Can you imagine if Fox started X-Files, Simpsons or Star Trek TNG in this atmosphere?

Perhaps equally unreliable, but a far less alarmist view of the situation: Dollhouse Robbery? The Truth Behind the "Missing" Episode - Today's News: Our Take | TVGuide.com

Actually, Dollhouse has not been canceled. From your link:

Jeez, I guess they jumped the gun.

We'll have to wait for confirmation from Fox.

I hope they give this show it's chance. I think it has real potential.

From what I understand, Fox ordered 13 episodes from Whedon. Whedon made 14 episodes. Fox didn't like the Pilot so they didn't show it. That makes 12 episodes that Fox owns. Whedon or whoever still owns the 14th episode un-aired stand-alone episode. I agree, It's a little confusing.


Anyway, The show's getting so much better. Tonight's episode was my favorite. They were right about the 5th episode being the beginning of the good stuff. If it'd been the first or second episode, the show would be much higher on ratings methinks.

This last episode was so good, it can only mean that Fox is going to cancel Dollhouse. Because the last time a Whedon show approached this level of good, it was summarily canned.

Dear lord I hope Fox doesn't screw this one up...

S&M Barbie FTW. That alone is enough to save the series.

Uh, ok, wow. Took them long enough to get an episode this freaking good on the air. Good dialogue, well executed plot twists, dynamic storyline development and good acting out of those who needed to do it. Let's hope a lot of people watched it.

Battlestar started with the episodes "33" and "Water", which still stand out as some of the best episodes. Why can't other series start out with their strongest stuff? We don't need 10 episodes of plot and character development to be entertained.

S&M Barbie - DAMN!

wow... it was a very good episode. Count me as impressed by the herrings.

Whoa. Did anybody else see tonight's ep, Briar Rose? Holy crap, that was one well-done ep. I really truly cannot wait until next week's season finale.

OK, Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't Alan Tudyk playing a techy guy in like the 5th or 6th episode. I'm pretty sure Ballard had found the camera in his apartment and took it to him to find out if he could trace the signal. Now, is that the same character that's growing the pot in his apartment in the Briar Rose episode? If not, Why doesn't Ballard recognize him?

Maybe Ballard is one of Alpha's dolls... hmm ok nevermind that, I'm just wondering if that was Alan Tudyk playin the techy guy in the midseason episode because he's not credited for the part.

damn Hulu for not having the first half of the season!

Isn't that like saying "I read Playboy for the articles"?

Watching her dance in the little white dress, in the first episode, hooked me completely. Luckily the storyline continued in a good direction, as does all of Joss's projects.

I think it's incredbily sexy that she's a completely different person in each episode, wearing a different and hot outfit each time. The little white dress, the thigh high socks and heels, S & M Barbie, and the love scene in 'Needs' - are some of my favorites.

(PS: If you happen to take a vid cap of her dancing in the white dress, you can see her bare ass.) :surprised:

The "electronics expert" in the afore mentioned episode "Needs" had the character name of "Jimmy" played by Skylar Stone.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/382...dg4mv5bml5.jpg


They are fairly similar looking.

now that was an exciting episode!!!!

ah dang, thanks. I don't know how I'd confuse them, They don't look THAT similar :)

OMG that was awesome. I loved that Joss gave us Spoiler: the Alan Tudyk that we know and love from Firefly and then (even with the spoiler above) gave us a kick ass not funny-guy Alan.

did anyone catch... Spoiler: that Amy Acker is a doll??? Whiskey? that's why her face was slashed and she wasn't killed. Think of the fact that he kept asking her all those questions too.

Possible good news: The Hollywood Reporter says Dollhouse is officially getting a second season. I'm very, very hopeful.

I like this show, Topher is neat, fun lil "oops" or intended?
http://imagenest.com/uploads/fa23ff55.png

that m-audio device in the background is the xponent, I recently picked one up. :) I guess it makes sense, since he's got all sorts of electronic equipment in there, saw a keyboard behind the couch he got tased on, on one episode. ;D

Oh shit, it's Shauk!

wow, good news I think. Let's see what Joss does with a gift like that.

Picked this up for another season and axed Sarah Connor Chronicles. Oh Fox...oh...Fox.

Also, they're putting it in EXACTLY THE SAME TIMESLOT and leading it in with two sitcoms. Anyone want to make bets about its ratings?

Fox carries a lot of blame, but the first episode was pretty weak compared to where the series went. The second half of the season was outstanding. Even with Firefly and Buffy, the series openers (and I do mean the aired-out-of-order pilot for Firefly) were relatively weak compared to later episodes.

Joss would do well to start with a bang for Dollhouse season 2. Something huge.

I'm not precisely sure what you were responding to in my post, will, but I agree absolutely that Fox does not carry all the blame for Dollhouse's less than outstanding ratings. Series openings have not been Joss's strong point, but second seasons sure have been, so let's hope he follows Buffy/Angel suit with Dollhouse.

I was mostly lamenting the fact that I had fairly "meh" feelings about a Dollhouse renewal and desperately wanted more TSCC and the reverse happened. Also it seems just awful to renew a struggling show and then set it up with an even worse lead in than before in exactly the same time slot. It seems like it would've been a much better pairing with Lie to Me or maybe Fringe in terms of audience and then tossed some reality or light nonsense with their sitcoms.

I was responding to the time slot thing, which I totally agree with. I just felt like adding on the pilot thing because it occurred to me when I was thinking back on why Firefly and Dollhouse had such low ratings. I liked the Dollhouse pilot a lot, but now that I've seen what the show is capable of I can see that they could have done a lot more.

I also wanted more SCC. I was really looking forward to seeing how they fix what happened in what appears to be the series finale. Everything was left up in the air.

Yeah, I just got back from vacation and the Dollhouse renewal is quite the delightful return gift. It appears that Fox will still be fucking around with it (a significant budget cut is supposedly in the works, and the show will no longer be "extended" with fewer-than-average commercial breaks), but I don't think those will be too bad. I don't really have a problem with the show going back to a 42-minute schedule (I don't really think the extra six minutes necessarily added a tremendous amount) and if Joss says he can do it cheaper, than great. After all, season 5 of Angel was done on the cheap (notice how rarely they left the W&H offices) but still kicked ass, and the mythical 13th episode of Dollhouse was apparently a successful experiment in thrift.

This explains it all.

We owe it all to archeology nerds. Sweet.

NOT funny......

(giggles, kinda)

An excellent theory, morpheus. I posit another:

http://hijinksensue.com/comics/2009-...fis-choice.jpg

While that conveys some of the feeling, it was actually quite a bit less random than that. Fox (and its parent companies) owns the entire production line of Dollhouse so they get whatever money it does make. WB owns part of the production line on Terminator, so Fox isn't taking the whole cut. ALSO, TSCC had two seasons to develop story and audience and (for a lot of reasons) failed to do so. ALSO, Dollhouse presented Fox with a plan for making equal quality episodes for less money and TSCC looked like it was only going to get more expensive. Ah well, I still weep for its loss.

It still seems like a dumbass thing to do. Escpecially with a new Terminator movie coming out. So part of something is better than all of nothing.

My understanding is that they were going to cancel TSCC after its first season, but WB wanted it to stay on the air leading up to the release of the movie, so they basically offered Fox a lot of money to keep it for one extra year. After Fox stopped getting that sweetheart deal (i.e., a few weeks ago) they went ahead and canceled it. Doesn't mean they don't suck, I'm just saying that this is why we even had a second season.

Has anyone seen Dollhouse Ep 13: Epitaph One??????

HOLY COW!!! they really should have released that as part of the series. It really shoves alot into the 1 hour...

Why didn't they? It was already made, after all. Had they shown the pilot and Epitaph, I'd be willing to bet they'd have had higher ratings.

I just watched the first episode ... this thing totally rocks ...

I have, however, not read anything in this thread because I cannot avoid spoiler tags .. I get a twitch in my eye when I try.

There may come a time when I decide to suffer through Dushku's acting to watch this show; the time hasn't come yet.

Holy cow I just saw Epitaph One. Fox might just be the worst people on earth. Who could see Epitaph One and decide it shouldn't be aired? What, a rerun of Til Death or something is better?

I'm dying to know how the writers are going to make the rest of the series fit into the future they established here.

...also, I think that this goes to show how necessity is the mother of all invention. Fox required a 13th episode to give to overseas broadcasters and wanted to do clip show. But Joss said no and came up with this instead. It apparently cost half of what a normal ep costs, as it takes place almost entirely on the Dollhouse set, and by using the "future" actors they saved time because the regular cast was busy filming other episodes.

And as a result of Fox's corporate demand, we get a mindfuck of an episode that's inventive and clever and awesome (Reed Diamond!) and ironically smashes to smithereens the boring procedural format Fox tried so hard to straitjacket the show with. Cool.

Dollhouse is back!
Season 2, Episode 1 now on Hulu:
Watching it now... a good "re-primer" so far. Some cheesy Whedon style drama, and some good humor. Great so far ;)

...and didn't know a 13th episode existed..?! Anyone have a link or a suggestion on where to watch that? Thanks!

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

guuuuh... I hate the music in this show, though. there are so many worse shows with much better music. why not this show?

I was very unimpressed with the first episode of this season. Maybe it's because I just finished up all the Buffy episodes Hulu had to offer and dollhouse just doesn't compare. I really think the budget cuts hurt more than Whedon led on. We'll see though.

god damn... they canceled it again.

Ugh. I don't want to talk about it.

Good call, it deserves to be put out of its misery.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

The end of Season 1 was so good. And then all that promise disappeared to more crap. This show has not been up to anyone's standards. Hopefully some of the real finds to come out of this show have other, better opportunities.

In the end, I couldn't stand Dushku's acting. I had to stop watching, just like the rest of the world.

The entertainment world can always use less Joss Whedon trash.

/me waits for Cinna to blast me to hell

And a hell of a lot more of his gems. Bring back Firefly and Wonderfalls!

uugh. firefly.

Amen. I'm sure Dushku is a very nice person, but it physically PAINS me to watch her "act". I tried to watch the pilot of Dollhouse, and somehow made it to the first commercial break before I couldn't stand any more. Practically ANY other actress might have gotten me through at least one episode.

The best of television today seems to be a good premise that's just not executed well (Heroes, Lost, Terminator, Dollhouse, Flashforward, Warehouse 13, SG:U, and Fringe). Dollhouse had maybe 2 or 3 episodes that were getting near what the show should have been, but the first episode aired (thanks a lot, Fox) sucked balls and there have been a lot of unimportant, boring stand-alones.

Today's PVP:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1053/pvp20091112.png

And of course the second the series gets cancelled, we're back to interesting and entertaining episodes again.

That's kind of what I was thinking. The two episodes that aired on Dec. 4th were actually pretty good.

my god those last two episodes are exactly the questions that were being asked in the beginning of the series. this is really just a shame that it was canceled.

The show gets canceled, and then: bam! 4 great, epic episodes in a row.

Could you imagine V or Flash Forward or CSI or some other mediocre drama that gets 5 seasons ever producing a single episode even half as good as each of the last four Dollhouse eps?

Sigh.

Seriously,It's very depressing that the show actually shows what it can be only when it gets canceled. They need to do more with the Sierra character. Maybe Joss will use her in his next series. :)

Man, The Hyperion Hotel has gone through some remodeling since Angel left it. :P

those episodes were in the can before they were canceled. they were just waiting for a re-order of 13 more episodes.

Well, now that the show is over, can we all agree that

A) This is the most high-concept show ever aired on network television, and

B) This is the bleakest show ever aired on network television?

Maybe I'm forgetting some? In retrospect, I understand why Dollhouse never made on network TV. A universe that can't handle Conan on the Tonight Show most definitely cannot handle Dollhouse on another major network. This show really, really needed to be on cable or a premium channel.

RIP, Dollhouse, you were better than 99% of what's shown on TV.

I'm not sure it's the most high concept show ever aired on network TV, but it's pretty damn well up there, and it is certainly amongst the bleakest as well, but fuck what a great last episode.

I can only imagine what would've happened to Dollhouse if it had come out of the gate with episodes of the caliber that it ended with. Dollhouse had a LOT of mediocre episodes along the way, but when it clicked, it did so on all cylinders. The second half of season 2 (basically starting with the double episodes in December) was some of the best television I've ever seen. Amazing characters, amazing writing, amazing acting. Amongst a variety of great performances, I really hope Fran Kranz and Enver Gjokaj, in particular, get more work, because holy crap do they deserve it.

Despite what I said earlier in this thread, I'm sad that it's over, but it went out with style, and given the long, slow, horrible deaths many great tv shows have died, there's something to be said for that.

Yeah the scene with Echo freaking out about Paul when priya was whining was pretty touching. :(

It was kind of a metaphor for the show imo. The viewers didn't show enough love and now it's gone.

Well, to be fair, the show didn't give viewers a lot of reason to love it for a good long time. 6 episodes of "assignment of the week" episodic crap was not the way to get a lot of viewers interested and keeping watching. As I said above, if Dollhouse had come out with episodes that were similar to the second halves of either season 1 (when the Alpha storyline started rocking) or season 2 (when it was mindblowingly awesome across the board), I think it would have fared much better.

A show does not deserve viewers simply because it gets good. It has to earn viewers. Those of us who stuck with a lame show were rewarded with it becoming an amazing show, but it got plenty of love which it didn't initially reward. Dollhouse was not Firefly, but it ended with as great and powerful a finale as I could've asked. I can only hope Lost manages to do the same.

Can someone give me a broad spoiler as to how it ended? Did Echo break free and bring down the organization? Or did she die or lose her true self?

Who else died?

The show definitely redeemed itself. I really want to see Epitaph One because I felt a little lost watching the series finale. Still, Excellent ending. RIP Dollhouse.

I laughed when the opened as there was only a little bit showing the Epitaph One part, I laughed because I found it funny that regular watchers who knew NOTHING about the DVD and the final season 1 episode would somehow understand just what happened and who the little girl was.

as far as an ending it ended much better than Terminator and Joss' own Angel.

I just watched the series finale of Angel the other day.. I couldn't believe it had such a cliffhanger ending.

I know i have seen the end of Angel but I cant remember what it was. I know the end of the Terminator series was crap. I really wish they had brought that one back or sold it to another network.

I felt this series started improving when they concentrated on taking down the Rossum corporation. However, the ending was a bit cheesy since it ended so nicely, with Topher building a device that saved the world while sacrificing himself, Ballard imprinted in Echo's head and everyone turning normal.

Echo and crew destroyed part of the Dollhouse corporation, but the world still went into chaos ten years later. Topher went completely insane, but was capable of building a device that saved the human race, but was killed in the process. Ballard was killed in action while trying to calm someone who was shot in the legs.

Angel season 1 was dull, but started improving half way through season 2. And the series finale definitely ended in a cliffhanger, but I assumed Angel/Spike/Gunn were killed fighting the horde of gigantic monsters running in their direction. However, I haven't read the Spike or Angel comic book, so I am assuming they are still alive.