telekinetic

Someone who has read the book all the way email snopes.com and tell them to change this to 'mixed' (unless this book takes a turn for the weird in the third section, I've just now finished part 2, and can only assume that they're referring to intercision):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

This line in particular has everyone at my work all freaked out:

Snopes has it currently listed as True, and now most religious groups are using that statement as they're anti-movie rallying point, instead of the anti-religious themes. "What, physical mutilation? Never taking my children to that!"

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Willravel

I guess they skipped the Passion of the Christ....

ring

It is interesting to see a list of books that have been banned,
over time.

Imma gonna go look at such a list now.

Yeah, you can't fix stupid can you?

Willravel

VERY enjoyable. I'd give it a solid 8/10. I sincerely hope that they can get enough people in seats this time around to fund the next movies.

Cynthetiq

Nice I can finally comment on it...

6/10

Solid book adaptation, stilted performances and timing. pace of movie goes from plot point to plot point to plot point with little character development within the movie to provide the backstories and character drives of the supporting characters.

Spoiler: no head of Stanislaus Grumman, no Lyra trying to fool the polar bear Iorek Byrnison explaining how human's can't fool bears. no explanation of the desire of Ragnarson pushing being human on all his subjects and the defective armor he wears. worst of all, the happy ending, and not the cliff hanger ending seen in the trailers with them going into the Northern Lights. I'm trying to find out how it did in front of test audiences with the original book ending. The movie novelization published by Scholastic, doesn't contain the same ending as the movie because the edit decision to remove the book ending was at the last minute.

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1010011010

A novel made into a movie made into a novel. I remember when this was just a Monty Python joke.

I'd recommend reading the books over seeing the movie. It seems like they took the passages from the book that advanced the story or were particularly active and cinematic, put them in whatever order they felt best suited the pacing of a holiday movie, and then tried to fill in the gaps to make it almost semi-coherent. Character development? BAH! We've got panserbjorn! Multi-dimensional characters that give a sense of history? BAH! We've got really cool particle animations! And zeppelins! And panserbjorn!

The most developed character in the movie is a CGI talking polar bear. In the book he is an important, but not primary, character. I expect to see him hocking Coca-Cola soon.

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JStrider

I enjoyed the movie, didnt really care for the rearranging they did, and it did seem a bit simplified.

I didnt like where they ended it, shoulda ended at the same point as the book.

I think they ended it there so as not to leave people with such a "left hanging" type feeling like many people had after the first LOTR movie...

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Willravel

With TLOTR, we knew there would be sequels. I don't have that same confidence with Golden Compass.

jorgelito

This movie is getting solid reviews. I have never heard of it before nor the books. But I will certainly go see it now. The polar bears in helmets got me. Plus Nicole Kidman looks very cute.

I think the whole religious controversy is way overblown. Just another excuse for Christian bashing created by the media. In fact, the US Catholic Association has endorsed this movie and gave it very favorable and positive reviews. Now of course there are some protesters, there always are. Even for Passion of the Christ.

Willravel

In this movie? Almost distractingly so.

Daniel_

My companion is a Tiger.

That's cool.

I liked the books, and have booked tickets to take the whole family to see it tomorrow - I hope it's good.

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

telekinetic

Link? Google doesn't even give any hits for "US Catholic Association"

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jorgelito

Sorry about that - fuzzy memory sometimes. The correct name is the "US Conference of Catholic Bishops".

Here is the link to the movie review: http://www.usccb.org/movies/g/thegoldencompass.shtml

telekinetic

Thanks, I'll reply:all with this link to the various emails that have been flying around the office.

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Daniel_

I liked it and so did my daughter.

They shaved the final chapter from the book - but that didn't hurt the film much.

In LOTR they played with when certain chapters were filmed v when they appear in the books, too.

Hope they get the money to make the next two.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

mixedmedia

Saw this yesterday. Took my eight-year-old daughter. She enjoyed it very much.

It wasn't perfect, certainly it has flaws, but all in all it was an enjoyable flick and I thought the performances, for the most part, were steady. Especially the girl playing Lyra.

Just being able to sit through a kids' movie without hating every second of it is something in and of itself. I didn't expect it to be Lord of the Rings.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

I haven't read the book nor seen the movie (I plan to do both soon), but I love the idea of the daemon so far. I took the test, and came up with a Gibbon named Alchaeon. "Modest, spontaneous, humble, fickle, and assertive." Go figure. (I was born in the year of the sheep, not the monkey... that would be ktspktsp!)

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

mixedmedia

Oh, I missed the daemon test...

Modest, solitary, humble, flexible and assertive

I have a crow daemon named Inachus. Cool.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Lucifer

When you read the books, it becomes clear that people's daemons really reflect their personality, therefore the servants all have dog daemons, etc.

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- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

Daniel_

This is true. I have a really stripy personality, hence the tiger.

I can't remember - is it clear that gay people have same sex Daemons, or just implied?

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Jove

I don't think gay people have same sex Daemons, since depending on your gender, for example if you are a male then your daemon is going to be female.

And the daemon's form won't set until after puberty, although Lyra's daemon, Pan, did stop changing at a certain point in the last book, but I won't give reasons here, unless people are interested in the reason?

1010011010

There's a guy in the kitchens at Jordan College that has a same sex daemon. He's the only example I recall. It's remarked that people with daemons of the same sex aren't common, but that was about it. I do remember thinking it meant he was gay, but not for any specific reason in the text.

There are scenes where people's daemons are getting into some heavy petting (rimshot) while the humans flirt... that's about as close as it gets to implying same-sex daemon --> same-sex orientation. However, the daemons are often not even the same species, so whether they're opposite sex seems nearly irrelevant. And the movie has Coulter's monkey manhandling Pantalaimon in an uninvited friendly way...

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Frosstbyte

I'm not even really sure it's implied in any meaningful way. The rule is that your daemon is of the opposite sex. There are a few unexplained exceptions to that, but nothing to categorically state why it happens.

The movie bothered me for the same reasons the movie version of Harry Potter 5 bothered me. They both neglected real character driven action in an effort to frantically hit all the exciting scenes from the book. It's not helped by the fact that this story got dumbed down an enormous amount from the book and that the world mythology (i.e. the rules governing the fantasy) is so complex. I liked seeing it and I'd like to see the other two, but I don't think it's very realistic to think they'll be made. It doesn't seem like this one is putting up the kind of numbers they'd need it to in order to finance the sequels.

Which says nothing for the fact that the controversial elements related to religion and the church play much more prominently into the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass. I'm not sure how they'd get financing to make the stories without removing them but I'm not sure how they stories would work without leaving them in. Who knows.

Seeker5509

I can't wait to see this move!

My Daemon is a female tiger called Eutropia... I'm apparently modest, shy, assertive, responsible and proud.

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Illuminaire

The whole movie felt really rushed to me. It was like they were showing exactly what they had to so the main exciting scenes would make sense to someone who hasn't read the book. It would be interesting to get such a person's reaction to the movie... I have a feeling they'd be a little confused.

Also, they messed up the ending!

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telekinetic

Extremely dissapointing. I don't even want to critique it, as it will prevent me from forgetting it. I will say, they managed to completely screw up one of the best opportunities in recent history to portray a steampunk setting in a live action movie. Jet dirigible, jet balloon and glowball horseless carriage for the motherfucking lose! >_<

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Cynthetiq

jet??? I didn't see it as jet, but anbaric which they didn't describe or discuss until the very end of the movie.

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1010011010

Based on a passage in Subtle Knife, There's no particular difference between "Anbaric" and "Electric" other than the fact that fossilized tree sap is called "electrum" in Lyra's world.

The glowball tech is most definitely a lose.I've talked to a few people at work who've seen it. They've liked it in a "THAT ONE POLAR BEAR KICKED THAT OTHER POLAR BEAR'S ASS!" kind of way. The book has a well constructed chain of cause and effect. There aren't too many contrived events or stupid coincidences invoked to advance the plot. The movie is basically nothing but an endless series of inexplicable occurrences to set up the next cinematic fight scene. While I'm saddened this the lack of subtlety isn't jarring to people who haven't read the books, I am pleased that most have expressed interest in reading them.

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telekinetic

Wait, what?

You find the books method of hooking Lyra up with the Costas... Spoiler: OMG slavers have captured me...hurray, inexplicably I am saved by some people that I knew, one of whom was my nursemaid, who just happened to be in the area for totally unrelated reasons less coincidental than the movies version, where Spoiler: at least the costas were 'watching over her', as dumb as that sounded in the movie

Also I have issues claiming the book relies less on deus ex machina based on how the book treated Lyra's second capture Spoiler: where the party of gyptians was ambushed in the snow, Lyra was randomly kidnapped, and the kidnappers, wth no knowledge of who she was, deliver her to exactly where she wants to go versus the movie version of Spoiler: her deliberately wandering in and then pretending to have gotten lost in the storm

However, I do agree. Glowball tech for the MFing lose.

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inkriminator

I haven't seen the movie, but for those who have, and who don't see the anti-religious themes, that is because it has been taken out substantially. The backlash that is being heard from the Religious folk is because the books are unabashadly atheistic.

It is their concern that a movie marketed largely to children will influence many of those kids to read these books. I understand their irritation and applaud their speaking out. Surely everyone, of every age should be introduced to all sorts of philosophies, however this is a very back-handed way of doing so.

The difference between this, and "Passion" is that, to my knowledge, "Passion" was not marketed towards children.

Frosstbyte

The whole "this is a subversive way of getting our kids to be atheists" argument makes absolutely no sense to me. You could say EXACTLY the same thing about the Narnia movies. They downplay the Christian elements to make it more generally palatable and marketable and it's certainly marketed to kids who might read the meaningfully more Christian books. You didn't hear a whole lot of uproar about that. No surprise there.

There is no question that Pullman himself is an unabashed atheist and there is equally little question that the universe that "His Dark Materials" takes place in is not one where the Western monotheistic deity holds any weight (or any deity for that matter). Contrary to popular belief (if any of the people decrying the books read them, they'd know this), the books are not a many hundred page rant about how god and religion are stupid and don't exist and that we'd all be better off if we stopped believing in stupid stories. They are highly critical of dogmatic religious practice and blind faith and they are intensely concerned with the nature of the human soul and human spirituality.

That being said, they can be easily read as entertaining and immersive literature. Reading the Chronicles of Narnia didn't make me into a devout Christian. My father read Narnia to me originally when I was about 6 from start to finish and I re-read them when I was about 10. Neither time did the reading have any impact on my spirituality. Likewise, kids who enjoyed The Golden Compass aren't going to suddenly become heretics simply by reading His Dark Materials.

Now...it might make them ask difficult questions about their parents' faith and their faith, but I think we'd all agree that books that make you think and ask those questions are exactly how we define good literature. For people whose faith is blind and weak, I guess I can see the concern. For people who understand their faith and seek to help others understand it, there's nothing to worry about. I suppose all the people bitching about this fall into the first category, and there's not much to do about them in any situation anyway.

1010011010

The movie and book explanations were the same. Strange example to pick.The problem with the movie version is the Research Station is deliberately isolated. Spoiler: She would not have found it if she'd been lost unless she'd been wandering for a while. The inattention of the station staff is not explored in the movie at all... making the blithe acceptance of this story of walking for hours in the cold seem unlikely. In the book Spoiler: The Research Station pays a bounty for children, an ideal justification for the snow folks turning her in there. In the movie Spoiler: they deliver her to the bears... no reason for this is even attempted.

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inkriminator

Yes, this movie is to Atheism what Narnia is to Christianity. However one reason there was no backlash to Narinia is that America [I live in the U.S. and thus that's where I'm hearing the backlash from] is a Christian country by a large majority. Another reason is that many Christian parents believe an apostate child will goto Hell forever, while an atheist parent would believe their kid will lead a misguided life. The repercussions are more dire in a Christian mindset.

Anyways, I think it's a good thing that these churches / groups are letting the facts be known. I would certainly want to know about a theological backdrop that is anathema to my own beliefs before exposing my children to that.

Frosstbyte

You missed the point of my post. I'm saying that the media's influence on people (especially children) is greatly exaggerated. Just as Narnia had little to no effect on my belief system or that of the millions of others who have read it, His Dark Materials will be read by millions more who enjoy the story without subscribing to the ideology behind it. Being scared of a book because you think it'll turn your child atheist just makes no sense to me. It might happen once in a great while, but if it does, I guarantee it's nothing more than the straw that broke the camel's back, as opposed to a Pullman-inspired epiphany.

abaya

Bringing this thread back to life because we finally went to see it (for free, thanks to ktspktsp's job) ... it only opened in Iceland on December 26th, and we just got back from Lebanon ourselves.

I had been trying to find the book versions in local libraries and bookstores for a while, but had no luck. I'm very intrigued by Pullman's ideas (as weakly presented as they may have been, in the movie)... but did feel like the story was a combination of LOTR, Harry Potter, and Star Wars (Lyra, I am your mother... [insert Nicole Kidman's breathing heavily, a la Darth Vader]). Not to mention the actors and voices were drawn heavily from LOTR and Star Wars as well... hmph.

Seeing it in Iceland was funny in that we ARE in the cold and frozen north, and many of the names are almost directly Icelandic (they translated Iorek's name to "Jórekur Byrnisson" in the subtitles, which made the audience chuckle). And Ragnar Sturlusson, is that really his name in the book??? That name is 100% Icelandic, and nothing else... looks like Pullman drew just as heavily from the Norse world as Tolkien did for his books.

Anyway, I found the ending of the movie came far too soon, and was extremely trite... I was disappointed by that, and the soundtrack as well (it seemed way overdone). I look forward to reading the books. Good thing I'm far closer to being an atheist than a Christian, so it won't tempt me away from my faith. hehe.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

maybe there will be a sequel. $65M in the US is paltry, but $235 worldwide is smashing. Note the books didn't do well here in the US at all compared to worldwide.

I do have them as unabridged audio books read by Philip Pullman if you are interested..... Skogafoss and I listened to them as we drove the ring road in 2000.

Iofur Raknison was the other panserbjørn in the book.

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Leto

huh???

I read it all a couple of years ago and no... it doesn't have anything to do with genital circumcision. Nothing.

it's all to do with the daemons.

I'm interested. Can they be listened to on an MP3 player?

abaya

Wow, that's quite a name change... I mean, Ragnar Sturlusson is straight out of the sagas, and I am sure there are a few of those names still in the Icelandic phone book today (though Sturluson is the correct spelling). Very funny for the Icelandic audience.
Interesting, it actually occurred to me (during the daemon-removal part in the movie) that this could be a reference to genital cutting when the bad guys said, "It's just a little cut," "It's for their own good," etc -- it was only momentarily, but it did come to mind.

More strongly, though, I saw the removal of children's souls and "forcing" them to grow up faster as a possible commentary on/allusion to child slave labor and its consequences... that haunted look that Roger (was that his name?) had when Lyra found him, as if he'd been working in a carpet shop in India and had his humanity stripped from him by the horrible conditions. But of course, the author probably did not intend to communicate that... it was just my interpretation (takes me back to Ruskin's Stones of Venice and How the Other Half Lives, don't ask me why).

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--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

Golden Compass takes 2 Oscar Nominations

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