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Suffering from post-Avatar depression? Virtual worlds that become too real

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Audiences experience 'Avatar' blues
By Jo Piazza, Special to CNN
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* Some fans say James Cameron's "Avatar" may have been too real
* "Avatar Forums" has a topic thread discussing depression over "Pandora being intangible"
* Cameron's movie has pulled in more than $1.4 billion in worldwide box office

(CNN) -- James Cameron's completely immersive spectacle "Avatar" may have been a little too real for some fans who say they have experienced depression and suicidal thoughts after seeing the film because they long to enjoy the beauty of the alien world Pandora.

On the fan forum site "Avatar Forums," a topic thread entitled "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible," has received more than 1,000 posts from people experiencing depression and fans trying to help them cope. The topic became so popular last month that forum administrator Philippe Baghdassarian had to create a second thread so people could continue to post their confused feelings about the movie.

"I wasn't depressed myself. In fact the movie made me happy ," Baghdassarian said. "But I can understand why it made people depressed. The movie was so beautiful and it showed something we don't have here on Earth. I think people saw we could be living in a completely different world and that caused them to be depressed."

A post by a user called Elequin expresses an almost obsessive relationship with the film.

"That's all I have been doing as of late, searching the Internet for more info about 'Avatar.' I guess that helps. It's so hard I can't force myself to think that it's just a movie, and to get over it, that living like the Na'vi will never happen. I think I need a rebound movie," Elequin posted.

A user named Mike wrote on the fan Web site "Naviblue" that he contemplated suicide after seeing the movie.

"Ever since I went to see 'Avatar' I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na'vi made me want to be one of them. I can't stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film and all of the tears and shivers I got from it," Mike posted. "I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora and the everything is the same as in 'Avatar.' "

Other fans have expressed feelings of disgust with the human race and disengagement with reality.

Cameron's movie, which has pulled in more than $1.4 billion in worldwide box office sales and could be on track to be the highest grossing film of all time, is set in the future when the Earth's resources have been pillaged by the human race. A greedy corporation is trying to mine the rare mineral unobtainium from the planet Pandora, which is inhabited by a peace-loving race of 10-foot tall, blue-skinned natives called the Na'vi.

In their race to mine for Pandora's resources, the humans clash with the Na'vi, leading to casualties on both sides. The world of Pandora is reminiscent of a prehistoric fantasyland, filled with dinosaur-like creatures mixed with the kinds of fauna you may find in the deep reaches of the ocean. Compared with life on Earth, Pandora is a beautiful, glowing utopia.

Ivar Hill posts to the "Avatar" forum page under the name Eltu. He wrote about his post-"Avatar" depression after he first saw the film earlier this month.

"When I woke up this morning after watching Avatar for the first time yesterday, the world seemed ... gray. It was like my whole life, everything I've done and worked for, lost its meaning," Hill wrote on the forum. "It just seems so ... meaningless. I still don't really see any reason to keep ... doing things at all. I live in a dying world."

Reached via e-mail in Sweden where he is studying game design, Hill, 17, explained that his feelings of despair made him desperately want to escape reality.

"One can say my depression was twofold: I was depressed because I really wanted to live in Pandora, which seemed like such a perfect place, but I was also depressed and disgusted with the sight of our world, what we have done to Earth. I so much wanted to escape reality," Hill said.

Cameron's special effects masterpiece is very lifelike, and the 3-D performance capture and CGI effects essentially allow the viewer to enter the alien world of Pandora for the movie's 2½-hour running time, which only lends to the separation anxiety some individuals experience when they depart the movie theater.

"Virtual life is not real life and it never will be, but this is the pinnacle of what we can build in a virtual presentation so far," said Dr. Stephan Quentzel, psychiatrist and Medical Director for the Louis Armstrong Center for Music and Medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York. "It has taken the best of our technology to create this virtual world and real life will never be as utopian as it seems onscreen. It makes real life seem more imperfect."

Fans of the movie may find actor Stephen Lang, who plays the villainous Col. Miles Quaritch in the film, an enemy of the Na'vi people and their sacred ground, an unlikely sympathizer. But Lang says he can understand the connection people are feeling with the movie.

"Pandora is a pristine world and there is the synergy between all of the creatures of the planet and I think that strikes a deep chord within people that has a wishfulness and a wistfulness to it," Lang said. "James Cameron had the technical resources to go along with this incredibly fertile imagination of his and his dream is built out of the same things that other peoples' dreams are made of."

The bright side is that for Hill and others like him -- who became dissatisfied with their own lives and with our imperfect world after enjoying the fictional creation of James Cameron -- becoming a part of a community of like-minded people on an online forum has helped them emerge from the darkness.

"After discussing on the forums for a while now, my depression is beginning to fade away. Having taken a part in many discussions concerning all this has really, really helped me," Hill said. "Before, I had lost the reason to keep on living -- but now it feels like these feelings are gradually being replaced with others."

Quentzel said creating relationships with others is one of the keys to human happiness, and that even if those connections are occurring online they are better than nothing.

"Obviously there is community building in these forums," Quentzel said. "It may be technologically different from other community building, but it serves the same purpose."

Within the fan community, suggestions for battling feelings of depression after seeing the movie include things like playing "Avatar" video games or downloading the movie soundtrack, in addition to encouraging members to relate to other people outside the virtual realm and to seek out positive and constructive activities.

Audiences experience 'Avatar' blues - CNN.com

Read the Avatar Forums thread here: Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible. - Avatar-Forums.com

So....James Cameron and his team have created a world so realistic—so desirable—that a slew of people are now suffering from depression at the realization that world of Pandora isn't real. They long after a world like Pandora but are stuck with their own reality on Earth.

Interesting. This tells me two things:

James Cameron has been highly successful in his filmmaking wizardry. His creation is so lifelike that it engages people in unprecedented ways. I'm not sure if he had any idea it would be this "good."
We've reached a turning point in humanity with regard to mind-body experiences. Between video games and films, we are getting to the point where we are faced with the dilemma of choosing the virtual over the real. Think World of Warcraft and now Avatar in terms of how absorbed people get into these things. And it will only get more powerful, especially considering there's a James Cameronesque development team who might one day soon create an MMO of Avatar calibre.

What do you think?

Is this something we should continue pursuing, or is it dangerous to our mental health?

How deeply do things such as World of Warcraft and Avatar affect you psychologically and imaginatively?

Are you looking forward to the next big thing, or are you more concerned about whether you should find a better way to tune into reality?

Having watched a cam version I was left with liking some of the story lines.
That's about it. It would be interesting to get the full treatment and see how I feel.
Not likely. I haven't been to a moving picture house since the 1980s when someone took me on her birthday.

I have never played video games. (I don't think Pac-Man counts)

I do have very realistic dreams however.
Sometimes I wake up with a longing feeling for where I was just moments before.
My dreams are as real as my awake life.
No lingering depression though.

The thousands of books I've read, have left deep long lasting mind's eye images.
I was a little bummed for awhile
that I couldn't really live in Lothlorien. (but I was 11 at that time.)

What is real? Didn't that question come up in the movie Matrix?

The Toltec Masters believe we are dreaming 24 hours a day.
Our waking and sleeping dreams.

The only dangers I've heard about, WoW, (and others)
is that it's so easy for people to escape into a land other than the mundane
daily physical plane and its requirements.

I am a computer widow.
My ex-husband could not stop playing "Ages of Empires" and others,
during almost all of his time after work.

That reminds me of something. It's not too late for me to sign up
for the book discussion at the library.

I can somewhat relate to the Avatar depression group. I had a twinge of sadness after the movie because I knew that our world will never be like Pandora and the relationship that the Na'vi have with the biosphere of Pandora will never be real either. The way the movie is constructed, the music, the cinematography, everything about it makes you love the Na'vi and Pandora and develop a real emotion on whether or not it's demoed for rock.

Not many movies have this big of a reaction out of me, especially a reaction of longing for it to be real. I think ring is right; a dream that you wanted to be real so bad can have the exact same effect.

I also agree with you Baraka. The moment a dev team creates a world as engrossing and awe-inspiring as Pandora in a videogame, we're all doomed. :) WoW isn't nearly as engrossing as Avatar but I can see a game being made that could do it.

The visual and aural effect is what did it in Avatar. The music, the amazing presentation, the flawless blend of CGI are what made this idea so heartfelt. The Na'vi and its world have been done in the past, but imagery portrayed as beautifully as in Avatar hasn't. The absolute reason Avatar worked so well is because the animation and CGI in the movie is absolutely indistinguishable from real life imagery. When a game does this, or comes close to this, I think the same feeling will erupt in people. Except they will be able to quench their thirst. WoW addiction is bad but it will be nothing compared to an MMO that has the same effect on people as Avatar.

Really? Depression from a film?
The way I felt after walking out of the movie was akin to finishing a really good book.
If your imagination does not run wild and free while you're reading, transporting your mind and soul to another universe, you're doing things differently than me...

I wasn't depressed but I was a little saddened at how fat and gross our world is and especially how people behave toward each other. I knew it already but watching avatar is like twisting the knife.

I think we should continue pursuing such fantasy projects. They're what inspire us as a whole to become better. Have you ever seen that show from the History Channel on the original Star Trek? That inspired sooo many budding scientists to build a ton of new inventions.

I'm looking forward to the next big thing, but then I don't really have a problem balancing my life with these things.

How bad could it be if everyone became wire-headed to a utopian world?

The bloody wars could end (the real sticky visceral pain bloody sort.)

We might already be inventing the good nanny machines,
to tend and water us. (A sort of cogent subconcious desire to survive and yet 'do no harm')
It might give our beloved Gaia a chance to heal too.

I just finished reading Orson Scott Card's Memory Of Earth

That explains my current synapse firings.

I have no grasp on what the young folk of this era are dealing with.

So much has lept in just a few decades.

My Grandma as a young woman was a Flapper in the 20's
My young Mother had to endure the frigid colorless 50's
I surfed the echoes of the beat, and the first of the punk era.

We're just brief blinks in this world & there's so much to see.

I await the day when we can begin transference from our physical state, to a superior dreamstate which can simulate or surpass our current ability to take in the 5 senses.

We should absolutely pursue this. It might be effective in culling the herd.

(you've got to be kidding me.)

I agree with secretmethod, people liked a foreign world so much they want to kill themselves?

They have clearly not seen what earth has to offer. One of the big reasons I go hiking and like to ridge walk the top of mountains is because it is absolutely breathtaking. Maybe these people need to get their asses off their couches and actually visit the world they live on.

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Originally Posted by blahblah454 (Post 2748038)

this.

Wow...this is pretty crazy imo. I agree with blahblah454 - there are plenty of natural wonders to look at and explore that will leave you breathless and in awe of earth.

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Originally Posted by blahblah454 (Post 2748038)

But this wasn't the whole issue with a lot of people. Many of them were depressed about the impossibility of the everyday lives of the Na'vi. They long to live like the Na'vi, not see some breathtaking vista a few miles outside of a tourist trap on a week-long vacation once a year.

How old are the rest of these people that were interviewed?
Mr. Hill is seventeen.

I heard about this yesterday.

My thoughts then were "How pathetic! Get off the computer or the couch and go enjoy the life you do have"

My thoughts now? Exactly the same. Pathetic.

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Originally Posted by guccilvr (Post 2748229)

I heard about this yesterday.

My thoughts then were "How pathetic! Get off the computer or the couch and go enjoy the life you do have"

My thoughts now? Exactly the same. Pathetic.

Yes, get off your couch and go to work for 40 hours a week so you can go home and worry about bills and taking care of your family. This is easily as much fun as exploring the world of Pandora.

We are all in the same soup here.
Some of us find escape in a bottle of ethanol, or a bottle of pills.

Some of us find escape with food, sports, porn, anger, self pity,
fear, rage, and so on.

I have found myself judging others at times for their method of 'escape'

I'm the same as you, and you're the same as me.

yeah.. because that's all there is to life.. working.

let's go explore a world that will never exist and be all depressed and sad instead of taking the life we do have by the horns and having fun with it.

yeah.... pathetic.

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Originally Posted by ring (Post 2748265)

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Originally Posted by blahblah454 (Post 2748038)

I agree but...
when humanity invades nature, we just destroy it.

The Avatar response looks like a 'run of the mill' existential crisis. The replies in this thread run along the same vein and for some reason it's cracking me up. That or image of the 'Church of the Na'vi".

I don't really see this as any different than any other utopian fantasy. Some people will get over it, some people will be consumed by it. Such is life.

I'd like to reply to this with something deep or meaningful but I just can't. This is with out a doubt one of the saddest things I've ever heard and actually makes me a little angry. Get off your ass and go and see the world we actually live in and maybe try to make your own life worth living...the depression should clear up pretty quick.

Jesus just the fucking arrogance of it makes my blood boil...The amount of suffering this world sees on a daily basis, starvation, war, natural disasters, extreme poverty, disease, homelessness...and people are depressed because their sad little lives aren't like a make believe place in a movie? Are you kidding me?

Just unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth (Post 2750671)

Jesus just the fucking arrogance of it makes my blood boil...

YES, IT IS SO ARROGANT TO HAVE AN UNCONTROLLABLE EMOTIONAL REACTION TO A MOVIE. Which is generally considered a sign of great film making. Definitely blood boil status here!!!

Ha, all art is dangerous, then. Plato was on the right track in the Republic, but we should go beyond just the poets; we should banish all artists of all walks and media.

Have you guys thought for a moment that the emotional reaction to the film was because of their emotional attachment/concern for/engagement with the real world?

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2750816)

no, I've thought that their emotional reacation was their attachment to fantasy and their inability to move outside of the fantasy world. I might have emotional reactions to a movie, and that doesn't mean it's great filmmaking, but once I stand up out of my seat, the real world is kind of hard to miss.

People and their stupid grass is greener complex.

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Originally Posted by guccilvr (Post 2750826)

I also realize that those who respond this significantly are likely already depressives. So the film was likely just a trigger anyway. The thing about many depressive states is that a disconnect between the real and the imagined (i.e. thoughts) happens quite easily and persistently.

I don't think this film actually caused anyone to become depressed. I wouldn't give it that much credit.

We saw the film in 3-D and while it was entertaining and certainly visually new and exciting, I as well am a little confused why anyone would come away from it with the reactions cited in the article. After all, it was a movie. To think that any world, as beautiful and utopian as it may be, is not going to be fraught with both ugliness and mundanity on a regular basis is pretty naive and the only thing to say about that, without being too mean, would be 'time to grow up - even if it were possible you wouldn't be any happier in Nav'i with this kind of thinking.' Our world is full of beauty and adventure and opportunity for fulfillment - both material and spiritual, but no one is going to 'plug you into it'.

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Originally Posted by Lasereth (Post 2750764)

YES, IT IS SO ARROGANT TO HAVE AN UNCONTROLLABLE EMOTIONAL REACTION TO A MOVIE. Which is generally considered a sign of great film making. Definitely blood boil status here!!!

Mhmmm I'd agree with you if that's what I actually said. Of course people have emotional reactions to art...is that whats really being discussed here? People are getting depressed because their lives aren't as good as somebody else's fantasy. Wow what a surprise. This world we live in has so much to offer if we take the time and energy to reach out and grab it, this is especially true in the modern world we live in. Of course it would probably be insensitive to argue that people need to grow up and learn to appreciate what they have and make the most they can with it. A 40 hour work week and paying a few bills to provide food and shelter isn't that bad when you consider what the alternatives could be. In fact I find that quite ironic considering the sheer amount of work that would be involved in building such a life, most would probably get depressed again and start longing for their comfy jobs, vacation time, health insurance and retirement plan. (well you wouldn't need retirement as the life expectancy in such a world is probably about 22).

So yes I consider it quite arrogant and very sad that people living in a world with access to so many things most people will never have are getting depressed because life isn't as good as a fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth (Post 2750952)

[...] So yes I consider it quite arrogant and very sad that people living in a world with access to so many things most people will never have are getting depressed because life isn't as good as a fantasy.

By this, it would seem to me that you either haven't watched the movie or you don't understand why they're having this reaction to it.

That they have access to so many things is a part of the problem.

That and they're probably already depressives (yes, I reiterate).

This reminds me of a Henry Rollins quote on weed. Just replace "pot" and "plant" with "movie".

"You would think that pot had some kind of power; I mean come on, it's a plant, not a reason for living. Controlled by a plant, how hilarious. A plant! A fucking plant!"

It's a movie about a fantasy world. Key words: movie, fantasy. Movies and fantasies are both for entertainment purposes only. People depressed by Avatar obviously suffer from some sort of problem (other than depression) that prohibits them from seperating real and unreal. This is what the world has come to, huh? People being depressed by entertainment. Wow. Get a real reason to be depressed, then come back and see me.

Recommended remedy for Avatar induced depression: infinite dose of "get a life" and no less than one dose of "wake the fuck up".

Fantasy ? Those people feel they are missing something. Even if they don't know what exactly. They saw this movie and felt it. "Avatar" is based on real events :

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“ notwithstanding the French Commissioners took all the Pains possible to carry Home the French, that were Prisoners with the Five Nations, and they had full Liberty from the Indians, few of them could be persuaded to return. “Nor, he has to admit, is this merely a reflection on the quality of French colonial life, “for the English had as much Difficulty” in persuading their redeemed to come home, despite what Colden would claim were the obvious superiority of English ways:

No Arguments, no Intreaties, nor Tears of their Friends and Relations, could persuade many of them to leave their new Indian Friends and Acquaintance; several of them that were by the Caressings of their Relations persuaded to come Home, in a little Time grew tired of our Manner of living, and run away again to the Indians, and ended their Days with them. On the other Hand, Indian Children have been carefully educated among the English, cloathed and taught, yet, I think, there is not one Instance, that any of these, after they had Liberty to go among their own People, and were come to Age, would remain with the English, but returned to their own Nations, and became as fond of the Indian Manner of Life as those that knew nothing of a civilized Manner of Living. And, he concludes, what he says of this particular prisoner exchange “has been found true on many other Occasions.”

Benjamin Franklin was even more pointed: When an Indian child is raised in white civilization, he remarks, the civilizing somehow does not stick, and at the first opportunity he will go back to his red relations, from whence there is no hope whatever of redeeming him. But when white persons of either sex have been taken prisoners young by the Indians, and have lived a while among them, tho’ ransomed by their Friends, and treated with all imaginable tenderness toprevail with them to stay among the English, yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life, and the care and pains that are necessary to support it, and take the firstgood Opportunity of escaping again into the Woods, from whence there is no reclaiming them.

There was always the great woods, and the life to be lived within it was, Crevecoeur admits, “singularly captivating,” perhaps even superior to that so boasted of by the transplanted Europeans. For, as many knew to their rueful amazement, “thousands of Europeans are Indians, and we have no examples of even one of those aborigines having from choice become Europeans!”

Growing trough the asphalt: Prisoner Exchange

The Machine in our Heads--Glenn Parton
"This message is the catalyst for an intellectual awakening among the population, accompanied by the feeling that something old and familiar has been uncovered.

The power of this message to move an individual is due to the psychological fact that, although repression shuts down deep thinking, tribal ideas continue to push for entrance into consciousness."

I would bet this isn't something new, more just a news peg. I knew kids who wanted Harry Potter and magic to be so real they could taste it. And of course the franchise only encouraged it by selling products it proclaimed were real magical items. The only magic happened for JK Rowling as she went from being a broke teacher to having more money than Zurich.

If anything, I'm depressed at the sorry state of journalism when reporters get paid to report this crapola.

The only depression I suffered was in my wallet.., I think I spent like 75 bucks to see that show.

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Originally Posted by Reese (Post 2751149)

The only depression I suffered was in my wallet.., I think I spent like 75 bucks to see that show.

WHAT????!??!?!?

You must be including a bunch of extras because even the most expensive tickets here in Manhattan, NY where normal tickets are $12.50, IMAX 3D was $18 plus surcharge of $2.

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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq (Post 2751150)

WHAT????!??!?!?

You must be including a bunch of extras because even the most expensive tickets here in Manhattan, NY where normal tickets are $12.50, IMAX 3D was $18 plus surcharge of $2.

yeah food... cost more than the tickets.

See the post above - "Avatar" is not a "fantasy".

I am talking about civilized people going to the savages and never wanting to come back. Not even for their family. Community and freedom, that's what the natives had and people seek. Even if you seek money - you are in fact seeking the freedom money brings.

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Originally Posted by pai mei (Post 2751377)

Wrong. Avatar, is a fantasy. You can twist it into some sort of higher meaning and that's within your right when watching a piece of art, but in the end, the movie is for pure entertainment and is based solely in fantasy. Being depressed because there is not a world similar to the one in avatar is still pathetic. Being depressed because of the machine and the endless cycle is human and aware. There's a very distinct difference.

Tell that to these kids, "hey are you unhappy ? just go enlighten yourself !!" . Show them "Avatar" first. The if they feel bad tell them they are stupid.

ZORIAH - A PHOTOJOURNALIST AND WAR PHOTOGRAPHER'S BLOG: Guest Photographer/Photojournalist: G.M.B. Akash ? Child Labor

Their life is denied. Avatar is not a fantasy. See the true stories above. It's the same story, set in some future world. It's not an "impossible dream" like that crazy Christian religion "we will go to Heaven and be happy forever..."

Christian priest in Congo :

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"Shortly after crossing into the Congo we entered the forest, and for the first time I felt real fear... For the forest was evil. I felt it as soon as I saw it...
I made up my mind that I would make it my work to bring the heathen out of the forest, to give them sunlight, to show them how to live in God's open world..."

"It was wonderful to see the forest coming down on all sides. I could feel the power of Satan receding as every tree fell... He [Amboko] did not even like cutting down the forest, he said it will bring misfortune, unless we were going to use the ground for plantations... He said we should have at least some trees standing for shade, and for the protection of the soil...
We tried to make gardens and fill them with flowers, but they soon withered and died. The baked earth made admirable tennis courts, tough... And it was good to be able to relax and forget for a while that one was in Africa, surrounded by heathens. I had tried to make friends with them but it was impossible, and it always will be, at least for many years to come...
In the kitchens they used to give away food without my permission, to all their friends and relatives. When I chided them they asked me if I had not taught them to share whatever they had, that more will always be given to them by the Lord..."

Reverend Spence required that every employee on the mission be a Christian and he fined them if they failed to attend church services. He also tried to separate children from their parents, just as the Bureau of Indian Affairs often did in the United States. Finally he warned that if the natives chose to reject his message, "their blood is not on my hands but theirs, and on the hands of the Evil One who is in them all"

A society with no laws is no dream :

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"The Pawnee - They were a well-disciplined people, maintaining public order under many trying circumstances. And yet they had none of the power mechanisms that we consider essential to a well-ordered life. No orders were ever issued...Time after time I tried to find a case of orders given and there were none. Gradually I began to realize that democracy is a very personal thing which like charity, begins at home. Basically it means not being coerced and having no need to coerce anyone else. The Pawnee learned this way of living in the earliest beginning of his life. In the detailed events of every day as a child, he began his development as a disciplined and free man or as a women who felt her dignity and her independence to be inviolate"

---

"The Creeks are just honest, liberal and hospitable to strangers; considerate, loving and affectionate to their wives and relations; fond of their children; industrious, frugal, temperate and persevering; charitable and forbearing. I have been weeks and months among them and in their towns, and never observed the least sign of contention or wrangling: never saw an instance of and Indian beating his wife, or even reproving her in anger. In this case they stand as examples of reproof to the most civilized nations . . . for indeed their wives merit their esteem and the most gentle treatment, they being industrious, frugal, loving and affectionate . . .Their internal police and family economy. . .incontrovertibly place those people in an illustrious point of view: their liberality, intimacy and friendly intercourse with one another, without any restraint of ceremonious formality; as if they were even insensible of the use of necessity of associating the passions of affections of avarice, ambition or covetousness. . . How are we to account for their excellent policy in civil government; it cannot derive its influence from coercive laws, for they have no such artificial system."