Zeraph

Gods and Demigods need not apply as they are a bit too hard to gauge their power level. For instance Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen is fairly omniscient (even if some of it can be blocked) and can be in multiple places at once, and hence qualifies as a demigod so he doesn't count for this discussion. Another example of a demigod would be Cthulu or any of the Old Ones. Anything that was born before time, or alters time and space, is generally considered a demigod.

Doctor Who would be a tough call, as really its the TARDIS that affects time and space, but he's kind of symbiotically attached to it...he might be considered a demigod. You could make a case either way.

I would go with Alucard, from Hellsing. He is their version of Count Dracula on steroids. Effectively immortal, none of the normal vampire weaknesses apply like sunlight, religious symbols, or stakes. He can regenerate and reform his entire body from a drop of blood (or reform from possibly nothing at all, its hard to tell, they never say out right, but considering he can live in a state of amorphousness and he's immortal...). He can shapeshift, even transform into a demon or amorphous darkness. It's hard to gauge how fast he is but he can traverse rooms in the blink of an eye. All this plus standard vampire tricks like hypnotism, telepathy, etc. He's also incredibly skilled and uses technology, expert marksmen, etc.

I think he could beat most versions of superman even without kryptonite And even the insane supermans would be a draw, but with kryptonite he'd easily win.


His only potential weakness is that Van Helsing somehow found a way to make Alucard work for the Helsing family. Yet he's clearly not enslaved. It's one of the mysteries of the series.

Baraka_Guru

My vote is for Gandalf the White (formerly Gandalf the Grey) in The Lord of the Rings.

Just one example of his feats include his single-handed smiting of the Balrog of Moria.


And he has friends in high places, which is powerful in itself. Dude gets himself killed but gets "sent back" because he still has shit to do.

Of course, it could be argued that Gandalf has a demi-godlike status. Let me know if you want him discounted.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Walt

Batman, hands down.

He's repeatedly beat the crap out of the JLA - Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter - presumably with his giant testicles.

__________________
Calmer than you are...

Zeraph

Hmm, Gandalf is a tough call. Outwardly, especially in the movies he doesn't appear to be demigod status. On the other hand, I remember reading something in the Similarion that equated Wizards to a much higher power than mere magical humans. The wiki says wizards are Maiar, the same order as Valar (but slightly lesser in power), which were something like angels that chose to come to middle-earth and were sometimes worshiped as gods. Sounds really close to demigods to me. But I'll wait to hear from someone who knows more about Lord of the Rings to comment. I know we have a few big fans on the board.

Willravel

Leto II, maybe? Q? Or are they too close to "gods"?

If we mean non-supernatural beings, I'd guess Ender or Peter Wiggin.

Zeraph

Supernatural is fine. Q from Star Trek? As I recall he could manipulate time and space. i.e. demigod. In other words, if the character can go back in time to kill another character before he is born, or if he can freeze time, and transport a character into another dimension, that is pretty much a demigod. There's nothing one can do against a character like that, and therefore, his power can't really be measured.

Letto from Dune? He'd be fine I think. He could see his future, but only his own surrounding immediate future, not omniscient. Tough to kill, but still pretty killable. Ender was a genius but still just a kid. Who is Peter Wiggin?

LoganSnake

Silver Surfer.

__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

Jetée

What about non-sentient beings?

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Zeraph

I don't know Jetee, who is that?
It'd be nice if you guys include explanations and powers and such.

Just wikiing the silver surfer (maybe not all versions have this much power?) it says he can travel faster than the speed of light and travel through time, which means demigod.

Halx

I know you said none of these, but.. I'm gonna say the god that appears in the bible. Omnipotent. Fictional. So powerful that people trick themselves into actually believing he exists.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Zeraph

Plus he gave himself plot immunity! h4x!

Jetée

Voltron, a super-robo-lion-fixture-combo-package-giant-destroyer, YAH! (not sure if the Speed Racer talking helps his case).

Also wields the 'blazing sword', which is bad news to every single galactic baddie in the universe.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Zeraph

If he doesn't violate time, space, knowledge, or infinity, then I don't think sentience would matter so long as he is a character in a story somewhere.

What are his accomplishments?

YaWhateva

Franklin Richards. Probably counts as a demigod in your eyes, but he's pretty much the most powerful mutant in Marvel Comics.

Franklin Richards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Jetée

Isn't Iceman also "one of the strongest" mutants in the Marvel Universe? If they both are just as strong, wouldn't it be fair to say that in a contest between the two, Iceman wins, due to the fact that rubber (well, anything really) exposed to extreme freezing is vulnerable?

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

dlish

why Xeryxs of course

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

YaWhateva

Franklin Richards is the son of Mr. Fantastic. He has the ability to "warp reality on a cosmic scale". Basically, he can make any thought he wants into reality. He can also rearrange matter at the molecular level, and he has telekinesis, telepathy, precognition and astral projection. The Celestials hold him as being on par with themselves, according to wikipedia.

And yes, Iceman is one of the strongest mutants, but he has yet to develop all of his powers. His powers can influence an entire world and its ecosystem.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Jetée

Oh, yeah. My mistake. Any progeny of the main mutant protagonists (Richards, Summers, etc.) come out exponentially more powerful than their parents before them.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Xerxys

True.

In The Silmarilion the wizards were apprentices of the Valar. Lord Sauron, I do not remember what his name was before he was corrupted by Melkor (who is some sort of "the first satan") was also a Maiar.

The only thing in the Middle Earth Universe not explained well was Goblins. Tolkien never explained where they came from. Anyone knows?
________________

In existing times, I HAVE to pick Xerxes! The man was legendary. Everything you know of Lord Voldermort, Sauron or even Hellspont came from him. He was the first (known) one to prohibit his name from being spoken. He began the Egyptian God-King tradition. His influence was so remarkable rivaled only by Jesus.

But fictional? A character evolved out of pure might to integrity and wit combined? I can't think of one better than Superman. He has more than one ability. Is good, and has many times overcome Kryptonite.

levite

The wizards in Tolkein's mythos, according to his notes as set forth in "Unfinished Tales," and elsewhere in his collected manuscripts, are Maiar, who are beings of the same "divine" nature as the Valar, but of less degree in power and wisdom. Both the Valar and the Maiar were created by Eru Iluvatar (essentially, God) prior to the Making of Ea (the Creation of the physical world), and the Valar and the Maiar were said to "descend" into the created world after its initial making, in order to act as the regents of Iluvatar, ruling over the existence of all created things except for the Eruhini, the Children of Iluvatar-- that is, Elves and Men (Dwarves were something of an accident, but we are told Iluvatar considers them, "the children of My adoption").

Tolkein tells us that when Sauron (whose "original" name is not revealed, although we are told that in ancient days, when he was still the lieutenant of Morgoth [the byname for Melkor, the "fallen" Vala, the primordial diabolos of Tolkien's myths], the Sindarin Elves of Beleriand called him Gorthaur the Cruel) arose again in Middle Earth as a power of evil, following his inadvertent disbodiment during the Downfall of Numenor, the Valar became concerned for the fate of Elves and Men, and it was suggested that emissaries be sent from among the people of Valinor to assist the Free Peoples in whatever subtle and discreet ways they might find best.

These emissaries come to Middle Earth by ship, and all have taken the shape of men, old, but hardy; and in becoming "incarnate" within Middle Earth, they voluntarily lose a great portion of their powers, and much of the clarity of their Valinorean memories. They also retain their free will, permitting them to adhere to their original mission, or to depart from it, or even to fall and oppose it, as fortune may fall.

The foremost of these, we are told, is a Maia known as Curumo, who is attached to the artisan people of the Vala called Aule the Smith. In Middle Earth, this Maia appears robed in white, and turns his name as Curunir, which the Men of the Northward parts of Middle Earth translate into their tongue as Saruman. The second, who travelled with him, is a Maia called Aiwendil, who is attached to the nature people of the Vala called Yavanna Kementari, the Green-Grower. In Middle Earth, this Maia Men call Radagast, and he appears robed in brown. Two others are sent, whose names are not clear, robed in blue: they disappear into the East of Middle-Earth and are not heard from again. The last is Olorin, one of the Maiar of the Vala Nienna the Sorrowful, Mistress of Pity and Compassion. He appears robed in grey, and he is called by the Elves Mithrandir, and by the Men in the North, Gandalf.

Those five are the Heren Istarion, the Order of Wizards, and only Olorin returns to Valinor, to take up again his old name and place. Even he is not quite the same, as his body is "killed" by the Balrog of Moria, and when he is "sent back," to complete his mission he is, apparently in the interests of critical time, rebodied in the location of his death, rather than rebodied in Valinor and sent back over the Sea by ship. And in this "emergency" rebodying, he is permitted to retain more of his innate powers as a Maia, and clearer memories of his Valinorean past. Thus he comes to be, briefly, "Gandalf the White."

Sorry, I had to answer that. I did my English thesis on Tolkien and his works....

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Xerxys

^^ Goblins ... GOBLINS!!

Fremen

The Jedi and Sith.

__________________
Google

ratbastid

Geeeeeeeeeeek!

Kidding. That's super awesome, actually. lurkette re-reads the entire LOTR and Silmarilion at least once a year. She's our local Tolkien encyclopedia. Many times she's run through some characters whole "is know by the dwarves as Har-dûr, whom the elves call Farfarfardiel, who is known to the men of the North as Splinky...". I only have so much patience for that off the page, but when recited by a cute girl, it has a certain charm.

Also, re the OP... Um Galactus! Eating planets, people! Can you eat a planet? I rest my case.

Leto

For obvious reasons, I would throw in with Leto II. But even Superman could handle Leto, if Leto wasn't paying attention. Leto could see his own future, but he would have to be ready to fight. He is kinda Hari Seldon-esque (from the Foundation series).

Superman is just plain powerful, and good, and I don't see how any Batman could beat him.

Q from Star Trek is definitely up there. he could beat Superman, and so could anybody from Krypton, or for that matter anybody else who is devious. So I would go with Q. Is Q a god?

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

LoganSnake

I don't think Superman should even be on this list. There are way too many characters who would be able to kick his ass. Some much faster than others.

__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

Xerxys

@ Leto It's my understanding that Q is an omniscient being from the fourth dimension. He is a child compared to other members of his race and he like coming to the third dimension to play seeing as he can do anything here.

Once his powers were stripped by the authorities and he came under attack by another species that exists as energy. When he attempted to sacrifice himself for the benefit of the Star Trek crew he was granted his fourth dimension status again on condition he stop messing with us.

I very much feel that Superman is indeed powerful in his own right. Other characters who could beat superman could probably be beat by a lesser powerful creature (lesser to superman) due to their immensely easily exploitable weaknesses.

That and Superman has evolved so far as to not be held to the same principles of death.

ring

Pierson's Puppeteers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I go all 'Hindmost' frequently.
Cowardice is very powerful.

Zeraph

Franklin Richards, and Q are both gods/demigods hands down. They can both change an entire reality. Its not about the character being called a god or worshiped as one, but as it has to do with their abilities and if they can be compared to a god.

So far I'd say Iceman is actually one of the best candidates. Superman only if there's no kryptonite around. Voltron I don't know anything about. Alucard still sounds the toughest; Iceman gets tired, Alucard doesn't. Gandalf's "human" form counts I suppose but he takes a lot longer to reform than Alucard when he dies.

Xerxys- What's happened to superman when he's been exposed to serious amounts of kryptonite and then shot a lot/killed? Or has the story always stopped just before that's happened?

Leto

But... he's Superman! He can take a relaxing bath in the middle of the sun, he doesn't seem to need to worry about the vacuum of space or inertia, he can reverse the rotation of a planet, he can travel faster than a speeding bullet, nay, faster than light!


Not too many can kick his ass, as he manages to win as he stands for truth and justice. I bet even Cthulhu would quiver in his watery abode at the thought of mixing it up with the dude from Krypton.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Zeraph

The silver age comic super mans (or whatever they're called) where he can travel faster than light and go back in time don't count. Most fans don't even count those versions anymore Also, I'm pretty sure he just slowly dies if kryptonite is around. That's a pretty big glaring weakness. And its one everyone knows about. Its not like its even a secret. A normal human with a kryptonite necklace can beat superman up. That's pretty bad.

MPower

How about Molecule Man, in the marvel U? Not quite Franklin R. but damn close.

LoganSnake

So can Silver Surfer. Except that he doesn't lose his mojo when presented with kryptonite.

__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

ObieX

Q is worshiped in some star trek alien cultures as an evil or mischievous god.

Adria from stargate gets pretty powerful toward the end of the series, absorbing the power of the Ori that were killed off. I guess she would also be considered a god tho.

My vote will have to go toward Jean Grey as the Dark Phoenix. Tho really any mutant can have their powers taken away through various means (Rogue can take them, for example.)

Hmm... i can pick two characters out of the star trek universe alone that would be pretty powerful other than Q: Charlie X from TOS and Nagilum from TNG.

Basically any character that can pretty much instantly think you out of existance is gonna be tough to beat. There were a few such characers in either the twilight zone and/or the outer limits shows.

__________________
We Must Dissent.

levite

In the Silmarillion and in "Unfinished Tales," as well as elsewhere in his notes and manuscripts, Tolkien describes the origins of the Orcs (who are referred to as "goblins" almost exclusively in The Hobbit) as being at the hands of Morgoth (the byname for Melkor, the Vala of Hate and Terror).

In the first days of the existence of the Elves (the first Elves were said to have "awakened" under starlight-- i.e., before the time of the sun and moon, during the epoch of the Two Trees of Valinor-- at a place in Middle-Earth called Cuivienen, or "Water of Awakening"), before they had encountered the Valar, even before the Elven clans split to form the different Elven peoples, Morgoth sent forth from his fortress of Utumno in the far North, hunters and spies, who captured Elves and brought them back to Morgoth's pits. There, using the corruptions of slow torture, cruelty, and black magic, Morgoth broke them, debased them, and from them bred the race of Orcs, in mockery of the Children of Iluvatar. It is implied that in later times, Sauron, and perhaps Saruman also, continued this controlled breeding program, introducing broken and debased Men into the Orc blood-pool.

But Tolkien is quite clear that this breeding of Orcs from a base of broken Elves and Men is the only way that Orcs could have initially come about, because he says that Orcs mate and multiply independently and of their own accord, after the same general fashion as do Elves and Men, and thus it is clear that they have life of their own, they are "true" living creatures, not merely homunculi that move when their master thinks to move them. And since only Eru Iluvatar is capable creating "true," independently living creatures-- no Vala, no matter how powerful, could do so-- the origin of the Orcs must lie among Elves and Men.

---

@OP: Probably gonna have to go with Phoenix, although I could undersnd disqualifying her as a demigod....

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

oliver9184

HANCOCK

m0rpheus

Depends on which Superman you're talking about.

Silver Age Superman could kick the asses of pretty much anyone on this list. You name it and he could do it. Plus he was mandated by DC back then to never EVER lose.

Modern Superman would hold his own against a bunch of them but isn't the peak Superman.

Various Supermen though would wipe the floor with most of these guys. Superman in Morrison's All-Star run and the Superman from Kingdom Come come to mind. Both have been supercharged by the sun and rank right up there with the Silver age Supes.

Oh and Batman only beats Superman when he's mind-controlled, or at lesser power.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

ratbastid

Most notably when Batman's rollin' green with the kryptonite Supes gave him "just in case".

Fremen

Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate would be good candidates for most powerful fictional character.

Both could beat Supes with their magic.

As for Molecule Man, he would be classified as a demigod due to his ability to manipulate matter at will, and I believe time, as well. The Beyonder would be a demigod, too.

__________________
Google

Xerxys

Phoenix is very powerful despite the fact that she didn't have time to let her level 5 abilities grow. She was caged inside Jean Grey for a long time by professor Xavier. With enough time she could have the ability to remap her entire body to immortality and beyond. She was, however, mentally broken before the Professor got to her. It doesn't explain though why Jean was unable to use her powers without undue distress.

Now, I read all the essays of Tolkien in the Unfinisdhed Tales and was unable to get info on Goblins. I know Orcs came from Elves initially making them a strong and combative force (much like Ants) and Uruk'ai (sp?) were the amalgamation of both Orcs and Men add to that very well trained and good at taking orders. So I assume they either came from a lower breed of Dwarves. The same way the hobbit Smeagol was transformed into Golum by the One Ring.

I do disagree though that they were unmoved or not influenced heavily by Darkness because in the end of the Trilogy it says they all became afraid when they sensed Saurons departure from the dimension. They were all filled with fear and sudden foreboding when he was destroyed. Initially they were very confident because Sauron could sense his Ringh was near coming to him when Sam put it on.

Supermans blood reacts like rapid photosynthesis when in contact with the radioactive material but it has great amounts of regenerative properties. As long as it doesn't clot or left dead AND around Kryptonite long enough to finish him off he will eventually recover.

In the Animated movie Doomsday the beast (doomsday) almost destroyed him. But his body was still intact. So he recovered. Superman is powerful because he is the only one of his kind and no such environment (native home) such as the red sun exists in order to incapacitate him. For his weaknesses he makes up for with resourcefulness. Anything more than him then definitely goes into the DemiGod category.

I could very easily have picked Clair Bennet but she can die in an extreeme fire if jabbed in the back of the head with a sharp stick! So if you refuse Superman then go with Sylar.

/virgin.

m0rpheus

I'll add in this guy


Galactus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson