Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

onodrim · 10-04-2007, 02:06 PM

I've been looking forward to this movie for quite some time. For one thing, Burton is an excellent film maker and I've enjoyed everything of his I've seen. Also, Sweeney Todd is an amazing piece of music which I really enjoy. I just saw the trailer today, and I'm torn. On one hand, as a film it looks incredible, very stylistic and dark. However, from the trailer it doesn't seem like it's doing the music justice. It appears that most of it may be replaced by dialogue, and what is sung is not in the operatic tradition. I think my overall impression is still positive and I'm looking forward to it. Any other Burton/Sondheim fans have any thoughts?

*EDIT* Just found this good article and thought it should be added to the discussion.

SecretMethod70 · 10-04-2007, 02:34 PM

Well....

It'd be tough to do Sondheim's Sweeney Todd total justice considering it's one of the greatest productions of the past 100 years

The trailer looks good. If there's any actor right now who is appropriate for the character of Sweeney Todd, it's Johnny Depp. And Tim Burton's style fits perfectly. I have to wonder, though, why they didn't just make a movie based on the story, rather than trying to make a movie musical out of a rather difficult operetta. The story of Sweeney Todd was around before Sondheim's version, and there have been plenty of straight acting versions. It seems to me that trying to tackle Sondheim, and using mostly people who aren't amazing singers, was an unnecessary risk.

Still, the little music that was included in the trailer doesn't look too far off base. It's a much more...musical theatre-y interpretation, but that part is only partially sung anyway. I have to wonder why they avoided showing any other music though. Is it that they just haven't finished doing the post-processing on the voices yet? (Because, my god, they're going to need it if they're trying to stay even remotely close to the actual music) Or is it because it didn't turn out well enough to be put in the trailer?

Anyway, it looks good. The trailer has managed to make me anticipate the film more, despite my continued reservations about the music, so that's good.

EDIT: This is the song they showed part of in the trailer (the part from the trailer is about halfway through)...

EDIT 2: The article that was added touches on yet another point that perplexes me. Why take such a huge risk by basing it off of the Sondheim version of the story when, even if executed perfectly (which is highly unlikely), the payoff would be less than if that risk hadn't been taken. Watching the trailer, it's obvious that the movie would be fantastic if it were done without the music. Adding the music, which is rather difficult when done properly, only complicates matters.

One thing it does have going for it, though, is that the article was wrong about surprising people with song and dance. Sweeney Todd is anything but a song and dance show, and that's why I love it so much. It's dark, sadistic, and not particularly cheerful at all. Of course, that's also a strike against it, because those kinds of shows aren't particularly successful, whatever medium they're in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

After nineteen previews, the Broadway production, directed by Hal Prince and choreographed by Larry Fuller, opened on March 1, 1979 at the Uris Theatre. Despite initial poor audience reaction -- on opening night, half the audience is said to have left in disgust at intermission -- the show ran for 557 performances, closing on June 29, 1980.

Redlemon · 10-05-2007, 05:48 AM

I saw the touring company of Sweeney in Boston when I was in elementary school, and it made a huge impact on me. I see very few movies, and most of what I do see are Pixar or similar. I haven't seen anything with Depp in it, so I don't know what he is capable of.

I reacted to the announcement of this production the same way I reacted to the Lord of the Rings - can it really be done? LotR was successful. The trailer for Sweeney seems a little too dark compared to the stage version - they didn't draw any of the humor forward. But, trailers are short.

I look forward to your reviews of this when it comes out; the newspaper reviews won't be useful to me. I want to hear what theatre lovers think, and I trust both of you.

mrklixx · 10-05-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onodrim

For one thing, Burton is an excellent film maker and I've enjoyed everything of his I've seen.

I don't know about that. At least to me, all of his remakes or "re-imaginings", have fallen flat at best, or were complete messes at worst.

Sleepy Hollow - meh
Planet of The Apes - double meh
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - Triple meh

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

If there's any actor right now who is appropriate for the character of Sweeney Todd, it's Johnny Depp. And Tim Burton's style fits perfectly.

Originally, I thought the same thing about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, that Burton and Depp were a home run choice, but it turned out to be all kinds of wrong.

SecretMethod70 · 10-05-2007, 09:07 AM

Agreed on all points mrklixx. Incidentally, neither onodrim nor I have seen the movies you mention as bad (actually, she may have seen Sleepy Hollow - I didn't know her when that one came out)

The reason for that, though, is that the trailers made it readily apparent they were going to be bad. I don't get turned off from Sweeney Todd's trailer the way I was turned off from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory's trailer.

redlemon: I don't actually mind how dark the movie seems from the trailer, but that could be because I really enjoy the Sweeney Todd story itself, even without Sondheim. (But Sondheim sure does have an AWESOME take on it.) If Burton wants to take the humor from Sondheim and make it a little more psychotic, I don't mind that much - it's not all that different from what a different stage director can do to the production. Butchering the excellent score, on the other hand, is something I'm worried about.

Derwood · 10-05-2007, 09:08 AM

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was so full of FAIL. It had zero charm

Reese · 10-06-2007, 03:52 AM

Tim Burton has great style. I'm definitely looking forward to Sweeny Todd even though I've not seen the stage play.

Johnny Depp is a great actor. The characters he portrays are usually better than the movie they're in..

Anxst · 10-06-2007, 04:46 AM

I love the stage musical, and with a few reservations I am also looking forward to this.

As long as the music isn't horrible, I think it's going to be well done. Burton will certainly bring forward the humor...that sort of thing just doesn't come across well in a 30 second trailer. I like the overall tone that has been set, it's just the music that worries me.

Only time will tell...

Edit: I was speaking to someone on another message board who works in unrelated things at the same studio the sound recording for this is happening/happened in. Rumor from him says there's so little singing in the trailer because they're still mixing the songs for the master film copy.

bhamv · 10-07-2007, 03:28 AM

I saw the stage musical and had mixed feelings about it. I felt it was a great story, and would've worked great as a novel or as a straight-out play. But I didn't like the music very much. Part of this might be something of a bias against Sondheim's work, for some reason I hate everything by Sondheim I've ever seen. (Into the Woods, Passion, Sweeny Todd, heck I even dislike West Side Story)

I agree that the overall dark tone of the story suits Burton's style, so I think that's one plus for this movie. But honestly I'd prefer if he didn't go for the musical.

Charlatan · 10-07-2007, 03:49 AM

Burton has great style but the majority of his films fall apart in the third act.

I have found him to a great disappointment, time and again.

Val_1 · 10-08-2007, 09:19 AM

I love the look of the trailer, and I think Burton's style will work great for the dark story. However, I don't know how strong a singer Johnny Depp is, and that is the biggest downfall of movie versions of musicals: casting stars instead of casting actual musical theater actors. Will it be a full out musical? Or will they remove some/all of the music?

SecretMethod70 · 10-08-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Val_1

I love the look of the trailer, and I think Burton's style will work great for the dark story. However, I don't know how strong a singer Johnny Depp is, and that is the biggest downfall of movie versions of musicals: casting stars instead of casting actual musical theater actors. Will it be a full out musical? Or will they remove some/all of the music?

The details, as far as I can tell, are sketchy, but I get the impression they're going to be using a lot of the music. Then again, I also heard that they had to turn Sacha Baron Cohen's character's song into a spoken part because he was so bad at singing it. It's really disappointing, because Sondheim's Sweeney Todd isn't even a musical - it's an operetta, and a rather difficult one. Making a movie of it with performers who, at best, are good musical theatre singers is questionable. Still, I'm reserving judgment because I think the trailer looks good, and that Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are very capable in all other aspects of the roles.

ShaniFaye · 10-08-2007, 12:22 PM

heaven help me....Johnny Depp and Alan Rickman in the same movie *sigh*

SecretMethod70 · 10-08-2007, 12:40 PM

Now with embedded-trailer-y goodness!

click for trailer - you may need to install a DivX plugin, but it's worth it for the quality :) Double click on the video to make it fullscreen click to show

dreadlock · 10-27-2007, 08:29 PM

I just recently found out this is going to be a musical. That's going to be...interesting.

Redlemon · 12-05-2007, 12:46 PM

New 2:30 "featurette":

I started my analysis of it, then read the bit posted here, so I'll just copy what they said - they are better writers than I.

Quote:

A new Sweeney Todd making-of featurette has hit the internet, and any fan of either Johnny Depp or Tim Burton's well advised to check the footage out; of course, as with any piece of marketing making-of material, what the piece doesn't say is almost as interesting as what it does. One of the more notable bits in the featurette is how it almost seems to be bracing audiences for how violent the movie's going to be; this is, after all, a movie about a mass-murderer. Alan Rickman notes with a jovial grin that "There'll be loads of blood spraying all over the place, so if that's your thing, you're going to have plenty of it. ..." So, then, squeamish moviegoers: You can't say you haven't been warned.

Another sequence in the piece offers an in-depth look at the title character's implements of death, the straight razors he used to wield bloodlessly as a barber. After several close-up shots of the wicked-looking blades, Burton notes of Sweeney's tools that "The razors are just an extension of him, really." We then cut to Depp, in character, holding a razor aloft and exclaiming "My arm is complete again. ..." Depp, Burton and a lead character with a sharp object at the end of his wrist; I guess someone thought that it might be wise to evoke the visuals (if not the gentler spirit) of Edward Scissorhands.

But with all the warnings of bloodshed and the invocation of past collaboration in the spot, it's still notable that the piece doesn't mention the film's musical nature, and only includes a brief section of a musical number -- and even that's more spoken than sung by Depp. I guess the question is: Are modern audiences more afraid of musical numbers than bloodshed? And is DreamWorks actively trying to hide Sweeney Todd's Broadway origins?

I still don't know if I'm going to want to see this or not. I'll probably wait until SM70 or Ono gives their review.

Oh, the official site http://www.sweeneytoddmovie.com has audio samples. "My Friends" is interesting; much more delicate that it's been done elsewhere. A bit of "Pretty Women" as well... sounds like he never gets a real angry edge. Nope, not even "No Place Like London".

*Nikki* · 12-05-2007, 01:06 PM

I like Burton and the previously mentioned films that others thought weren't so good. I can't wait to see this one. Not every thing needs to be torn apart into a million pieces. Just enjoy and don't over analyze.

SecretMethod70 · 12-05-2007, 02:18 PM

Based on what I've been seeing, I'm pretty confident I'm going to enjoy it. For one thing, Stephen Sondheim was involved with the casting, so I think it's fair to trust that the music won't be butchered. That said, he approved Johnny Depp without even hearing him sing because, to Sondheim, it's more important that he can act the part well than sing it perfectly, and he had full confidence in Depp's abilities to act the role.

There have been 9 clips from the movie put on the internet and, for the most part, I've enjoyed them all. (If you don't know the show, I wouldn't suggest watching these as they contain what might be considered spoilers.)

Sweeney Todd Now:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=191

My Friends:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=192

You Gandered at My Ward:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=193

The Contest:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=194

How Long Until Pirelli Gets Back:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=195

Epiphany:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=196

Little Priest:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=197

Not While I'm Around:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=199

Pamper You:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...ectlink&id=198

There are really only a couple things I have to say about the clips. First is that the singing fits the show pretty well for the most part - the only one that stands out to me is "My Friends." And, really, that's more to do with my past experiences with the show, being used to it sung as an operetta. Hearing Depp's voice sound so...smooth...is unusual for me. That said, he doesn't sing the other things I've heard so smoothly, so it could very well be a character choice as well, considering "My Friends" is, in a way, a love song.

I'm not really sure why they chose to make Toby so young, but I'll have to wait and see how that plays out. Spoiler: If nothing else, it certainly makes it even more tragic for him to go crazy at the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I like Burton and the previously mentioned films that others thought weren't so good. I can't wait to see this one. Not every thing needs to be torn apart into a million pieces. Just enjoy and don't over analyze.

Well, it's not really a desire to tear everything apart into little pieces, it's just that the stage production is such a classic, people are worried about whether or not the movie will be a good adaptation. The story of Sweeney Todd can be done with or without Sondheim's music (it's a relatively old tale), but since they chose to base this movie on Sondheim's stage production, fans of it are going to worry about the musical integrity. It's hard not to: most people I know who are fans of Sweeney Todd consider it among their favorite shows, and with good reason. Nonetheless, the more I see the more confident I am that the movie will be a good adaptation. At this point, my main questions are: Does Toby work as a child as opposed to a "slow" teenager/young adult? We now know that the actors can sing well enough on their own, but what about singing together at the same time? What about dissonant moments? Will those more difficult moments even remain in the movie? I can see them cutting much of the music out of the ending, but I think it'd be a tragic mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Oh, the official site http://www.sweeneytoddmovie.com has audio samples. "My Friends" is interesting; much more delicate that it's been done elsewhere. A bit of "Pretty Women" as well... sounds like he never gets a real angry edge. Nope, not even "No Place Like London".

Hadn't seen this yet. I'd guess that he gets more of an edge later in No Place Like London (the site only played a short clip for me). The instrumentation on the main page sounds excellent and hopefully it'll make up for the removal of The Ballad of Sweeney Todd.

jewels · 12-05-2007, 05:20 PM

I'm so looking forward to it. Three of my favorite actors, a wonderful director, and a fabulous story.

I can see everyone's points of concern; however, I choose not to compare or go in with expectations based on the book or another film. Why compare?

I'll walk into the theater looking forward to seeing those actors together in a brand new film. Since Burton is a film artist, I'm more than willing to experience his interpretation.

Frosstbyte · 12-05-2007, 06:39 PM

Those clips don't make me a believer in the choice to make it a musical. They're all great actors but they're not coming close to doing the music justice. I'll se it anyway and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I think it would've been better to do a straight show and use the musical's music in the background for atmosphere.

Redlemon · 12-06-2007, 06:24 AM

Thanks for the clips, SM70. I am feeling a bit better about it all. It won't be the stage version, but I hope I can appreciate it for what it will be.

"Rated R: Graphic Bloody Violence". They are really pushing the blood on this one, aren't they?

Also, more audio clips available at

Amazon.com: Sweeney Todd The Demon Barber Of Fleet Street Deluxe - Complete Edition: Music: Original Score

.

Xazy · 12-06-2007, 06:57 AM

Thank you for the preview. I saw the Broadway show when it came back on, I think a year ago. Cast was incredible on the Broadway show, they all played the instruments, the stage work was supposedly completely different then the original. Music and everything was just breathtaking. I am a big Tim Burton, fan but got to agree with Mrklixx, and some of the others, that not all of his work was all that. And Charlie and the choclate factory, OUCH that sucked big time.

I may have to wait to read a review or two before I can commit to seeing it at the movies versus on dvd.

SecretMethod70 · 12-06-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Thanks for the clips, SM70. I am feeling a bit better about it all. It won't be the stage version, but I hope I can appreciate it for what it will be.

"Rated R: Graphic Bloody Violence". They are really pushing the blood on this one, aren't they?

Also, more audio clips available at Amazon.com: Sweeney Todd The Demon Barber Of Fleet Street Deluxe - Complete Edition: Music: Original Score.

I was telling onodrim the other day, I think it'll take more than one viewing for fans of the stage show to truly appreciate the movie on its own. Then again, perhaps if I find out enough about all the changes and get used to them before seeing the movie maybe I'll be sufficiently prepared.

I listened to the clips on Amazon...now I can definitely see what you mean regarding a lack of edge. The clip from "Epiphany" was especially interesting...I really expected it to be much more angry than it was.

Redlemon · 12-06-2007, 01:47 PM

Is it possible that a calm, sweet-voiced Sweeney might be more terrifying than one that shows his anger? We'll see.

Miss Mango · 12-06-2007, 05:34 PM

I think that according to the original concept, Toby is supposed to either a boy, or at least boyish. I could be totally wrong. I think Im remembering that from something that I read decades ago.

Cute kid!

xepherys · 12-07-2007, 05:32 AM

First, much to TotalMILF's dismay, I had never heard of Sweeney Todd before seeing this preview, so I suppose I'm going into it with no expectations.

Second, I'm a bit appauled that people are trying to make comparisons between musicals and movies based on musicals. Film and stage are two utterly different outlets of expression, and neither really can properly reflect the feeling from the other. I mean, really?

On that note, the Tim Burton/Johnny Depp duo is an all out winner in my book. Edward Scissorhands was a wonderfully charming film with a somewhat dark undertone. Burton is well-known for the darkish under- or overtones to most of his work. Planet of the Apes? Well, I don't think there was much to work with from the original, so I was destined to be unimpressed I suppose. I thought the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was an amazing success. The original movie strayed so far from the book that it was virtually a different story. The feeling form the original movie with Wilder just never clicked with me. It appears I'm in the minority, but I loved the remake and cannot stand the classic.

Regardless of the above, the trailer piqued my curiosity. I'll certainly see a "haji copy" of the movie a week or so after it comes out.

Frosstbyte · 12-07-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

Second, I'm a bit appauled that people are trying to make comparisons between musicals and movies based on musicals. Film and stage are two utterly different outlets of expression, and neither really can properly reflect the feeling from the other. I mean, really?

I think you're kind of missing the point that most of us are trying to make with regards to the musical aspect of the movie. I don't think any of us have a problem with it being a movie based on a musical or, even, a musical movie. The concern is simply that none of these people are professional singers and Sondheim's music is, while beautiful, some of the hardest in all of musical theater. All of the clips I've listened to have either spent a lot of time going through an fx board or are more along the lines of chanting than actual singing. I don't think it does the music justice, which is why I think it was a bad choice to make it a musical instead of just using the story.

TotalMILF · 12-07-2007, 12:56 PM

In order to do it "musical justice" they'd have to either hire voice-over singers, which would be horrible, or use actual broadway/opera singers as the main characters, which would also be horrible from a profit perspective.

Seriously, would you be more inclined go to see Sweeney Todd if the main characters were broadway actors, or Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter!? And it's TIM BURTON, for goodness' sake! He is one dark motherfucker. Do you honestly think he'd even WANT to stay close to Sondheim's adaptation of the story!?

If this were just another run-of-the-mill Broadway-to-Screen movie it would probably flop. Burton is bringing something to the movie that cannot be expressed on the stage and giving it his own dark twist, and I think this will make the movie a huge success. I'm totally going to see it opening day!

And I'm in love with Johnny Depp. Duh.

SecretMethod70 · 12-08-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotalMILF

And it's TIM BURTON, for goodness' sake! He is one dark motherfucker. Do you honestly think he'd even WANT to stay close to Sondheim's adaptation of the story!?

I'm guessing yes, since Sondheim had a fair amount of input in the movie

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

I'm a bit appauled that people are trying to make comparisons between musicals and movies based on musicals. Film and stage are two utterly different outlets of expression, and neither really can properly reflect the feeling from the other. I mean, really?

...snip...

I thought the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was an amazing success. The original movie strayed so far from the book that it was virtually a different story. The feeling form the original movie with Wilder just never clicked with me. It appears I'm in the minority, but I loved the remake and cannot stand the classic.

I can't help but find it amusing that you're upset there are people comparing the Sweeney Todd movie to the stage production, then explain that one of the reasons Burton's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was better is because it was more like the book

Anyway, most of the people in this thread aren't saying anything particularly bad about the movie. Some reservations have been expressed, but even there no one is asserting that anything will certainly be bad. We're simply saying (OK, I'm simply saying, but I think many here agree) that the changes are interesting and in some cases we're not sure if the change is for the better. That's no different than saying the first Willy Wonka movie wasn't as good because of deviations it made from its source material.

james t kirk · 12-09-2007, 01:39 PM

I saw saw Sweeney Todd last week at the Princess of Wales Theatre.

It was quite an interesting show. It was re-worked so that the actors in the play both played the musical score, acted, and sang.

How they came up withe required number of people in the world who have enough talent to do all this incredibly well is beyond me.

I had never heard of the play before but by chance read a review of it in the Globe and Mail where the reviewer was saying "whatever you do, don't miss this one" He was right. A brilliant show. Stand outs for me were Edmund Bagnell who played Tobias (and the violin, and the obo, and the clarinet) and sang and had this maniac expression on his face even when just in the background.

Also Judy Kaye who played Mrs. Lovett to a T. She was brilliant as well.

Here's a review of this re-thunk Sweeney Todd.

If the travelling show comes to your town, I'd recommend you check it out...

http://www.eye.net/arts/theatre/article/9148

Redlemon · 12-20-2007, 12:17 PM

The early reviews are coming in strong. I even saw it on Time Magazine's Top 10 movies for this year. But, I think I'll still be waiting for my local experts (i.e., this thread) to weigh in before I go. This weekend is booked already anyways.

SecretMethod70 · 12-20-2007, 02:17 PM

Came across this on a music site I read and found it interesting....

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5347

Quote:

Last night while indulging my Project Runway obsession, a trailer for Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd took over the airwaves and giddiness ensued. Really, I was beyond excited by the prospect of running out to my local cineplex and shelling out $11 to see Johnny Depp as the infamous demon barber of Fleet Street. However, this morning my bubble of enthusiasm was abruptly burst. Let me explain: Today's mail sack included a promo copy of the film's soundtrack, which was immediately inserted into the player after shredding through the shrink-wrap. Expecting to hear something along the line of the piercing opening sonority from Jonathan Tunick's original orchestration, I listened with mounting trepidation. About halfway through the organ prelude, I realized that my ears were not going to be blasted by any jarring timbres.

In fact, you could tell by the predictable swell in the music exactly where the opening title would dominate the movie screen. The music seemed safe, recognizable, with a clichéd touch of evil, but hardly sinister in a visceral sense. This was Sweeney-lite, all sharp edges sanded down, a mere Nescafé of Sondheim's more raucous Broadway rendition. Then came the song "No Place Like London," and the Disneyization of the music continued. To see if things might get a little ugly, or at least musically emote with the slightest touch of abandonment, I skipped ahead to "A Little Priest." Nope. The score seems to be meticulously crafted to the point of being too glossy for my taste. I know I shouldn't base my expectations on the original version, but it's an inevitable human trait that's difficult to suppress. That said, I'll probably be in line at the cinema opening weekend. I'm sure that once onscreen Helena Bonham Carter will make me forget all about my nostalgia for Angela Lansbury—fingers crossed.

This news isn't really surprising to me, especially based on the things I've heard so far. That's not necessarily bad though: the darker aspects of Sweeney Todd may very well be expressed through the film medium in ways that live theatre can't, and therefore it may have been less necessary to use the music in such a matter. Still...the music is a big part of why I love the show so much.

The fan of Sondheim's Sweeney Todd in me is cautiously optimistic about the movie.

The fan of the general Sweeney Todd story in me is confident that I'll find the movie thoroughly entertaining.

If that makes any sense.

SecretMethod70 · 12-20-2007, 11:39 PM

The New York Times has reviewed it....

Quote:

Murder Most Musical

By A. O. SCOTT
Published: December 21, 2007

Tim Burton makes fantasy movies. Stephen Sondheim writes musicals. It is hard to think of two more optimistic genres of popular art, or of two popular artists who have so systematically subverted that optimism. Mr. Sondheim has always gravitated toward the dissonance lurking in hummable tunes, and has threaded his song-and-dance spectaculars with subtexts of anxiety and alienation. Mr. Burton, for his part, dwells most naturally (if somewhat uneasily) in the realms of the gothic and the grotesque, turning comic books and children’s tales into scary, nightmarish shadow plays.

And so it should not be surprising that “Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street,” Mr. Burton’s film adaptation of Mr. Sondheim’s musical, is as dark and terrifying as any motion picture in recent memory, not excluding the bloody installments in the “Saw” franchise. Indeed, “Sweeney” is as much a horror film as a musical: It is cruel in its effects and radical in its misanthropy, expressing a breathtakingly, rigorously pessimistic view of human nature. It is also something close to a masterpiece, a work of extreme — I am tempted to say evil — genius.

As it was originally performed onstage, with all the songs Mr. Sondheim composed for it, “Sweeney Todd” balanced its inherent grisliness with a whimsical vitality. The basic story is a revenger’s tragedy more Jacobean than Victorian, but Mr. Sondheim nonetheless wrings some grim, boisterous comedy out of both the impulse for vengeance and the bustling spirit of commerce. A barber, wronged by a powerful judge, returns to London and sets up shop, cutting throats as well as hair. The bodies of his victims are turned into savory meat pies by Mrs. Lovett, his energetic partner in business and crime. Cannibalism and mass murder as the basis for a hit show — what a perverse and delicious joke.

It seemed a lot less funny in the recent revival, which starred Michael Cerveris and Patti Lupone in roles originated on Broadway by Len Cariou and Angela Lansbury in 1979. Mr. Burton’s film, in spite of the participation of Sacha Baron Cohen (as a mountebank barber in a skin-tight costume) and Timothy Spall (as a louche bailiff) pretty much casts out frivolity altogether. Mr. Burton’s London is a dark, smoky oil slick of a city. Dante Ferretti’s production design, which owes something to the Victorian city confected for Carol Reed’s “Oliver!,” can make even daylight look sinister. Innocence, represented by a pair of young would-be lovers (Jayne Wisener and Jamie Campbell Bower) has virtually no chance in this place; it is a joke played by fate, something to be corrupted, imprisoned or destroyed.

Mrs. Lovett the pie maker is played by Helena Bonham Carter, a witchy fixture of Mr. Burton’s cinematic universe as well as the mother of his children. If the director has an alter ego, or at least an actor consistently able to embody his ideas on screen, it would have to be Johnny Depp. He was the hurt, misunderstood man-child in “Edward Scissorhands,” the cracked visionary in “Ed Wood” and the cold, creepy candy mogul in “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,” in each case giving form to an emotional equation that had never quite been seen on film before. As Sweeney, his hair streaked with white and his eyes rimmed in black, he is an avatar of rage.

Mr. Depp’s singing voice is harsh and thin, but amazingly forceful. He brings the unpolished urgency of rock ’n’ roll to an idiom accustomed to more refinement, and in doing so awakens the violence of Mr. Sondheim’s lyrics and melodies. Some of the crowd-pleasing numbers, like “The Ballad of Sweeney Todd,” have been pared away, but their absence only contributes to the diabolical coherence of the film, which moves with a furious momentum toward its sanguinary conclusion.

Like nearly every other horror-film serial killer — the outcast teenager abused by the cool kids; the decent man whose suffering has been ignored or mocked — Sweeney starts out as a sympathetic figure. Once upon a time, he was a happy husband and father, until his lovely wife (Laura Michelle Kelly) caught the eye of a malignant judge (Alan Rickman), who transported the poor barber to Australia. Now, after many years, he has returned to find that his daughter, now a teenager, has become the judge’s ward. Finding his old straight razors — “my friends” — under the floorboards of his former shop, Sweeney sets out to ensnare the judge, a project that requires the deaths of quite a few customers along the way.

“They’ll never be missed,” sings the practical Mrs. Lovett. Sweeney’s view is harsher, almost genocidal. “They all deserve to die,” he says, looking out over the rooftops of the city. And Mr. Burton depicts those deaths ruthlessly. The initial geyser of blood may seem artificially bright, but when the bodies slide head first from the chair down a chute into the cellar, they crash and crumple with sickening literalness. You are watching human beings turned into meat.

It may seem strange that I am praising a work of such unremitting savagery. I confess that I’m a little startled myself, but it’s been a long time since a movie gave me nightmares. And the unsettling power of “Sweeney Todd” comes above all from its bracing refusal of any sentimental consolation, from Mr. Burton’s willingness to push the most dreadful implications of Mr. Sondheim’s story to their blackest conclusions.

“Sweeney Todd” is a fable about a world from which the possibility of justice has vanished, replaced on one hand by vain and arbitrary power, on the other by a righteous fury that quickly spirals into madness. There may be a suggestion of hopefulness near the end, but you don’t see hope on the screen. What you see is as dark as the grave. What you hear — some of the finest stage music of the past 40 years — is equally infernal, except that you might just as well call it heavenly.

noodle · 12-21-2007, 03:41 AM

I.
Can't.
Wait.

Anxst · 12-21-2007, 09:00 PM

I went and saw it, and I'm a huge fan of the musical. I walked in ready to be disappointed, and hoping otherwise.

I walked away impressed.

Although the music isn't as rich as the broadway operetta, its key elements are all there. The singing of Depp and Bonham Carter (or is Bonham her middle name? Damn you, thrice named people!) is a glossy Hollywood version of the hard discords and leitmotifs I know and love, but I didn't even expect that.

They're actually pretty good. They move the story along. The singing doesn't seem out of place (any more than in any musical). They were fun to listen to.

The visuals were stunning, as I expected. I liked a few of the minor changes they made, and thought they were for the better, especially the change in Toby's age.

Overall, I'd say it's an elegant piece of work. I give it 8.5/10.

Halx · 12-22-2007, 08:51 PM

I just saw it. I was thoroughly entertained. I was a very happy clam. I did wish for more satisfying music, but every time I had a chance to ask myself how I was enjoying it, the answer was always, "This is so awesome!"

This movie had me going from the first minute. Probably one of Burton's best.

TotalMILF · 12-22-2007, 10:10 PM

Good lord, it's my new favorite Tim Burton movie!! It was AMAZING!!!

I want to go see it again.

Starkizzer · 12-23-2007, 12:22 AM

im2smrt4u and I went and saw it at a theater on Sunset Blvd called the Vista. This had to be the best place to see this movie. The way the acoustic was done made you feel like the organ was right there in the room with you!
We went with my theater buff friend who has seen many productions and the original done with Angela Lansbury and she said she was not disappointed at all.

Plus Depp is hot even if he is a malnurished demon barber!

ironpham · 12-26-2007, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxst

Bonham Carter (or is Bonham her middle name? Damn you, thrice named people!)

I think her first name is Helena.

Great movie. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

Frosstbyte · 12-26-2007, 11:47 AM

My only complaint was really the ending, which I thought did not do a good enough job of showing what happened to Joanna and Anthony after Spoiler: everyone dies. I can understand why the original ending in which Spoiler: Joanna loses it and Anthony tries to talk her out of it and then we see Toby grinding everyone "three times" would be a little much for most audiences, but while they left on a great image, there were a few major loose ends hanging around.

Other than that, the movie worked very well and is probably the best recent movie musical. The singing definitely did not do the music justice, but I doubt they could've gotten movie actors as talented as Rickman, Depp and Carter who could also sing the show like a Broadway star could. The acting performances really made up for the weak singing.

I think my favorite moment was the "By the Sea" dream sequence. That whole thing had me in stitches. What a wonderful, perfectly Burton-esque explosion of light and color in the middle of dark, dreary London.

On a side note, a few people walked out of the show I watched-I think due to the gore. I suppose if you're blood-sensitive, it might be a bad movie for you, but come on, it's called "the Demon Barber of Fleet Street." Were people really expecting a movie without blood and gore? It wasn't the gore and grossness that's gotten so popular with all the torture porn shit that's running around now; it was cartoony and reminiscent of Looney Toons with an R rating instead of Hostel. Nothing to get crazy about at all.

Go see it!

10-04-2007, 02:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
onodrim Cosmically Curious Location: Chicago, IL	Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd I've been looking forward to this movie for quite some time. For one thing, Burton is an excellent film maker and I've enjoyed everything of his I've seen. Also, Sweeney Todd is an amazing piece of music which I really enjoy. I just saw the trailer today, and I'm torn. On one hand, as a film it looks incredible, very stylistic and dark. However, from the trailer it doesn't seem like it's doing the music justice. It appears that most of it may be replaced by dialogue, and what is sung is not in the operatic tradition. I think my overall impression is still positive and I'm looking forward to it. Any other Burton/Sondheim fans have any thoughts? EDIT Just found this good article and thought it should be added to the discussion. __________________ "The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides" -Carl Sagan Last edited by SecretMethod70; 10-08-2007 at 12:40 PM..

10-05-2007, 05:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I saw the touring company of Sweeney in Boston when I was in elementary school, and it made a huge impact on me. I see very few movies, and most of what I do see are Pixar or similar. I haven't seen anything with Depp in it, so I don't know what he is capable of. I reacted to the announcement of this production the same way I reacted to the Lord of the Rings - can it really be done? LotR was successful. The trailer for Sweeney seems a little too dark compared to the stage version - they didn't draw any of the humor forward. But, trailers are short. I look forward to your reviews of this when it comes out; the newspaper reviews won't be useful to me. I want to hear what theatre lovers think, and I trust both of you. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-05-2007, 09:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Agreed on all points mrklixx. Incidentally, neither onodrim nor I have seen the movies you mention as bad (actually, she may have seen Sleepy Hollow - I didn't know her when that one came out) The reason for that, though, is that the trailers made it readily apparent they were going to be bad. I don't get turned off from Sweeney Todd's trailer the way I was turned off from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory's trailer. redlemon: I don't actually mind how dark the movie seems from the trailer, but that could be because I really enjoy the Sweeney Todd story itself, even without Sondheim. (But Sondheim sure does have an AWESOME take on it.) If Burton wants to take the humor from Sondheim and make it a little more psychotic, I don't mind that much - it's not all that different from what a different stage director can do to the production. Butchering the excellent score, on the other hand, is something I'm worried about. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

10-06-2007, 03:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Tim Burton has great style. I'm definitely looking forward to Sweeny Todd even though I've not seen the stage play. Johnny Depp is a great actor. The characters he portrays are usually better than the movie they're in.. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

10-06-2007, 04:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
Anxst Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance. Location: Madison, WI	I love the stage musical, and with a few reservations I am also looking forward to this. As long as the music isn't horrible, I think it's going to be well done. Burton will certainly bring forward the humor...that sort of thing just doesn't come across well in a 30 second trailer. I like the overall tone that has been set, it's just the music that worries me. Only time will tell... Edit: I was speaking to someone on another message board who works in unrelated things at the same studio the sound recording for this is happening/happened in. Rumor from him says there's so little singing in the trailer because they're still mixing the songs for the master film copy. __________________ Don't mind me. I'm just releasing the insanity pressure from my headvalves. Last edited by Anxst; 10-06-2007 at 07:27 PM..

10-05-2007, 09:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was so full of FAIL. It had zero charm

10-07-2007, 03:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
bhamv Upright	I saw the stage musical and had mixed feelings about it. I felt it was a great story, and would've worked great as a novel or as a straight-out play. But I didn't like the music very much. Part of this might be something of a bias against Sondheim's work, for some reason I hate everything by Sondheim I've ever seen. (Into the Woods, Passion, Sweeny Todd, heck I even dislike West Side Story) I agree that the overall dark tone of the story suits Burton's style, so I think that's one plus for this movie. But honestly I'd prefer if he didn't go for the musical.

10-07-2007, 03:49 AM	#10 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Burton has great style but the majority of his films fall apart in the third act. I have found him to a great disappointment, time and again. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-08-2007, 09:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
Val_1 Addict Location: In a State of Denial	I love the look of the trailer, and I think Burton's style will work great for the dark story. However, I don't know how strong a singer Johnny Depp is, and that is the biggest downfall of movie versions of musicals: casting stars instead of casting actual musical theater actors. Will it be a full out musical? Or will they remove some/all of the music? __________________ I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. -Frank Sinatra

10-08-2007, 12:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	heaven help me....Johnny Depp and Alan Rickman in the same movie sigh __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-08-2007, 12:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Now with embedded-trailer-y goodness! click for trailer - you may need to install a DivX plugin, but it's worth it for the quality :) Double click on the video to make it fullscreen click to show <object codebase="http://go.divx.com/plugin/DivXBrowserPlugin.cab" height="690" width="1280" classid="clsid:67DABFBF-D0AB-41fa-9C46-CC0F21721616"><param name="autoplay" value="false"><param name="src" value="http://video.stage6.com/1713595/.divx" /><param name="custommode" value="Stage6" /><param name="showpostplaybackad" value="false" /><embed type="video/divx" src="http://video.stage6.com/1713595/.divx" pluginspage="http://go.divx.com/plugin/download/" showpostplaybackad="false" custommode="Stage6" autoplay="false" height="690" width="1280" /></object> __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 10-08-2007 at 12:42 PM..

10-27-2007, 08:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
dreadlock Upright	I just recently found out this is going to be a musical. That's going to be...interesting.

12-05-2007, 01:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I like Burton and the previously mentioned films that others thought weren't so good. I can't wait to see this one. Not every thing needs to be torn apart into a million pieces. Just enjoy and don't over analyze.

12-05-2007, 05:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I'm so looking forward to it. Three of my favorite actors, a wonderful director, and a fabulous story. I can see everyone's points of concern; however, I choose not to compare or go in with expectations based on the book or another film. Why compare? I'll walk into the theater looking forward to seeing those actors together in a brand new film. Since Burton is a film artist, I'm more than willing to experience his interpretation.

12-05-2007, 06:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	Those clips don't make me a believer in the choice to make it a musical. They're all great actors but they're not coming close to doing the music justice. I'll se it anyway and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I think it would've been better to do a straight show and use the musical's music in the background for atmosphere.

12-06-2007, 06:24 AM	#21 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Thanks for the clips, SM70. I am feeling a bit better about it all. It won't be the stage version, but I hope I can appreciate it for what it will be. "Rated R: Graphic Bloody Violence". They are really pushing the blood on this one, aren't they? Also, more audio clips available at Amazon.com: Sweeney Todd The Demon Barber Of Fleet Street Deluxe - Complete Edition: Music: Original Score Amazon.com: Sweeney Todd The Demon Barber Of Fleet Street Deluxe - Complete Edition: Music: Original Score . __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

12-06-2007, 06:57 AM	#22 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Thank you for the preview. I saw the Broadway show when it came back on, I think a year ago. Cast was incredible on the Broadway show, they all played the instruments, the stage work was supposedly completely different then the original. Music and everything was just breathtaking. I am a big Tim Burton, fan but got to agree with Mrklixx, and some of the others, that not all of his work was all that. And Charlie and the choclate factory, OUCH that sucked big time. I may have to wait to read a review or two before I can commit to seeing it at the movies versus on dvd.

12-06-2007, 01:47 PM	#24 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Is it possible that a calm, sweet-voiced Sweeney might be more terrifying than one that shows his anger? We'll see. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

12-06-2007, 05:34 PM	#25 (permalink)
Miss Mango Psycho	I think that according to the original concept, Toby is supposed to either a boy, or at least boyish. I could be totally wrong. I think Im remembering that from something that I read decades ago. Cute kid!

12-07-2007, 05:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	First, much to TotalMILF's dismay, I had never heard of Sweeney Todd before seeing this preview, so I suppose I'm going into it with no expectations. Second, I'm a bit appauled that people are trying to make comparisons between musicals and movies based on musicals. Film and stage are two utterly different outlets of expression, and neither really can properly reflect the feeling from the other. I mean, really? On that note, the Tim Burton/Johnny Depp duo is an all out winner in my book. Edward Scissorhands was a wonderfully charming film with a somewhat dark undertone. Burton is well-known for the darkish under- or overtones to most of his work. Planet of the Apes? Well, I don't think there was much to work with from the original, so I was destined to be unimpressed I suppose. I thought the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was an amazing success. The original movie strayed so far from the book that it was virtually a different story. The feeling form the original movie with Wilder just never clicked with me. It appears I'm in the minority, but I loved the remake and cannot stand the classic. Regardless of the above, the trailer piqued my curiosity. I'll certainly see a "haji copy" of the movie a week or so after it comes out. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

12-07-2007, 12:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
TotalMILF Delusional... but in a funny way Location: deeee-TROIT!!!	In order to do it "musical justice" they'd have to either hire voice-over singers, which would be horrible, or use actual broadway/opera singers as the main characters, which would also be horrible from a profit perspective. Seriously, would you be more inclined go to see Sweeney Todd if the main characters were broadway actors, or Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter!? And it's TIM BURTON, for goodness' sake! He is one dark motherfucker. Do you honestly think he'd even WANT to stay close to Sondheim's adaptation of the story!? If this were just another run-of-the-mill Broadway-to-Screen movie it would probably flop. Burton is bringing something to the movie that cannot be expressed on the stage and giving it his own dark twist, and I think this will make the movie a huge success. I'm totally going to see it opening day! And I'm in love with Johnny Depp. Duh. __________________ "I'm sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

12-09-2007, 01:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I saw saw Sweeney Todd last week at the Princess of Wales Theatre. It was quite an interesting show. It was re-worked so that the actors in the play both played the musical score, acted, and sang. How they came up withe required number of people in the world who have enough talent to do all this incredibly well is beyond me. I had never heard of the play before but by chance read a review of it in the Globe and Mail where the reviewer was saying "whatever you do, don't miss this one" He was right. A brilliant show. Stand outs for me were Edmund Bagnell who played Tobias (and the violin, and the obo, and the clarinet) and sang and had this maniac expression on his face even when just in the background. Also Judy Kaye who played Mrs. Lovett to a T. She was brilliant as well. Here's a review of this re-thunk Sweeney Todd. If the travelling show comes to your town, I'd recommend you check it out... http://www.eye.net/arts/theatre/article/9148

12-20-2007, 12:17 PM	#31 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	The early reviews are coming in strong. I even saw it on Time Magazine's Top 10 movies for this year. But, I think I'll still be waiting for my local experts (i.e., this thread) to weigh in before I go. This weekend is booked already anyways. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

12-21-2007, 09:00 PM	#35 (permalink)
Anxst Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance. Location: Madison, WI	I went and saw it, and I'm a huge fan of the musical. I walked in ready to be disappointed, and hoping otherwise. I walked away impressed. Although the music isn't as rich as the broadway operetta, its key elements are all there. The singing of Depp and Bonham Carter (or is Bonham her middle name? Damn you, thrice named people!) is a glossy Hollywood version of the hard discords and leitmotifs I know and love, but I didn't even expect that. They're actually pretty good. They move the story along. The singing doesn't seem out of place (any more than in any musical). They were fun to listen to. The visuals were stunning, as I expected. I liked a few of the minor changes they made, and thought they were for the better, especially the change in Toby's age. Overall, I'd say it's an elegant piece of work. I give it 8.5/10. __________________ Don't mind me. I'm just releasing the insanity pressure from my headvalves.

12-22-2007, 08:51 PM	#36 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I just saw it. I was thoroughly entertained. I was a very happy clam. I did wish for more satisfying music, but every time I had a chance to ask myself how I was enjoying it, the answer was always, "This is so awesome!" This movie had me going from the first minute. Probably one of Burton's best. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-22-2007, 10:10 PM	#37 (permalink)
TotalMILF Delusional... but in a funny way Location: deeee-TROIT!!!	Good lord, it's my new favorite Tim Burton movie!! It was AMAZING!!! I want to go see it again. __________________ "I'm sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

12-23-2007, 12:22 AM	#38 (permalink)
Starkizzer Hi floor! Make me a samwich. Location: Ontario (in the stray cat complex)	im2smrt4u and I went and saw it at a theater on Sunset Blvd called the Vista. This had to be the best place to see this movie. The way the acoustic was done made you feel like the organ was right there in the room with you! We went with my theater buff friend who has seen many productions and the original done with Angela Lansbury and she said she was not disappointed at all. Plus Depp is hot even if he is a malnurished demon barber! __________________ Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey Last edited by Starkizzer; 12-23-2007 at 12:25 AM..

12-26-2007, 11:47 AM	#40 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	My only complaint was really the ending, which I thought did not do a good enough job of showing what happened to Joanna and Anthony after Spoiler: everyone dies. I can understand why the original ending in which Spoiler: Joanna loses it and Anthony tries to talk her out of it and then we see Toby grinding everyone "three times" would be a little much for most audiences, but while they left on a great image, there were a few major loose ends hanging around. Other than that, the movie worked very well and is probably the best recent movie musical. The singing definitely did not do the music justice, but I doubt they could've gotten movie actors as talented as Rickman, Depp and Carter who could also sing the show like a Broadway star could. The acting performances really made up for the weak singing. I think my favorite moment was the "By the Sea" dream sequence. That whole thing had me in stitches. What a wonderful, perfectly Burton-esque explosion of light and color in the middle of dark, dreary London. On a side note, a few people walked out of the show I watched-I think due to the gore. I suppose if you're blood-sensitive, it might be a bad movie for you, but come on, it's called "the Demon Barber of Fleet Street." Were people really expecting a movie without blood and gore? It wasn't the gore and grossness that's gotten so popular with all the torture porn shit that's running around now; it was cartoony and reminiscent of Looney Toons with an R rating instead of Hostel. Nothing to get crazy about at all. Go see it!