The Definative Matrix Revolutions Speculation Thread - Spoilers definately inside - Page 7 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Gortexfogg · 11-08-2003, 12:17 AM

I liked this one, like I liked Reloaded. But still, it's hard to believe all this when they don't explain why the machines don't build solar panels in space or even in the atomosphere. They obviously have the technology, Trinity breaking through the clouds in the ship shows they have it. Though, it seemed like the machines got zapped by lightening or something and fell back. But, if that's their explination for not building solar panels, it's not good enough. The ship was made of electronics, it didn't get zapped. I guess I'll just have to pretend that the machines, for some reason, can't build the solar panels.

seretogis · 11-08-2003, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gortexfogg
The ship was made of electronics, it didn't get zapped.

It did get "zapped".. They crash-landed, remember?

Xiangsu · 11-08-2003, 08:41 AM

I thought the movie was awesome and I'm not even going to try to argue with any of you about that, even though your reasons for hating it, for the most part, and the inconsistencies you brought up dont really have any foundation.

If you haven't seen this movie yet don't listen to anyone, watch the movie.

docbungle · 11-08-2003, 09:23 AM

If the machines use people as an energy source, then how can they let them all go free?

Xiangsu · 11-08-2003, 09:24 AM

On a side note, I think some of you really need to watch the Animatrix renaissance 1&2. It helps you to understand the whole series a little bit more.

Xiangsu · 11-08-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by docbungle
If the machines use people as an energy source, then how can they let them all go free?

Humans are not really their main energy source if you ask me. Humans tried to destroy them so instead of wiping them out completely they decided they would put them to good use.

Nikilidstrom · 11-08-2003, 10:05 AM

no, they are their many energy. It is all explained in the first movie as well as in the second renaissance 1&2. The machines all ran on solar power, humans blacked out the sky, but the machines soon began to use the thermal energy in humans to create energy by fusion. They beat the humans completely, than began growing them to create a vast, renewable source of energy. If you don't want to except this fundamnetal fact in the movie, then the rest of the movie's sci-fi elements kinda fall apart as well. The whole human-machine war, the reason for the Matrix, etc, etc.....

Monre · 11-08-2003, 09:57 PM

The machines have solar reactors.The humans HAVE to be there for another reason

You can't get energy to power your hover crafts and feed the humans out of the humans...come on people.

THE MAC GOD · 11-08-2003, 10:17 PM

OK... what's wrong with the sunrise ending? Beginning of a new day metaphor??? HELLO? ALSO, no one else seemed to NOTICE that the final shot in the Matrix HAD NO GREEN OVERTONES. Hence the IMPORTANCE of a SUNRISE with COLOR. HOPE this HELPS for people who have a tough time with MOVIES.

THE MAC GOD · 11-08-2003, 10:18 PM

MangaMonkey · 11-09-2003, 02:42 AM

Hi,
I am sorry but seeing this movie just proved to me that the Wachowski brothers really had nothing revolutionary to say beyond the first amazing movie. They just ended up convincing me that they truly were a one-hit-wonder and that they just kept on spewing thinly veiled religious and philosophical bullshit to try to mesmerize people like they did with the original. But, then again, if they did anything else, it wouldn't be the Matrix, would it? They really bit themselves in the ass with this one, and it really all comes down to making money. The first movie was so innovative and original that it would be almost impossible to truly improve on it. In a way, they did all they could, but making sequels wasn't a good idea to begin with. The first movie was not made for the money but for the sake of telling an amazing story and making a revolutionary movie. These two movies were made to make money and to try to keep running with a story that should've ended with The Matrix. Too bad, as I didn't think Reloaded was bad, and I thought maybe Revolutions would live up to it's name and be Revolutionary. Oh, and one last thing, I can't believe how the Wachowski brothers copped out and used so many clichés, one-liners and cheesy gimmicks! I thought they were above that. Honestly, Revolutions was perhaps the most clichéd movie ever, using the tough but endearing drill sergeant, the "Last Man Standing" bit, the heroic citizens bit, the "Everyone-Dies-But-The-Main-Characters-Who-Survive-Long-Enough-To-Win-The-Day" bit, the fact that people survive long enough to tell their life story, and the list goes on. And what was with Morpheus in this one, anyways? He's been relegated from a badass dude to Will Smith's wife's bitch.
Thanks,
Manga

docbungle · 11-09-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

ALSO, no one else seemed to NOTICE that the final shot in the Matrix HAD NO GREEN OVERTONES.

This movie is so overloaded with crap, nobody but you sarcastic, condescending fanatics notice crap like this, and then hold it up as some sort of proof that the movie made sense. It DID NOT live up to it's promise, and every unanswered question this "series" left us with is all of a sudden ok, because "we're supposed to guess, we're supposed to use our brains, stupid". This coming from the same fanboys who said "just wait for the 3rd one...it will explain EVERYthing."

Laugh out freaking loud.

BuddyHawks · 11-09-2003, 10:53 AM

I enjoyed all of it and found nothing wrong except one thing: How the hell did the train man out run Seriph, Trinnity, and Morph? He was hobbling along and they were sprinting along at full speed, lol, not that it matters.

Quote:

Originally posted by Spinach_Indeed

The one I'm most intrested is Merv's realtionship to Sephrim, calling him the prodigal son, and Judas.

Seriph is also called "No Wings" - as in falllen angel.

Jack Ruby · 11-09-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by THE MAC GOD
OK... what's wrong with the sunrise ending? Beginning of a new day metaphor??? HELLO? ALSO, no one else seemed to NOTICE that the final shot in the Matrix HAD NO GREEN OVERTONES. Hence the IMPORTANCE of a SUNRISE with COLOR. HOPE this HELPS for people who have a tough time with MOVIES.

STOP YELLING. I noticed the blue sky - happy now ?

Nikilidstrom · 11-09-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monre
The machines have solar reactors.The humans HAVE to be there for another reason

You can't get energy to power your hover crafts and feed the humans out of the humans...come on people.

the humans used the heat energy from the Earth's core to recharge the ships and run their machines. The machines fed the humans they kept in the matrix with liquified dead humans. Theycouldn't use the solar power any longer because of the charred sky.

Mr.Deflok · 11-09-2003, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
Seriph is also called "No Wings" - as in falllen angel.

I think it was Wingless.

And this is a note too ALL of you, settle the fuck down, you may have (not) liked the film but it doesn't mean you have to blast other peoples opinions. Just listen to them for godsakes, you might learn something.

CSflim · 11-09-2003, 01:17 PM

I don't get it

I don't get it. Why did everyone hate revolutions so much? Not trying to say you're not entitled to your opinion, just wondering what you thought was so awful about it.
Pretty much all of the posts here just keep reiterating how much it sucked, without giving any reasons.
The only things that seems to be the problem is that it didn't wrap everything up into a nice tidy package. Is that REALLY so important to you?
Yes revolutions did leave many things open to interpretation/further exploration, but is that really such a terrible sin? Is a movie that doesn't unambigously answer everything automatically worthless?

The other thing which keeps coming up is how many inconsistencies in the plot there are. But (and I know you're going to hate me for saying this, but i must) pretty much all of the claims of plot holes, simply highlight, not a bad film, but a lack of understanding.

Now I will conceed to some of them. Most notably, the complete and utter lack of emergency EMP deffence systems in zion. That one completly baffled me.

I can understand how this might lessen your opinion of the movie to some extent, but it doesn't explain the sheer ANGER that so many of you are expressing.

So, why did you hate revolutions so much?

Again I must reiterate, that I'm not challeneging your opinion, just curious.

Cynthetiq · 11-09-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xiangsu
On a side note, I think some of you really need to watch the Animatrix renaissance 1&2. It helps you to understand the whole series a little bit more.

don't forget the Kid's Story which I believe is the kid who "bothered" NEO starting in Reloaded.

redravin40 · 11-09-2003, 03:43 PM

I enjoyed the movie.
There were some holes but nothing that bothered me deeply.
I am a sucker for the theme of people fighting against incredible odds.
If you have read Arther C. Clarkes Foundation stories where the future is semi-predicted by computers a lot of The Oracles comments make sense.

(I do wonder why they didn't think to build an exo-skeleton reloader for the infantry. Would have made much more sense then the set up they had.)

pocon1 · 11-09-2003, 05:09 PM

For the people who argue about the solar panels and the machines, just remember, it is a movie. The science, if you break it down would tear the story apart. For instance, why didn't Zion have itself surrounded for a hundred miles by layer upon layer of redundant emp's? Why didn't the machines use geothermal, nuclear or othe powers like huge space solar panels that send a constant laser beam down to the earth? Why didn't the machines use nukes all around the city to crush it? Just drill in from each side and set off some nukes a little bit out from the city. Why no poison gas or biological weapons? Why not swarms of tiny robots loaded with poison needles to puncture each person?
Because it is a movie. So people, please not try to read too much into a movie because it is a story. Any movie, if analyzed, will fall apart. For instance, in almost any car chase in a movie, the streets are always wet like it has just been raining. But it never has been raining. So of course the cars are always sliding around.
Oh, one more point. The APU's, those big robot exoskeletons the used, why would the operator of it sit out completely exposed to be sliced to ribbons? Couldn't they have built these people some armor shielding?

Lasereth · 11-09-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CSflim
I don't get it

I don't get it. Why did everyone hate revolutions so much? Not trying to say you're not entitled to your opinion, just wondering what you thought was so awful about it.
Pretty much all of the posts here just keep reiterating how much it sucked, without giving any reasons.
The only things that seems to be the problem is that it didn't wrap everything up into a nice tidy package. Is that REALLY so important to you?
Yes revolutions did leave many things open to interpretation/further exploration, but is that really such a terrible sin? Is a movie that doesn't unambigously answer everything automatically worthless?

The other thing which keeps coming up is how many inconsistencies in the plot there are. But (and I know you're going to hate me for saying this, but i must) pretty much all of the claims of plot holes, simply highlight, not a bad film, but a lack of understanding.

Now I will conceed to some of them. Most notably, the complete and utter lack of emergency EMP deffence systems in zion. That one completly baffled me.

I can understand how this might lessen your opinion of the movie to some extent, but it doesn't explain the sheer ANGER that so many of you are expressing.

So, why did you hate revolutions so much?

Again I must reiterate, that I'm not challeneging your opinion, just curious.

Nailed it on the head. There were very, very few plotholes in Revolutions, and an overwhelming majority of the questions posed in Reloaded ARE answered in Revolutions.

It's down to the fact that the new fad is dissing Revolutions and saying the first one was an absolute milestone.

I honestly don't see how people can say "it sucks" without giving concrete reasons. All of the major plotholes mentioned are false. Smith isn't an Agent anymore. Neo chose the right-hand door in Reloaded, not the left-hand, explaining why the 23-people-to-save-Zion idea is thrown out the window.

Quote:

Originally posted by MangaMonkey
Hi,
I am sorry but seeing this movie just proved to me that the Wachowski brothers really had nothing revolutionary to say beyond the first amazing movie. They just ended up convincing me that they truly were a one-hit-wonder and that they just kept on spewing thinly veiled religious and philosophical bullshit to try to mesmerize people like they did with the original. But, then again, if they did anything else, it wouldn't be the Matrix, would it? They really bit themselves in the ass with this one, and it really all comes down to making money. The first movie was so innovative and original that it would be almost impossible to truly improve on it. In a way, they did all they could, but making sequels wasn't a good idea to begin with. The first movie was not made for the money but for the sake of telling an amazing story and making a revolutionary movie. These two movies were made to make money and to try to keep running with a story that should've ended with The Matrix. Too bad, as I didn't think Reloaded was bad, and I thought maybe Revolutions would live up to it's name and be Revolutionary. Oh, and one last thing, I can't believe how the Wachowski brothers copped out and used so many clichés, one-liners and cheesy gimmicks! I thought they were above that. Honestly, Revolutions was perhaps the most clichéd movie ever, using the tough but endearing drill sergeant, the "Last Man Standing" bit, the heroic citizens bit, the "Everyone-Dies-But-The-Main-Characters-Who-Survive-Long-Enough-To-Win-The-Day" bit, the fact that people survive long enough to tell their life story, and the list goes on. And what was with Morpheus in this one, anyways? He's been relegated from a badass dude to Will Smith's wife's bitch.
Thanks,
Manga

How can you idolize the first one and talk about how cheesy and cliched Revolutions was? Have you seen the first Matrix yet? That movie was the epitome of cliches and one-liners. "Buckle your seat Dorothy, because Kansas...is going bye-bye." Give me a break! "It's our way or the highway." Do I need to go on?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions can be wrong if they're based on plot information that isn't correct. I don't know how many critics I've seen say Revolutions sucks simply because they based it on wrong plot information. In this case, it can be said that many critics hated Revolutions because they didn't understand it.

-Lasereth

T-Prime · 11-09-2003, 07:52 PM

Regarding the lack of an exo-skeleton on the APU's, according to TheMatrix.com they lacked armor because they simply wanted to be able to see the actors inside the APU's. Tactically, a bad move, but film-making-wise a fine decision.

Lasereth, don't forget the countless Alice in Wonderland references in The Matrix (1)... "Tumbling down the rabbit hole" and "Follow the white rabbit" to name a few.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cynthetiq
don't forget the Kid's Story which I believe is the kid who "bothered" NEO starting in Reloaded.

Sorry, but I hate that friggin kid. So annoying. And he looked funny :-P

Xiangsu · 11-09-2003, 08:22 PM

About the energy thing, I just wanted to say don't you think in all the years that this war has been going on that the machines have found a backup source for energy? The humans wouldn't know because its not like they have diplomatic relations with the machines. The main purpose is to keep humans enslaved, the machines have seen what humans are capable of.

sadistikdreams · 11-09-2003, 09:04 PM

I personally loved the movie.

Nikilidstrom · 11-09-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xiangsu
About the energy thing, I just wanted to say don't you think in all the years that this war has been going on that the machines have found a backup source for energy? The humans wouldn't know because its not like they have diplomatic relations with the machines. The main purpose is to keep humans enslaved, the machines have seen what humans are capable of.

If this is the case, then why not just kill all the humans off and not bother with all the matrix BS, where all their problems seem to come from anyway. If the machines had no need for the humans, than killing them off would be far easier than enslaving them and hoping none of them escape. As I said before, and someone on this page reiterated, there are just some plot points you have to accept to move the story along, no reason to sit back and analyze it to death.

MangaMonkey · 11-10-2003, 01:31 AM

Hi,
There is a difference between using a few campy one-liners that were obviously added for some comedic relief and horrible clichés used in a serious manner which were intended to be taken seriously.
Thanks,
Manga

T-Prime · 11-10-2003, 06:03 AM

Like the others, not to challenge your opinion, but do you have an example to support your claim, Manga?

About the whole human power thing... Ya gotta think, the Machines are there with a purpose. Their original purpose was to serve humans, and in a way, they're still serving humans by keeping them alive. The machines have no free will, they are without the ability to make choices (i.e. Smith's purpose is to kill Neo, and he lacks the ability to choose otherwise).

I'm paraphrasing a paragraph I read explaining Reloaded: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

Here's the same guy's review of Revolutions: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm

Lasereth · 11-10-2003, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MangaMonkey
Hi,
There is a difference between using a few campy one-liners that were obviously added for some comedic relief and horrible clichés used in a serious manner which were intended to be taken seriously.
Thanks,
Manga

Explain how the Revolutions cliches and one-liners are worse than the ones in the first one. I want to see what you're talking about!

-Lasereth

BuddyHawks · 11-10-2003, 08:06 AM

The major problem I have with Revolutions is the incorperation of the video game plot with the movie. I'm talking about Niobe going to see the Oracle. OK, I wish I could see that. What?, I have to play a crappy video game ( even crappier on the PC) for hours to see this? No thanks. While I'm glad that they at least told us what the Oracle said to Niobe, It just dosn't seem right.

cartmen34 · 11-10-2003, 09:23 AM

I'm not about to shoot this movie to pieces. As a trilogy I loved it. It will become the Star Wars for our generation. It was entertaining. It served it's purpose as a movie. It entertained me.

However, I do have some questions/observations about the final episode:

1. What happened to the little girl and Seraph? What I mean is, the last time we (think) we see them is when they are in a small room, cornered by Smiths.....then suddently they re-appear at the closing scene? How did they get out of the smith filled room?

2. If a hovercraft can break through the clouds and see the sun....then why can't the machines build giant solar panels that reach through the clouds and access the sun?

Also, I would have liked to have heard the bartering that went on between the source and Neo. I can only assume the deal was that the humans would be left alone, and those still "plugged-in" would be made aware of their plight and given the choice to stay plugged-in or be freed. Right? anyone?

AND....I would have liked a better explanation of Neo's power outside of the matrix. After all, outside the matrix he is only human. Which is what the first movie went to great lenghts to make very clear...slight confusion. It's a basic plot line that contradicts itself in the end.

Well, ok, I guess I did pick apart the movie a little. I still loved it, and all three movies. Good times people.

DownwardSpiral · 11-10-2003, 10:07 AM

I don't see what was so wrong with Reloaded or Revolutions. Both kicked ass and I just don't really see what the deal is.

Mr. Spacemonkey · 11-10-2003, 10:08 AM

All the matrix movies were awesome if you ask me.

wondash · 11-10-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions can be wrong if they're based on plot information that isn't correct.

Opinions can never be wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by cartmen34
AND....I would have liked a better explanation of Neo's power outside of the matrix. After all, outside the matrix he is only human. Which is what the first movie went to great lenghts to make very clear...slight confusion. It's a basic plot line that contradicts itself in the end.

My number one complaint about the plot! Tons of speculation went into this question after the second movie. And the answer just doesn't live up to expectations (imo).

vector_1979 · 11-10-2003, 10:57 AM

I liked all the movies.

Although, one thing I need clarifying? Who is the French guy? Is he a program? Who wrote him?

redravin40 · 11-10-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vector_1979
I liked all the movies.

Although, one thing I need clarifying? Who is the French guy? Is he a program? Who wrote him?

He is a program just like the Oracle.
Probably started out as a information gathering program and developed sentience.
His wife might have been a program dealing with emotions etc.
Just like the Indian couple at the train station who are programs.

Quote:

1. What happened to the little girl and Seraph? What I mean is, the last time we (think) we see them is when they are in a small room, cornered by Smiths.....then suddently they re-appear at the closing scene? How did they get out of the smith filled room?

In the last scene after the battle between Smith and Neo, it was the oracle who was in the bottom of the pit.
They didn't escape, Smith took over the girl and Seraph.
When he lost they came back the same way the oracle did.

Lasereth · 11-10-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondash
Opinions can never be wrong.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but what if it's based on information that is not correct in the movie? Critics are giving Revolutions a lot of flak because "Agent Smith is stronger in Revolutions! How did he get stronger! Bullshit!" Um, he's not an agent anymore...hasn't been since it was clearly explained in Reloaded.

I guess I'll restate it as opinions aren't wrong, but some are more valid than others.

-Lasereth

cartmen34 · 11-10-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
In the last scene after the battle between Smith and Neo, it was the oracle who was in the bottom of the pit.
They didn't escape, Smith took over the girl and Seraph.
When he lost they came back the same way the oracle did.

Ah. of course. I realized why the oracle was at the bottom of the pit, I guess I just didn't put two and two together that the same thing would happen to all of the smith's take-overs. (I guess that's how you'd say it...lol)

BuddyHawks · 11-10-2003, 12:45 PM

Did anyone else get goosebumbs when the Logos broke the clouds and they saw the sun? Great scene!

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 02:01 PM

Well, alot of people sure do feel passionate about these movies, negative or positive. That's gotta be worth something.

First things first... I liked Revolutions and the more I think about it the more I like it.

I don't want to add to the confusion/anger, but I do want to talk about ideas/theories/possibilities of the movie. Let's get this thread back on track with some "Speculations".

I don't remember who it was that mentioned it, but I think some one hit the nail on the head with what happened at the end after Smith absorbed Neo. I think the machines tossed the Smith/Neo entity into the source to be absorbed back in. Evidence for this is in the white light coming out of Smith's eyes, remember in Reloaded when Neo walks into the Architects "room" the door is enveloped/shining with white light. I think this maybe the same white light.

Although being absorbed into the source does not mean death, seeing as how The One was supposed to be absorbed into the Source and then go out and restart Zion, so this does not explain Neo's death. I think that the machines assaulted Smith with everything they had. After absorbing Smith/Neo into the source and enacting all countermeasures/antiviral measures they could come up with to defeat Smith they also "unplugged"/killed Neo physically to deal the final blow to Smith. Maybe with the information downloaded into the Source it gave the Matrix the ability to tie all the separate Smith's together so that by killing the Smith/Neo entity it would chain-react to all the other versions.

I dunno what do you all think?

CSflim · 11-10-2003, 02:29 PM

Moobie, you're definately on the right track I believe.
Notice that the oracle has, at least some tiny bit of control over body, even though she is "a Smith".
"Everything that has a beginning, has an end....I mean... what did I just say!?"

So when Neo allowed himself to be taken over by Smith, a similar thing happened....EXCEPT, Neo was jacked directly into the "uber-machine" (didn't catch its name if there was one), so that meant Smith was also directly attached to the machine, alowing them to do some anti-virus magic, and get rid of Smith and all of the others.

At leats thats how I understood it.

Anyone come up with a reasonable theory for why EMPs weren't scattered liberally around Zion?

EDIT: changed "were" to "weren't"

11-08-2003, 08:41 AM	#243 (permalink)
Xiangsu Addict Location: Illinois	I thought the movie was awesome and I'm not even going to try to argue with any of you about that, even though your reasons for hating it, for the most part, and the inconsistencies you brought up dont really have any foundation. If you haven't seen this movie yet don't listen to anyone, watch the movie. Last edited by Xiangsu; 11-08-2003 at 08:44 AM..

11-08-2003, 09:23 AM	#244 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	If the machines use people as an energy source, then how can they let them all go free? __________________ Bad Luck City

11-08-2003, 10:17 PM	#249 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	OK... what's wrong with the sunrise ending? Beginning of a new day metaphor??? HELLO? ALSO, no one else seemed to NOTICE that the final shot in the Matrix HAD NO GREEN OVERTONES. Hence the IMPORTANCE of a SUNRISE with COLOR. HOPE this HELPS for people who have a tough time with MOVIES. __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-08-2003, 10:18 PM	#250 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	__________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-09-2003, 01:17 PM	#257 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	I don't get it I don't get it. Why did everyone hate revolutions so much? Not trying to say you're not entitled to your opinion, just wondering what you thought was so awful about it. Pretty much all of the posts here just keep reiterating how much it sucked, without giving any reasons. The only things that seems to be the problem is that it didn't wrap everything up into a nice tidy package. Is that REALLY so important to you? Yes revolutions did leave many things open to interpretation/further exploration, but is that really such a terrible sin? Is a movie that doesn't unambigously answer everything automatically worthless? The other thing which keeps coming up is how many inconsistencies in the plot there are. But (and I know you're going to hate me for saying this, but i must) pretty much all of the claims of plot holes, simply highlight, not a bad film, but a lack of understanding. Now I will conceed to some of them. Most notably, the complete and utter lack of emergency EMP deffence systems in zion. That one completly baffled me. I can understand how this might lessen your opinion of the movie to some extent, but it doesn't explain the sheer ANGER that so many of you are expressing. So, why did you hate revolutions so much? Again I must reiterate, that I'm not challeneging your opinion, just curious. __________________

11-08-2003, 12:17 AM	#241 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	I liked this one, like I liked Reloaded. But still, it's hard to believe all this when they don't explain why the machines don't build solar panels in space or even in the atomosphere. They obviously have the technology, Trinity breaking through the clouds in the ship shows they have it. Though, it seemed like the machines got zapped by lightening or something and fell back. But, if that's their explination for not building solar panels, it's not good enough. The ship was made of electronics, it didn't get zapped. I guess I'll just have to pretend that the machines, for some reason, can't build the solar panels.

11-08-2003, 09:24 AM	#245 (permalink)
Xiangsu Addict Location: Illinois	On a side note, I think some of you really need to watch the Animatrix renaissance 1&2. It helps you to understand the whole series a little bit more.

11-08-2003, 10:05 AM	#247 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	no, they are their many energy. It is all explained in the first movie as well as in the second renaissance 1&2. The machines all ran on solar power, humans blacked out the sky, but the machines soon began to use the thermal energy in humans to create energy by fusion. They beat the humans completely, than began growing them to create a vast, renewable source of energy. If you don't want to except this fundamnetal fact in the movie, then the rest of the movie's sci-fi elements kinda fall apart as well. The whole human-machine war, the reason for the Matrix, etc, etc.....

11-08-2003, 09:57 PM	#248 (permalink)
Monre Banned	The machines have solar reactors.The humans HAVE to be there for another reason You can't get energy to power your hover crafts and feed the humans out of the humans...come on people.

11-09-2003, 02:42 AM	#251 (permalink)
MangaMonkey Loser	Hi, I am sorry but seeing this movie just proved to me that the Wachowski brothers really had nothing revolutionary to say beyond the first amazing movie. They just ended up convincing me that they truly were a one-hit-wonder and that they just kept on spewing thinly veiled religious and philosophical bullshit to try to mesmerize people like they did with the original. But, then again, if they did anything else, it wouldn't be the Matrix, would it? They really bit themselves in the ass with this one, and it really all comes down to making money. The first movie was so innovative and original that it would be almost impossible to truly improve on it. In a way, they did all they could, but making sequels wasn't a good idea to begin with. The first movie was not made for the money but for the sake of telling an amazing story and making a revolutionary movie. These two movies were made to make money and to try to keep running with a story that should've ended with The Matrix. Too bad, as I didn't think Reloaded was bad, and I thought maybe Revolutions would live up to it's name and be Revolutionary. Oh, and one last thing, I can't believe how the Wachowski brothers copped out and used so many clichés, one-liners and cheesy gimmicks! I thought they were above that. Honestly, Revolutions was perhaps the most clichéd movie ever, using the tough but endearing drill sergeant, the "Last Man Standing" bit, the heroic citizens bit, the "Everyone-Dies-But-The-Main-Characters-Who-Survive-Long-Enough-To-Win-The-Day" bit, the fact that people survive long enough to tell their life story, and the list goes on. And what was with Morpheus in this one, anyways? He's been relegated from a badass dude to Will Smith's wife's bitch. Thanks, Manga

11-09-2003, 03:43 PM	#259 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	I enjoyed the movie. There were some holes but nothing that bothered me deeply. I am a sucker for the theme of people fighting against incredible odds. If you have read Arther C. Clarkes Foundation stories where the future is semi-predicted by computers a lot of The Oracles comments make sense. (I do wonder why they didn't think to build an exo-skeleton reloader for the infantry. Would have made much more sense then the set up they had.)

11-09-2003, 05:09 PM	#260 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	For the people who argue about the solar panels and the machines, just remember, it is a movie. The science, if you break it down would tear the story apart. For instance, why didn't Zion have itself surrounded for a hundred miles by layer upon layer of redundant emp's? Why didn't the machines use geothermal, nuclear or othe powers like huge space solar panels that send a constant laser beam down to the earth? Why didn't the machines use nukes all around the city to crush it? Just drill in from each side and set off some nukes a little bit out from the city. Why no poison gas or biological weapons? Why not swarms of tiny robots loaded with poison needles to puncture each person? Because it is a movie. So people, please not try to read too much into a movie because it is a story. Any movie, if analyzed, will fall apart. For instance, in almost any car chase in a movie, the streets are always wet like it has just been raining. But it never has been raining. So of course the cars are always sliding around. Oh, one more point. The APU's, those big robot exoskeletons the used, why would the operator of it sit out completely exposed to be sliced to ribbons? Couldn't they have built these people some armor shielding?

11-09-2003, 08:22 PM	#263 (permalink)
Xiangsu Addict Location: Illinois	About the energy thing, I just wanted to say don't you think in all the years that this war has been going on that the machines have found a backup source for energy? The humans wouldn't know because its not like they have diplomatic relations with the machines. The main purpose is to keep humans enslaved, the machines have seen what humans are capable of.

11-09-2003, 09:04 PM	#264 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	I personally loved the movie. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

11-10-2003, 01:31 AM	#266 (permalink)
MangaMonkey Loser	Hi, There is a difference between using a few campy one-liners that were obviously added for some comedic relief and horrible clichés used in a serious manner which were intended to be taken seriously. Thanks, Manga

11-10-2003, 06:03 AM	#267 (permalink)
T-Prime Banned	Like the others, not to challenge your opinion, but do you have an example to support your claim, Manga? About the whole human power thing... Ya gotta think, the Machines are there with a purpose. Their original purpose was to serve humans, and in a way, they're still serving humans by keeping them alive. The machines have no free will, they are without the ability to make choices (i.e. Smith's purpose is to kill Neo, and he lacks the ability to choose otherwise). I'm paraphrasing a paragraph I read explaining Reloaded: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm Here's the same guy's review of Revolutions: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm Last edited by T-Prime; 11-10-2003 at 06:28 AM..

11-10-2003, 08:06 AM	#269 (permalink)
BuddyHawks Swashbuckling Location: Iowa...sometimes	The major problem I have with Revolutions is the incorperation of the video game plot with the movie. I'm talking about Niobe going to see the Oracle. OK, I wish I could see that. What?, I have to play a crappy video game ( even crappier on the PC) for hours to see this? No thanks. While I'm glad that they at least told us what the Oracle said to Niobe, It just dosn't seem right. __________________ Watch More TV

11-10-2003, 09:23 AM	#270 (permalink)
cartmen34 Psycho Location: the hills of aquafina.	I'm not about to shoot this movie to pieces. As a trilogy I loved it. It will become the Star Wars for our generation. It was entertaining. It served it's purpose as a movie. It entertained me. However, I do have some questions/observations about the final episode: 1. What happened to the little girl and Seraph? What I mean is, the last time we (think) we see them is when they are in a small room, cornered by Smiths.....then suddently they re-appear at the closing scene? How did they get out of the smith filled room? 2. If a hovercraft can break through the clouds and see the sun....then why can't the machines build giant solar panels that reach through the clouds and access the sun? Also, I would have liked to have heard the bartering that went on between the source and Neo. I can only assume the deal was that the humans would be left alone, and those still "plugged-in" would be made aware of their plight and given the choice to stay plugged-in or be freed. Right? anyone? AND....I would have liked a better explanation of Neo's power outside of the matrix. After all, outside the matrix he is only human. Which is what the first movie went to great lenghts to make very clear...slight confusion. It's a basic plot line that contradicts itself in the end. Well, ok, I guess I did pick apart the movie a little. I still loved it, and all three movies. Good times people. __________________ "The problem with quick and dirty, as some people have said, is that the dirty remains long after the quick has been forgotten" - Steve McConnell

11-10-2003, 10:07 AM	#271 (permalink)
DownwardSpiral The Funeral of Hearts Location: Trapped inside my mind. . .	I don't see what was so wrong with Reloaded or Revolutions. Both kicked ass and I just don't really see what the deal is. __________________ "So Keep on Pretending. Our Heavens Worth the Waiting. Keep on Pretending. It's Alright." -- H.I.M., "Pretending"

11-10-2003, 10:08 AM	#272 (permalink)
Mr. Spacemonkey Wake up Location: Nowhere special	All the matrix movies were awesome if you ask me. __________________ "I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

11-10-2003, 10:57 AM	#274 (permalink)
vector_1979 Insane Location: In a Caddy Shack	I liked all the movies. Although, one thing I need clarifying? Who is the French guy? Is he a program? Who wrote him? __________________ ------------------------------------------------ Tip: Never do your shoe lace up in a revolving door

11-10-2003, 12:45 PM	#278 (permalink)
BuddyHawks Swashbuckling Location: Iowa...sometimes	Did anyone else get goosebumbs when the Logos broke the clouds and they saw the sun? Great scene! __________________ Watch More TV

11-10-2003, 02:01 PM	#279 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Well, alot of people sure do feel passionate about these movies, negative or positive. That's gotta be worth something. First things first... I liked Revolutions and the more I think about it the more I like it. I don't want to add to the confusion/anger, but I do want to talk about ideas/theories/possibilities of the movie. Let's get this thread back on track with some "Speculations". I don't remember who it was that mentioned it, but I think some one hit the nail on the head with what happened at the end after Smith absorbed Neo. I think the machines tossed the Smith/Neo entity into the source to be absorbed back in. Evidence for this is in the white light coming out of Smith's eyes, remember in Reloaded when Neo walks into the Architects "room" the door is enveloped/shining with white light. I think this maybe the same white light. Although being absorbed into the source does not mean death, seeing as how The One was supposed to be absorbed into the Source and then go out and restart Zion, so this does not explain Neo's death. I think that the machines assaulted Smith with everything they had. After absorbing Smith/Neo into the source and enacting all countermeasures/antiviral measures they could come up with to defeat Smith they also "unplugged"/killed Neo physically to deal the final blow to Smith. Maybe with the information downloaded into the Source it gave the Matrix the ability to tie all the separate Smith's together so that by killing the Smith/Neo entity it would chain-react to all the other versions. I dunno what do you all think? __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-10-2003, 02:29 PM	#280 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Moobie, you're definately on the right track I believe. Notice that the oracle has, at least some tiny bit of control over body, even though she is "a Smith". "Everything that has a beginning, has an end....I mean... what did I just say!?" So when Neo allowed himself to be taken over by Smith, a similar thing happened....EXCEPT, Neo was jacked directly into the "uber-machine" (didn't catch its name if there was one), so that meant Smith was also directly attached to the machine, alowing them to do some anti-virus magic, and get rid of Smith and all of the others. At leats thats how I understood it. Anyone come up with a reasonable theory for why EMPs weren't scattered liberally around Zion? EDIT: changed "were" to "weren't" __________________ Last edited by CSflim; 11-11-2003 at 03:03 AM..