SecretMethod70

That would all be acceptable.....if they didn't pull all that destiny crap. I don't have a problem with them killing off Starbuck, but to spend so much time on Starbuck being special and having a destiny, only to say that her destiny was essentially to die...that's just stupid.

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DaveOrion

Ditto

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Willravel

Her death could carry with it a deeply significant meaning we're simply not aware of yet.

Ch'i

After listenening to the podcast, and thinking more about the episode, I've come to like it. It really sucks that she died, but its probably one of the hardest hitting dramatic beats they have ever played. It really changed the shape of Battlestar. Her death had this emotional backing and sense of realism that I've never felt from any other show.

It is arguable that her death was stupid and meaningless, but I think it made sense in the end. This episode raised Battlestar to an entirely new level.

Mondak

SecretMethod70 hit it right on the head. This thing is either a trick, which seems insulting or she is dead and accepting her destiny to be. . . dead, which is pointless.

A few months back I figured Anders or Dee or both were going to die. Guess I missed that one.

I thought that Starbuck would go back to see her mom on her deathbed and that cold bitch would say something like, "see, I always knew you were a quitter! Couldn't stay away could you?"

I enjoyed the part when Starbuck said "you're not Leoben" and he says "never said I was" Is there any possibility that this is what is in Baltar/Sixes head?

Oh and willravel, I figure Apollo might go for a threesome with Dee and Anders. Seems like that kind of CAG to me.

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pixelbend

I agree. They have made too much of Starbuck to just take her out of the story line like that. So she's either a skin job or she ejected and will have an adventure story on the face of the gas planet or she'll wake up in her bunk and realize it was all a dream.

She can't be dead! I refuse to believe it.

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Willravel

Anyone thinking about the wormhole type thing? I heard the word being thrown around and thought....wormole to Earth? Just a thought.

fresnelly

I'm crossing my fingers for her resurrection by the Cylons, but my money is on making cameos as Apollo's sassy consience.

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Ch'i

I''m still caught on the part when Kara, while laughing, said "You're not Leoben", to which he responded "I never said I was. I'm here to help prepare you to pass through the next door."

I like the wormhole idea.

onodrim

I like this idea the best of all. It would certainly fit into a "destiny," to be the one to lead them to Earth. It would make sense of the fact that she "knew" about the symbol in the Temple which is part of the puzzle leading to Earth.

I also think it's very likely that we may be seeing the Ship of Lights sometime in the future.

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Kadath

Katee Sackhoff did a radio interview where she stated pretty unequivocally that she was done with the show as far as she knew.

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SecretMethod70

Alright...moving on from my dislike for the previous episode (first one I truly didn't like in fact), I'm ready to give my thoughts on the future.

***SORRY I FORGOT THIS INITIALLY, IF I END UP BEING RIGHT THESE MAY BE SPOILERS ****

The wormhole idea isn't terrible, but I don't think that's where the show is going. First, because for some reason I don't imagine wormholes as a part of BSG, and second, because the idea of a wormhole that sucks her out of her cockpit but leaves the ship to blow up is just silly. (Then again, it's about as silly as the Galactica outrunning a supernova explosion, which I quickly forgave.)

Next up, there's the possibility that Starbuck is a cylon. Not terrible, but certainly not great. Battlestar Wiki is down right now, but I'm pretty sure there are some facts of her character which exclude the possibility of her being a cylon.

Of course, there's also the possibility that she's just plain dead. This is the lamest possibility of them all.

Last, and the one I think (and hope) is most likely, is that RDM and DE are bringing in yet another plot line from the original series. Namely, the Ship of Lights, Seraphs, and Starbuck. From Wikipedia:Obviously, the majority of the details would be changed, but my personal theory is that the "Head" characters (Six, Baltar, Leoben) are not actually those characters at all, but the Seraphs (aka The Lords of Kobol) speaking through those characters. Head Leoben, then, was a Seraph guiding Starbuck "to the space between life and death," where the Seraphs (or whatever they may be called in the new series) reside.

I think it's almost necessary that the Ship of Lights or some similar idea be brought into the series if they're going to explain some of the things that have happened, such as the two groups converging on the same planet, at the same time, as the star is about to go supernova.

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Willravel

Damn it, I thought I was the only one to think of that. I was worried ono was going to spill the beans...but there ya go smeth. You've presented what I consider the greatest possibility from the perspective of someone who has enjoyed both series.

Mondak

Behold the POWER of the TFP. Gosh darn it smeth and will. You guys are too cool for school!

I am in on a few things for sure - you don't spend all the endless hours with Starbuck and her self-destructive nature just to kill her off for the sake of doing so. These guys are too smart for that and we are too invested. I mean chuck the whole show if that is "it". Plus - I can't say the nova was the same as the thing in the temple nor was the storm or whatever it was she perished in. Maybe we will see some more of that symbol.

Either way - this thread has been hopping no thanks to me (no one bites on my rants - I have to figure out why one of these days). You two have been on fire.

Oh yeah - Katie saying she is done with the show as far as she knows means NOTHING. I mean what would YOU tell her to say if you were the writers?

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stevie667

Edited

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SecretMethod70

http://www.cortandfatboy.com/index.php?id=489

This site has a short podcast interview with Katee Sackhoff that is a bit interesting. Apparently she's auditioning for other projects But apparently BSG does have the "option" of calling her back at some point.

On an unrelated note, Katee sounds pretty awesome. Love the road rage (she's doing the interview by phone while driving)

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Kadath

Thanks Secret, that was the interview I was referring to.

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SecretMethod70

***SPOILER (if you haven't seen the March 11 episode)***



This is gonna be good.

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MexicanOnABike

I just went on a BSG overload this week. right after the episode when starbuck's ship explodes, will and ch'i were talking about it in the shoutbox and eventually they convinced me to check it out. So i watched the miniseries, then season1, 2, and I just finished season3 today.(last night's episode).

I must say this is a great show! wow. And it's really boring since Starbuck left the show. (not boring like that but kinda not funny anymore? )

Eitherway, what do you think the music means? only tigh and anders could hear it. they were close to starbuck. I wonder how that has to do with anything? I'm suprised they brought back the president's cancer again. if it's fresh and new, couldn't they just cure it the regular way? Although I'm sure the allucinations will bring something else about earth. plus now she'll be the dying leader again which makes the story make sense again.

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Willravel

I guess we can't call Lee 'Apollo' anymore.

The music seems to be important, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it means.

I think Baltar should plead insanity.

Buk

I still think Baltar has some huge part to play in their finding earth and forcing the cylons to leave them alone for good.

fresnelly

I don't know what the Music is either, but it's a calling card if you're a romantic or a Transmission if you're paranoid.

I suspect it has to do with how the Cylons are tracking the fleet and is tied to the psychic bond between Six and Baltar. It was the one question left unanswered by Six during Ol' Patch-Eye's interrogation, and that's when he first heard the music, no?. It's his storyline to resolve and figuring out the connection can be his redemption.

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Mondak

Tigh = Cylon

That is why the Zena-lon said she was "so sorry she did not know" when she saw the face of one of the remaining 5.

Ok - that would be weak since he grew old with Adama and I am not convinced that they age.

Either way - this trial BS makes it official. . . the show has jumped the Shark. Apollo would not act this way two years after humanity was almost wiped out and what - a couple months after escaping New Caprica and being Captain of the Pegasus. BS.

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SecretMethod70

I dunno about that. For one, Apollo has always been the idealist. That's exactly what he's doing here, and it especially fits in with the added knowledge that he had wanted to follow in his grandfather's footsteps. On top of that, he just suffered a huge loss which can make someone do all sorts of crazy things.

I'm enjoying the trial personally. Of course, I can see why a Baltar hater might not enjoy it so much

As an aside, I just recently discovered this podcast and think it's pretty good. If you're into podcasts and/or listening to people talk about BSG, you might want to check it out

http://www.digg.com/podcasts/Galactica_Watercooler_3

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Willravel

Apollo never forgave his father for what happened to Zach. He never forgave his father for leaving him and Zach with an alcoholic mother. He has been under the command of his father, who he rarely agrees with, for years. This was inevitable. Lee had grown up resenting his father and idolizing his grandfather, the great civil rights lawyer Spoiler: who defended the cylons. All it took was a gentle nudge from everyone's favorite kleptomaniac, Romo Lampkin. It makes perfect sense.

SecretMethod70

It should be noted that the "spoiler" in the above post is in reference to the general premise of the potential spin-off series, Caprica. I point this out because it's a point worth reading and I think it'd be a shame if Mondak or anyone else didn't read it because they thought it was a BSG spoiler.

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Kadath

I'm frustrated that Lee is acting like a teenage boy. Other than that, I am enjoying the season.

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SecretMethod70

So I was thinking about this whole situation with Apollo and, while I don't think his actions are necessarily out of character, I can definitely agree that the writers could have done a better job in working up to this. It's not the fact he's going against his father again that bothers me, nor is it the fact he felt compelled to hand in his wings in favor of his idealism. The problem comes in that it happened so fast, particularly considering who he's defending.

I could believe all of this happening in a matter of 3 episodes were the issue something like the worker's rights issue that Tyrol was dealing with. But this isn't worker's rights, this is Baltar. While I do think the general concept of Apollo believing in Baltar's right to a fair trial is believable (as well as his belief that if he doesn't stand in and help guarantee it, no one will), the storyline would have benefited from a more gradual transformation.

Nonetheless, I'm definitely not ready to say the show has jumped the shark. While I think season 3 has been the weakest, I don't think the show is unrecoverable by any means. (Of course, if they're going in the direction I think they're going, plenty of people might disagree with me.) Most importantly, I think the problems lately have a lot more to do with execution than general plot.

So, yes, these last 3 episodes certainly could have benefited from a little more past development. It's easy to have really high expectations for a show like BSG, but I think it's important to also remember that it is made by people, and that means there will be problems, including occasional out-of-character moments or story lines. I'm absolutely positive that if I wanted to I could watch any of the other shows I enjoy and find the same problems at some point.

And that's how I got myself to be open to enjoying BSG again after the low point of Maelstrom. It was a matter of accepting the episodes for what they are and moving on from them. The execution of Maelstrom still upsets me, but what's done is done - much like Apollo's sudden shift in character, which could have been handled more believably. Once those things are chalked up to human error and accepted, I think the show is on a definite upswing. It's just that the transition was less-than-perfect. Let's hope they learn from these mistakes for season 4.

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runtuff

Well I am not sure if I am really looking forward too the end of the season show. Not because I'll miss watching the show, I'm just not sure what direction they are going. End of the season shows ares upposed to wrap up this year and pose a deep thought provoking ideas to ponder in the off season. The end of the last two seasons did that for me. Things seem so jumbled now, and any groundwork for a finale and next season seems so confusing to me. The characters ALL seem in transition. (sigh) we shall see tonight.

Willravel

Now more than ever I am convinced this is the best show on television, possibly one of the best works of fiction in the past 30 years.

You aren't going to believe it. I have to go piss.

Ripsaw

Oh snap.

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Ch'i

Wow. . .

. . . .






. . . . . . . . . . .




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Willravel

Hahahaha...the Sci Fi board is crashing!!!!

Mondak

Ok. . . I am done yelling at the TV for now.


Dicks



2008? What the hell is that Shatner?



Oh yeah and who is the 5th anyway?



I hate this show. Can't wait for 2008. Jerks

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japhyryder

Yeah Frak, I can't believe it. I have a pretty good guess as to number 5


But what is with 2008, I can't believe the season is over. Not Fair

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Willravel

I say that the Sci Fi channel should stop making crappy made for TV movies and pay for a 30 episode season.

japhyryder

I second that motion, can we have a vote.

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Fremen

I don't know which I liked better, Lee's long speech, or Tigh's short one.
Both were nice writing.

Frak, a whole year!?!

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MahlerIsGod

Worst finale ever. Just a reflection of how far this show has fallen. Lee's speech was nice but it couldnt save an entire season of blah and drivel. The producers and writers certainly took a page from The X-Files book when they learned how to fill up a season with nothing. I doubt highly I continue watching this show come the new season

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MexicanOnABike

if you're reading this thread, expect spoilers:

as soon as the ship apeared on apollo's radar, i knew it was starbuck. I'd like to know what the fuck happened in the last few mins. the whole trial was well done and it was something that had to be done i think to let baltar go.

... more to come. thunderstorm. might loose power. back tomorrow.

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