Some thoughts on Livin in the Matrix
 

I know this steak isn't real, but...
Is living in the Matrix really any different than living in the real world (or Zion, or whatever)? How does the technology of the Matrix work? Let's assume that the connection to the brain replaces the normal connection to the rest of the body. So the Matrix is supplying all the information the brain receives. Actually, the connection between the brain and the Matrix must go both ways. How else would the program be able to represent the actions of everyone's avatar in the digital world. But is the Matrix controlling the brain? I don't think so. From the first movie, it seems obvious that people in the Matrix still have free will. They eat, shit, go out dancing, do illegal things, etc. They interact with the other avatars. I assume they can also reproduce (the new baby is physically grown and added to the Matrix by the machines). So the Matrix provides the universe (the 'construct'), but the human brains still make all the decisions. It's true that the rules of the universe can be controlled and altered by the Matrix, but the humans living in the Matrix can still make their own decisions on how to react to the rules. So what's the big deal?

I don't want to remember a thing... Nothing... And I want to be rich, someone important... like an actor.

Well, if you're living hedonistically, then I suppose it wouldn't really matter. Actions in the Matrix provide pleasure to the brain just as they would in real life. But I think the fact that you could never do anything that truly mattered might bother some people.
Oh, and I disagree on the reproduction part. How would the baby be conceived? Think about it.

But what you do in the Matrix does matter. It effects the environment and other people the same as in the real world. As for the conception issue, it was already established in the first Matrix movie that the machines are 'growing' humans. Each time a woman gives birth in the digital world, a new baby is inserted into the Matrix in the real world.

Right, but you're not going into this far enough: where are they getting the genetic materials? What's happening when the man cums? Ditto with the woman.

Maybe all the people powering the matrix are clones!

Simple. The machines take the semen from the man, and implant it in the woman. In the Matrix, and the real world the baby grows. Once its ready for delivery, the machines take the baby out and put it in a growing tube. The machines implant the action of childbirth into the woman. etc etc

Maybe. Or maybe they implant modified semen. No way to say. That's not really the point, anyway.

I wonder if they are going to go more into this in the third movie. I guess we are going to find out more about what the Zion world actually is and that might explain some things. However, as things stand the whole humans as batteries not only doesn't make much sense energery efficiency wise it also has its logistical problems like child birth and child rearing.

Well, watch animatrix... the machine researched the human to the core. I believe they can produce human without all the test tube process if they have the ablilty to comprehend the brain and emotion...

i am still wondering about the tasty wheat from the first movie. how did the machines know what it tastes like? if it's really tasty, or even wheaty, or why chicken tastes like everything, or if someone found a spoon (or if there is still no spoon) ir...or...or...

(wil wheaton was unavailable for comment on the subject of tasty wheat)

Back to the baby thing....

Morpheus talked in the first one about 'residual self-image'

If you believe you are pregnant then you will be pregnant.....the machines need a way to assimilate the 'crop' into the matrix right? So, what if they prepare the women by sending the electrical signal to the brain saying she's pregnant; the residual self image takes over making her look pregnant; then when she comes to term they simply 'implant' any old baby anywhere physically, but logically there together in the matrix....

Or why not just insert the babies.....and alter the memories of the parents and everyone else....Just the friends, families, doctors, anyone who would've come in contact with the mother...then they could fake all the physical evidence...(photos, baby albums, hospital visits...etc...)

Any "evidence" i.e. genetic markers; paternity testing and the like could all be manipulated using the matrix programming. If they can 'glitch' the program (brickwalls for windows......) then surely they can doctor a few records....

As for genetic material...what if every baby is exactly the same....what if they only look different in the construct of the matrix thanks to 'residual self image' Kids look like their parents because they think they should look like their parents.

the sad thing is....I've put quite a bit of thought into this......And I'm sure many more hours are to come....

If that were the case, then everyone in Zion would look the same. That's assuming Zion is the true reality.

deja vu means they changed something in the matrix. particularly if it is 2 kitties...

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~dankitti/pics/cleoperk.jpg" width=463 height=213 alt="cleoperk">
cleopatra (l) and perky! cleopatra was my roommate's kitty at the time & perky was my kitty, now no longer with us. um, does this mean they changed something in the matrix? i have these wooden spoons that do not bend. the spoon does NOT BEND!

A flaw in my theory (or the movie). If the Matrix only interfaces with the human brain, then how can Cipher asked to be reinserted with a new life?

Simple, all they have to do is erase all of his memories and insert him as a fetus in a pregnant woman in the Matrix. Note that the woman doesn't have to be really pregnant in "real life" just in the matrix. I would think that every body in the matrix has to be connected to a real brain in the real world. It might be too complicated for the matrix to insert characters into the matrix and have them lead realistic lives.
As to how do they ensure that he'll be someone famous? All they have to do is make him the son of an already famous person. After all, children tend to take after their parents so that if the parents are famous the children will be famous, if the parents are rich the children will be rich.

The real doozy is that Cipher was a man, but what happens if they give Cipher the body of a female? Is that where lesbianism and gayness comes from?

Gee Cartman, not only are you a big fatass, but your mom's a hermafolite!

Back to the original question, here's how it matters.

In the matrix, you are totally at the mercy of the machines. While you are useful, you won't notice any advantage over the 'real' world, but what if the machines need a body for some purpose, some experiment? What if they decide to do maintenance on a section of the power plant and shut it down?

No thanks. Maybe Cypher chooses the Matrix, but I choose the real world.

If they decide to do maintenance on a section that's where natural disasters can come in. Earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, etc. When or if the bodies are ready to be reintegrated into the matrix you simply make a bunch of women pregnant and upload those bodies into the unborn fetuses.

I forgot to add that this might also be where reincarnation comes in or why you might feel a sense of deja vu. Perhaps you really were someone else, but because of technical reasons you had to be temporarily disconected from the matrix. When you get plugged back in perhaps the machines don't do a good enough job of completely erasing your memories and a few fragments remain. If you visit your old neighborhood you might get the feeling that you were there before, well in fact you were! Just as a different person!

But my theory is that the Matrix does not control the human brain in any way. Your memories are all totally real, based on what you think you see and feel, just like in real life.

If they understand the human brain to such a degree why couldn't they just erase the last 8 years (I think that's what he said) of his life and modify it explain why he's so rich and famous now?

Surely they have the ability to modify memories; I mean just the stuff in the first movie (the subway scene; the market scene) would require some real fast talking on the part of the authorities if memories couldn't be modified...

Did that make sense....:(

If the matrix within a matrix idea is correct then Morpheus's comments about residual self image are crap. In fact everything he believes is false. Therefore they could all be clones and be made to think that they all look different. In fact everyone but Neo could be a program!

They can't just erase 8 years of his life to make him famous, they would have to also erase everybody else's mind for the last eight years which would probably be a lot of work. And I doubt that they can greatly if at all alter memories. To change a memory would theoretically be much harder than to delete a memory. I mean if they want to erase someones memories all they would have to do is to kill a few brain cells. If they wanted to change those memories, i supppose they might be able to, to a small extent, but only if it's an insignificant small change.

No, the easist way to go about it is to totally erase his memory and let him start from scratch with rich and famous parents.

Yeah, you're right, like I said in a previous post, the matrix probably can't control your brain or change your memories, but it could potentially delete them. Aren't your memories stored in brain cells? If they take out those brain cells, then wouldn't your memories be gone, allowing you to start from scratch and build new ones? Which is why they can't garuantee he'll be smart, or charming, or witty, but they can guarentee him fame and money by having him be the son of rich and famous parents.

I was just thinking about the whole issue of reproduction in the matrix...the implantation on sperm idea sounds plausible, but I do think that there is no second matrix...
The matrix need Zion to repopulate itself. If The One were to choose the "reboot" the system, then The One would disappear, and demoralize the humans, and they collapse without much of a fight, and they're all placed in the matrix. That's why The One gets to pick a set of humans to start Zion. But since Neo chose the other door, the humans will fight, and the matrix will have to destroy them, and continue at a lower level of survival...
Just another thought on the matrix...maybe it's just the lack of sleep, but it seems to make sense.

Well, instead look at it this way. They studied us well, they know the simple backstabbing plan. "I want to go back to the matrix"
Lets see, right now he is fighting to END ME, or I can promise him nothing and just kill him. I don't think he was in the matrix. MAYBE they learned to to induce perma-amnesia, if so, he woke up one day as a rich druglord or something. IF not, he was killed the second he left the ship. Either way, he was no longer working AGAINST the robots. 'nuff said, right?

Why not? Who is to say what they can and cannot do? They've got the majority of the human race hooked up as batteries. The human race doing their impression of a Duracell is a pretty big stretch of the ol' imagination already isn't it?


We change our memories everyday. The further in the past they are the easier they are to manipulate. We romanticize an old relationship; we pine over the girl who got away rather then the girl who ran screaming; we remember the Charleton Heston playing Moses, Ben-Hur, and Brutus, but forget that he played a role in "Cats and Dogs." People only really remember what they want to remember. Millions of people wouldn't need the personal validation that Cypher is a big time movie star only told that Cypher is a big time movie star.

Maybe. How long do bodies survive being batteries? 60, 70 years? If he was inserted as a babe, then his real body would still be in its 40's right? So, they'd have to kill off the "Matrix Cypher" early wouldn't they?:(

Right you are, but with your theory they would have to alter the minds of millions of people, even if only to introduce the suggestion that Cipher did some movies in the past. And what happens when one of those millions of peoples is reminiscing about one of Cipher's old movies, and wants to rent it. How's he gonna do that if it never existed in the first place. I still think that if they do it the way you suggest it might be possible, but probably wouldn't be worth it because of all the work and *energy* that would go into the process. Again the simplest solution is to remake him as a baby.

That's an interesting theory, but the 1st movie already established the fact that the machines are growing humans.

Maybe they were just telling cipher what he wanted to hear in order to get him to do what they wanted. I mean when morpheus is telling neo in the first film that once he takes the pill he can never go back, and then when cipher is talking to trinity on the phone she says it is impossible to go back. Then he gets killed so asking if he would have been able to do it is unproductive at best.

The first movie didn't establish they were growing humans if they are still in the matrix!

Then the first movie didn't establish anything.

...and I quote....

"Combined with a form of fusion, the machines had found all the power they would ever need."

Fusion? Nuclear fusion? Why use humans at all? In fact, if I were a machine I would have headed for outer space long ago, and let the humans have Earth.

*chuckle*... when you find out... let me know... it's been "eating away" at me for some time (no pun intended of course) :D

Well, we know why everything tastes like chicken. Colonel Sanders was the Architect.


It's true- go look at a picture.

If you're of the belief that Zion is still inside the Matrix then it didn't establish anything.

If "the real world" is just an extension of the original construct of the Matrix then everything in the first movie was bollucks.

Morpheus says something to the effect 'that he didn't believe it at first then he saw the fields with his own eyes."

That's why I don't buy the realworld/Matrix theory that seems to be propagating at faster than light speeds on the Internet.

If it's revealed to be true, it's going to be hard for the Wachos#@%!#ky brothers to explain it away, in my opinion.

I was arguing this with a friend and he came up with a good point. Cypher only asks to be famous. Why does his celebrity have to be established? Why can't they just put Cypher in a position to become famous and then fix the odds? A year ago, that Reuben guy from American Idol was a nobody, today, he's all over the damn place. Why couldn't the same be done for Cypher? Then his celebrity would be "established."

It's a possibilty that they could do something like that, but you still have to remember that Cipher said he didn't want to remember anything. I guess they could do this by erasing his memory from the point after he was freed from the matrix.

Don't ask me. I took the pink pill.

I'm curious to see what it is that the human batteries are powering. All the machinery we ever see is designed to collect energy from the people, but what is the energy being used to power? Is it one giant mainframe, or is it a lot of little individual computers? What is the puspose of the computers? what do they do all day? Do they replicate? Is it a controlled population? Is there a leader computer or is a collectivist society?