Tamerlain

Ah yes, that's right. I watched that part again. That makes his Red Sox news more important since he would have (most likely) come to the island with people who hadn't been there before. So perhaps that's where his interest in baseball comes from.

I don't have season 2 on my computer and I'm at school so I can't check, so I might get this wrong. The only time Ben seemed to be caught off guard was when Anna-Lucia came back from looking for his air balloon and had ID that proved he wasn't who he said he was. If I remember correctly there was supposed to be an ambush there? I agree that Ben always seems to be 3 steps ahead of the Lost, but I think it will be his undoing at some point.

-Tamerlain

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fresnelly

When the Others have their undoing, say, sometime around the season finale , I'll bet it will have less to do with underestimating the Lost, than overestimating their own. The Lost have been behaving like wounded animals, lashing out violently, acting on base human instinct, while the Others are disciplined and believe themselves to be enlightened in some way. In just about every confrontation between the two groups, the Others make some offer based on trust, and the Lost fight back single mindedly. Sun shooting the Woman on the boat is the latest drastic example.

I believe Ben and Juliette are psychiatrists or psychcologists by training, who hope to save the Lost from themselves, by bringing them around to, well, their philosophy hasn't been revealed just yet, but clearly they want them to give in and listen.

And yet, we've seen hints of discord among their group, and the cracks are beginning to show. I think that over the course of this season, we'll see their intellectual discipline break down under the strain, and they'll begin to act more like the feral Lost. The Lost will drag them down, rather than be dragged up.

Here's a wild prediction: By the end of this season, (setting up the next) the two groups will have completely broken apart and formed new alliances - One mixed tribe of Others and Lost opposing the other. I see Ben and Jack leading one with Sawyer and Juliette leading the second. Egads, how can Kate choose?!? Sun Vs. Jin! Eko vs. Sayeed! We can even have another catastrophic sci-fi machina as either the catalyst or endgame. The mind boggles.

Oh, man I can't remember the last TV show to get me speculating like this. What a great show!

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Grasshopper Green

Interesting theory, fresnelly, and I could totally see that happening

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Moskie

Fun analysis on this last episode guys, keep it coming.

I've got a question, though... my memory is hazy, but weren't we led to believe that Sun was planning to meet her English teacher in Sydney, but decided at the last moment to stay with Jin? If I remember right, it seemed pretty clear that the teacher (or his driver or something) was all ready to meet her, and there was no indication that he had died. I liked the flashback of this past epsiode, but it seems like a stretch for it to jive with the previous flashbacks.

Sun & Jin have long had been the subjects of my favorite flashbacks, so I'm just trying to get their stories straight.

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ratbastid

I think this week was the first hint we've had that the English teacher wanted to run away with her. This was the first week we've really had their affair confirmed out loud--it was hinted with a look in an the episode where she revealed her pregnancy, but this was the first time they were actually in bed together.

The impression I always got was that she was going to leave Jinn in Sydney and start a life on her own. Given that her lover was dead by the time they left for the Sydney-LA trip, I think that probably was her plan.

TexanAvenger

Desmond either saw the, or came from the future...

And then came back naked, like the Terminator.

Jove

I agree, but after the massive implosion of the hatch, did Demsond get taken into the future by the electromagnetic explosion or can he now predict the future because of what he did in the hatch by turning the switch releasing the electromagnetic energy, which then threw out the trio into the wild un-harmed for a brief moment?

fresnelly

I'm guessing his talent will be fleeting. It would be too convenient otherwise. I like that Hurley is effected by this and I look forward to more of him and Desmond interacting.

Tonights episode was great: Lots of action, an intriguing flashback, and it caught us up on some of the other main characters. The Polar Bear was a bonus.

In Canada, Lost is broadcast on two channels: ABC and CTV, which adds its own Canadian commercials and promos. Interstingly, each has different previews for next week's episodes.

While the ABC promo showed Ben torturing Sawer and questioning Kate's feelings for him, here's what the CTV promo had:

Kate has escaped and is trying to free Sawyer from his cage. He is pleading with her to leave him and run. (Time is running out!) Then we see Ben leading Sawyer up a hill on the island because he wants to show him something. Whatever it is, Sawyer looks gobsmacked. Honolulu perhaps?

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ratbastid

Badass Locke is back!

One of the themes the producers were exploring last year is the notion that the hatch changes people--they get down there and they're not who they were outside. It's good to see Locke getting his groove back after the implosion.

Daoust

I was not in love with last nights episode. As far as I am concerned, the whole polar bear story line is trash because it makes the story seem fake, and cheesy. I didn't even care for Lockes backstory. I didn't buy into it. I know there's gonna be a bunch more episodes like this one bc they can't spent the whole of season iii with the others....

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ratbastid

But now we know where the bears came from--they're ex-Dharma, from the cage Sawyer's now in.

And geez, the other mysteries that got brought up! The dumptruck in the bear's cave! Desmond can see the future (or something)!

Daoust

I should know this, but what was with the dumptruck in the bears cave? I missed the relevance of that.

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ratbastid

Far as I know, we've never seen it before.

Grasshopper Green

I liked the episode. It was intriguing, I liked the backstory (although I have a question...Locke says bad things happen to those that hang out with him...does he have further contact with the cop, or was the bad things that happen the fact that the pot business went up in flames), and it was good to see Locke as a take charge guy again. Next week's episode looks like it's going to be a good one too.

I must have missed the thing about Desmond seeing the future.. can anyone refresh my memory?

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Formerly Medusa

Frosstbyte

When Hurley runs into Desmond in the forest, Hurley says that the Others have Jack, Kate and Sawyer but that they (the Losties) are not supposed to go finding them. Desmond responds that Locke already has and talked about it in his speech. Hurley is totally confused and just stares at Desmond, so Desmond backtracks, saying something about how he must be confused or mixed up.

At the very end of the episode, we see Locke making the speech while Hurley looks on and Desmond throws rocks into the ocean in the background.

Again, I dislike that in this season they're having to focus on just one aspect of the story at a time instead of having them woven together, but I have to admit I don't see a very effective alternative way of doing it. That being said, I love badass Locke, even if the flashback was not one of the best. Can't wait to see the excitement in store next week. That looks like it's shaping up to be a killer episode.

Tamerlain

Pretty good episode. I wonder at what point in his past Locke becomes crippled? I'm kind of surprised that it's been this long and we haven't found that out.

Did anyone else catch in the beginning that when Locke picks up the Jesus stick, he isn't wearing a backpack, but when they switch shots and show his face he has straps on his shoulders? That's the first continuity error I've noticed since I started watching.

Not to state the obvious, but I think Locke will have an important role to play in rescuing Jack, Sawyer and Kate from the Others because he won't be intimidated by them. He takes his cues from the island itself (so he believes) so the games the Others play won't have much effect on him. Especially now that he is rounding back into his old form.

-Tamerlain

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lindalove

Is anyone else pissed that we're only going to get six episodes and then we have to wait until 2007?

fresnelly

The break is a bit of a drag, but I bet the Sixth episode is going to be a real corker. It'll be like having an extra season finale and premier.

Also: No reruns.

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Moskie

I didn't see it so much as Desmond knowing the future... but instead Desmond being aware of some sort of 'script' that each of the Losties is playing into, without them knowing it.

Something along the lines of the psychological experiments driving the Losties to do some particular actions; in Locke's case, giving that speech. And Desmond has some (new?) insider information on it. Maybe?

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Jove

Sawyer was owned by the best con-artist's around, The Others. Yet Benjamin and crew do not have the best medical supplies around to help save one of their own. And one of the others, possibly Ben, might have a tumor in his spine, oh NOES!

Frosstbyte

While it may have worked on Sawyer, it worked for all of no seconds on me, since pacemakers aren't installed with needles. They're installed with open heart surgery. It's also a relatively major surgery and a fairly specialized device. I bought that the Others have some cool stuff we didn't know about, but for them either to have a pacemaker or to have a doctor capable of installing one was unlikely. Also, Ben has seemed to be a very calculating individual, though not a cruel one. It would take a devastatingly cruel person to install a pacemaker in someone that would shut off if it hit 140. If you've ever worked out, you probably know how fast you get to 140. That's pretty low. When I run I'm usually at 170-180.

It was interesting to watch Sawyer get played, though. We have not seen him so vulnerable before, and the Kate/Sawyer interaction when get got in/out of the cage was just delightful. So even though I didn't buy the trick, I'm happy with out they worked it. And I readily concede that, had I been in his place, I would've bought it, too.

The tumor and the failed attempt to save Cole's life are definitely an interesting twist. I really have a hard time buying the Other's repeated assertions that they're not violent and aren't killers and that the Losties started the war by killing Cole. They kidnapped people in the night. Did things to a pregnant woman against her will. They are armed and threaten violence. They seem to be very good at getting inside heads, and at the same time they fail to recognize that the way they've acted would make all but the stupidest or most committed pacifist respond hostilely, if only out of self defense.

I WANT to believe that the Others know something or some truth or have some great philosophy that will "save" the Losties. I really do. But...they definitely do not have as tight a grip on themselves and the islands as they think they do.

Desmond's clairvoyance continues to be tantalizing. Guess we'll have to see where it goes. Overall, another really solid episode.

Grasshopper Green

I loved the episode.

A few observations...as Frosstbyte mentioned, it does seem that Desmond is seeing the future...I wonder if this is going to cause problems among the other survivors. It seemed as if Charlie was startled after the lightning struck..and not because of the strike either.

If Sawyer and Kate are really on another island, then that really wouldn't explain the polar bears...unless the Others are lying...or had them shipped over...which wouldn't make any sense (to me, anyway). And if Desmond was right about John "saving" the kidnappees...how in hell is he going to get to the other island?

BTW, Frosst...I don't know if it was just me, but when Sawyer removed his dressing, it looked like it was covering a cut...was it just smeared blood, or did they really cut him to make him think that they inserted the pacemaker?

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Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

Polar bears can swim. I don't have a problem with that part.

The real puzzle is: some time between Seasons 2 and 3, Kate, Jack and Sawyer traveled between two different islands. How did they do that without knowing it? They didn't take the boat--Michael and Walt chugged off in that sucker, leaving the Others and the captured Losties on foot. So how'd they walk to the second island?

The answer is obvious: the Hydra station connects the two islands. Still, you'd think they would have gotten suspicious, walking through a long tunnel.

I don't remember Des saying that Locke was going to save them. I think he said that Locke said he was going to save them. In his speech.

Tamerlain

I totally agree. I'm getting pretty tired of the "you just have to trust us, we know what's best for you... but stay in this cage/cell while we decide how much to tell you" attitude the Others are taking. If the Others really wanted to help the Lost, they would be doing so already.

I think this was the best episode of the (albeit early) season. The flashback was excellent - as a matter of fact this season they've all been good. Some of the flashbacks last season weren't as intriguing as these ones have been.

The only disappointment I had was that we didn't see any of Sayid, Sun or Jin. But I guess that's to be expected with so many more storylines.

-Tamerlain

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Moskie

Good call on that. Now I'm trying to figure out what else might be on this separate island that we've encountered in the past...

Something else that bugged me was Kate's and Sawyer's ignorance to the fact that they were being watched. First off, it's obviously way too conveinant for them to be left alone in those cages within earshot of each other. Secondly, how else would Ben have known Sawyer's plan to shock him ahead of time? So it seemed prettly clear they're being watched, and probably listened in on. Yet Kate still does her escape attempt thing, and they discuss things openly, as if it's all in private.

And with Desmond's clairvoyance, I'm wondering if the writers are using this as a way to explore the same ideas they were using with Walt's abilities. I think Walt (and Michael) were written out because the actor playing Walt was growing up too fast for the role, so he had to go... but they had plenty of unfinished business as to what was going on with his strange powers...

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Grasshopper Green

Another interesting thing I noted:

The island seems to heal people...Rose's cancer, Locke's legs, Jin's fertility problem (as far as know)...so I just find it interesting that an Other has a tumor. Does it only help people who are new to the island? Or perhaps the survivor's island is the only one that heals, and the other doesn't? Maybe the electromagnetic ...thing...going on with the button had something to do with it, but the tumor would have had to grow awful fast if that was the case.

Clarification for my last post: In respect to Desmond's clairvoyance about Locke helping, I was also thinking about Locke's hallucination with Boone, and Boone telling him he can't help Jack, Kate, and Sawyer...yet....and kind of melded the two ideas into one. I should have been more specific and clear

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Formerly Medusa

ubertuber

I also thought it was interesting that Juliette is a fertility doctor. That seems like something that would be difficult to study if you spent your entire life on that island, as Ben (I think) said he did.

If she really is a fertility doctor, to me that would suggest that she was placed there for some sort of specific reason - i.e. fertility. That priority may end up being an interesting clue. I wonder if there is an OB/GYN somewhere?

If the Others are some sort of research outpost, it is awfully strange to staff it with a fertility doctor and no other doctors.

I also doubt the Alcatraz references were meaningless.

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fresnelly

Bingo.

Though my earlier prediction of an all out Lord of the Flies scenario is a bit far fetched, I do think we're seeing the first cracks in the Others' compact. They're doing a miserable job containing the Lost, and as Ben's tumour may prove, they're not doing a great job tapping into the Island's powers either. Add in a strengthening Jack, a siege by Locke, maybe some surprise outside force, and its bye, bye to the Others' dominance.

I can't wait to see what their breakdown exposes.

Given the apparent restorative powers of the Island, I'm not surprised that the Others have no trauma Doctors or serious emergency equipment. Death and illness must be rare indeed. Moreover, you can imagine how the Island's effects on fetal and childhood development are of interest.

Of course, it speaks to the Others' collective arrogance, as much as the Island effect.

My wild prediction for the week? Ben's tumour is another Con!!

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Jove

Comrades, we have a fallen lostie. Let us all remember our good Nigerian drug smuggling-priest friend, Mr. Eko. He will be missed on the island. Eko fought bravely on nuermous occassions against the black smoke mist monster, but after being mauled by a polar bear, he did not have the strength to fight back against a large smoke mist fist of fury.
--
In other news, Juliette seems to like Jack and now we know Benjamin has a large tumor on his spine. The mini season finale looks quite exciting.

ratbastid

He faced the smoke monster last season... I guess between the explosion and wrestling the bear, he must not have had the wherewithal for a smoke monster staredown!

ChrisJericho

In the previews when it said someone was going to die, I assumed it was going to be one of the new couple they introduced recently. But as of late, Eko's character had been kind of stagnating, so when he died I wasn't that disappointed.

If I were Jack I wouldn't be trusting Juliette's secret message...

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Frosstbyte

Yeah, the Ben/Juliette/Jack triad is getting VERY interesting. Next week should be a killer episode. I'm very eager to see what happens.

Mondak

This is doublethink. "oh well our plan is busted - will you save my life?"

The plan is Juliette's. If Jack agrees to do it - they will know not to operate. If he says he can't do it, they will operate.

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ratbastid

Really? Hunh! You think the whole thing is a game they're running on Jack? What do you think they're trying to get from him? How does tempting him to deliberately botch a surgery and kill Ben help them? I don't quite see it.

The only tangible thing we've seen to make me think otherwise is the opening moments of the season--Juliette in the mirror, Juliette at the book club.

ChrisJericho

That's a very good theory Mondak! That is probably the only way to ensure that if Jack does indeed agree to do the surgery, that he isn't going to kill Ben on purpose.

Also, a thought that keeps occurring to me, is that why are the Others and the Lost even fighting? I am aware this situation is analogous to many modern day conflicts, in which we are led to believe that our enemies are drastically different than ourselves, when in reality we share many of the same perspectives.

Of course at this point, the Lost have killed multiple Others, so that may throw a monkey wrench in any peace talks. But really, all we have seen the Others do in term of unprovoked violence, is that one early mole that was in anna lucia's group who broke the neck of that one irritating survivor. All the other deaths (Boone, Boone's sister, Eko, the two others that eko killed, the peace corp mole, anna lucia, the blond chick, the high school science teacher, the wife of sawyer's prison boss) have been committed by either the Lost or the Island. Though I'm sure I probably forgot some deaths, but if the Others had just been up front with the Lost many of these deaths could have been prevented. Can't we all just get along?

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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Moskie

there's also the children they abducted from Anna Lucia's group right after they got there. and they abducted Claire when she was pregnant. they've done nothing to make anyone believe that they're benevolent. it's getting pretty absurd, actually. the show kinda wants us to believe that the Others have good intentions underneath everything, but it'll take a ton of 'splainin to cover everything they've done. a little honesty would go a long way... but i guess that's where the drama and mystery comes from, at the cost of making sense.

And hopefully Jack is smart enough to realize the "double think" plan... then there's nothing to prevent him from telling Juliette that he won't do it, then he could actually kill Ben on his own. That is, if this whole surgery thing isn't a ruse itself. Blah, who knows. The others must be doing all this for more than just creating a convoluted way to get Jack to operate on Ben.

Oh, and I'll miss Eko. I liked him.

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mrklixx

Well, they kidnapped the "tailes" children, They Kidnapped Claire. One of the others said they were going to kill Claire after the delivered her baby. They very nearly killed Charlie. And they shot Sawyer. So they are in no way all "candy and roses", and for all of their pseudo-psychology, they should know that the very nature of violence is escelation.


Edited to add- Guess I shouldn't take so long to post next time.

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ChrisJericho

They kidnapped the kids, but we don't know what happened to them. Maybe they didn't want to expose the children to their social experiment and are giving them twinkies and lolli-pops in a bunker somewhere.

And Sawyer was about to pull a gun on the Others in the boat, so they must have seen shooting sawyer as an act of self defense.

Uh oh, I've become an "Others" advocate !!

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NCB

It doesnt look like we'll see anything before the end of the fall season, but I would like to see what became of Michael and Walt.

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Tamerlain

Well, let's see. Eko's death was kind of disappointing, I liked his character. Juliet is turning out to be quite a bit more manipulative than we first thought. I wouldn't trust her or Ben, so what does Jack do now...

There's no way he would agree to do the surgery and then botch it. Besides the hippocratic oath, he's not that kind of person.

Juliet obviously wants control over the group from Ben, for what reason and to what end we don't know. It's pretty safe to assume that Ben did something to her in the past - he must have been off the island when hell, women and scorning were discussed.

Who was the eye-patch guy!?

-Tamerlain

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