Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - Page 4 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cardinal Syn · 07-26-2005, 06:13 AM

Thats what i thought Kostya

Charlatan · 07-26-2005, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostya

How about this for a mindfuck: Spoiler: Harry is the final Horcrux! Hence the 'neither can live while one survives' prophecy!

Well it's a theory anyway...

While that would be cool, I just don't see it happening in this particular series...

ICER · 07-26-2005, 08:08 AM

OK. It took me awhile to think about the whole thing. And here is a few opinions on the matter Spoiler: 1. DD and Snape kind of worked out a quick plan on the tower a few seconds before Snape let loose with the curse. Let us not forget that Snape was very well versed in the art of Occlumecy. Which DD knew very well. So (IMO) in the seconds before he let loose. DD thought of a plan that he knew Snape would read. That would be DD style. What that plan is. I do not know. But I am willing to bet, That DD is not dead. But merely faked it some how. So that Draco can fulfill his mission. Snape would fulfill his oath. A LV would be convinced of Snape’s total loyalty and he would make an even more effective double agent.

Spoiler: That theory would fit Rowling's writing style of miss direction unless you pay very close attention to all the little settle undertones. Heck. For most of the book. I thought that Draco was using the Poly juice to turn into Tonks. and that's how he was getting in and out of the castle.

Charlatan · 07-26-2005, 09:19 AM

Spoiler: I am on the fence as to whether or not Dumbledore is really dead or not. I am fairly certain, unless they found a loop hole in the oath, that Snape was bound by the curse to kill Dumbledore.

It is possible that he spoke to Dumbledore about this oath and that they made a plan together, a plan that would see Snape drawn into Voldemort's side as his favourite.

Potter gets to kill Voldemort with Snape's assistance but more imortantly he gets to learn how to forgive Snape for his past actions. A powerful ending...

If Dumbledore is still alive I think a) he did die for a little while (deals with the oath), b) he and Snape worked this out in advance, c) I live the theory above that has him transfigure into a phoenix - very symbolic and d) this will not be revealed until very late in the final book.

Lasereth · 07-26-2005, 10:29 AM

Spoiler: Why does everyone think Dumbledore is not dead? Rowling is obviously not afraid to take the series to extremes (Black in book 5). It'd be incredibly cheesy to make Dumbledore still alive. Death creates IMMENSE emotion and drama in books, almost to the point where a book lacking some form of death doesn't feel complete to me. Sure, Rowling has pulled a few tricks in the series, but I sure as hell hope she doesn't cop out and bring back Dumbledore. He was one of the best characters in the series; I hate to see him go, but it does add an incredible amount of intensity for the final book.

-Lasereth

Charlatan · 07-26-2005, 11:07 AM

Lasereth... spoliers tags please.... (just put the words spoiler and /spoiler in square brackets at the beginning and end of your post)

Spoiler: I am on the fence on this one for two reasons... one the death is important for the reasons you mention as well as the fact that young Potter is forced to act as a man (he comes of age next book) and have no parental support (kind of like Giles leaving Buffy to fend for herself).

I also think it would be just magical, fun and an interesting twist to see Dumbledore come back... for me it would all depend on how the twist plays out.

Ultimately I tend you agree that he is best left dead... it is powerful event....

guthmund · 07-26-2005, 11:37 AM

Spoiler: Zombie Dumbledore???

ICER · 07-26-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guthmund

Spoiler: Zombie Dumbledore???

Spoiler: Now there a infrai (sp?) that Harry would think twice about fighting. and LV is evil enough to do it. I like.

Lasereth · 07-26-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Lasereth... spoliers tags please.... (just put the words spoiler and /spoiler in square brackets at the beginning and end of your post)

I changed it, even though 75% of this thread is spoilers anyway so anyone coming in here is prepared for the worst.

-Lasereth

FoolThemAll · 07-26-2005, 03:38 PM

On the current subject, there's something that Rowling had to say that is of much relevance:

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/art...iontransc.html

Quote:

JKR: Well, it would be nice, but I’ll tell you something. You’ve raised a really interesting point there, Peter, because when I started writing the books, the first thing I had to decide was not what magic can do, but what it can’t do. I had to set limits on it immediately and decide what the perimeters are. One of the most important things I decided was that magic cannot bring dead people back to life. That’s one of the most profound things. The natural laws of death applies to wizards as it applies to Muggles and there is no returning once you’re properly dead. You know, they might be able to save very close to death people better than we can, by magic. They have certain knowledge we don’t, but once you’re dead, you’re dead. So, yeah, I’m afraid there will be no coming back for Harry’s parents.

I don't think anyone's going to come back from the dead. Although the ghost thing might be a possibility.

ShaniFaye · 07-26-2005, 03:52 PM

hmmm she says "properly dead" wonder if that means

Charlatan · 07-26-2005, 04:11 PM

I noticed that too... I think the dead character will remain so...

FrellingSmeg · 07-29-2005, 12:06 AM

I just finished the book. It took a little longer to hook me than the others did. But the last 200 pages were pure gold.

Spoiler: I'm pretty sure Dumbledore is dead. But have no fear, I am sure he will be back in the next book as Dumbledore the White.

-----

Spoiler: I think Dumbledore had to die, for the same reason Obi-Wan had to die. Just as it wasn't Obi-wan's destiny to kill redeem Vader and kill the emporer; It isn't Dunbledore's destiny to kill Voldemort. Both of these men were great and powerful, but their power was waning. By striking down Dumbledore, Voldemort has made him more powerful that he can possible imagine. I see two possibilities. Either Dumbledore and Snape worked out a plan where Snape makes Dumbedore a martyr by killing him infront of Harry. Or Snape is truly evil and struck out at the man who has shown him such kindness. I think it will be the latter of these two possibilities. I like that idea better, because I think Dumbledore played Snape like the fool he was. He kept Snape around, because he knew Snape would kill him some day. He needed to die at the hands of Voldemort's lackies because he needed to give Harry the focus necessary to rise up and defeat Voldemort. His death will not be in vain. It will be the turning point of the war, and that is the way he wanted it.

On a different note, I didn't think I was going to like these books. But I guess I was wrong.

Sweetpea · 07-29-2005, 07:45 PM

I was blown away, these books just keep getting better and better!!The ending was .... wow! who knew Snape was like that all along . . . it was forcasted somewhat in previous books, but still came as a surprise!

I can't wait for the conclusion book!

Sweetpea

FrellingSmeg · 07-29-2005, 07:46 PM

Spoiler: The more I think about it, the more I think Dumbledore and Snape planned this. Reread the part where Dumbledore pleads with Snape. Dumbledore hadn't been pleading for his life up to that part. He was asking Snape to kill him.

Yakk · 08-18-2005, 08:43 AM

WARNING: may spoil book 7

Spoiler: Dumbledore died. Dumbledore is gone. Dumbledore knew that in order to live, Snape had to die -- and Snape's life mattered more.

Dumbledore knew Snape's oath. Dumbledore knew that Snape had to die, or kill Dumbledore. Dumbledore stated "there are worse things than death", and truely believes it.

That was what the "Please" was. "Please kill me, you are more important than I am". By killing Dumbledore, Voldemort will now trust Snape more than he trusts any other living being. But Voldemort has a weakness.

Voldemort does not understand love.

Remember the Occulmancy practice? Snape hid 3 memories from Potter, one of which Harry saw. In that memory, Harry saw James sadistically tormenting Snape, and Harry's mother protecting Snape from James.

Why was that memory hidden from Harry? Was it mere pride? I claim the 3 memories hidden in the pool during the Occulmancy practice where placed there because Snape dared not risk Vodemort seeing them. And Harry could not see them until he to was capable of defening his mind against Voldemort.

What about that memory could Snape not want Voldemort to know? That Snape has no reason to hate Lily, Harry's mother -- but rather, a reason to feel tender towards her. The other two memories probably contain evidence that is even more incriminating.

Snape loved Lily. Dumbledore saw the 3 memories that Snape hid from Potter, which convinced him of this love. Voldemort killed the love of Snape's life.

Snape feels hate for Harry because Harry is a reminder that the love of Snape's life fell for James, a complete asshole and jerk. Harry even looks like James, but has Lily's eyes -- it probably tears Snape up every time he looks at Harry. At the same time, Snape will not harm Harry, because Harry is the only thing of his love that is left.

Voldemort will be undone by love. Snape's love for Harry's mother.

And yes, Harry must die for Voldemort to die. Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. This is why there won't be a book after book 7, this is why Voldemort's death spells don't work on Harry, and why emotions and thoughts leak between them.

Snape has never harmed Harry. Snape has been hard on Harry, insulting to Harry, and mean to Harry. Shucks, Snape could have destroyed Harry -- look how easily he defended against Harry's attacks -- but even prevented the other Death Eaters from killing Harry at the end of the book.

Redlemon · 08-18-2005, 09:10 AM

I like your take on this, Yakk.

Charlatan · 08-18-2005, 09:16 AM

I really like your take Yakk but think this

Spoiler: And yes, Harry must die for Voldemort to die. Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. This is why there won't be a book after book 7, this is why Voldemort's death spells don't work on Harry, and why emotions and thoughts leak between them.

while logical goes too far for this series.

Spoiler: I don't think it is reasonable to expect that Harry would die at the end of book 7.

Yakk · 08-18-2005, 09:50 AM

WARNING: may spoil book 7

Spoiler: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3566812.stm

Quote:

Spoiler: She told them her eponymous hero would "survive to book seven" but refused to confirm whether he would grow up to be a wizard."

Harry Potter will die in book 7.

More evidence for my various positions:

Spoiler: http://www.answers.com/topic/harry-potter-book-seven

Quote:

Spoiler: Lupin will play a big part in this book, as will Lily's back-story.

I swear I've seen Rowling been quoted, when asked if there would be books about Harry's adulthood, something along the lines of "why do you think Harry will still be alive after the end of the books?

So, I'm pretty certain.

Stiltzkin · 08-21-2005, 10:08 PM

Just remember kids, http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/

Charlatan · 08-22-2005, 04:53 AM

That was a good read. If you match this guy's theories of Spoiler: Dumbledore's faked death with Spoiler: Snape's love of Lilly I think you have a *very* solid story.

Yakk · 08-23-2005, 06:13 AM

Humbug.

I agree that Spoiler: Dumbledore arranged Snape to attack him, but given the statement Spoiler: that there are worse things that can happen than death that Rowling would allow Spoiler: Dumbledore's sacrafice to be erased. It just seems like a Spoiler: cheap gimmic to have the death be reversed.

We are coming up on the last book. Events like Spoiler: the death of Dumbledore help highlight the huge amount of importance to what is at stake.

While the Spoiler: Dumbledore is not dead page has some good points, I refuse to swallow it...

The best points that page has are:
* Spoiler: Unforgiveable curses require that you mean them.
* Spoiler: The body was never seen after it was lieing on the ground.
and finally
* Spoiler: The difference between the US and UK editions of the book.

So it maybe has a point. But if the page is right, then the books are worse than if the page is wrong.

shakran · 08-23-2005, 03:20 PM

Spoiler (do we really need spoilertext anymore? Hasn't everyone read it by now?)

<span style="background-color:White;color:White;">Am I the only one not surprised that Dumbledore died? I saw it coming from the 2nd book when it became obvious Harry had to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore is so far and away more powerful than Harry that it just wouldn't make sense to send Harry off to kill the most powerful bad guy in the wizard world unless Dumbledore's out of the picture. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if he somehow comes back after Voldemort dies.

</span>

Poloboy · 08-24-2005, 03:13 PM

To the people that are angry at Rowling: Spoiler: Think about it a second. Potter's almost 17. Until present, she has depicted him as a boy. Over the course of this one book she needed him to become a young man. When Dumbledore was emergying from the cave, he was likely the weakest he had been in his entire life, yet he stated he had no anxiety because he was with Harry. She spent the entire book establishing Dumbledore's faith in Harry as an individual and an adult to inspire the same faith in her readers. The most effective way to culminate this maturation was for his last remaining parent figure to die. I hope he doesn't come back like Gandalf did. I'm curious where Rowling will draw the missing comic relief from, though. Dumbledore's jokes seemed to play the equivalent of Shakespeare's knave: subtle jokes that offered more insight than the other characters cared to notice.

As for the seventh book, Spoiler: I'm really drawn to Yakk's idea about Lily. I need to reread the previous books before making stronger guesses on the ending. Given Harry's philosophic thoughts at the end though, when he recalls the people that have died out of love to save him (his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore) I think this was a clue to Snape's role in the seventh book. Harry won't need to "convert" him Darth Vader style. Rather, Snape (of his own accord) will sacrifice his life, allowing Harry to complete his quest killing Voldemort. Perhaps out of love of Lily (as Yakk suggested), or out of some yet unrevealed love. It would fit with Rowling's permeating theme of "yay for Love" and would also highlight Dumbledore's often-criticized insistence in looking for the good in people. As a finish to the series, it would let Rowling preach the power of love and looking for the good in people, which seems to be the goal of the series as a whole (as far as I can tell).

spongy · 08-24-2005, 07:25 PM

My wife and i are now in book 2 and I am impressed at how much things I took for granted in the first read end up playing out. Like the fact that the flying Harley that Hagrid rode to deliver Harry to Privet Drive was borrowed from Sirius Black.These books fit very well together, and i highly recommend going back and re-reading them.

As far as book 7, I wonder what part Draco will play.. I wonder if he will turn from his wicked ways, or be crushed by Voldemort.. or... I could go on. He is almost starting to remind me of Feyd from dune.. seemed to be a rival at first.. then kinda petered out.

Strange Famous · 09-04-2005, 01:04 PM

The only thing I know for sure is that the HBP is on the side of good

spongy · 09-05-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

The only thing I know for sure is that the HBP is on the side of good

That's all I'm saying.

Charlatan · 09-06-2005, 05:45 AM

It would be lame if he wasn't...

Strange Famous · 09-09-2005, 01:23 PM

yeah, he's a pretty hardcore son of a bitch.

Spoiler: If the Half Blood Price wasnt on the side of good, it would mean AD was just completely tricked by him... which just doesnt fit in with anything else in the book. Plus, even after he hit AD with the AK, he saved Harry from the other DE, and gave him advise as he fled... he made the unbreakable curse because Dumbledore has already made him promise he would do it if it came to it... thats what they were arguing about that time when Hagrid overheard.

I think its pretty likely that the Half Blood Prince will die in some heroic way to save Harry and tip the balance against Tom Riddle... it seems to be the way of things, but maybe cos its such an obvious path JK wont follow it.

ShaniFaye · 09-21-2005, 09:57 AM

theory

Spoiler: If you go look at your copy of HP5 there's a chapter about the kids (Ron, Hermione, the twins, Harry and Ginnie) helping Mrs. Weasley clean out #12 Grimmauld Place. . . . and they find a bunch of stuff in a wardrobe, including a locket that won't open! I think that's the horcrux - Regulus stole it out from Voldy and brought it home and hid it there.

Yakk · 09-21-2005, 12:04 PM

Grr! You tease.

Spoiler: What chapter -- and is there a way for the scrawl in the locket Harry has to refer to Regulus?

florida0214 · 09-23-2005, 11:22 AM

cant there be a thread where you can discuss the book without all the white. Kind of put a disclaimer on it. Sorry but reading this thread will ruin Half blood prince for you. I woudl love to discuss the book but it is rather difficult to discuss it withoout ruinging the book for anybody.

Yakk · 09-23-2005, 12:01 PM

florida, press ctrl-A, and all of the white is readable. =)

pig · 09-23-2005, 12:42 PM

As for Dumbledore, I'm wondering Spoiler: about the Mirror of Erised or something to that affect. Albus comes back, says he's proud of Harry, but he's still dead in the most Muggliest of senses. I personally think Harry will live, because otherwise I think 17 million 15 year olds are going to track down JKR and beat everliving tarnation out of her. What's the chance the Dumbledore had a Horcrux?

Ishmal · 09-23-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigglet

Spoiler: What's the chance the Dumbledore had a Horcrux?

i think the chances of that r low...

Spoiler: creating a Horcrux requires u to murder someone doesn't it???

Charlatan · 09-23-2005, 06:55 PM

Dumbledore does not have a horcrux for the reasons above

Charlatan · 11-19-2005, 10:56 AM

Spoiler: So it looks like it just might be Regulus just might be the RAB in the locket... the Dutch and Norwiegen versions of the book have been released and Black is spelled Zwarts in those books. RAB appears as RAZ.

As many of you know, in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, we learned of a character called R.A.B. that played a key role involving a locket and Voldemort's Horcrux. There has been a great deal of speculation and reports about the possible identity of that character. Yesterday, the Dutch version of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince was released, and the identity of the character is translated as "R.A.Z." The name Sirius Black is translated as Sirius "Zwarts", with a 'Z.' Please note: While this is NOT positive confirmation of who the character is ( most are speculating Regulus Black), it certainly is intriguing. Let the discussions begin again! Thanks to the many readers who wrote in.

This is from http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MT..._13.php#008026

Yakk · 11-21-2005, 12:48 PM

*laugh*, that's great Charlatan.

Too bad the website you linked has been killed.

Google cache has an extra link on that website: Spoiler: (link) where it mentions that Black is translated as Svaart, and R.A.B. is translated to R.A.S.

fresnelly · 12-20-2005, 08:04 PM

I was thinking about objects from the novels that could make for a good horcrux. What about Harry's Wand?

If I remember correctly, it shares a number of physical properties with Voldemort's, and "chose" Harry.

Just a random thought...

Poppinjay · 12-21-2005, 07:06 AM

The feather in Harry's wand came from the same Phoenix as the feather in Voldemort's wand. And I believe that Phoenix was Fawkes. I think Fawkes is going to continue to be meaningful in the final chapter. The wand as a horcrux is interesting, but I would think that would make a wand an incredibly fragile instrument. Horcrux's are supposed to be well protected. In Harry Potter books, expelliarmus curses are thrown around like nerf balls. Plus, Spoiler: Voldemort seemed bound and determined that each horcrux come from one of the houses of Hogwarts.

Spoiler: Dumbledore is most definitely dead, in the muggle sense. He showed up in a portrait in his old office. That doesn't mean he can't be consulted, just like the other headmasters and heads of house in their portraits. It just wouldn't make sense for a fake death. There's one book left, and in this last one Dumbledore was encouraging Harry more than ever to figure out how to do dangerous things by himself. Snape will play a part in bringing down Voldemort, but will die at the hands of Bellatrix-either by her informing on him or actually outright killing him. Lucius will die a cowardly death. Draco is still a wild card.

Another thing, and if this is a spoiler for anybody then they just aren't keeping up... In book four, when Voldemort summons his followers, all but one shows up. Voldemort says he'll deal with him later. Is that Snape? For not showing up, he seemed to arouse the wrath of Voldemort, Spoiler: but is seemingly his chosen one in book 6.

07-26-2005, 08:08 AM	#123 (permalink)
ICER Chilled to Perfection Location: Dallas, TX	OK. It took me awhile to think about the whole thing. And here is a few opinions on the matter Spoiler: 1. DD and Snape kind of worked out a quick plan on the tower a few seconds before Snape let loose with the curse. Let us not forget that Snape was very well versed in the art of Occlumecy. Which DD knew very well. So (IMO) in the seconds before he let loose. DD thought of a plan that he knew Snape would read. That would be DD style. What that plan is. I do not know. But I am willing to bet, That DD is not dead. But merely faked it some how. So that Draco can fulfill his mission. Snape would fulfill his oath. A LV would be convinced of Snape’s total loyalty and he would make an even more effective double agent. Spoiler: That theory would fit Rowling's writing style of miss direction unless you pay very close attention to all the little settle undertones. Heck. For most of the book. I thought that Draco was using the Poly juice to turn into Tonks. and that's how he was getting in and out of the castle. __________________ What's the difference between congress and a penitentiary? One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers and threats to society. The other is for housing prisoners. ~~David Letterman

07-26-2005, 09:19 AM	#124 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Spoiler: I am on the fence as to whether or not Dumbledore is really dead or not. I am fairly certain, unless they found a loop hole in the oath, that Snape was bound by the curse to kill Dumbledore. It is possible that he spoke to Dumbledore about this oath and that they made a plan together, a plan that would see Snape drawn into Voldemort's side as his favourite. Potter gets to kill Voldemort with Snape's assistance but more imortantly he gets to learn how to forgive Snape for his past actions. A powerful ending... If Dumbledore is still alive I think a) he did die for a little while (deals with the oath), b) he and Snape worked this out in advance, c) I live the theory above that has him transfigure into a phoenix - very symbolic and d) this will not be revealed until very late in the final book. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-26-2005, 10:29 AM	#125 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Spoiler: Why does everyone think Dumbledore is not dead? Rowling is obviously not afraid to take the series to extremes (Black in book 5). It'd be incredibly cheesy to make Dumbledore still alive. Death creates IMMENSE emotion and drama in books, almost to the point where a book lacking some form of death doesn't feel complete to me. Sure, Rowling has pulled a few tricks in the series, but I sure as hell hope she doesn't cop out and bring back Dumbledore. He was one of the best characters in the series; I hate to see him go, but it does add an incredible amount of intensity for the final book. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert Last edited by Lasereth; 07-26-2005 at 02:52 PM..

07-26-2005, 11:07 AM	#126 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Lasereth... spoliers tags please.... (just put the words spoiler and /spoiler in square brackets at the beginning and end of your post) Spoiler: I am on the fence on this one for two reasons... one the death is important for the reasons you mention as well as the fact that young Potter is forced to act as a man (he comes of age next book) and have no parental support (kind of like Giles leaving Buffy to fend for herself). I also think it would be just magical, fun and an interesting twist to see Dumbledore come back... for me it would all depend on how the twist plays out. Ultimately I tend you agree that he is best left dead... it is powerful event.... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-26-2005, 11:37 AM	#127 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Spoiler: Zombie Dumbledore??? __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

07-26-2005, 06:13 AM	#121 (permalink)
Cardinal Syn Insane Location: Arizona	Thats what i thought Kostya

07-26-2005, 03:52 PM	#131 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	hmmm she says "properly dead" wonder if that means __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

07-26-2005, 04:11 PM	#132 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I noticed that too... I think the dead character will remain so... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-29-2005, 12:06 AM	#133 (permalink)
FrellingSmeg Upright	I just finished the book. It took a little longer to hook me than the others did. But the last 200 pages were pure gold. Spoiler: I'm pretty sure Dumbledore is dead. But have no fear, I am sure he will be back in the next book as Dumbledore the White. ----- Spoiler: I think Dumbledore had to die, for the same reason Obi-Wan had to die. Just as it wasn't Obi-wan's destiny to kill redeem Vader and kill the emporer; It isn't Dunbledore's destiny to kill Voldemort. Both of these men were great and powerful, but their power was waning. By striking down Dumbledore, Voldemort has made him more powerful that he can possible imagine. I see two possibilities. Either Dumbledore and Snape worked out a plan where Snape makes Dumbedore a martyr by killing him infront of Harry. Or Snape is truly evil and struck out at the man who has shown him such kindness. I think it will be the latter of these two possibilities. I like that idea better, because I think Dumbledore played Snape like the fool he was. He kept Snape around, because he knew Snape would kill him some day. He needed to die at the hands of Voldemort's lackies because he needed to give Harry the focus necessary to rise up and defeat Voldemort. His death will not be in vain. It will be the turning point of the war, and that is the way he wanted it. On a different note, I didn't think I was going to like these books. But I guess I was wrong.

07-29-2005, 07:45 PM	#134 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	I was blown away, these books just keep getting better and better!!The ending was .... wow! who knew Snape was like that all along . . . it was forcasted somewhat in previous books, but still came as a surprise! I can't wait for the conclusion book! Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

07-29-2005, 07:46 PM	#135 (permalink)
FrellingSmeg Upright	Spoiler: The more I think about it, the more I think Dumbledore and Snape planned this. Reread the part where Dumbledore pleads with Snape. Dumbledore hadn't been pleading for his life up to that part. He was asking Snape to kill him.

08-18-2005, 08:43 AM	#136 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	WARNING: may spoil book 7 Spoiler: Dumbledore died. Dumbledore is gone. Dumbledore knew that in order to live, Snape had to die -- and Snape's life mattered more. Dumbledore knew Snape's oath. Dumbledore knew that Snape had to die, or kill Dumbledore. Dumbledore stated "there are worse things than death", and truely believes it. That was what the "Please" was. "Please kill me, you are more important than I am". By killing Dumbledore, Voldemort will now trust Snape more than he trusts any other living being. But Voldemort has a weakness. Voldemort does not understand love. Remember the Occulmancy practice? Snape hid 3 memories from Potter, one of which Harry saw. In that memory, Harry saw James sadistically tormenting Snape, and Harry's mother protecting Snape from James. Why was that memory hidden from Harry? Was it mere pride? I claim the 3 memories hidden in the pool during the Occulmancy practice where placed there because Snape dared not risk Vodemort seeing them. And Harry could not see them until he to was capable of defening his mind against Voldemort. What about that memory could Snape not want Voldemort to know? That Snape has no reason to hate Lily, Harry's mother -- but rather, a reason to feel tender towards her. The other two memories probably contain evidence that is even more incriminating. Snape loved Lily. Dumbledore saw the 3 memories that Snape hid from Potter, which convinced him of this love. Voldemort killed the love of Snape's life. Snape feels hate for Harry because Harry is a reminder that the love of Snape's life fell for James, a complete asshole and jerk. Harry even looks like James, but has Lily's eyes -- it probably tears Snape up every time he looks at Harry. At the same time, Snape will not harm Harry, because Harry is the only thing of his love that is left. Voldemort will be undone by love. Snape's love for Harry's mother. And yes, Harry must die for Voldemort to die. Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. This is why there won't be a book after book 7, this is why Voldemort's death spells don't work on Harry, and why emotions and thoughts leak between them. Snape has never harmed Harry. Snape has been hard on Harry, insulting to Harry, and mean to Harry. Shucks, Snape could have destroyed Harry -- look how easily he defended against Harry's attacks -- but even prevented the other Death Eaters from killing Harry at the end of the book. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest. Last edited by Yakk; 08-18-2005 at 01:28 PM..

08-18-2005, 09:10 AM	#137 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I like your take on this, Yakk. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

08-18-2005, 09:16 AM	#138 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I really like your take Yakk but think this Spoiler: And yes, Harry must die for Voldemort to die. Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. This is why there won't be a book after book 7, this is why Voldemort's death spells don't work on Harry, and why emotions and thoughts leak between them. while logical goes too far for this series. Spoiler: I don't think it is reasonable to expect that Harry would die at the end of book 7. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-21-2005, 10:08 PM	#140 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	Just remember kids, http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/

08-22-2005, 04:53 AM	#141 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	That was a good read. If you match this guy's theories of Spoiler: Dumbledore's faked death with Spoiler: Snape's love of Lilly I think you have a very solid story. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-23-2005, 06:13 AM	#142 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Humbug. I agree that Spoiler: Dumbledore arranged Snape to attack him, but given the statement Spoiler: that there are worse things that can happen than death that Rowling would allow Spoiler: Dumbledore's sacrafice to be erased. It just seems like a Spoiler: cheap gimmic to have the death be reversed. We are coming up on the last book. Events like Spoiler: the death of Dumbledore help highlight the huge amount of importance to what is at stake. While the Spoiler: Dumbledore is not dead page has some good points, I refuse to swallow it... The best points that page has are: * Spoiler: Unforgiveable curses require that you mean them. * Spoiler: The body was never seen after it was lieing on the ground. and finally * Spoiler: The difference between the US and UK editions of the book. So it maybe has a point. But if the page is right, then the books are worse than if the page is wrong. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

08-23-2005, 03:20 PM	#143 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Spoiler (do we really need spoilertext anymore? Hasn't everyone read it by now?) <span style="background-color:White;color:White;">Am I the only one not surprised that Dumbledore died? I saw it coming from the 2nd book when it became obvious Harry had to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore is so far and away more powerful than Harry that it just wouldn't make sense to send Harry off to kill the most powerful bad guy in the wizard world unless Dumbledore's out of the picture. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if he somehow comes back after Voldemort dies. </span>

08-24-2005, 03:13 PM	#144 (permalink)
Poloboy Insane Location: Canada	To the people that are angry at Rowling: Spoiler: Think about it a second. Potter's almost 17. Until present, she has depicted him as a boy. Over the course of this one book she needed him to become a young man. When Dumbledore was emergying from the cave, he was likely the weakest he had been in his entire life, yet he stated he had no anxiety because he was with Harry. She spent the entire book establishing Dumbledore's faith in Harry as an individual and an adult to inspire the same faith in her readers. The most effective way to culminate this maturation was for his last remaining parent figure to die. I hope he doesn't come back like Gandalf did. I'm curious where Rowling will draw the missing comic relief from, though. Dumbledore's jokes seemed to play the equivalent of Shakespeare's knave: subtle jokes that offered more insight than the other characters cared to notice. As for the seventh book, Spoiler: I'm really drawn to Yakk's idea about Lily. I need to reread the previous books before making stronger guesses on the ending. Given Harry's philosophic thoughts at the end though, when he recalls the people that have died out of love to save him (his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore) I think this was a clue to Snape's role in the seventh book. Harry won't need to "convert" him Darth Vader style. Rather, Snape (of his own accord) will sacrifice his life, allowing Harry to complete his quest killing Voldemort. Perhaps out of love of Lily (as Yakk suggested), or out of some yet unrevealed love. It would fit with Rowling's permeating theme of "yay for Love" and would also highlight Dumbledore's often-criticized insistence in looking for the good in people. As a finish to the series, it would let Rowling preach the power of love and looking for the good in people, which seems to be the goal of the series as a whole (as far as I can tell).

08-24-2005, 07:25 PM	#145 (permalink)
spongy Psycho	My wife and i are now in book 2 and I am impressed at how much things I took for granted in the first read end up playing out. Like the fact that the flying Harley that Hagrid rode to deliver Harry to Privet Drive was borrowed from Sirius Black.These books fit very well together, and i highly recommend going back and re-reading them. As far as book 7, I wonder what part Draco will play.. I wonder if he will turn from his wicked ways, or be crushed by Voldemort.. or... I could go on. He is almost starting to remind me of Feyd from dune.. seemed to be a rival at first.. then kinda petered out. __________________ The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Stephen King

09-04-2005, 01:04 PM	#146 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The only thing I know for sure is that the HBP is on the side of good __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

09-06-2005, 05:45 AM	#148 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It would be lame if he wasn't... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-09-2005, 01:23 PM	#149 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	yeah, he's a pretty hardcore son of a bitch. Spoiler: If the Half Blood Price wasnt on the side of good, it would mean AD was just completely tricked by him... which just doesnt fit in with anything else in the book. Plus, even after he hit AD with the AK, he saved Harry from the other DE, and gave him advise as he fled... he made the unbreakable curse because Dumbledore has already made him promise he would do it if it came to it... thats what they were arguing about that time when Hagrid overheard. I think its pretty likely that the Half Blood Prince will die in some heroic way to save Harry and tip the balance against Tom Riddle... it seems to be the way of things, but maybe cos its such an obvious path JK wont follow it. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas Last edited by Strange Famous; 09-09-2005 at 01:25 PM..

09-21-2005, 09:57 AM	#150 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	theory Spoiler: If you go look at your copy of HP5 there's a chapter about the kids (Ron, Hermione, the twins, Harry and Ginnie) helping Mrs. Weasley clean out #12 Grimmauld Place. . . . and they find a bunch of stuff in a wardrobe, including a locket that won't open! I think that's the horcrux - Regulus stole it out from Voldy and brought it home and hid it there. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-21-2005, 12:04 PM	#151 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Grr! You tease. Spoiler: What chapter -- and is there a way for the scrawl in the locket Harry has to refer to Regulus? __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

09-23-2005, 11:22 AM	#152 (permalink)
florida0214 Crazy Location: South Florida	cant there be a thread where you can discuss the book without all the white. Kind of put a disclaimer on it. Sorry but reading this thread will ruin Half blood prince for you. I woudl love to discuss the book but it is rather difficult to discuss it withoout ruinging the book for anybody.

09-23-2005, 12:01 PM	#153 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	florida, press ctrl-A, and all of the white is readable. =) __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

09-23-2005, 12:42 PM	#154 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	As for Dumbledore, I'm wondering Spoiler: about the Mirror of Erised or something to that affect. Albus comes back, says he's proud of Harry, but he's still dead in the most Muggliest of senses. I personally think Harry will live, because otherwise I think 17 million 15 year olds are going to track down JKR and beat everliving tarnation out of her. What's the chance the Dumbledore had a Horcrux? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

09-23-2005, 06:55 PM	#156 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Dumbledore does not have a horcrux for the reasons above __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-19-2005, 10:56 AM	#157 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Spoiler: So it looks like it just might be Regulus just might be the RAB in the locket... the Dutch and Norwiegen versions of the book have been released and Black is spelled Zwarts in those books. RAB appears as RAZ. As many of you know, in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, we learned of a character called R.A.B. that played a key role involving a locket and Voldemort's Horcrux. There has been a great deal of speculation and reports about the possible identity of that character. Yesterday, the Dutch version of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince was released, and the identity of the character is translated as "R.A.Z." The name Sirius Black is translated as Sirius "Zwarts", with a 'Z.' Please note: While this is NOT positive confirmation of who the character is ( most are speculating Regulus Black), it certainly is intriguing. Let the discussions begin again! Thanks to the many readers who wrote in. This is from http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MT..._13.php#008026 __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-21-2005, 12:48 PM	#158 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	laugh, that's great Charlatan. Too bad the website you linked has been killed. Google cache has an extra link on that website: Spoiler: (link) where it mentions that Black is translated as Svaart, and R.A.B. is translated to R.A.S. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

12-20-2005, 08:04 PM	#159 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	I was thinking about objects from the novels that could make for a good horcrux. What about Harry's Wand? If I remember correctly, it shares a number of physical properties with Voldemort's, and "chose" Harry. Just a random thought... __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

12-21-2005, 07:06 AM	#160 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	The feather in Harry's wand came from the same Phoenix as the feather in Voldemort's wand. And I believe that Phoenix was Fawkes. I think Fawkes is going to continue to be meaningful in the final chapter. The wand as a horcrux is interesting, but I would think that would make a wand an incredibly fragile instrument. Horcrux's are supposed to be well protected. In Harry Potter books, expelliarmus curses are thrown around like nerf balls. Plus, Spoiler: Voldemort seemed bound and determined that each horcrux come from one of the houses of Hogwarts. Spoiler: Dumbledore is most definitely dead, in the muggle sense. He showed up in a portrait in his old office. That doesn't mean he can't be consulted, just like the other headmasters and heads of house in their portraits. It just wouldn't make sense for a fake death. There's one book left, and in this last one Dumbledore was encouraging Harry more than ever to figure out how to do dangerous things by himself. Snape will play a part in bringing down Voldemort, but will die at the hands of Bellatrix-either by her informing on him or actually outright killing him. Lucius will die a cowardly death. Draco is still a wild card. Another thing, and if this is a spoiler for anybody then they just aren't keeping up... In book four, when Voldemort summons his followers, all but one shows up. Voldemort says he'll deal with him later. Is that Snape? For not showing up, he seemed to arouse the wrath of Voldemort, Spoiler: but is seemingly his chosen one in book 6. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet Last edited by Poppinjay; 12-21-2005 at 07:15 AM..