episode, Peter tries to prevent Quagmire's wedding by bringing him a foot from the Statue of Liberty. This being a cartoon, it had only 4 toes! Later, Adam West comes apon the statue and falls to his knees, acting out Charleton Heston's finale from Planet of The Apes.

Coincidence???

So much to ponder.