12-07-2007, 08:21 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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Someone who has read the book all the way email snopes.com and tell them to change this to 'mixed' (unless this book takes a turn for the weird in the third section, I've just now finished part 2, and can only assume that they're referring to intercision):
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp This line in particular has everyone at my work all freaked out: Quote:
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12-08-2007, 05:35 AM | #45 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Nice I can finally comment on it...
6/10 Solid book adaptation, stilted performances and timing. pace of movie goes from plot point to plot point to plot point with little character development within the movie to provide the backstories and character drives of the supporting characters. Spoiler: no head of Stanislaus Grumman, no Lyra trying to fool the polar bear Iorek Byrnison explaining how human's can't fool bears. no explanation of the desire of Ragnarson pushing being human on all his subjects and the defective armor he wears. worst of all, the happy ending, and not the cliff hanger ending seen in the trailers with them going into the Northern Lights. I'm trying to find out how it did in front of test audiences with the original book ending. The movie novelization published by Scholastic, doesn't contain the same ending as the movie because the edit decision to remove the book ending was at the last minute.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
12-08-2007, 08:52 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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I'd recommend reading the books over seeing the movie. It seems like they took the passages from the book that advanced the story or were particularly active and cinematic, put them in whatever order they felt best suited the pacing of a holiday movie, and then tried to fill in the gaps to make it almost semi-coherent. Character development? BAH! We've got panserbjorn! Multi-dimensional characters that give a sense of history? BAH! We've got really cool particle animations! And zeppelins! And panserbjorn! The most developed character in the movie is a CGI talking polar bear. In the book he is an important, but not primary, character. I expect to see him hocking Coca-Cola soon.
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Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions |
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12-08-2007, 10:47 AM | #47 (permalink) |
Poo-tee-weet?
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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I enjoyed the movie, didnt really care for the rearranging they did, and it did seem a bit simplified.
I didnt like where they ended it, shoulda ended at the same point as the book. I think they ended it there so as not to leave people with such a "left hanging" type feeling like many people had after the first LOTR movie...
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12-08-2007, 01:55 PM | #49 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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This movie is getting solid reviews. I have never heard of it before nor the books. But I will certainly go see it now. The polar bears in helmets got me. Plus Nicole Kidman looks very cute.
I think the whole religious controversy is way overblown. Just another excuse for Christian bashing created by the media. In fact, the US Catholic Association has endorsed this movie and gave it very favorable and positive reviews. Now of course there are some protesters, there always are. Even for Passion of the Christ. |
12-08-2007, 02:50 PM | #51 (permalink) |
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
Location: Southern England
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My companion is a Tiger.
That's cool. I liked the books, and have booked tickets to take the whole family to see it tomorrow - I hope it's good.
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12-08-2007, 02:53 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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12-08-2007, 04:08 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Here is the link to the movie review: http://www.usccb.org/movies/g/thegoldencompass.shtml |
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12-09-2007, 12:36 PM | #55 (permalink) |
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
Location: Southern England
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I liked it and so did my daughter.
They shaved the final chapter from the book - but that didn't hurt the film much. In LOTR they played with when certain chapters were filmed v when they appear in the books, too. Hope they get the money to make the next two.
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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝ |
12-09-2007, 01:37 PM | #56 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Saw this yesterday. Took my eight-year-old daughter. She enjoyed it very much.
It wasn't perfect, certainly it has flaws, but all in all it was an enjoyable flick and I thought the performances, for the most part, were steady. Especially the girl playing Lyra. Just being able to sit through a kids' movie without hating every second of it is something in and of itself. I didn't expect it to be Lord of the Rings.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
12-10-2007, 05:08 AM | #57 (permalink) |
Location: Iceland
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I haven't read the book nor seen the movie (I plan to do both soon), but I love the idea of the daemon so far. I took the test, and came up with a Gibbon named Alchaeon. "Modest, spontaneous, humble, fickle, and assertive." Go figure. (I was born in the year of the sheep, not the monkey... that would be ktspktsp!)
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
12-10-2007, 05:32 AM | #58 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Oh, I missed the daemon test...
Modest, solitary, humble, flexible and assertive I have a crow daemon named Inachus. Cool.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
12-10-2007, 06:27 AM | #59 (permalink) |
Husband of Seamaiden
Location: Nova Scotia
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When you read the books, it becomes clear that people's daemons really reflect their personality, therefore the servants all have dog daemons, etc.
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I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. - Job 30:29 1123, 6536, 5321 |
12-10-2007, 01:34 PM | #60 (permalink) | |
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
Location: Southern England
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I can't remember - is it clear that gay people have same sex Daemons, or just implied?
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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝ |
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12-10-2007, 05:14 PM | #61 (permalink) |
Groovy Hipster Nerd
Location: Michigan
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I don't think gay people have same sex Daemons, since depending on your gender, for example if you are a male then your daemon is going to be female.
And the daemon's form won't set until after puberty, although Lyra's daemon, Pan, did stop changing at a certain point in the last book, but I won't give reasons here, unless people are interested in the reason? |
12-10-2007, 05:15 PM | #62 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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There are scenes where people's daemons are getting into some heavy petting (rimshot) while the humans flirt... that's about as close as it gets to implying same-sex daemon --> same-sex orientation. However, the daemons are often not even the same species, so whether they're opposite sex seems nearly irrelevant. And the movie has Coulter's monkey manhandling Pantalaimon in an uninvited friendly way...
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12-10-2007, 06:11 PM | #63 (permalink) |
Winter is Coming
Location: The North
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I'm not even really sure it's implied in any meaningful way. The rule is that your daemon is of the opposite sex. There are a few unexplained exceptions to that, but nothing to categorically state why it happens.
The movie bothered me for the same reasons the movie version of Harry Potter 5 bothered me. They both neglected real character driven action in an effort to frantically hit all the exciting scenes from the book. It's not helped by the fact that this story got dumbed down an enormous amount from the book and that the world mythology (i.e. the rules governing the fantasy) is so complex. I liked seeing it and I'd like to see the other two, but I don't think it's very realistic to think they'll be made. It doesn't seem like this one is putting up the kind of numbers they'd need it to in order to finance the sequels. Which says nothing for the fact that the controversial elements related to religion and the church play much more prominently into the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass. I'm not sure how they'd get financing to make the stories without removing them but I'm not sure how they stories would work without leaving them in. Who knows. |
12-12-2007, 03:58 PM | #65 (permalink) |
Upright
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The whole movie felt really rushed to me. It was like they were showing exactly what they had to so the main exciting scenes would make sense to someone who hasn't read the book. It would be interesting to get such a person's reaction to the movie... I have a feeling they'd be a little confused.
Also, they messed up the ending!
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12-14-2007, 08:22 AM | #66 (permalink) |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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Extremely dissapointing. I don't even want to critique it, as it will prevent me from forgetting it. I will say, they managed to completely screw up one of the best opportunities in recent history to portray a steampunk setting in a live action movie. Jet dirigible, jet balloon and glowball horseless carriage for the motherfucking lose! >_<
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12-14-2007, 08:40 AM | #67 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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12-14-2007, 01:22 PM | #68 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
The glowball tech is most definitely a lose. Quote:
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Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions Last edited by 1010011010; 12-14-2007 at 01:38 PM.. |
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12-15-2007, 12:51 AM | #69 (permalink) | |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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You find the books method of hooking Lyra up with the Costas... Spoiler: OMG slavers have captured me...hurray, inexplicably I am saved by some people that I knew, one of whom was my nursemaid, who just happened to be in the area for totally unrelated reasons less coincidental than the movies version, where Spoiler: at least the costas were 'watching over her', as dumb as that sounded in the movie Also I have issues claiming the book relies less on deus ex machina based on how the book treated Lyra's second capture Spoiler: where the party of gyptians was ambushed in the snow, Lyra was randomly kidnapped, and the kidnappers, wth no knowledge of who she was, deliver her to exactly where she wants to go versus the movie version of Spoiler: her deliberately wandering in and then pretending to have gotten lost in the storm However, I do agree. Glowball tech for the MFing lose.
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12-17-2007, 10:28 PM | #70 (permalink) |
Insane
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I haven't seen the movie, but for those who have, and who don't see the anti-religious themes, that is because it has been taken out substantially. The backlash that is being heard from the Religious folk is because the books are unabashadly atheistic.
It is their concern that a movie marketed largely to children will influence many of those kids to read these books. I understand their irritation and applaud their speaking out. Surely everyone, of every age should be introduced to all sorts of philosophies, however this is a very back-handed way of doing so. The difference between this, and "Passion" is that, to my knowledge, "Passion" was not marketed towards children. |
12-18-2007, 12:38 AM | #71 (permalink) |
Winter is Coming
Location: The North
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The whole "this is a subversive way of getting our kids to be atheists" argument makes absolutely no sense to me. You could say EXACTLY the same thing about the Narnia movies. They downplay the Christian elements to make it more generally palatable and marketable and it's certainly marketed to kids who might read the meaningfully more Christian books. You didn't hear a whole lot of uproar about that. No surprise there.
There is no question that Pullman himself is an unabashed atheist and there is equally little question that the universe that "His Dark Materials" takes place in is not one where the Western monotheistic deity holds any weight (or any deity for that matter). Contrary to popular belief (if any of the people decrying the books read them, they'd know this), the books are not a many hundred page rant about how god and religion are stupid and don't exist and that we'd all be better off if we stopped believing in stupid stories. They are highly critical of dogmatic religious practice and blind faith and they are intensely concerned with the nature of the human soul and human spirituality. That being said, they can be easily read as entertaining and immersive literature. Reading the Chronicles of Narnia didn't make me into a devout Christian. My father read Narnia to me originally when I was about 6 from start to finish and I re-read them when I was about 10. Neither time did the reading have any impact on my spirituality. Likewise, kids who enjoyed The Golden Compass aren't going to suddenly become heretics simply by reading His Dark Materials. Now...it might make them ask difficult questions about their parents' faith and their faith, but I think we'd all agree that books that make you think and ask those questions are exactly how we define good literature. For people whose faith is blind and weak, I guess I can see the concern. For people who understand their faith and seek to help others understand it, there's nothing to worry about. I suppose all the people bitching about this fall into the first category, and there's not much to do about them in any situation anyway. Last edited by Frosstbyte; 12-18-2007 at 12:41 AM.. |
12-19-2007, 02:40 PM | #72 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
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12-23-2007, 09:54 PM | #73 (permalink) | |
Insane
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Anyways, I think it's a good thing that these churches / groups are letting the facts be known. I would certainly want to know about a theological backdrop that is anathema to my own beliefs before exposing my children to that. |
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12-23-2007, 11:59 PM | #74 (permalink) |
Winter is Coming
Location: The North
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You missed the point of my post. I'm saying that the media's influence on people (especially children) is greatly exaggerated. Just as Narnia had little to no effect on my belief system or that of the millions of others who have read it, His Dark Materials will be read by millions more who enjoy the story without subscribing to the ideology behind it. Being scared of a book because you think it'll turn your child atheist just makes no sense to me. It might happen once in a great while, but if it does, I guarantee it's nothing more than the straw that broke the camel's back, as opposed to a Pullman-inspired epiphany.
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01-09-2008, 12:11 PM | #75 (permalink) |
Location: Iceland
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Bringing this thread back to life because we finally went to see it (for free, thanks to ktspktsp's job) ... it only opened in Iceland on December 26th, and we just got back from Lebanon ourselves.
I had been trying to find the book versions in local libraries and bookstores for a while, but had no luck. I'm very intrigued by Pullman's ideas (as weakly presented as they may have been, in the movie)... but did feel like the story was a combination of LOTR, Harry Potter, and Star Wars (Lyra, I am your mother... [insert Nicole Kidman's breathing heavily, a la Darth Vader]). Not to mention the actors and voices were drawn heavily from LOTR and Star Wars as well... hmph. Seeing it in Iceland was funny in that we ARE in the cold and frozen north, and many of the names are almost directly Icelandic (they translated Iorek's name to "Jórekur Byrnisson" in the subtitles, which made the audience chuckle). And Ragnar Sturlusson, is that really his name in the book??? That name is 100% Icelandic, and nothing else... looks like Pullman drew just as heavily from the Norse world as Tolkien did for his books. Anyway, I found the ending of the movie came far too soon, and was extremely trite... I was disappointed by that, and the soundtrack as well (it seemed way overdone). I look forward to reading the books. Good thing I'm far closer to being an atheist than a Christian, so it won't tempt me away from my faith. hehe.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
01-09-2008, 12:25 PM | #76 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
I do have them as unabridged audio books read by Philip Pullman if you are interested..... Skogafoss and I listened to them as we drove the ring road in 2000. Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. Last edited by Cynthetiq; 01-09-2008 at 12:28 PM.. |
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01-09-2008, 01:23 PM | #77 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: The Danforth
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huh??? I read it all a couple of years ago and no... it doesn't have anything to do with genital circumcision. Nothing. it's all to do with the daemons. Quote:
Last edited by Leto; 01-09-2008 at 01:24 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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01-09-2008, 01:53 PM | #78 (permalink) | ||
Location: Iceland
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More strongly, though, I saw the removal of children's souls and "forcing" them to grow up faster as a possible commentary on/allusion to child slave labor and its consequences... that haunted look that Roger (was that his name?) had when Lyra found him, as if he'd been working in a carpet shop in India and had his humanity stripped from him by the horrible conditions. But of course, the author probably did not intend to communicate that... it was just my interpretation (takes me back to Ruskin's Stones of Venice and How the Other Half Lives, don't ask me why).
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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01-25-2008, 11:49 AM | #79 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Golden Compass takes 2 Oscar Nominations
Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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