Baraka's FFJ: A Storm of Swords, George R. R. Martin (SPOILERS) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Baraka_Guru · 11-26-2010, 09:11 AM

**Spoiler alert**

This is a book discussion thread for my Fabulous Fantastical Journey through fantasy literature. Discussions here are open and free, as it is assumed that those participating in the thread have read the material already. The use of spoiler tags would be cumbersome, and so they will not be used.

For more information, visit: Baraka's Fabulous Fantastical Journey

A Storm of Swords, George R. R. Martin: Book Three of A Song of Ice and Fire

Sorry for the delay in getting through this.

As some of you may know, I was participating in NaNoWriMo this month, plus I was in the midst of an editorial season between Sept/Oct, but now I've muscled my way through the rest of this book.

Well...that and it's freakin' huge. It weighs in at 404,000 words. For comparision, have a look at the Lord of the Rings—the epic fantasy to which all epic fantasies are compared—the entire thing weighs in at 454,000. None of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books broke the 400,000 mark.

So there we have it: Martin's third installment puts the "epic" back into "epic fantasy." I have the mass market paperback version, which is 1,128 page, not including the Appendix. The text is so tightly packed I thought I was going to go blind. Just kidding—I've seen worse. However, as an editor, I always keep things in perspective by recalculating typesetting vs. word count to get a real feel for it. By default, I measure 250 words as "a page," and so this book is more like 1,600 pages, compared to LoTR's 1,800. However, bear in mind that Storm of Swords is only one installment of the Song Ice and Fire sequence. Epic goodness.

Anyway, I can't hope to cover all the shit that went on in this book in one post (or ever), so I will put out some things that resonate with me.

Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister now stick out in my mind as favourite characters, followed closely by Arya Stark and Samwell Tarly. The reason behind this is because of their development and conflict within the greater story.

I appreciate the characterizations of Jamie Lannister and Brienne of Tarth, but they don't resonate as much.

Most of the other characters seem to fade into the background or seem to act as plot carriers. But that's fine. I see this book as being mostly about the plot anyway.

Characters I'm disappointed with are Catelyn Stark, Robb Stark, and Daeneyrs. Catelyn never seemed to break out of her quasi-powerlessness, Robb didn't develop beyond a background character, and Daenerys simply seems to balk and remain uncertain.

Catelyn has a chance to improve, with her apparent rise from the dead. I have no hope for Robb. Daenerys has the most potential, but I think Martin is dragging her out too much. She should do something and soon. (I'm assuming that's what's going to happen in a Dance of Dragons.) I had really hoped for more from Robb, but it never happened. I wanted him to follow his father's footsteps and avenge his father, but I guess that's more for Jon Snow (which, I suppose, is way better).

I know I've left stuff out, like the Davos perspective, but I don't have much to say about it at this point.

So much novel.

Generally, I would have appreciated more character development and less plot development. But it was enjoyable enough.

Thoughts?

spindles · 11-30-2010, 03:21 PM

This book is the start where you see a different side to Rhllor (Mellisandre's red god). He is also the god responsible for resurrecting Beric Dondarian and Catelyn. He/she seems to be the biggest reason Stannis goes to help the Night Watch.

It is interesting to note Barristan Selmy has gone to help Daenrys. He is old but held in high esteem and (still) seems to be a better knight than any of the current white cloaks. On this note, I'm warming to Jaime as a character - he is a lot more 'knightly' than his kingslayer tag.

Jon's assent to the Lord Commander's chair puts him in a powerful position, though you wonder how he will be able to stay out of the politics of the kings, especially with Stannis having provided him support.

Joffrey got what was coming to him. I (inwardly) cheered as he was choking

Margaery is lining up for her 3rd Baratheon husband - I'm not sure I'd want to marry her - she is just bad luck - watch out Tommen!

And on a side note - the clips and photos I've seen of the HBO series look bloody good!

snowy · 11-30-2010, 06:20 PM

Man, you are way behind the times. I finished this months ago. I suppose I should be grateful that I get so much time to read at work. By now, I've forgotten which events in the storyline were in A Storm of Swords and which were in A Feast for Crows. I suppose as the thread goes on, I'll be reminded.

I think one of the problems Martin faces in character development is the sheer scope; each book is already huge, and if he were really to spend time on character development, they would be even longer. I personally don't mind.

One of the things I really enjoy about these books is that they're full of "Holy crap! I can't believe that just happened!" moments--in a fantasy world with little magic, I find that quite a feat.

Speaking of character development: I think one of my favorite things is the development of Jaime Lannister as a character. He definitely becomes more interesting.

spindles · 11-30-2010, 06:59 PM

I'm the same snowy - so I just had a quick look at the plot summary here:

A Storm of Swords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

to try and make sure I stayed on topic, rather than wandering into Feast of Crows territory.

11-26-2010, 09:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Baraka's FFJ: A Storm of Swords, George R. R. Martin (SPOILERS) Spoiler alert This is a book discussion thread for my Fabulous Fantastical Journey through fantasy literature. Discussions here are open and free, as it is assumed that those participating in the thread have read the material already. The use of spoiler tags would be cumbersome, and so they will not be used. For more information, visit: Baraka's Fabulous Fantastical Journey A Storm of Swords, George R. R. Martin: Book Three of A Song of Ice and Fire Sorry for the delay in getting through this. As some of you may know, I was participating in NaNoWriMo this month, plus I was in the midst of an editorial season between Sept/Oct, but now I've muscled my way through the rest of this book. Well...that and it's freakin' huge. It weighs in at 404,000 words. For comparision, have a look at the Lord of the Rings—the epic fantasy to which all epic fantasies are compared—the entire thing weighs in at 454,000. None of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books broke the 400,000 mark. So there we have it: Martin's third installment puts the "epic" back into "epic fantasy." I have the mass market paperback version, which is 1,128 page, not including the Appendix. The text is so tightly packed I thought I was going to go blind. Just kidding—I've seen worse. However, as an editor, I always keep things in perspective by recalculating typesetting vs. word count to get a real feel for it. By default, I measure 250 words as "a page," and so this book is more like 1,600 pages, compared to LoTR's 1,800. However, bear in mind that Storm of Swords is only one installment of the Song Ice and Fire sequence. Epic goodness. Anyway, I can't hope to cover all the shit that went on in this book in one post (or ever), so I will put out some things that resonate with me. Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister now stick out in my mind as favourite characters, followed closely by Arya Stark and Samwell Tarly. The reason behind this is because of their development and conflict within the greater story. I appreciate the characterizations of Jamie Lannister and Brienne of Tarth, but they don't resonate as much. Most of the other characters seem to fade into the background or seem to act as plot carriers. But that's fine. I see this book as being mostly about the plot anyway. Characters I'm disappointed with are Catelyn Stark, Robb Stark, and Daeneyrs. Catelyn never seemed to break out of her quasi-powerlessness, Robb didn't develop beyond a background character, and Daenerys simply seems to balk and remain uncertain. Catelyn has a chance to improve, with her apparent rise from the dead. I have no hope for Robb. Daenerys has the most potential, but I think Martin is dragging her out too much. She should do something and soon. (I'm assuming that's what's going to happen in a Dance of Dragons.) I had really hoped for more from Robb, but it never happened. I wanted him to follow his father's footsteps and avenge his father, but I guess that's more for Jon Snow (which, I suppose, is way better). I know I've left stuff out, like the Davos perspective, but I don't have much to say about it at this point. So much novel. Generally, I would have appreciated more character development and less plot development. But it was enjoyable enough. Thoughts? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 11-26-2010 at 09:38 AM..

11-30-2010, 03:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	This book is the start where you see a different side to Rhllor (Mellisandre's red god). He is also the god responsible for resurrecting Beric Dondarian and Catelyn. He/she seems to be the biggest reason Stannis goes to help the Night Watch. It is interesting to note Barristan Selmy has gone to help Daenrys. He is old but held in high esteem and (still) seems to be a better knight than any of the current white cloaks. On this note, I'm warming to Jaime as a character - he is a lot more 'knightly' than his kingslayer tag. Jon's assent to the Lord Commander's chair puts him in a powerful position, though you wonder how he will be able to stay out of the politics of the kings, especially with Stannis having provided him support. Joffrey got what was coming to him. I (inwardly) cheered as he was choking Margaery is lining up for her 3rd Baratheon husband - I'm not sure I'd want to marry her - she is just bad luck - watch out Tommen! And on a side note - the clips and photos I've seen of the HBO series look bloody good! __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

11-30-2010, 06:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Man, you are way behind the times. I finished this months ago. I suppose I should be grateful that I get so much time to read at work. By now, I've forgotten which events in the storyline were in A Storm of Swords and which were in A Feast for Crows. I suppose as the thread goes on, I'll be reminded. I think one of the problems Martin faces in character development is the sheer scope; each book is already huge, and if he were really to spend time on character development, they would be even longer. I personally don't mind. One of the things I really enjoy about these books is that they're full of "Holy crap! I can't believe that just happened!" moments--in a fantasy world with little magic, I find that quite a feat. Speaking of character development: I think one of my favorite things is the development of Jaime Lannister as a character. He definitely becomes more interesting. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

11-30-2010, 06:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	I'm the same snowy - so I just had a quick look at the plot summary here: A Storm of Swords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to try and make sure I stayed on topic, rather than wandering into Feast of Crows territory. __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?