SecretMethod70

Leto: they just finished Season 4.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Jetée

I'm so totally drained after watching the finale. I, too, thought that he ended up wrapping up the baddie too easily, (even though for the most part of the season, Dexter knew he was only a day or two away from completeing the deed on Arthur, and then spent an inordinate amount of time delaying it) but, unbelievable. Tragic. Just a roller coaster of emotions from beginning to end, then, nothing. It's hard to put into words the raw feeling you get for what is to become of this.

In my opinion, the next season of Dexter should be the last one, however they plan to write it. If anything, I'm completely pleased if the producers went ahead and said, "yeah, not feeling it anymore; we feel we've done the best we could. Anything more would just be a balk, a farce."



For some reason, I just feel this needs to be posted: Blood Boy

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

ratbastid

Seriously. I noticed I was a little sick to my stomach about halfway through. When he clipped the side mirror, Harry and I started getting Worried.

Jetée

About that: Harry, I mean.

I've delayed myself in re-watching past seasons up 'til now, but how and why did Dexter take on his father's ghost as a mentor again? I'm fairly sure that Harry was alive during the first season or so, but then again, I could be mistaken, and he was only alive so long as Dexter recalled the memories of them together. Now that I think about it deeper, I have the image of Dex and Deb as 'awkward teens' when Harry was interned at the hospital, critically, and when he ultimately died.

So, why is that we don't think of Dexter as even more deranged when he regularly converses between himself in the guise of his dear ol' deceased dad?

Maybe it's just a writing ploy to more explore the inner thoughts and struggles of Dexter, but it does get to be ridiculous at times.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

SecretMethod70

Harry was dead from the beginning of the series, but during the first season his appearances were in flashbacks as Dexter remembered his childhood. Harry remains as the symbol of Dexter's conscience, part of which includes "the code" Harry taught him as a child. Occasionally it seems overbearing but not enough to bother me. The fact is, it's a better option than having twice as many Dexter voice-overs.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Stare At The Sun

Watch Six Feet Under sometime.

You'll rethink your stance on the whole talking to dead people thing.

Willravel

Ghost Harry is the Dark Passenger personified.

Shauk

yeah but seriously I think this is the 1st time a tv show has made me feel a sense of "shock"

like, extreme empathy for his newfound plot twist, sadness and regret at the unfortunate event that will overshadow the entirety of the next season and every season after. It's one of those things that cannot be undone, there is no workaround.

Dexter met his equal. They gamed eachother perfectly. It's almost like Harry was trying to tell the audience "this is what you need to expect, this is going to happen" and then you let your guard down, and then BAM, RIGHT IN YOUR FACE, gotcha.


FUCK!

*shock*

that just happened?

Halx

Shauk shocked?

I agree, though. Wow. I was stunned. Spoiler: I am trying to put the sequence together just right: Dexter gets the idea to hide in the Mustang. Arthur kills Rita. Arthur picks up car. Right? That's the only thing that doesn't sit right with me. Man, I was really expecting a bigger meltdown from Dexter. I was expecting some serious peril, so this totally same in out of nowhere. Yikes. How will it play out for next season? Will Dexter be blamed?

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ratbastid

I wonder that too. I don't think he'll be blamed--it's a Trinity MO, entirely textbook. The question he's going to have to answer is: Spoiler: why Rita. As far as Metro Homicide is concerned, there's no connection between Arthur Mitchell and Dexter Morgan. Him suddenly having his wife become Trinity's last vic won't be mistaken for a coincidence.

I liked the last moments of the ep. I liked Dexter's shock, and I thought underplaying his reaction was exactly right. I thought having him Spoiler: have his attention on Harrison was exactly right.

Regarding Ghost Dad: Until the end of Season 2, Harry only appeared in flashbacks. The end of Season Two, Dex declared himself owner of the Code. He wasn't just playing out Harry's instructions anymore. At that point Harry became a Code-conscience rather than a hander-down of ironclad rules from the past. He's a nagging voice saying "This isn't what I taught you".

Jetée

The car pickup and eventual end scene have me perplexed out of my mind. I'm sure there could be a time interval in which this could have occurred, but it still seems unplausible to me. I'd like to go further in-depth with this, and how long it would take for someone to make a return trip from the Florida Keys to Miami again, but there still is no account for why there was a need to return at all. Safety in the morning, Arthur was accounted for in the afternoon into the night, and then, an invisible blow to the soul.


One thing I wanted to have clarified is why there was yet another child abduction in Miami after the cycle was complete. I guess, we as the audience, can now speculate that the Trinity killer was starting anew his vicious cycle, which ended in Miami after 30 years (and was supposed to end altogether because he had planned to kill himself thereafter) but he was 'saved'. So, he starts it again by scouting for a child, but Dexter interferes, and I'm not sure if Trinity is the sort of ritualist that cannot procede unless the first step been completed. Apparently not the case, as he had found a window of time (however miniscule, in my view) to find and murder the second victim in his four-part-family-tree-of-destruction. he broke his own rules in the cycle to accomplish this, (the single young woman) but to Miami Metro PD, this would look to be yet another instance of Trinity's hand (I doubt they'll find a jumper and a bludgeoning, but that's how it may open next season, them still looking for the subsequent victims in the chain).

I'm sure it'll go away in time, but there is still a pit in my stomach after watching that last episode unfold. Tragedy, man.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

tcp

I'm saving the last episode. I won't watch it until season 5 is ready to come out. That way, I won't be left disappointed.

m0rpheus

Just watched the finale last night (been busy)...

OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!

Now that I've had time to think about it I should have seen it coming but I was totally caught off guard. Spoiler: Afterall even though the boy got away the bathtub was next on his list.

I love John Lithgow.

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Jetée

regarding spoiler: that's what I thought, too, m0rpheus, but I didn't know what his selection process for that stage was (I had just assumed all the victims were single, young women, like his sister, and that attached women and mothers would be reserved for the "jumper phase", so even after seeing it, I still couldn't quite grasp the episode's reality.)

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

ratbastid

No, I mean, he clearly broke his pattern for the sole purpose of hitting Dex where it hurts.

This contains spoilers. If you're saving the last episode--first of all, ARE YOU NUTS??, and second, it's been weeks and weeks, and we've got to stop spoiler-tagging at some point, and I'm saying that point has come.

The whole season was pointed toward Dex's trying to resolve his imbalance between his dark and light lives. You had Harry being the voice of the passenger, pointing out the impossibility of keeping his family safe, given who he is. You had Rita seeing and loving the family-man Dex and being puzzled and disturbed by hints of his darkness. And you had Arthur who swung from the beacon of hope that the two could balance, to the symbol of utter hopelessness that it ever can.

In the end, Arthur (and Harry) are right. Nobody around Dexter will ever be safe from the danger his dark passenger puts them in. Not Harrison or the other kids, and especially not Rita. We've seen that play out in Debra's life from Season 1. She's been through complete hell because of who her brother is--and now she knows it (sort of), and she still stands beside him. That scene where she confronted him with his origins was tough, but extra interesting because Dex wasn't even aware of the tough part of it. He was worried she'd caught him. He totally missed the undertones Deb was communicating. "I love you", she says. "I'm so thankful," he replies.

That was another thing I LOVED about this season. They really played with Dex's sociopathy in some subtle and interesting ways. Several times he operated on a plainly surface level with people, while around him, profound emotional stuff was going on. Taking down Lundy's name from the open case board because Deb couldn't do it, for instance. It was REALLY nice writing.

Lasereth

I just started watching Dexter a couple of months ago. So I've seen the entire show, from S1 E1 to S4 E12 in 2 months, fresh on the mind.

My thoughts:

Season 1 was good. Enough to have me keep watching the show, but not as good as Lost (which IMO is the best show on TV). Season 2 was painful, but still good. Lila made me want to punch through the TV. I hated her character. Her face. Her fake accent. Her story. Her horse lips. When Dexter killed her I seriously cheered IRL. I thought season 2 actually had some good character development going on with Doakes, but after watching season 3 and 4, he didn't really fit the show and I'm glad he's gone.

Season 3: Miguel Prado was a very, very interesting character to add to the show, but I think they didn't apply him the best way that they could. And the finale was very boring...his kill should have been epic and it wasn't.

Season 4: by far the best season out of the entire show. John Lithgow was fucking sick in this season. I wasn't a fan of him before but now...holy moly. What an actor. I knew about 4 episodes in that we were gonna see some sick shit. It finally happened in the episode where Dexter is over at Thanksgiving. When they were saying what they were thankful for I was ready for Arthur to go apeshit. "Nobody said they were thankful for me." Good god I about blew a head gasket when he said that; I knew shit was gonna hit the fan soon after. Then Jonah wrecking shit in the house and Dexter almost killing Arthur...that was the best scene out of the entire show, period, no question. That was possibly the most dramatic moment I've ever seen on TV.

I LOVE how Dexter's dad is still in the show. They set him up with character with season 1 and 2, so that later on he fits perfectly into Dexter's subconscious. He adds lots to the show IMO. I love how Dexter will screw up and his dad will be off to the side shaking his head like "I taught you better than this." I hope he stays.

Rita dying was the ultimate end to what had to happen to Dexter. He can't be a serial killer and get away unharmed. He can't live with innocent people and have them stay out of his business. When you're a serial killer you have dangerous baggage and it finally showed this season more than any other.

I fucking hated Rita's character in season 1 and 2, but she got hot in season 3 and 4, so I didn't mind looking at her, but she was still annoying. Not nearly as much as season 1 and 2 though. I guess I will sorta miss her character but not as much as others in this thread. I think her death was what the show needed. Season after season Dexter gets off scotch free after killing 20 people. When was it gonna catch up to him? Now.

BTW I hope Lithgow wins the golden globe. Good god he deserves it. Absolutely phenomenal, scary, devastating performance by him. Every time he lost it and called a woman a cunt or started saying "you made me do it" to his victims I was grinning on the inside because I was witnessing an amazing performance. Only he could pull off something so fucked up.

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ratbastid

Completely agree re Lithgow. I remember him being a scary-good actor, in his days before 3rd Rock from the Sun. Somehow I forgot about that and turned him mentally into a sitcom comedian. But watch The World According to Garp and ESPECIALLY Raising Cain for some insight into the man's sheer talent. I don't think anybody else in the world could have pulled off Cain.

pan6467

I recently got hornswaggled into watching Dexter (wife would watch Monk, I'd have to watch Dexter). and I like it. We're finishing up season 2 and I really like Keith Carradine's character, just wish he was staying. (Although I hear he is back in season 4.)

I like the way the show builds an entire season. Doakes was a necessary evil and I'm going to miss him. I think it was cool to have Dexter have someone on the force be suspicious and watching him... it made a great cat and mouse game.

Hearing about Rita's death, it really had to happen. This opens a lot of doors for Dexter. Especially, when you consider his son was found in a pool of her blood and had watched it. As his son grows he'll have a special bond there.

Is it possible they will bring back JoBeth Williams next season to fight Dexter for custody...

Since they are married in real life, is there ever the possibility that Dexter and Debra get together (may seem sick but there is no biological bond there.)

The show has me totally hooked. It's not Monk but it is in my top 10 favorite shows.



Lithgow was also excellent as the psycho in Ricochet, was wonderful in Terms of Endearment... even 3rd Rock he was excellent in. Most actors will tell you it is easier to portray dark evil characters than to do comedy, because we all have pretty much the sense of wrong and right... whereas with Comedy you have to rely solely on timing and hope it hits the mark. Lithgow is excellent at both.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ratbastid

Very true, but it's easy to forget that when you're watching somebody be a clown week after week.

Also, there are PLENTY of comedians who could never be serious actors. Can you imagine Seinfeld trying to play a straight role? He could barely manage to play himself!

pan6467

The same was said about Jerry Lewis but he has some acclaimed serious roles, as did Jack Lemmon, even Charlie Chaplin.

Seinfeld is a stand-up, stand-up comedians do not always equal actors. Different art form. Kinison could never have been an actor, for instance.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Strange Famous

It is utterly revolting in my opinion.

Dexter thinks of himself as some kind of vigilante, but has in fact murdered women

When they get to the show where he is hanged by the neck until dead I'll watch it.

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SecretMethod70

Well first of all, very few people who watch Dexter think he's a model citizen. That's what makes the show great: he's deeply flawed, yet they manage to show the humanity in his character as well.

Second of all, it's not like he killed innocent women indiscriminately. The (few) women he has killed in the series have been guilty of killing other people. For example, the most recent woman Dexter killed was guilty of murdering her husband and young daughter.

I can understand not liking a series which seems to glorify a serial killer. I disagree, and I think that view fails to recognize the gray areas that are part of being human and living in this world, but nonetheless I understand the appeal of such a view. On the other hand, I don't understand why it makes a difference whether the unpunished murderer Dexter kills is a woman or a man.

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guy44

Are you crazy? She's incredibly hot. Plus, the actress actually is English. Have you ever seen her show Hustle? It's like Oceans 11, but better, every episode. And she's really good in it.

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Strange Famous

If you cannot tell the difference between this villian killing a man or murdering a woman I dont know what to say.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Lasereth

Durpadurp don't kill women!!!!! Women are so good! Never hit women! Men who hit women will rot in hell!!!!!!!!!

The women Dexter kill are rotten bastards who are murderers themselves. And no, Dexter, DOESN'T think he's a vigilante if you've seen the show.

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

Yeah, one victim has a penis and one has a vagina

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SecretMethod70

To quote the great scholar and intellectual Martin Gore, "People are People."

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Jetée

I much prefer the 'confidence' shows of Leverage and Burn Notice when comparing it Hustle, but they all have their appeal. I believe her name is Jaime Murray (I wiki'd it, and was brought to the tennis player; spelling is fixed), and her character was tailor-made to build an antagonist relationship to the atomsphere surrounding Dexter's teetering relationship with Rita and the kids, as well as the latent humanity within himself, and she performed it perfectly, eventually becmong a very dangerous thorn in Dex's side.

one-shot toward SF:
I just somewhat noticed that there is somehow always a 'token female killing' in every season of Dexter, but I'm not deluded enough to think that this is by design. Woman can be as evil and destructive as men, but they're (the writers) are playing with unspoken statistics, and not everyone who is deemed a 'favorable kill' can be male. This should not even be a discussion point.

Either the premise of the series and the character struggles within it's universe appeals to you, or it doesn't; not much more to it. There is no need to describe why you don't partake in its viewership, or offer off-handed and non-topical comments about why a woman is a much more delicate creature than man, therefore should never, ever be disrespected, maimed, or treated harshly in fiction or in reality. They are obviously onn some sort of invisible pedestal, and every single one of us writers and producers and directors should just inherently know this. It's quite a ludicrous notion to opine, I'd assess.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Strange Famous

Dexter is a torturer, a sadist, a wild beast. There is not a jot of humanity in him.

The difference between men and women is not limited to the biology. There is a big difference between two monsters fighting and one being killed,to a battered wifeacting out of self defence and compound abuse (to quote the example of the policewoman this disgraced animal Dexter butchered)

He will be well hanged by the neck until dead. There is not enough mercy in this world to even bury this foul creature with respect. The fire is all his corpse deserves.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

SecretMethod70

SF: Either you watch the show or you don't. If you do, you certainly didn't pay very close attention. If you don't, then I wonder why you feel the need to assume the policewoman was battered. It was made very clear that she felt figuratively smothered by her family and felt the only way out was to kill them. She was not abused in any way whatsoever.

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

ratbastid

He would probably agree with that second sentence, especially after the resolution of the last season.

As for the first sentence... I don't think you've watched the show. He's calculating and efficient, and bent on demonstrating to his victims the error of their ways before ending them. He has no particular interest in people's pain. And he never (intentionally) kills anyone innocent.

By the way, innocence cannot be determined by the ownership of a uterus. If it could, the legal system would move much more quickly.

pan6467

I felt like SF. I did not in any way want to watch a tv show about a seriel killer and how it glorified his kills.

But there is so much more than that I found.

People who say Dexter has no guilt or feelings are wrong. I think in the 2 seasons I have seen he does. He just doesn't own to them.

I find it very interesting to see him battle himself, such as framing an innocent Doakes or his relationships with his sister and Rita.

There is so much depth to the character that it is fun to watch this battle in himself. I truly feel if the show were to lose that, I couldn't watch it.

Plus, the other characters are immensely fun to watch.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ratbastid

That nails it, pan. It's Dex's internal tension--which he's largely oblivious to or in denial about--that propels the show.

I mean, the guy's insane. He has basically no emotional life at all, or at least, he'd tell you that. You can't expect a whole lot of introspection. He is the kind of animal that he is, with the kind of itches he has to scratch, and that's that. He's wrapped it in a shell of justice, is all. His efforts to be "good"--even to understand what "good" means, beyond simply following the Code and not getting caught--is what makes him the fascinating character he is.

Jetée

Much as it is in my inherent nature (whether forced or not) I've come to finally find the free hour or two last night to catch up to watch this newest (and last) season premiere of Dexter.

I really don't know if there is much to say about how the new season unfolded, and what transpired in episode one, other than it is a catch-up story and is merely a drab-door, placeholder, story-setting episode into what this final season holds in store. There wasn't much to be said of it as I watched the episode, and still, I can barely think up talking points here, other than how Detective Quinn seems to be taking over the role of the internal (tangible) antagonist to Dexter, which was once occupied by Sergeant Doakes in seasons 1 and 2.

Throughout the story, it was just awkwardness and non-feeling, lack of emotions, and maybe I'm over-analysing it here, but very evident sub-par acting performances by much of the main family of cast (perhaps it was intentionally written this way - to be 'awkward' ; devoid of feeling, comprehension as a grieving exposition of what occured in last season's finale).

And a last mention that may only exclusively pertain to me: what happened to half of the cast looking so gaunt? (It looks as though Dexter, Deb and Quinn lost ten pounds each, amongst others but these are the most noticeable, and its most evident in their shallow and sullen faces.)

I'll be scheduling a viewing of episode two sometime later tonight, and then after that, I believe I'll have caught up.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Lasereth

Well Dexter has cancer IRL so that's his excuse.

I felt the first and second episodes were oddly devoid of any feeling as well. The explaining to the kids what happened scene could have been much more emotional.

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Jetée

I thought he (Michael C. Hall) beat / avoided the most serious bout of his cancer. (not entirely a "scare", but it was identified, and he underwent treatment to put it into remission; now that I look it up, yeah, he's supposedly cancer-free now.) I'm not sure of the timetable between his treatment and the actual next filming of this season's episodes, but you might be right in why there is a noticable difference in appearance, both between him and Deb (his real-life wife).

Still doesn't quite explain why the actor that plays Quinn now looks like an awkward teenager. Not sure if it's a weight loss issue, workout physique or there's just something I'm remembering wrong, but it looks as though if there was ever an in-real-life case of horizontal minimalization (think of squeezing a banana / marshmallow in your hand) then Quinn could be a good modern-day representative of such a ridiculous occurrence. I'm not sure why I'm dwelling on this, but it is quite a bit distracting to the guy that notices these minute differences ('that guy' is me, and I'm paid to notice things, so maybe that's my gripe).

And I was almost excited to see Dexter leave his family, career, life behind to start anew, and "on the lam" (sp?). Wouldn't have been as fun or engaging, but it could have been an interesting path for this arc to take, whereas Dexter is missing, and the FBI, his friends and co-workers are left to track him, possibly uncovering what has been alongside them (though hidden) all along - who Dexter truly is.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

noodle

He was treated successfully for Hodgkins and losta lot of weight. His wife did, too. Hodgkins is usually pretty treatable, but it's still cancer. Quinn, however, appears to have spent the summer at the Jersey Shore if his makeup says anything.
This season is interesting to say the least. I'm interested to see where Angel and Laguerta go and what's going to happen with Cody and Astor.

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Jove

Facebook spoiled the ending by posting pictures of the last scene so I was a bit shocked to find out without watching season 4, which I just completed. Anyways, I am now afraid of Jon Lithgow due to his performance in this show.

docbungle

Lol, relax, SF. At least he's not a UFC fighter.

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SecretMethod70

Jetée: Got a source for your claim that this is Dexter's final season? Your post is the first I've heard that.

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

worried_monk

I loved the woman barrell murderer - the guy who collected the dead animals. Great character, you were afraid of him because you knew he noticed details. That was amazing writing. Show is amazingly wirtten in general. A lot of writers coudl learn a lot of stuff from that.