The Hobbit film dead? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Kush · 12-10-2003, 08:10 AM

This from IGN regarding the prequel sequel...

"The difficulty everybody has is the Tolkien estate," Jackson said, referring to recent wrangling between New Line and Christopher Tolkien, the custodian and literary executor of his late father's estate. Jackson's next project is King Kong, which should be finished by 2006. Afterwards, Jackson would like to work with New Line on The Hobbit, provided the legal hassles get worked out.

Right now, a deal doesn't seem likely. The trilogy itself was only possible because J.R.R. Tolkien himself sold those film rights in 1969 for £10,000, a paltry amount by modern standards. His son, Christopher, doesn't believe that The Hobbit or any of his father's other works can be adequately represented on-screen, and has resisted any endorsement of the current Lord of the Rings project.

-----

The Hobbit boardgame.

The Hobbit radio drama (UK plus USA)

The Hobbit computer/console game.

The Hobbit action figures.

So. Why stop at the movie version of your father's work, Mr Tolkien? I thought that Peter Jackson did a brilliant job of the first 2 books...

Any opinions on this, or more importantly, Christopher Tolkein?

Lasereth · 12-10-2003, 08:13 AM

I don't think a Hobbit movie would feel right after the epic LOTR trilogy. I'm also very happy with how the movies turned out. I don't think it could have been done differently with the same results. Let's just sit back and think about how BAD these movies could have been!

I can see where Tolkien is coming from, but damn, think about how the world perceives LOTR now. I'm not sure the past Tolkien would enjoy the movies, but I'm sure he would be happy to know how popular and well received his series is now.

-Lasereth

IckUber · 12-10-2003, 09:34 AM

I think the hobbit would be a great movie, its shorter and you could totaly fit the whole book into a 3 hour movie, without leaving to much out. I wouldnt want to see anyone but peter jackson do it, and no other actor than Ian for Gandalf. The actors that played Bilibo and Gollum would also be perfect (flashback in the first movie, bilbo was shown finding the ring, same actor that played bilbo 50 years later(he hasnt aged a day))

m2k · 12-10-2003, 10:00 AM

I'd love to see The Hobbit movie made but so long as Christopher Tolkien is running the show you can forget it.

Check out this article to see how much contempt for the movies he must have. He pretty much disowned one of his kids for attending the FOTR Premiere.

bartgroks · 12-10-2003, 10:17 AM

The stuff should already be in the public domain. Its silly that Christopher Tolkein has any say in the matter.

Redlemon · 12-10-2003, 10:37 AM

I can't see how he thinks Hobbit would cause any more damage compared to LOTR. But, whatever. He owns it, its his ball.

Prophecy · 12-10-2003, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bartgroks
The stuff should already be in the public domain. Its silly that Christopher Tolkein has any say in the matter.

How is it silly that he owns the rights to his father's estate? He's just trying to protect the estate by doing what he believes is right.

guthmund · 12-10-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prophecy
He's just trying to protect the estate by doing what he believes is right.

No matter how stupid we all think he is. While I respect the man's integrity for trying to protect his father's legacy. I just think that the current crop and certainly future generations of fan would only benefit from Jackson doing The Hobbit.

Then I read this:

Quote:

“I never saw the films as a threat and I’ve enjoyed the movies for what they are, but I crossed my father on a Tolkien issue and if you’re after someone who can explain the estate’s attitude, I can’t. I’m cut off,” said 44-year-old Simon, who is legally barred from discussing the family’s inner workings. “I haven’t spoken to my father except in an annual business meeting context for the past four years. He communicates with me now through his lawyer ... he will never speak to me again as long as he lives, he will never see my children and will never have anything to do with me.”

And I think....Gawddamn, what an ass. He is 77 years old. Maybe by the time they get around to wanting to film The Hobbit he'll have passed on and left the decision to someone with sense.

Cycler · 12-10-2003, 05:57 PM

Damn the guy is harsh. I think Jackson did a good job on the movies but C. Tolkien seems to be riding his father's works for all they are worth. Is it protection of the works or a desire of absolute control? I mean how can you cut your children and grandchildren out of your life for works of art?

BuddyHawks · 12-10-2003, 09:50 PM

I'm with Lasereth, there's no way the Hobbit could live up to LOTR.

Mr.Deflok · 12-10-2003, 10:40 PM

Christopher Tolkien is a hypocritical cocksucker, ok, he didn't want the LOTR trilogy turned into films to protect his fathers legacy yet he flogged off all of his fathers notes to Harper Collins so that they could release dozens of novels full of Middle-Earth-ian knowledge. I loved The Silmarillion but it was clearly apparent that it was not a story Tolkien wished to be told on it's own, it was unfinished for godsakes. Chris Tolkien is a damn loser.

Fremen · 12-10-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
Christopher Tolkien is a hypocritical cocksucker, ok, he didn't want the LOTR trilogy turned into films to protect his fathers legacy yet he flogged off all of his fathers notes to Harper Collins so that they could release dozens of novels full of Middle-Earth-ian knowledge. I loved The Silmarillion but it was clearly apparent that it was not a story Tolkien wished to be told on it's own, it was unfinished for godsakes. Chris Tolkien is a damn loser.

*stands-up and applauds*
Right on, brother!

The guy's in his 70's and he treats his son this way? Dick, I say!

I wonder if he turns to stone in sunlight?

tedrlord · 12-11-2003, 12:44 AM

It would be neat to see the Hobbit made into a movie, but I really agree that it wouldn't work after the trilogy. Each movie is more epic than the last. Releasing a little tale like the Hobbit after that would probably be a let-down for most of the regular audience.

Mr.Deflok · 12-11-2003, 11:01 AM

If they don't make a Hobbit film, which I'm sure they will at some stage, I want them to make a Fantasy film like those in the 80's, get Brian Froud on conceptuals and the Henson workshop on the creatures, Labyrinth and Dark Crystal for life!

Fire · 12-11-2003, 07:43 PM

hey- he's 77- with luck he could drop at any moment

Mr.Deflok · 12-11-2003, 09:51 PM

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*edited by Mr.Deflok for blatant insensitivity

Mephisto2 · 12-11-2003, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok and Fire
hey- he's 77- with luck he could drop at any moment

I don't mean to sound cruel, callous and cynical but I agree.

But both of you were.

That's not a nice thing to say about anyone.

Personally, I'd love to see The Hobbit turned into a movie by Jackson. Oh well...

Mr Mephisto

Mr.Deflok · 12-12-2003, 02:33 AM

Sorry dude, in retrospect I agree with you instead.

Arc101 · 12-13-2003, 12:02 PM

Yep the Hobbit is just begging to be made into a film. I would just love to see what Jackson could do with Smaug. I'm sure it would be something brilliant.

-Ever- · 12-14-2003, 01:00 PM

I never knew Christopher was an idiot like that. Now that I´m done reading the trilogy, I wanted to look into other LOTR-related works. I thought it was weird when I first heard his sone had continued doing his father´s works. I don´t care how close he was with his dad, if he wasn´t an original creator, even as a partner, there should be no reason he should mess with his dad´s ideas.

Sion · 12-14-2003, 05:38 PM

so, if that is C. Tolkien's stance, then how did those gawdawful animated versions of both the Hobbit and LOTR get made?

he's an ass, in my book. If he cannot see what a tremendously fantastic job Jackson has done with these films, then he is blind as well as stupid.

losthellhound · 12-15-2003, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
I loved The Silmarillion but it was clearly apparent that it was not a story Tolkien wished to be told on it's own, it was unfinished for godsakes. Chris Tolkien is a damn loser.

It wasnt even unfinished.. It was his notes, his bible. Writers keep them for the sake of continuity, they're NOT supposed to be published!!

But I dont think Hobbit would be as good as LOTR.. Its not as epic

gilada · 01-13-2004, 03:25 PM

It'll get made... may be a while to do it (look at the hell Spider-Man went through). New Line'll fork over the cash for the distrubition rights eventually, and all will be well.

Semi-Normal · 01-13-2004, 08:51 PM

Hmm, I guess it would be a little anticlimatic after the LotR trilogy, but bear in mind that if Jackson ever does The Hobbit, it'll be a few years before it's out, which I think would lessen the anticlimatic feel considerably. And though it's been a while since I read it, I do remember there was the Battle of Five Armies, and of course Smaug the dragon would look incredible.

It would also be cool to see more dwarves. Gimli was cool in LotR, but he was IMO really quite a generic kinda dwarf; I'd like to see some dwarves with more personality and The Hobbit would be perfect for that. The troll scene would be great too, especially with the reference to it in FotR.

Cycler · 01-14-2004, 07:07 AM

I think the Hobbit could be equally epic as the rest of the movies made. I mean you have a dragon, damn that is worth some epic appeal in principle. It could work. I agree with Semi-Nromal more characters.

moonstrucksoul · 01-15-2004, 05:10 PM

i agree that a Hobbit film wouldn't seem right right now, but if they were to do one then they would have to do it soon, cuz Ian Helm and Ian Mckellen are getting old.

bonehed1 · 01-15-2004, 05:19 PM

I would like to see the Hobbit on film but I dont think it would seem right though. In my opinion it would in a sense take away from the trilogy.

KWSN · 01-15-2004, 06:28 PM

From what i heard the OK was given recently from the Tolkien estate and it WILL be made.

Good, if the rest of the films were any implication it'll be outstanding.

moonstrucksoul · 01-16-2004, 11:48 AM

i don't suppose that you can blame C. Tolkien for being tight on the reigns of the estate, because if he wasn't then there would be a flood of merchandise, i.e. calenders, picture books, and such that wouldn't benefit the legacy at all.

i am thankful that i can get more information from the Silmaarillion and Unfinished Tales, because the LotR has so many references to things that you might not have been able to find out more about, if those hadn't been published.

and i am sure Christopher is bitter because the film rights were sold. (for dirt cheap) and he doesn't stand to make money off them. but he has made an assload of cash off all the book sales.
I myself bought a new copy of all three bound as one to replace my 20 yr old copies, - so heres twenty bucks for you Christopher.

bonehed1 · 01-16-2004, 12:21 PM

Just bring out the movie and see how it does.

Lebell · 01-16-2004, 01:23 PM

Umm,

Last article I read was that New Line already owns the rights to the Hobbit and that the only wrangling is that UA (I think it was UA) owns the distribution rights.

They were trying to work out a deal.

I'm pretty sure this will happen.

ChrisJericho · 01-16-2004, 03:48 PM

The Hobbitt would be an interesting film, but would lack the depth of the LOTR series, after all the Hobbitt is more of a chidlren's book in my opinion.

Also, I do think that while the LOTR trilogy was excellently made, it does sort of cheapen what the public thinks of the book. I remember back in high school when we were required to read the series (this was approximately 6 years ago before the movies came out) I was awestruck and could not stop reading it. This was because I had no pre-conceived notion of what the book was about or what it "should" be like. Unfortunately I think that whoever sees the movie from this point on, THEN reads the book, will not get the same experience that the pre-movie reader had.

Tophat665 · 01-16-2004, 09:13 PM

Christopher Tolkien is a flatulating butthead who represents everything that is wrong with extending copyright. He's an awful writer who should be more distraught about the violence he did to the Silmarillion (damn thing is almost unreadable so parchingly arid he made it), than about a real storyteller getting interested enough to try and make the books resonate with a larger slice of this generation and generations to come. Particulary when said storyteller has proven himself beyond all expectation.

In that he is like Brian Herbert, I suppose, a son doing awful things to his father's work, Chris by keeping it from growing, Brian by adding to it.

12-10-2003, 08:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kush Insane Location: Ecosse.	The Hobbit film dead? This from IGN regarding the prequel sequel... "The difficulty everybody has is the Tolkien estate," Jackson said, referring to recent wrangling between New Line and Christopher Tolkien, the custodian and literary executor of his late father's estate. Jackson's next project is King Kong, which should be finished by 2006. Afterwards, Jackson would like to work with New Line on The Hobbit, provided the legal hassles get worked out. Right now, a deal doesn't seem likely. The trilogy itself was only possible because J.R.R. Tolkien himself sold those film rights in 1969 for £10,000, a paltry amount by modern standards. His son, Christopher, doesn't believe that The Hobbit or any of his father's other works can be adequately represented on-screen, and has resisted any endorsement of the current Lord of the Rings project. ----- The Hobbit boardgame. The Hobbit radio drama (UK plus USA) The Hobbit computer/console game. The Hobbit action figures. So. Why stop at the movie version of your father's work, Mr Tolkien? I thought that Peter Jackson did a brilliant job of the first 2 books... Any opinions on this, or more importantly, Christopher Tolkein? __________________ I like this forum. A lot.

12-10-2003, 08:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I don't think a Hobbit movie would feel right after the epic LOTR trilogy. I'm also very happy with how the movies turned out. I don't think it could have been done differently with the same results. Let's just sit back and think about how BAD these movies could have been! I can see where Tolkien is coming from, but damn, think about how the world perceives LOTR now. I'm not sure the past Tolkien would enjoy the movies, but I'm sure he would be happy to know how popular and well received his series is now. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

12-10-2003, 09:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
IckUber Funran Location: Norman, OK	I think the hobbit would be a great movie, its shorter and you could totaly fit the whole book into a 3 hour movie, without leaving to much out. I wouldnt want to see anyone but peter jackson do it, and no other actor than Ian for Gandalf. The actors that played Bilibo and Gollum would also be perfect (flashback in the first movie, bilbo was shown finding the ring, same actor that played bilbo 50 years later(he hasnt aged a day)) __________________ How much is y'all Piolkles?

12-10-2003, 10:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
bartgroks Crazy Location: Dallas, Tx.	The stuff should already be in the public domain. Its silly that Christopher Tolkein has any say in the matter. __________________ I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by Google

12-10-2003, 10:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I can't see how he thinks Hobbit would cause any more damage compared to LOTR. But, whatever. He owns it, its his ball. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

12-10-2003, 10:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
m2k Insane Location: In There	I'd love to see The Hobbit movie made but so long as Christopher Tolkien is running the show you can forget it. Check out this article to see how much contempt for the movies he must have. He pretty much disowned one of his kids for attending the FOTR Premiere.

12-10-2003, 05:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	Damn the guy is harsh. I think Jackson did a good job on the movies but C. Tolkien seems to be riding his father's works for all they are worth. Is it protection of the works or a desire of absolute control? I mean how can you cut your children and grandchildren out of your life for works of art? __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

12-10-2003, 09:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
BuddyHawks Swashbuckling Location: Iowa...sometimes	I'm with Lasereth, there's no way the Hobbit could live up to LOTR. __________________ Watch More TV

12-10-2003, 10:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	Christopher Tolkien is a hypocritical cocksucker, ok, he didn't want the LOTR trilogy turned into films to protect his fathers legacy yet he flogged off all of his fathers notes to Harper Collins so that they could release dozens of novels full of Middle-Earth-ian knowledge. I loved The Silmarillion but it was clearly apparent that it was not a story Tolkien wished to be told on it's own, it was unfinished for godsakes. Chris Tolkien is a damn loser.

12-11-2003, 12:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
tedrlord Crazy Location: Behind you!	It would be neat to see the Hobbit made into a movie, but I really agree that it wouldn't work after the trilogy. Each movie is more epic than the last. Releasing a little tale like the Hobbit after that would probably be a let-down for most of the regular audience.

12-11-2003, 11:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	If they don't make a Hobbit film, which I'm sure they will at some stage, I want them to make a Fantasy film like those in the 80's, get Brian Froud on conceptuals and the Henson workshop on the creatures, Labyrinth and Dark Crystal for life!

12-11-2003, 07:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	hey- he's 77- with luck he could drop at any moment __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-11-2003, 09:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX edited by Mr.Deflok for blatant insensitivity Last edited by Mr.Deflok; 12-12-2003 at 02:37 AM..*

12-12-2003, 02:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	Sorry dude, in retrospect I agree with you instead. Last edited by Mr.Deflok; 12-12-2003 at 02:38 AM..

12-13-2003, 12:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
Arc101 Addict Location: Nottingham, England	Yep the Hobbit is just begging to be made into a film. I would just love to see what Jackson could do with Smaug. I'm sure it would be something brilliant.

12-14-2003, 01:00 PM	#20 (permalink)
-Ever- Junkie Location: San Francisco	I never knew Christopher was an idiot like that. Now that I´m done reading the trilogy, I wanted to look into other LOTR-related works. I thought it was weird when I first heard his sone had continued doing his father´s works. I don´t care how close he was with his dad, if he wasn´t an original creator, even as a partner, there should be no reason he should mess with his dad´s ideas. __________________ Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster... --Acknowledge your weaknesses--

12-14-2003, 05:38 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	so, if that is C. Tolkien's stance, then how did those gawdawful animated versions of both the Hobbit and LOTR get made? he's an ass, in my book. If he cannot see what a tremendously fantastic job Jackson has done with these films, then he is blind as well as stupid. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

01-13-2004, 03:25 PM	#23 (permalink)
gilada Psycho Location: Dallas, Tx	It'll get made... may be a while to do it (look at the hell Spider-Man went through). New Line'll fork over the cash for the distrubition rights eventually, and all will be well. __________________ Hey, this isn't rocket surgery. See my futurephone pics at: http://gilada.textamerica.com See my DVD's at: http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=gilada

01-13-2004, 08:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
Semi-Normal Insane Location: Christchurch, New Zealand	Hmm, I guess it would be a little anticlimatic after the LotR trilogy, but bear in mind that if Jackson ever does The Hobbit, it'll be a few years before it's out, which I think would lessen the anticlimatic feel considerably. And though it's been a while since I read it, I do remember there was the Battle of Five Armies, and of course Smaug the dragon would look incredible. It would also be cool to see more dwarves. Gimli was cool in LotR, but he was IMO really quite a generic kinda dwarf; I'd like to see some dwarves with more personality and The Hobbit would be perfect for that. The troll scene would be great too, especially with the reference to it in FotR. __________________ I'm not lazy, I'm "motivationally challenged."

01-14-2004, 07:07 AM	#25 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	I think the Hobbit could be equally epic as the rest of the movies made. I mean you have a dragon, damn that is worth some epic appeal in principle. It could work. I agree with Semi-Nromal more characters. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

01-15-2004, 05:10 PM	#26 (permalink)
moonstrucksoul hovering in the distance Location: the land of milk and honey	i agree that a Hobbit film wouldn't seem right right now, but if they were to do one then they would have to do it soon, cuz Ian Helm and Ian Mckellen are getting old. __________________ no signature required

01-15-2004, 05:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
bonehed1 Psycho Location: California	I would like to see the Hobbit on film but I dont think it would seem right though. In my opinion it would in a sense take away from the trilogy. __________________ Stuff is Good

01-15-2004, 06:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
KWSN green	From what i heard the OK was given recently from the Tolkien estate and it WILL be made. Good, if the rest of the films were any implication it'll be outstanding. __________________ Your arms are broken!

01-16-2004, 11:48 AM	#29 (permalink)
moonstrucksoul hovering in the distance Location: the land of milk and honey	i don't suppose that you can blame C. Tolkien for being tight on the reigns of the estate, because if he wasn't then there would be a flood of merchandise, i.e. calenders, picture books, and such that wouldn't benefit the legacy at all. i am thankful that i can get more information from the Silmaarillion and Unfinished Tales, because the LotR has so many references to things that you might not have been able to find out more about, if those hadn't been published. and i am sure Christopher is bitter because the film rights were sold. (for dirt cheap) and he doesn't stand to make money off them. but he has made an assload of cash off all the book sales. I myself bought a new copy of all three bound as one to replace my 20 yr old copies, - so heres twenty bucks for you Christopher. __________________ no signature required Last edited by moonstrucksoul; 01-17-2004 at 12:59 PM..

01-16-2004, 12:21 PM	#30 (permalink)
bonehed1 Psycho Location: California	Just bring out the movie and see how it does. __________________ Stuff is Good

01-16-2004, 01:23 PM	#31 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Umm, Last article I read was that New Line already owns the rights to the Hobbit and that the only wrangling is that UA (I think it was UA) owns the distribution rights. They were trying to work out a deal. I'm pretty sure this will happen. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

01-16-2004, 03:48 PM	#32 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	The Hobbitt would be an interesting film, but would lack the depth of the LOTR series, after all the Hobbitt is more of a chidlren's book in my opinion. Also, I do think that while the LOTR trilogy was excellently made, it does sort of cheapen what the public thinks of the book. I remember back in high school when we were required to read the series (this was approximately 6 years ago before the movies came out) I was awestruck and could not stop reading it. This was because I had no pre-conceived notion of what the book was about or what it "should" be like. Unfortunately I think that whoever sees the movie from this point on, THEN reads the book, will not get the same experience that the pre-movie reader had. __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

01-16-2004, 09:13 PM	#33 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Christopher Tolkien is a flatulating butthead who represents everything that is wrong with extending copyright. He's an awful writer who should be more distraught about the violence he did to the Silmarillion (damn thing is almost unreadable so parchingly arid he made it), than about a real storyteller getting interested enough to try and make the books resonate with a larger slice of this generation and generations to come. Particulary when said storyteller has proven himself beyond all expectation. In that he is like Brian Herbert, I suppose, a son doing awful things to his father's work, Chris by keeping it from growing, Brian by adding to it. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.