Ch'i

I'm assuming anyone reading this thread has watched the last episode:

"Okay, now this little bit is something I came up with, you know, in a rewrite. That, okay, Galactica can't just jump into low orbit. Its going to jump into the fucking atmosphere and fall like a rock... I love this, this is just, like, tremendous effects work by Gary Hutzel and his team. And its just going going going going, and then at the last second it jumps out. Now watch all this. This is, like, visual effects a go-go. And we'd better win the fucking emmy for this this year or I'm gonna -- I sware to God."



Michael Hogan is such a fantastic actor.

guthmund

Too true.

I thought it about over the weekend and after listening to the netcast for this episode, I guess the coffin is pretty well nailed shut.

I've been bumping around the battlestar wiki (the url I can't remember, but I'd be happy to dig it up for those interested...) and it mentions that the 12 skin-jobs are archetypes of the human race. I've read their stuff and I've got my own opinions, but I'd be interested to hear the opinions of those here as well.


And yeah, Ch'i--- Michael Hogan is a helluva an actor. An actor I didn't really appreciate until this season.

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Telluride

I'd be very interested in reading that web site and discussing this, if you can find the link.

Yes he is. And Saul Tigh is one of the most interesting characters on the show.

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ASU2003

This is the best show on TV. Too bad I can't just buy the DVDs for three times the price and watch every single show right now.

feelgood

Oh man, oh man, I'm so hooked (Been hooked since Season 1 of course ) I can't wait to see what the Cylons think of Hera, nor can I wait to see what the aftermath of the Occupation for the fleet.

Too bad Pegasus was sacrificed, she was a good ship. I think Galactica would be crippled after taking on 4 BaseStar and is in no shape to protect the fleet when the Cylons pursue them.

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Willravel

You mean IF the Cylons pursue them.

feelgood

Why wouldn't they? Isn't that's what the whole series is about apart from internal fleet troubles and such?

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Willravel

Well remember the end of the last season. Caprica Six and Bommer Eight were able to sway Cylon opinion. The Brother Cavil Cylons, in the brig, admitted that the attacks and subsequent occupation of the 12 Colonies were a mistake, and, more pertanant to your question, they said that hounding the fleet was a mistake. That thought still has to be in their mind, so I think the question is still up in the air. Also, as stated, the Galactica is severly crippled. While they might be able to jump around, I doubt they will be ready for a fight for some time. Also, we don't know if Spoiler: Baltar is actually a Cylon, and able to sway Cylon opinion even more, in tandum with his lover, Caprica Six, and Boomer Eight. It's part of the reason the next episode will be so pivitol. We get to see Baltar on a basestar with the human Cylons in their natural (so to speak) environment.

kutulu

I think this is the article you were referring to, it is a transcript of an interview with Ron Moore.

link

Based on that,

Spoiler: There are 12 models and 7 are known. Five of them are white, one is a black man, and one is an asian woman. If they are truly archetypes of humanity then all races need to be represented. Therefore I think at least one will be a black woman, one asian man, and possibly a male and female hispanic? That leaves one other, possibly a dark haired white woman.

guthmund

I was thinking that he meant it less along the lines of racial or physical attributes and more along the lines of psychological traits and characteristics that we as humans collectively share.

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Sultana

That's the truth! I have to confess I shed a few tears over that scene (which I NEVER do, by the way)...good lord. Talk about your human tragedy. Gut-wretching, and fractastic acting by both of them.

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Mondak

What kind of guy quotes himself? Me. Looks like I was WAY early with this (couple years according to the Colonial Calender / 9 months on ours) since I said it on 1/13/2006

Ok - well looks like I should have taken the over on that one. She lasted like 12-15 episodes or something. Also, the Pegasus was pretty clearly destroyed, but she did good taking out a bunch of crap in the process.

Sultana I got sniffy in that that episode as well. What a great freaking show. I told my wife that I have to give them a 10 Episode free pass from my "can a brotha get a space battle" rantings after all that action. So many good things to say about this I have to tell you.

BTW - Guthmund, now your buddy is in his element. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

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feelgood

Perhaps but at the end of the season too, they attack and occuplied New Caprica. So, how does that help the Cylons claim that they've made a mistake?

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Willravel

Actually they didn't attack New Caprica. They occupied it, then they fought an insurgency. The thing is Cylons aren't able to respect humans as lifeforms because of hatred from the Cylons wars. That's translated in their behavior towards us. But remember, if they wanted to take us out, they could have just nuked the city and been done with it. As for the nuke at the end of season 2, Pegasus Six had been out of contact with the Cylons for a long time, also she was kinda nuts.

feelgood

They may have not blown up the New Caprica settlement camp but they were planning to during Exodus Pt 2.

I guess we'll see what the Cylons will do on this coming up Sat.

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Zeraph

Well compared to the one before, last night's ep. was boring, but a good follow up if a bit predictable.

possible minor spoiler: so does the president's pardon to all include old president Baltar? Or did she say somehting like "to all currently in the fleet"?

SecretMethod70

I actually disagree. The fact there was going to be an episode something like last night's was a bit predictable, but I think it was done very well. For one thing...

Spoiler: I really wasn't sure if they were going to kill Gaeta or not. Not to mention, having gotten to know Jammer through the webisodes, it really sucked seeing him get killed like that. Very suspenseful.

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guthmund

Quoting yourself? Sheesh...

The thing I find interesting about Baltar--and even more so with this last episode--is that you're not really all that sure that he really is a 'bad guy.' It would be so easy just to make him--and the Cylons, for that matter--just another set of stereotypical bad guys, but Moore doesn't and I applaud him for that. It's an absolute testament to the writing (if I can paraphrase Onodrim) and it's what makes this show so very, very good.

It definitely going to be interesting to see where Moore will take Baltar now that he's a stranger in a strange land.

As for last night's episode, I thought it was pretty good, although I would have rather had them explore Jammer's story a bit more rather than blow him out into space at the first opportunity. Another outstanding performance from Hogan (did you see the look on his face once he found out Gaeta wasn't who he thought he was?) and an excellent bit of work from Aaron Douglas, who plays Tyrol.

I find it a bit hypocritical on Starbuck's part to be so quick to condemn. She did what she had to do to survive, even if that meant getting cozy with Leoben. How can she hold others to a standard she can't even hold herself to? I guess it shouldn't surprise me all things considered, but boy, does it make it hard to like her sometimes.

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Willravel

Well she's probably really mad at herself, and possibly even blames herself on some level for her detention and the Stockholm's (not for any logical reason, but that's the way the human mind works). Her guilt is manafesting itself as anger - big surprise - and she's lashing out in every direction. I wonder if her seperation from Anders is going to be perminant.

As to Baltar, I also have to applaud the unmatched writing on BSG. As stated, the question of Baltar being antagonist or protagonist at the end of the day has never been fuzzier. Yes, he is a survivolist by nature, willing to do horrible things in order to go on living, but we did see hima t whit's end when Gaeta was holding a gun to Baltar's head in Ex part 2. Baltar appeared to be ready to die....or was that simply Baltar calling a bluff? The only person who knows for sure is Moore.

Buk

So now that Baltar looks to be staying on with the Cylon fleet will he end up being the hero of the human race afterall? As they both race for earth, will he sabotage the cylon's plans, even blow them up, taking his own life in the process? Is it possible for Baltar to have a change of heart, to decide which race should ultimately survive this conflict?

Mondak

That is exactly what I was going to say. Deep down she is angry with herself and rather than work through it, she lashes out at others. How many people do we run across in our lives who are the same way?

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Willravel

Well put. I love how the characters on the show are so complete that you can actually analize them as if they were real. That is a real testament to the acting and writing. I mean I could get Kara Thrace on a couch and figure her out. Heh.

feelgood

As far as anybody knows, the Cylon isn't aware that Earth exist, or even knows that the fleet is searching for Earth.

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Willravel

Watch the end of the last episode. The Cylons plan to make Earth their new homeworld. It's a race!

Mondak

As much as I would like to help her by diving into what makes her tick and why she blows up otherwise healthy relationships, I think I would do other things to her on the couch. That long hair is totally doing it for me.

Oh yeah - and despite the divorce / breakup / whatever it was. . . I am going to go back to my previous "Anders is not long for this world" statement. That goes with Apollo's wife too but not yet. I mean if he is not dead, what role will Anders play? I mean the roles on the show:

- He Can't Fly (that I know of which applies to a lot of these)
- He doesn't run a com center
- He is not a senior officer (sure he could "join up" but he would be just a grunt right?)
- He is not into politics (although the "name you know" platform works wonders here on Earth and I bet he would win in a landslide due to his involvement on New Caprica + his Pyramids fame)
- He isn't a Cylon
- He doesn't fix stuff (i.e. Chief)

I dunno - what else is there to do for a guy like him? He is a classic "good" guy. I mean when things got ugly in the Jury thing, he left since he could not effect change. He fights for right and seems to have no evil. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
-

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All truth passes through three stages:
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Second, it is violently opposed and
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ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

He could be the first main character to be a marine. He has at least 13 months experience in guerrilla warfare and tactics against the Cylon. Not only that, but who's to say Anders and Starbuck are broken up indefinately? He'd make a hell of a cylon.

feelgood

There was several other characters that was really part of the military, the government or some kind of rogue organization that rebelled that needed quelling. Take a look at Tigh's wife for starters, she didn't do much other than fuck around.

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Mondak

I suppose he could go into rebel organizations as a spy or something, but who would assign him? I mean Adama and the President don't REALLY know him do they? As as I mentioned, I can't see him as some regular grunt and I don't know that they would put him in charge of all the grunts based on no formal military experience. Mind you - I am a "hire talent not experience" guy - but most people are not.

Besides I don't know how much grunt work there is on the spaceship. I suspect people at this point are just happy to back in the fleet so they will keep quiet for a little while. I mean - Rosalyn should have a pass for a while for whatever she wants to do. Can't see a lot of descent with her.

Can't say I really see what they will do with him other than kill him now that we like him. Then again - that is what they EXPECT us to expect them to do. So they will have to do something weird with him.

(BTW - can't see the "Tigh's wife thing" either. Sci-Fi Fans are overwhelmingly males. I know we have a few, but the "Now playing the role of Captain Kirk: Anders" thing is not too likely.)

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Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

kutulu

Maybe but the fleet isn't really in a position to pick and choose right now. There isn't a large pool of candidates. Also, why can't he train to fly? I don't think the new pilots had much experience.

feelgood

Would you train somebody to fly if his previous experience is in gurella warfare?

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kutulu

Why not? They are basically stuck on ships. Do they plan on fighting Cylons on the ground any time soon?

Willravel

They never planned on fighting the cylons on foot, but they did. A lot. Think of the insurgency on Caprica, the survival of the crash on Kobol, the search for Athena's Tomb, or the insurgency and rebelion on New Caprica. Think of the boarding of the Galactica. Think of all the times there was even a threat of being boarded by the Cylon. Think of whern and if they find Earth.

They're gonna need marines again, and Anders has the experience against the Cylon to make him a valuable officer. Even if Anders doesn't become a pilot, he has a valueable place in the show.

Mondak

willravel I think you keyed on something here is his value. But lets not think of it in terms of his value to the fleet / human race. Instead lets think about his value to:

• The Viewers
• The Writers

See to the viewers, you have things like:

• is he attractive enough to garner female viewership
• does he make an interesting foil / love interest to a female charachter
• is his role on the show intriguing
• Does he make you tune in?
• etc.

So what I am saying is that as a pilot without the Starbuck thing or as a Marine his value is limited. He needs a new task that is compelling or foil that makes the show better. He has been this freedom fighter for a while. If you just stash him away in a fairly mundane role, his value to the viewer may be fairly low. If that is the case, an interesting thing may happen to his value to the writer.

For the writer:

• He is a character that is well liked and thus far interesting
• He is a character that the writer and the viewer has made an investment in (getting to know him)
• The writer may want to maximize the collective investment in the character

If the above is true about his value to the viewer being low without a new interesting role or ability to continue as a foil / interest to a main character then the writer on a show like this would look to kill him while his value is still high. It would be done in an interesting way that provides a payback in terms of an exciting, compelling and unexpected story line.

So what I am saying is not that they can't have him as a pilot or a Marine etc. but I can't see my way to an interesting enough way to use him other than to kill him. As I said earlier, I don't think Anders has an obvious flaw like so many of the other characters. Therefore someone so free of sin is that much more compelling to kill off to teach a lesson or change a thought process of a major character.

So unless we can think of what other interesting roles he might play, I would love to hear what lesson you all think Starbuck would learn from Anders dying.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

Ah, but that's just it! Battlestar Galactica is unique in that it doesn't have typical writers or marketing. Proof of that is in things like the "one year later" move, completly balls out and a complete gamble. Most shows, like CSI or Lost, would cash anf burn with a move like that. BSG is more popular than ever. Maybe audiences are tired of being pandered to and predictibility. Yes, it would be easy as hell to kill Anders. Will they? I haven't the faintest idea because this show keeps me on my toes.

Anders could have plenty of flaws: competitiveness, vengence, flip flopping, being a renegade, not answering to anyone, etc. etc. They all might have been hinted at. But, you have to remember, not all main characters are flawed. Dualla really isn't a flawed character. She's a moral compas for both the Adamas. Her relationship with Lee is her beiong perfect, and Lee being fat. Anders could be a good masculine balance to Deedee.

Mondak

Sure she is. She is a martyr. I think she enjoys suffering and taking on others problems / worried.

And just because the writers of BSG don't pander to the lowest common denominator, it doesn't mean that they don't want to get the most out of the investments we have all made together. They are simply more willing to do something risky to get that payoff than the average writer. I remain with the idea that Anders either dies soon or I have not thought of a way in which his character can get re-engaged in the storyline. Maybe they hinted at it with him quitting the jury, but I can't figure it out.

Great show - makes me think . . . lots

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All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

That's an interesting observation. Her introduction as a main character on the show was that she was the on and off girlfriend of Billy, the bumbling, akward President's Aid (obviously a sympathetic character, meant to be very human and act as a representation of the viewer in the show). Then her character grows when she starts giving advice to His Holy Olmos, about going back to Kobol. She starts flirting with Lee, one of the 5 main characters on the show. Her role is now more important and prominant. The Billy gets wasted, John Woo style. Her and Lee hook up, then get married. She get's pissed cause he's fat (and not His Holy Olmos, fot all men are but chaff in the wind next to Olmos).

I see her more as codependant, but not a maryter.
Tell me about it.

Mondak

Yeah - codependent is more accurate. I was prolly being dramatic - that is until she is dead . . .

Oh yeah - the loss of the Pegasus does interesting things to staffing and the whole "run out of Vipers" question I had a while back. Lee had a skeleton staff on the Pegasus and virtually no fighters on board. I assume they are all on the Gallactica now.

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All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

Nothing will be as good as Battlestar Galactica, ever.

Except more Battlestar Galactica.

Ch'i

I was thinking about what would make Halloween good this year. I then had the revelation which you see below.


Took three and a half hours. *Maniacal laughing*

Someone had to do it.

feelgood

That's neat!

It just hit me now, didn't someone once considered doing a series based on battlestar's resistence group on New Caprica awhile ago?

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