genuinegirly

Baraka Guru's Warrior Women thread started me thinking. I especially appreciated Ring's addition of Rosa Parks

I was going to make this a ladies lounge thread, but I thought that perhaps the men of the TFP would appreciate being involved with this conversation.

Here goes:

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?

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I grew up utterly repulsed by Wonder Woman.

A scantily-clad hussie wondering around attempting to save the world as an excuse for men to oogle?!? What kind of a half-baked super hero is that? I wanted a real female hero. Princess Leia filled a bit of that void, but it still bothered me that the only representations of women in the comic world scene seemed to be skanky nasty hoes like Catwoman.


Until my friend pointed me in her direction, I had no idea there was a female super hero named Flare.

Apparently Herioc Publishing has a bunch of female super heroes among their ranks. All of them seem to be nothing more than eye candy for those who get turned on by a heroine. None of them seem to fill the powerful niche I'm trying to fill.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Zeraph

My favorite has always been Raven. A lot less scantily clad (still pretty sexy though).



I've actually never been clear if those are tights or bare legs...

KellyC

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
Sexy and deadly. I wouldn't want to mess with them.

How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
More please.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
Tons: Storm, Rogue, Invisible Woman, Hawkgirl, Spider Woman, Bat Girl, Jubilee, Jean Grey. I find them all sexy despite being fully clothes. Especially Storm and Rouge.

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
Like who? I didn't know they exist much less having an opinion about them.

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
Some ought to make women feel empowered. She-Hulk, for example, is the epitome of strength, sexy, and confidence. She wears revealing clothing because she's confident about herself

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?
Let's put it this way, I don't think they're any more "damaging" than how Superheroes are portrayed in comic books. e.g. they're all tall, handsome, ridiculously muscular. Even frickin' Professor Xavier has a well defined 6-pack abs and pecs and he doesn't do any thing physical. ( http://www.fantomcomics.com/xavier.jpg )

__________________
Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Xerxys

whoa whoa whoa there ... your getting very close to insulting a religion !!!!11

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
I think ... "wow, I'd do her" then continue doing what I was doing because:
a) I hardly pay for such films
b) They dressed like they did soleley to evoke that reaction.

How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
Nothing.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
Nope, nothing comes to mind.

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
Zilch.

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
Applicable? They don't even qualify as impressionable. We all know what fantasy is mainly because those of us that were ardent followers of the super hero world used to get the shit beat out of and stuffed in lockers. You see, there was no shortage of hapless kids to bully because we all were waiting for the day when a freak accident would turn us into electroman or something similar.

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?
Showbiz is showbiz is reel life. A "rotten apple ruins the lot" approach doesn't work when dealing with people.

Willravel

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
That depends greatly on which female superhero I see. There are of course cliche'd female superheroes out there, but, as with male superheroes, occasionally a good writer will create or come across a character that's perfect for telling something gripping, entertaining, and provocative. When done right, the super heroine is quite a fucking thing.

How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
Generally? Horribly. Your average female superhero is shallow and cliche. The problem is that writers get hung up on "this girl needs to kick ass, like a man!" instead of "this character has to be real and believable first and super-powered second". It's a shame because there are so many female superheroes out there in the world of literature and entertainment that could be great if taken seriously.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
Of course, but should that really be important? It's not like Wolverine or Superman wear modest costumes. Go to a comic shop and grab the first comic you see and I'll bet you $5 and a pancake that the comic is full of grown, muscular men wearing tights. It's not necessarily done for sexual exploitation, though, it's done for the same reason Michelangelo's David doesn't have a beer belly: humans understand beauty and the presence of human beauty isn't necessarily sexual or exploitive by nature.

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
Dirth?

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
Depends on which one. Some are clearly exploitive and some are incredibly progressive and respectful. Some even push the boundaries. There's not one classification of super heroine.

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?
As above, some are good and some are bad. There's more than just Wonder Woman out there. Starbuck is a good example of a well thought-out character with both strengths and weaknesses that ultimately does justice to the idea of what a superhero woman can be.

Starbuck, what do you think? ...Starbuck? Shit, where'd she go? Damn it, she was standing right there!

Baraka_Guru

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
Hawt!

How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
A side of me says hawt!

Another side of me is reminded of Laura Mulvey's essay "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema," which discusses the concept of the Male Gaze. In summary, women in films are typically objects targeted by the camera (and thus the gaze) and it's assumed that heterosexual men are the default target audience for most films. This isn't as much the case as it was back when the article was first published, but the concept works similarly with comics. Generally, women are placed as objects of desire more so than agents of change or control. Often these women are supporters (or antagonists) of male characters' dilemmas. More recently, this has shifted a bit. Now a high proportion of leads are played by women. And many women's roles have been changed to reflect the advances we've had in gender equality. But what remains...is the Male Gaze. Women are still overtly sexual objects in film (and comics). And some stereotypes and prejudices will never die.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
I'm not enough of a comic buff. So no. Sorry. But, as Willravel mentioned, the men mostly like to show their goods as well.

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
People like clear gender differences. Though I'm sure there is a market for it, as niche as that might be. I wouldn't mind seeing an Androgynous Adrian! comic.

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
They are goldmines for topics of research. If I were a feminist academic, I'd love to write about action/adventure films and comics.

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?
Overall? Bad. Unachievable proportions of mind, body, and abilities. But the perception of men is also bad. Violence is the main option for solving life's problems, emotions are a sign of weakness, and all that rot. This isn't universal among comics, to be sure, but I admit I'm generalizing. As I said, I'm not a comic buff.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

telekinetic

I find this article from June to be on-topic:
Newsarama.com : The Supergirl Shorts Story: Talking to Jamal Igle

Basically, earlier this year they added shorts to the Supergirl costume, rather than just the skirt-and-panties getup she's been wearing since her creation, which, combined with flying, results in frequent upskirt fanservice. Nerd rage ensued.

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twisted no more

Xerxys

Zeraph

Personally I think (for both men and women) there's something powerful in being scantily clad. I mean, look at Conan and the likes. Its actually not a double standard for once. There's also several historic examples of berzerker/barbarian types going into battles naked to scare their enemies. I'd like to see all super heroes running around in nothing but capes

telekinetic

Bah, who needs capes?

__________________
twisted no more

Zeraph

xactly. FEAR the 50foot blue PENIS! RAWR

If I was a demigod I'd walk around naked too and make people stare at my huge glowing wang.

RetroGunslinger

I believe this video by Linkara should adequately explain why Wonder Woman, despite sometimes being a sexist character, is actually one of the more respectable DC heroines.

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

Fujicakes

What do you think when you see a female super hero?
Nothing.

How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?
Depends on the story; not all are portrayed the same.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?
KellyC mentioned many good ones. I'd add Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy as well, but they're villains so

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?
Never really thought of it to be honest. It'd be interesting to see a comic of one.

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?
Depends. Some feminists define their own definition of "feminist" differently from others.

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?
Good and bad. Depends on the character. Though I'm glad they moved on from the superheroine-must-wear-a-skirt thing.

And for genuinegirly: we discussed this before, so it's sort of a cut and paste thing, but I'll post it here regardless. I have one complaint, and of course, you can take it or leave it as you wish. I wouldn't consider Catwoman to be "skanky, nasty hoe". Nor is she a hero. She is considered more of an antihero. I'm not a big comic book buff or anything, but from what my viewings and readings of her have given me, though she may exude sexuality, she doesn't use sex to get what she wants, which would appropriately label her as skanky. She isn't evil, but she does things her way to get what she wants, as opposed to Batman who believes in upholding the law. She's also been portrayed as mildly insane so it explains some of her motives. She is a big animal lover as well, and that's what she usually fights for. And throughout history, she is one of the most fully-clothed female characters; that Halle Berry movie had nothing to do with the original Catwoman.

Of course, if I'm wrong in any way, please feel free to correct me, or add on to the statement.

KellyC also mentioned very good examples of fully clothed superheroines. Rogue happens to be one of my favorite X-Men female characters. Sure in the beginning (and throughout many times I'm sure) many readers are taken with the fact that these women are attractive, but I think that what keeps them hooked is the fact that you can relate to them, just like with any other superhero. The best ones have flaws, and the reader wants to see whether they overcome them, or at least how they deal with them.

Sorry for the long post btw.

Jetée

I agree.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

genuinegirly

Long posts are welcome and appreciated here, fujicakes. It's pretty much what TFP is based on. Thanks for taking the time to put me in my place about catwoman.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

highthief

What do you think when you see a female super hero?

Depends on who it is. There is no single reaction.


How do you feel about the way these women are portrayed?

I'm OK with whatever the portrayal. It's fiction. If it's well written and illustrated, I'm happy with superheroines who are intelligent, original and clever characters - I'm also OK with those who are little more than a sexy sidekick.

Do you have any examples of comic book superheroines that don't wear revealing clothing?

Oracle. But I agree with previous posters - virtually all male characters wear skin tight clothing to show off their bodies as well, so it's not a big deal for me.

How do you feel about the apparent dirth of androgenous and hermaphroditic superheroes?

I don't really feel anything.

How applicable are these superheroines to the feminist movement?

No idea, I'm afraid.

Overall, would you say that they are a good or a bad thing for the world's perception of women?

My oldest girl, who is 5, loves watching the Justice League on DVD. She thinks Hawkgirl, Supergirl and Wonder Woman are great (along with Batman, Green Lantern and J'onn J'onzz). That's good enough for me.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.