Zeraph

I don't get it, Chi, is that a pumpkin?

Willravel

Yes, and it was glorious.

Ch'i

Yes, that is a pumpkin Zeraph. A proud, Battlestar affiliated, soon to be moldy pumpkin.

kutulu

Wow that was great work!

Ch'i

Thanks kutulu

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Last weeks episode was fantastic. I'm enjoying finally seeing more of the cyclons and their environment. The part when Spoiler: Admiral Adama walked into the rec room and, while sterny looking at Col. Tigh, asked Starbuck for her sidearm was great. Somewhat puzzling though; why would Olmos need a gun? He has to but to will something to happen and it would be so.

Spoiler: Earth set traps!

The hybrid was interesting. But not as interesting as Six telling Gius that they never talk about the other five cylons.

Mondak

That was totally weak. I don't think Adama would drop it. I am not saying he would definitly punish him, but I can't see him allowing someone else to run the fleet. I mean you figure a couple pilots died out there. That happens for no reason then just so Helo can make the final call on anything he doesn't agree with? I can't see a Battlestar being run that way.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

rofgilead

Yeah.. I don't like the feeling sometimes when a show just wraps up with a nice conclusion. It feels really fake then, compared to how most BG plotlines develop. However, I could see the show getting boring or too soap opera-like if no plot ever resolved completely.

The Baltar scenes were more interesting.

Ch'i

The reason Adama dropped it is because he agreed with Helo.

SecretMethod70

They typically let you know when pilots die, so considering no pilots died, I don't see Adama dropping it as anything too crazy. After all, he agreed with Helo, for the most part. Also, knowing the kind of punishment that would be required for something like that (it would likely be punishable by death), he probably didn't feel it was appropriate.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Willravel

Adama and Helo wern't on the surcafe of New Caprica, so they don't have the same rage that the rebels still feel. That's why well continue to see a marked difference between Adama and Roselyn for some time. Adama and Helo have perspective on the situation, and I would have done the same thing. An eye for an eye is a dangerous game, and in the end you'll both end up blind.

Mondak

Forget the specific subject on this. Command cannot function properly when things like this occur. It lets others know that you are okay with them acting in a similar manner every time they disagree with orders. It is not like the president ordered Adama to do it. She approved the use of biological weapons. I mean - you at least have a personal conversation with Helo on this and don't drop it cold.

I thought it would have been interesting to have the Cylons get infected and Baltar save them. I mean it seemed like the doc thought it was a pretty simple disease to fix. Baltar should have been able to muddle through it.

Another thing I was thinking about is what kind of bounty they got from the dead Basestar and all the dead Raiders. I mean I would think that if they got Slash to fly (and execute hyperspace jumps etc.), they might have been able to get the Basestar to do the same. I would think they could hang out there for as much time as they would like since the Cylons are afraid they will catch it anyway. I mean Basestars have nukes and lots of guns. Even if they could not commandeer the ship (which would have been a cool and doable thing I think) I would suspect that they would be able to get some good stuff.

Remember that mining episode? The ships likely run off the same fuel. Plus the skin jobs have to eat right? Finally there has to be hella good recon to be had. I mean a keen understanding of how a Basestar is set up should make you better at killing them no? Even if they only got a couple of those locater / transponder things it would have been handy. So many interesting threads totally wasted.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Ch'i

Sounded like an order.
Uh, the humans had no idea the Cylons set the Basestar to self-destruct.

Mondak

One Marvel No-prize awarded to Ch'i.

As for the order - that is after she asked if he was passing the buck. If he didn't want to do it or had reservations about it, he certainly could have voiced them.

As I said above though, forget the subject matter for a moment and consider what Helo did and its implications on a command structure in the future.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

SecretMethod70

It's been pretty consistently shown on BSG that, due to the circumstances, the "command structure" is anything but structured. This is just yet another example of that. When the entire race is hanging on by a thread, running for their lives, the idea of having hard and fast rules is pretty much thrown out the window.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Willravel

Helo did the wrong thing for the right reasons, and he's not the first. Remember when Commander Adama arrested President Rosalyn? Remember when Lee supported Rosalyn over Commander Adama, and helped her escape custody? Remember when Starbuck went AWOL with the captured raider to get the Arrow of Apollo? Helo is only the most recent in a long and distinguished line of disobedient idealists.

The precedent is already set for disobedience.

Ch'i

It happens.

Willravel

The Cylons destroyed their own ship so that the humans wouldn't ran sack the thing for tech and intel. At 10 minutes, 23 seconds into the episode, the base star exploded and Gaeta said, "Massive energy discharge from the base ship! [To Adama] It exploded, sir." The Helo said, "The base ship exploded, it must have self destructed".

Mondak

Man you are efficient. Glad I have you guys around to straighten me out. I must have missed that somehow. Nice work.

I wonder if the beacon had any other information about Earth on it?

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

That was my first though, as well. It obviously wasn't just a piece of tin sitting in space. They could have learned a lot about 3000+ year old technology that would have given them insight into the 13th tribe. I've been on a speculation fit since learning about Earth (in the Battlestar series, I'm familiar with our Earth). I still have basically nothing to go on, so I'm all over the board.

fresnelly

I'm getting hooked now that the show is focusing more on its mythology than the political/military drama. I'm totally digging the scenes with Baltar on the Cylon's control ship.

The scene where Baltar's body is being tortured by Lucy Lawless while his mind is getting pleasured by #6 struck me as a real turning point for him. I found Lucy's (what number is she again?) reaction to his blurted out affections very intriguing. What do you suppose the significance is there? Was she amazed that he could withstand the pain or struck by his seeming dementia?

Speaking of "speculation fits":
I don't know how much we've heard about the unaccounted Cylon models before, but #6's admonition that We don't talk about them" made be speculate that either they're faulty and gone insane, or have struck out on their own as a whole other Cylon tribe with a different belief system. There's plenty of religious/cultural metaphor writing to be tapped into here. Have I missed a previous clue?

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Willravel

What if they're at war with the other 5 because of massive ideological differences? That'd be quite a thing.

Mondak

Lots of speculation on the last 5 or whatever. I think it is ambiguous enough to do lots of different things. I suspect if we could categorize what attributes each of the models we know possess, we may be able to start to divine what (human) attributes are unaccounted for. I mean if they were designed around the 7 deadly sins, we could start to get into 1=sloth 2=gluttony etc. We don't know the list / attributes that Moore used, but maybe the holes would point us in the right direction. I have no idea though.

For fun - I found this on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxX0DKE3oqw&eurl=

I liked it since some guy did it in his spare time which I think is neat. my favorite part is Spoiler: when the Viper turns around in the trench and blasts the pursuing Tie Fighter.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Ch'i

Well, Battlestar inadvertently showed us all, yet again, why its the best show on television. Great episode tonight! Tied up alot of things in a very entertaining way.

japhyryder

Yeah I was quite the episode. The fight with Adama and his speech was the best. Didn't really like the Apollo/Starbuck thing.

__________________
It's only entertainment, someone's sick idea of a joke.

ubertuber

I just realized that the actor who plays Hotdog is Bodie Olmos - Edward James Olmos' son... Was this common knowledge and I wasn't paying attention?

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Willravel

Yeah, it was common knowledge, at least in my household.

Mondak

I didn't know about it.

Starbuck is one crazy effed up bitch. WTF is with her? Did she marry Anders out of guilt or was she doing it to punish herself since she felt unworthy?

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

Listen to the podcast. Moore, along with Helo and Boomer, explain it. The thing is: Starbuck is always running. She's been afraid of letting people in since we've known her. Of all the people on the show Lee is the closest to her, and when he seduced her she freaked out. With Anders, she could have a shallow love and lust without the complications of a deeper relationship (though we all know that was doomed). Deep down she knows that she'd in love with Apollo. I think she's known since she shagged Baltar (called out Lee's name, LOL). The thing is, Starbuck is flawed. She's just like the rest of the cast.

kutulu

She did Baltar? Damn, I totally forgot.

mrklixx

I hate when the previews contain big spoilers. Such as Spoiler: Starbuck obviously survives and is rescued/assisted by Dee, and the oviously don't nuke the planet with all their peeps still on the surface (like that was ever gonna happen). There should really put a "this preview may contain spoilers" warning on them.

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I hate animated avatars.

japhyryder

I wish shows would just stay on the same night and time, Sunday YUCK!

__________________
It's only entertainment, someone's sick idea of a joke.

Kadath

mrklixx: like they're going to kill a main character. I enjoy the show, but they're not nearly that daring.

__________________
it's quiet in here

Willravel

I think it's safe to assume that all previews for the next episode contain spoilers.
You forgot about Kat already?

There are only a few characters that probably won't die (perminantly): Admiral Adama, President Roselyn, Apollo, Starbuck, Baltar, and the cylons. Everyone else is fair game including: Helo (though that would espically piss me off), Athena Sharon (she could be boxed), Dee, Anders, Tigh, Tyrol and his wife, Gaeta, and Tom "where the heck did he dissapear to?" Zerek.

Neeways, how amazing was that episode? It had me on my seat the whole time. We got to hear "Prelude to War" by Bear McCrary as Adama was preparing to nuke the planet and it really drove the urgency and danger home. The looks on everyone's faces changed it from a bluff situation into a real possibility. He's just crazy enough to do it.

I'm still wrapping my head around Starbuck and Apollo. They really are the Ross and Rachel of the 12 Colonies. Will they? Won't they? So now Starbuck is suggesting that she can't get a divorce because marriage is a sacred promise, even though she fracks around with all sorts of sailors and such. Are we to assume that their marriage vows don't include singlular devotion? Also, I'm really dissapointed in Apollo. His character has been back and fourth, but it seemed as if he always was trying to do the right thing. He fought his father and Tigh when they were wrong. He fought Zarek. He fought the various Pagesus captians. He might as well have a big yellow S on his chest. While he obviosuly has intamacy issues (Lee loves the hookerfolk), I didn't see him cheating on his wife with a married woman, even if he is in love with her. Another thing that's funny to me, Jamie and Katee have great chemestry, but their love scenes are kinda awkward. Is that intentional?
As to the main storyline: I'm beginning to be confused about the connection between the final 5 and the Eye of Jupiter. De'Anna is continually committing suicide because she feels she is becomign closer to the truth about the final 5 and also the true nature (and face of) the cylon God. The final 5 are presumably only 40 years old at the most. We've found a temple that was prophisized in the sacred books of Kobol, it has 5 pillars. When the hybrid cylon grabbed Baltar, she said "Intelligence, a mind that burns like a fire," presumably referring to Baltar, "...find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband, in the eye of the cow." Thanks to Baltars reasoning, we figure out that Hera is commonly called cow eyed Hera, and the husband of Hera is Zeus or Jupiter. To this, De'anna suggests a connection between the cylon god and the theology of the 12 Colonies. Baltar figures that the Eye of Jupiter is hidden in a cluster of starts (shawdow of light). The hand? Baltar thinks that the hand is some sort of artifact...but then makes the connection between the five fingers and 5 faces...did he really mean the final 5? I mean there were 5 priests at the temple at one time, according to the scriptures, but could Baltar mean that: 1) the final 5 have accepted the Colonial theology to be their faith and have taken the place of the 5 preists? 2) The final 5 are hiding on the planet? 3) The final 5 have some connection to the history of the temple and thus the voyage of the 13th tribe?

And what about the massive coincedence that they all arrived at once, just before the star was going to go nova (as Gaeta and Baltar pointed out)? Could this show finally move from coincedence to an actual higher power playing a role? I mean the other stuff was history, though the stuff about Laura being sick and leading the people is really amazing, but this is getting silly. Also, I wonder what roll the cylon eventually play in the mythology of the 13 tribes reuniting? I need to get that book!

Neeways, enough ranting for now. I await January with eager anticipation.

kutulu

I thought it was a great episode and I can't wait till the end of January.

On a side note, is it really necessary to include spoiler tags during discussion of episodes that already aired? Shouldn't those who didn't see the ep know that the discussion of the ep will include spoilers?

Kadath

willravel: Yeah, I forgot about her. I never really thought of her as a main character. I feel the same way about her as I do about Hot Dog or any of the other minor but recurring characters. Kat was only in 18 episodes of the 44, but I guess she was kind of a main character.

I also think the whole "is this a coincidence?" thing was their nod to the fact that the "same place, same time" thing's totally unrealistic and they needed to bring deus ex machina to explain why it happened. It's not that I'm not enjoying it, but the show has some weak points.

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it's quiet in here

Ch'i

This is what I think is going to happen: Spoiler: Chief was reading the off the wall of the temple when he said something like "the heavens will open and reveal the Eye of Jupiter. I think Adama is actually going to fire the nukes, but the nukes will be intercepted by something and reveal whatever the Eye of Jupiter is (I think its the entire planet). Ronald Moore is hardly predictable, so who knows. I completely agree with you on the whole preview thing. I especially hate the flashes of the episode during the opening credits (which I never watch anymore).


Kudos to Mr. Moore for keeping this series so insanely good.

Willravel

MASSIVE Spoiler: One will die, one will find out he or she is a cylon, and one will find Earth... This second half of a season looks incredible, and I can't wait....HURRY, SCI FI!!!

suncrafter

Me too. I think they did a good job improving the Cyclons! It did not make much sence before when the Cyclons were "Piloting" ships.

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kutulu

No comments yet? I thought it was great and I wouldn't have expected the plot twists that occurred.

Ch'i

What's there to say? Battlestar is the epitome of television.