DownwardSpiral

Yeah, but you can only imagine who they'll cut next. I mean with the way they've been cutting the rosters in the past months, who knows,

__________________
"So Keep on Pretending.
Our Heavens Worth the Waiting.
Keep on Pretending.
It's Alright."

-- H.I.M., "Pretending"

pan6467

Well, I think financially the WWE may be hurting, that could be one reason. Another could be they are purging locker room poison. Although I don't see Molly Holly being that.

Personally, I think McMahon needs real competition. 3 way to do that:

- TNA getting true national television exposure on a cable station and not just do those PPV.

- Ted Turner and company to either buy TNA or start their own venture again once the AOL/Time Warner no compete clause comes up.

- Or the biggest possibility, McMahon divides the company back into 3 segments ECW, WCW and WWE and puts Heyman/Tommy Dreamer, Bischoff/Hogan/maybe Austin and himself/Steph/JR in charge of each and lets them just run their own company. Have their own PPVs, their own talent, their own tours etc. Make them in "competition" of each other again.

The 90's proved that all 3 if managed properly and with the right coverage can make BIG HUGE money. But as a single entity it gets bogged down and the talent gets lost.

Imagine Monday/Thursday Night Wars again: RAW on Spike, WCW on UPN, and ECW on USA. Have each brand a legitimate entity to itself, where they make their own money, television and talent deals, etc. Maybe every now and then have crossovers.

Add excitement back to the wrestling business, make it so that people WANT to watch and see who is going to change feds, or who is going to bad mouth who. Make it like it was when wrestling was bigger than life..... you had to watch on Mondays and Thursdays because you never knew what would happen next.

You have to go with what works and right now McMahon is playing it too safe and the shows aren't must see like they used to be.

He tried this with Smackdown, but there's that true competition of shows missing. Everyone knows it all WWE and who is in charge and it's all white bread and no filler.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Mr. Spacemonkey

I don't know about the other guys, but I just read that apparently she was the one who approached WWE management about getting her release.

I saw this posted on Matt Hardy's website by someone:

Sounds like she wasn't too happy about the divas getting paid more money than the actual wrestlers. Either way, it still stands, Vince keeps on getting dumber. It still boggles the mind as to why released Matt Hardy. He had so much potential. I don't really care about Molly Holly, I just think it's funny that she walked out on the WWE.

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"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

Mr. Spacemonkey

Oh yeah, I don't know if anyone caught this, I had to read about it. But in the Hurricane/Rosey vs. Triple H match after Hurricane went off the top rope, right before he attempted to go up again he threw up the V1 sign. Did anyone see that? Interesting.

Also, just read this too:

Just read that on the Matt Hardy site too, lol. Apparently that's a good place to get information. Don't know how reliable it is though. If it's true, then I think the comment by the agent is the funniest. "he's an internet guy, we don't need that." Yeah, because he talks with his fans on his internet forum, they don't "need that." Wow, funny stuff.

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"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

DownwardSpiral

Yeah, I also read that Molly went to them about her release. As far as Jesus goes, his release was due to his injuries, pretty much. And the Chilly Willy guy was released because he hadn't been coming along as well as they'd hoped. Haven't heard anything else about more releases though. And as far as the comments about him being an 'internet guy' well, yeah hes an intenet guy. Fan interaction is a good thing. And him not drawing money wasn't really his fault either. If WWE had used him better, he'd have drawn mor money. I mean the guy has an insane fanbase, even if he was only a midcard wrestler in WWE. If they only made him Main Event status, he couldve brought in more money, in my opinion.

__________________
"So Keep on Pretending.
Our Heavens Worth the Waiting.
Keep on Pretending.
It's Alright."

-- H.I.M., "Pretending"

evilbeefchan

How many times has Flair pulled that bloody face turn? And why do I keep falling for it!?

DownwardSpiral

Yeah, I called that whole thing as it was happening, was way too predictable.

__________________
"So Keep on Pretending.
Our Heavens Worth the Waiting.
Keep on Pretending.
It's Alright."

-- H.I.M., "Pretending"

evilbeefchan

Anyone's thoughts on the upcoming ECW "One Night Stand" PPV? If anything, I'm glad they spent some time to develop a reasoning for holding the PPV. Not sure if it will do well, but I will be watching.

Coll Storm

Lance Storm vs. Chris Jericho is going to be a very big match for me. I can't wait for ECW: One Night Stand, but my fear is that the WWE will find some way to ruin it, like most of their PPV's.

keyshawn

After being out of the wrestling scene since Mid 2001 [the failed invasion]; I heard about this PPV, and decided to watch it, thanks to a.b.pro-wrestling.

Wow. I was quite impressed with this, the type of product that the promotions were putting out during the glory years. All the matches were solid, loved to see the luchadores in the ring again....

[Remember to use spoiler tags if necessary !!]

Spoiler: The appearance of austin came off a bit desperate to me, but they could have screwed up a lot worse...


Anyone want to discuss their thoughts on ONS ?

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pan6467

Well we enter a new "old" era of Raw on USA.... tonight's show was pretty good, Austin giving the whole McMahon family the stunner was pretty cool. They are definately off to a good start, let's just hope McMahon can keep the momentum going.

I truly love when wrestling shows the older guys and pays homage to those that came before.

On a side note, Jerry The King Lawler was one of the greatest ever to be in the ring and to see him not in the ring or getting his "props" as such, being stuck behind the announcers mic is kind of sad to watch.

In the 80's and early 90's there were the big 3 Flair, Hogan and Lawler.... Flair and Hogan always get called all these accolades about how great they are..... but I would like to see the WWE truly show a tribute to how great the King was and not just have him as this comic charicature that he has become where many newer fans have no idea how truly great he was.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ShaniFaye

I was hoping somebody would dig this up. Last nite was the first nite I've ENJOYED wathcing wrestling since they left USA. Of course Roddy being there in his kilt was a huge thrill.

I'd honstely forgotten how much I missed Stone Cold

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

pan6467

I missed Piper and Foley were they good?

the ending seemed rushed from Smackdown stars, Hogan and on ...... like they were running out of time so they had to cut those.

I think Austin/McMahon family went a bit long.... and Linda looks bad....

HHH and Flair went long also.

I am not a big fan of Cena, feel they pushed him too fast. He's too arrogant.

But overall great show, the Angle HBK battle was great.

Let's just hope WWE can keep the momentum going now.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

I didn't watch the whole show, I'm just catching a little of the re-run now, I must say seeing Dusty Rhodes, Hacksaw Jim Dugan and the Von Erich guy beat up that guy who tried stealing their thunder was great, and then for Jimmy 'Super Fly' Snuka to fly off the top rope again, well that was just great.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Mr. Spacemonkey

How could they not be? Foley's awesome, Piper's cool.

Yeah, but that's not a bad thing in my opinion. I'm bored with Hogan. Doesn't he usually take around 30 minutes to pose anyway? And the Cena vs. Bischoff thing was funny but pretty stupid/predictable too.

Pan, I'm not a big fan of Cena either. He has an annoying gimmick and isn't showing a lot of skill. Not that he doesn't have any skills, he's just not showing any. He's being held back by the gimmick.

The Angle vs HBK match was probably the best match of the night.

I also really enjoyed the Matt vs Edge Latter match. I was really hoping Matt would win though because he's a great wrestler. Not great on the mic though. Edge is great on the mic, but has the worst looking spear ever.

HHH and Flair. Predictable ... but in a really good way. I mean, that's the HHH we all love to see ... or hate.

__________________
"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

pan6467

I know it sounds old school and wouldn't sell but I'd like to see a special of the old guys just interviewed and having clips of some of their bigger matches aired.

I keep hearing McMahon is trying to get a 24 hour WWE channel up and perhaps that will be a part of it.

I think it's sad that the industry just casts them out after their skills erode. I understand it and it's like any sport, but it's also entertainment and it would be cool to see where they are now and what they think of the industry and so on.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

True, I have always like Piper and Foley, it's a shame Piper and McMahon can't get along and work together for longer periods of time. Not that Piper maybe able to wrestle anymore but as an announcer, manager or interviewer the man has some massive talent.

True, Hogan does tend to get long winded and pose, but he did make wrestling and has a charisma and fire that still kicks ass. A Stone Cold and Hogan match would be killer. Make it a 3 way by adding HBK and try to make it a fatal 4 way by getting Hart, the Rock or the Undertaker and all put everything they had into it, it would become an instant classic. But if they do that

Ah to dream.

Yeah, the hip hop gangsta doesn't really do anything for me and it will probably stereotype him and he'll fade fast.

Always those 2 guys are the best showmen the WWE has right now, especially with Jericho and Van Dam missing. The intesity HBK has and the antics and facial expressions of Angle make them far superior. Plus they know how to sell moves and put a story in the squared circle... very few today can do that.

Hardy won't be gone long, I keep looking for the match where Lita turns on Edge and goes back to Matt...... it's one of those where you know it's coming but when.

Edge and Hardy if they worked on their respective weaknesses, (as you listed them and I agree), could become the next HBK, Austin, Hogan superstars.

But the Tables, Ladders and Chairs matches also will take their toll and these guys are going to be hurting as they age. Those matches also are nice but to keep doing them over and over limits the rest of what you can do, and when you have the same opponent each time the matches are very predictable. Unless you're Foley and have a cage.... that guy fucking mangles his body to tell the story and does so in such a way you think he's going to come out paralyzed or dead and every match is different. I'll never forget top of the cage head first into the announcer's table.... DAMN.

Flair and HHH are great, wish HHH would let out some of his humor like he did back in the early days. Now he acts to serious but he is awesome to watch. And Flair? Well Flair will always be a great sell artist. How can he get flipped into the rope, turn around and drop face first into the mat, this match?

As an aside, the biggest problem I have with McMahon's WWE right now is he allows the blade way, way too much.... I mean 10 years ago you very rarely saw blood and if you did it was legit.... now you have a blader at least once in every show.

McMahon really knew how to build the product also, use Hogan to get the kids and then as the kids aged and became more rebellious and extreme, move the product that way..... (of course Heyman and ECW and to some degree Bischoof pushed him into it, but he has taken off with it.)

In a few years he'll start all over again, bring out the comic bookers, then grow and cycle through another set of kids.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Daval

WWE on-demand 24/7 is up and running at least through Rogers Cable in Ontario, Canada

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

silent_jay

I would love to see that, I just don't know who half the wrestlers are anymore, and the matches just don't seem as interesting as they used to be. I'd love to see some of my favorites from when I was a kid, but you're right it probably wouldn't sell that well. Who was that guy who came out and interrupted the legends anyways? I've never seen him before. I kind of wanted to see Hacksaw whach him over the head with the 2X4 for old times.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

pan6467

It's sad these fans won't know the Hacksaw 2x4 or the Million Dollar Sleeper, or see Macho man do a flying elbow off the top rope and mic work (ooooooo yeahhhhhh), or even the FrankenSteiner. Or how about a Bushwacker forehead lick?

The 80's and 90's had such great stars and McMahon pretty much built them up. Just great in ring and out of ring showmen and a roster so deep that it was unfreakingbelieveable.

Today, so many wrestlers just don't have it. I think that's why they keep bringing Hogan and Foley and Flair and Taker and Piper back. If they could just get Macho to freaking come back.... him and Curt Hennig (Mr. PerrrrrrrrFect) are my all time favorites.

Even the annoncers lack fun, don't get me wrong, I love Lawler (he can be funny as Hell) but give me a Bobby The Brain Heenan, Mean Gene, even Jesse Ventura and Vince McMahon behind the mic doing interviews or play by play.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ShaniFaye

I actually miss Bobby the Brain. I liked Curt too....it was a sad day when he died. It was SO great to see Mean Gene!!!

I cant think of a wrestler in "todays" group that I actually enjoy watching. I guess Im too old school...I even miss the NWO

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

silent_jay

Bobby the Brain was great, I didn't even know Curt was dead until you mentioned it Shani, that really sucks. Mean Gene hasn't changed so good to see him, and Koko B Ware. I saw Jesse on The Big Idea with Donny Deutsche, does he ever look different now, got some hair back and his goatee has to long braids in it, he was the coolest looking ex-governor ever. I'm the same way, give me the old school wrestlers over these new ones any day.

I was watching wrestling a while ago when Road Warrior Animal was in the ring and arguing back and forth witth another tag team I'm not too sure which one though, and they challenged Animal to a tag match and then made fun of him because his tag partner was dead, that had to be the most tasteless I have ever seen wrestling get.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Mr. Spacemonkey

A lot of the wrestlers today seem to lack the charisma of wrestlers from the days of when it was WCW vs WWE. I don't know if I'd say that today's wrestlers don't have it. I would say that it looks like McMahon is putting too many restrictions on them. Instead of just giving a wrestler the mic and letting them improvise a bit, the wrestlers look like they are reading off an entire script word by word. I don't know if McMahon is to blame for not giving them the freedom earlier wrestlers had or if they are to blame for not taking it into their own hands and just running with it.

It looks to me like Vince is playing it a little too safe here. Now that he pretty much owns all the competition and has nothing to fear, he's not taking risks anymore (like he did back in the attitude era when they were pushing the envelope). Back when he had competition he was forced to take risks because WCW just came in out of nowhere with their unlimited budget and starting taking all of the best wrestlers. This in turn forced Vince to be innovative and those risks paid off big time.

Of course, the fact that they have bad writers doesn't exactly help either. The tag team was MNM, and they are actually pretty good. They need to stop bringing back the old wrestlers. Think creative and build up new stars.


I guess all we can hope for is some good competition to give WWE a run for their money. The closest thing to that right now is TNA.

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"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

pan6467

I agree, I don't know if Vince has semi-retired and given the reigns to Steph and HHH like some of the websites say, or if he just has become so complacent he lost his focus.

Even before WCW became huge, McMahon knew what sold, now it seems he doesn't care or he just can't figure it out.

But I also believe it's the talent, he's focusing on the wrong people. You don't have anyone being pushed hard out there with the charisma or staying power of Hogan, HBK, Taker, Macho Man, Flair, Foley, Austin, the Rock, even Bret Hart and Angle.

HHH is close but as the headliner and main man all the time it gets old. Cena appeals to one segment of the audience, JBL just sucks, and that's what is being pushed.

The wrestlers who have true talent in and out of the ring and have the charisma that could make wrestling great again, disappear or are given small roles.

Jericho..... HUGE don't know the problem but he has it... wish they would have majorly pushed him, but it was like HHH was scared of him and thus Jericho was undercarded. I truly believe Jericho could have been as big if not bigger than anyone, since Hogan. Maybe Jericho did it to himself and just didn't want it.

Rob Van Dam.... another great but the years of ECW took its toll on him, if he could've stayed healthy and gotten a "Cena"-like push..... he could've been a true major force.

Batista..... may have a shot, a little more experience and some mic training.

Giant..... the man's a monster but they hold him back.

McMahon has the talent, he just is pushing the wrong people right now and it's puzzling because he always knew who to sell and how to sell them.

And I do believe Jerry Jarrett and TNA may just come alive with Spike and be the next WCW. Their problem is money and finding just 1 big superstar who can really get them some attention.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

evilbeefchan

RIP Eddie.

holtmate

Ditto...I remember the Owen Hart tribute show, and that was pretty emotional...I have a feeling this week will be about as bad.

Plus, Batista got hurt last week. Smackdown is in trouble with a PPV coming up in two weeks. I am curious to see how they handle it.

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"Give her your coat"
"Why me?"
"Because you're perfect."
"You have a point there."

Reese

So sad about Eddie Guerrero, I've loved and hated him for years! RIP Latino Heat!

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“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

keyshawn

Sunday afternoon,
a buddy of mine in the dorm [he knows that I'm the only other person that's even semi-interested in wrestling besides him at school] stormed up to my room, fevershly knocking. I asked him - what's the biggie ?

And the news was broken.
So was a part of me.
The nostalgia I held for those great matches and excitement, that he was a part of, during the wcw heydays; was gone. It was a reminder, though, of how fluid the careers of wrestlers are, and that they pretty much sacrifice their lives for it.

Has there been any official cause for his death ?

catcha back on the flipside,
will.

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