Frustrated rant, maybe some questions - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sillygirl · 01-26-2005, 11:57 AM

Ok, this might get kinda long.

When I was younger I was a chubby girl. I lost a bunch of weight, but that was never good enough for me. I've always had to work three times as hard and watch what I eat more than anyone I know. Once I got out of high school, my eating habits didn't change, but I was no longer able to spend three hours or so working out every day. I ended up gaining some weight, and when I started birth control it didn't help. I've struggled with it for the past couple years, and just again started being able to lose some. It just seems that as soon as I lose weight, I can keep it off as long as I spend all my free time exercising. I'm an active person, I don't have a sit down job at ALL, as a matter of fact I chase after kids all day at work. I don't eat junk food, I try to drink lots of water, and I don't really drink too much alcohol anymore. I've just recently started REALLY trying to lose weight again, and I'm just really frustrated right now.

Does anyone else struggle this much?

Sweetpea · 01-26-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillygirl

I don't eat junk food, I try to drink lots of water, and I don't really drink too much alcohol anymore. I've just recently started REALLY trying to lose weight again, and I'm just really frustrated right now.

Does anyone else struggle this much?

I don't think you're alone SillyGirl . . . Everyone stuggles with weight . . . metabolism is a tough thing . . .
I tried for 5 years to slim down (i weighted 175lbs, i'm 5'5"), just as you are doing, i did everything right, worked out for half hour every day and dieted all the time and the scale wasn't budging, i was so frustrated just as you are right now . . .
Then i tried a nurition program that focuses on moderation and also cuts out "processed foods" like white flour . . . i started eating alot like a French woman does, small portions, no processed foods, drinking wine and focused on walking alot . . . and now a year and a half later i wiegh a petite 122lbs and feel the healthiest i have in years and i didn't have to kill myself to get here . . . 3 of my family members have also tried this program and have had similar sucess.
So, my point is, it's not that you aren't doing everything right Sillygirl, it's just you might not have found the right nurtrition program for your specific body and metobolism . . . there is a really good book out there now that you might enjoy called "French Woman Don't Get Fat" by Mirelle Guiliano.

anyway, keep trying . . . it's tough, i've been there and i know it's hard to stick to it!!!

you can Rant to us girls Anytime sillygirl!!! That's what we're here for

sweetpea

Manuel Hong · 01-26-2005, 12:56 PM

I work in complimentary health care and nutrition plays a big part in my treatments. 'Pea is right...white flour and processed foods are the worst thing going along with the so-called "heart healthy" margarines. Olive oil and organic butter should be the only fats you use. Check out the book Healing With Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford, especially the section: Dietary Transition and Weight Loss. To replace bread try the sprouted grain breads available in the natural food section of your grocery store. I get Alvarado Street brand, there's also Food For Life Eziekiel bread, I'm not sure what brands are available in your area... Sprouted grains are more easily digested because the sprouting process activates enzymes in the grain and deactivates enzyme inhibitors which adversely affect your ability to digest. Also, in some people, raw foods put a strain on weak digestive systems, this is why some people complain that all they eat is salad and they can't lose weight. It's like putting a head of lettuce in a pot of cold water...nothing happens. If you tend to have loose stools, you may be one of those people. PM me if you want more details or a professional referral.

ngdawg · 01-26-2005, 12:58 PM

If you're continuously overweight without overeating and doing everything proper is not working for you, see your doctor. You may have polycystic(sp) ovarian disease or underactive thyroid. Being unable to lose weight is just one symptom. Another symptom of the ovarian disorder is facial hair, while one for the thyroid is feeling tired all the time. Good luck!
PS. I lost 45 lbs through Weight Watchers in 6 months and except for a few lbs up and down have kept it off since 1999, but I didn't have a weight issue growing up. It is, however, an excellent program using balanced nutrition and counseling.

nickynicole · 01-26-2005, 03:45 PM

Eating healthy and being active and drinking water, just generally taking care of yourself, should be something to make you smile. Your body may not look like you hoped, but you are making healthy choices that positively affect things besides your weight, and that's awesome.

I second the seeing the doctor thing. Even if nothing is wrong, you may be able to consult with a professional on the best weight loss plan for you.

la petite moi · 01-26-2005, 04:15 PM

sillygirl, if you need proof of how good sweetpea looks, take a look at her new exhibition thread! WOW- I would have never thought she weighed 175!

Anyway, my birth control shot is starting to make me gain weight, and exercise causes me painful head/joint aches. Unfortunately, I weigh 122 now, but I'm 5'3". My only advice is to keep yourself encouraged by not getting down on yourself too hard. Everyone is attractive, even if they are overweight- you just have to have self-confidence. Oh, and whatever you do, don't go on a diet where you soley eat one type of food- it's bad for your health, and as soon as you drop the weight, you'll just gain it all back. (You probably knew that, but I just thought I should reiterate it.)

A question I have: What exactly are processed foods? (Gee, don't I feel dumb.)

Manuel Hong · 01-26-2005, 04:19 PM

ALL women are beautiful. The Goddess made us that way.

Manuel Hong · 01-26-2005, 04:22 PM

proccessed food is basically anything premade and sold in a box or bag. Just about everything in the grocery store found up and down the aisles. Try to shop around the perimeter of the store.

la petite moi · 01-26-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Hong

proccessed food is basically anything premade and sold in a box or bag. Just about everything in the grocery store found up and down the aisles. Try to shop around the perimeter of the store.

How about those big pre-chopped bags of salad?

Manuel Hong · 01-26-2005, 04:41 PM

usually washed in a bleach solution...and expensive!!

la petite moi · 01-26-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Hong

usually washed in a bleach solution...and expensive!!

It's expensive, but when you're on the go...

Anyway, how does the bleach affect the content? I typically like the spinach packages.

Manuel Hong · 01-26-2005, 05:11 PM

I think we've hijacked. sorry.
Yeah, I do the spinach from time to time myself. Hey, it ain't rice a roni, it's veggies and veggies in bleach is better than no veggies at all!!

Sweetpea · 01-26-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

sillygirl, if you need proof of how good sweetpea looks, take a look at her new exhibition thread! WOW- I would have never thought she weighed 175!

Anyway, my birth control shot is starting to make me gain weight, and exercise causes me painful head/joint aches. Unfortunately, I weigh 122 now, but I'm 5'3". My only advice is to keep yourself encouraged by not getting down on yourself too hard. Everyone is attractive, even if they are overweight- you just have to have self-confidence. Oh, and whatever you do, don't go on a diet where you soley eat one type of food- it's bad for your health, and as soon as you drop the weight, you'll just gain it all back. (You probably knew that, but I just thought I should reiterate it.)

A question I have: What exactly are processed foods? (Gee, don't I feel dumb.)

122 @ 5'3" is thin La Petite!!! Sorry to hear that excercise causes joint aches . . .

(sorry if i am being nosy by asking but . .) Have you looked into it with a doctor?? I have Costochondritis, aka Tietze Syndrome, which is an autoimmune disorder, i had/have alot of joint pain before i was properly diagnosed . . .

And yes, i totally agree . . . EVERYONE is beautiful, Big is beautiful/sexy, small is beautiful . . . I love the diversity of woman!

and yup, i used to wiegh 175 . . . and i didn't lose the weight because i didn't feel pretty . . . i just wasn't able to be as active as i wanted to be because i wasn't in good shape . . .

I think every woman should decide what they want to weigh and be happy with it . . . I happen to like myself at 122lbs . . . But i was equally happy at 175 . . . There are many different kinds of BEAUTIFUL

so let me just say . . . All you ladies are Beautiful!

amonkie · 01-26-2005, 05:56 PM

Silly, I feel your pain, and struggle too. The reason I won't let my doctor put me on BC to try and clear up the HORRIBLE hormonal acne I get is I don't want to get any more extra weight that is a common side effect, and play the yo yo game. The approach I've had lately is the metabolism game. The smaller meals spread out is something I've been working on to see if I can get my body continously burning. I've been looking for a Non sit down job partly for this reason too - I hate coming home and feeling like I have no energy to do anything, especially when I work till late in the evening because of classes all day.

sillygirl · 01-26-2005, 10:03 PM

The thing is, I've taken nutritional classes, I've taken homeopathic classes. I know my shnit, basically. I don't eat many breads at all, and not much of them when I do, and really the only thing I eat 'out of a box' is cream of wheat. Meow.

I think it's the thyroid thing, but I've done some research on it, and apparently lots of doctors/tests don't dig deep enough to tell if there's really a problem. But I started taking supplements for my thyroid and it's like weight kinda melted off on it's own.

It just sucks when people see pictures of me two years ago and look at me now and say "This was YOU?"

At least I have a hunny who loves how I am and who I am and isn't pushing me to lose weight.

I heart him!

amonkie · 01-26-2005, 10:13 PM

We love ya, sillygirl

I know it's hard, but your man DOES care about ya, and glad to hear the supplement's helping. It's a genetic thing, so if other people in your family have that problem, that might help give you a little more answers. I know my aunt, cousin, and my dad all have problems with it.

sillygirl · 01-27-2005, 08:42 AM

You guys are really awesome.

anti fishstick · 01-27-2005, 08:59 AM

you may KNOW what kinds of foods you should be eating, but do you?

the trick is not to diet, but to make that a part of your new (healthier) lifestyle and be able to keep it that way. any unhealthy food (junk food, processed food) should be taken only in moderation.

it's NOT about dieting at all.

i suggest you might want to keep a food log so you're more aware of what you eat each day. try to eat more fruits. that's what worked for me. also, do you impulse eat/are you an emotional eater? do you find you crave ice cream or other junk food when you're feeling down or having a bad day? learn to control your eating. ask yourself if you're REALLY hungry and only eat when you are.

i've also heard it's better to have 6 smaller meals a day than 3 big meals. this just means keep yourself snacking throughout the day. yogurt, bananas, apples, granola bar, etc. consider them your energy bars (energy drinks are horrible for you btw).

you might also want to cut back on pop and coffee if you drink that everyday. stick to water and juices.

so, this is all part of a healthier lifestyle, coupled with the 20-30min of excercise 3-4 times a day. you can still eat some junk food, but you have to consider if you're eating more healthy or more junk in a day...in a week, etc. which is why the food log can help. how is this different from dieting? the dieting mindset is what screws people up because they are more inclined to revert back to old habits (and gain back the weight) after they see results. you really need to make the committment to eat healthier in general as part of your daily diet... not daily dieting.

i hope that makes sense or helps some.

sillygirl · 01-27-2005, 09:20 AM

I don't diet. I DO watch what I eat. I drink water, juice, not soda (often), NEVER coffee, and I haven't had an energy drink in months. I don't do candy, as a matter of fact, I don't even really bring it in the house, and I HATE fast food.

Yes, I DO know what I should/shouldn't eat, and I am aware of what I eat. Like I said before, I'm an active person, ALWAYS on the move. So I'm not some lazy girl that just sits around all day at work and then comes home with a snack and vegges out on the couch in front of the tv. I pay for cable for practically no reason (other than my honey does the sitonthecouchandeatchips thing), because I never watch tv. I work evenings, and I'm the one that's always on the go there, going back and forth between houses, constantly moving to keep up with the kids at work.

Manuel Hong · 01-27-2005, 12:09 PM

SG, since you've taken so many clesses, you must know then that it is always damn near impossible to diagnose yourself. I have a private Chinese medical practice and I frequently make this error (so I hired outside help). When trying to treat yourself, you may have intimate knowledge of what your body is doing (or not doing) but you have no perspective!!! Also, taking classes and seeing patients regularly are worlds apart. The experience a practitioner gains by seeing 12 people with a particular condition helps them every time someone new walks in the office with the same type of symptoms. You have only yourself to examine, not the ability to say, "oh yeah, I've seen this before. It often helps when I put them on this." If you've taken these classes, it obviously shows an interest in this type of healing, so go to someone with years of experience in treating your type of situation with lots of success. Ask your old teachers for referrals, put it out there that you want to find someone to help you. The Universe is great that way, I'm sure the right person will be put in your path. Ask lots of questions, get them to reccomend books...this could be a great learning opportunity for you as well. I really wish you the best of luck and honestly you can PM me anytime if you want to.

sillygirl · 01-27-2005, 12:52 PM

know anyone in arizona?

Manuel Hong · 01-27-2005, 01:15 PM

I'll check the database for Oriental medicine, but you may find a booklet of local practitioners at a health food store.

Janey · 01-28-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Hong

I work in complimentary health care and nutrition plays a big part in my treatments. 'Pea is right...white flour and processed foods are the worst thing going along with the so-called "heart healthy" margarines. Olive oil and organic butter should be the only fats you use.

i like to think i'm up on the dietary stuff, so i was surprised when you said that about the margarines. I use a canola oil non-hydrogented margarine, which I specifically researched because i am sticking to complex carbs, and only eating sugar when I really really have to (like satisfying my baked goods (mmm butter tarts) or chocolate bar cravings - i'm not a total diet nazi).

I love butter, but i like the easy spreadability of my canola margarine!!!

pinkie · 01-28-2005, 08:56 AM

Margarine is so terrible for you compared to butter. So so so terrible.

Manuel Hong · 01-28-2005, 01:23 PM

so so so so so so so so terrible!!!!!!!! You should see what those poor oils go through in order to become spreadable. Disgusting. Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is a great source of info on fats as well as the Pitchford book. To find a practitioner of any type in your area go to: http://www.craneherb.com/practitioners.html
Peace, Y'all...

01-26-2005, 11:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	Frustrated rant, maybe some questions Ok, this might get kinda long. When I was younger I was a chubby girl. I lost a bunch of weight, but that was never good enough for me. I've always had to work three times as hard and watch what I eat more than anyone I know. Once I got out of high school, my eating habits didn't change, but I was no longer able to spend three hours or so working out every day. I ended up gaining some weight, and when I started birth control it didn't help. I've struggled with it for the past couple years, and just again started being able to lose some. It just seems that as soon as I lose weight, I can keep it off as long as I spend all my free time exercising. I'm an active person, I don't have a sit down job at ALL, as a matter of fact I chase after kids all day at work. I don't eat junk food, I try to drink lots of water, and I don't really drink too much alcohol anymore. I've just recently started REALLY trying to lose weight again, and I'm just really frustrated right now. Does anyone else struggle this much? __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

01-26-2005, 12:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	I work in complimentary health care and nutrition plays a big part in my treatments. 'Pea is right...white flour and processed foods are the worst thing going along with the so-called "heart healthy" margarines. Olive oil and organic butter should be the only fats you use. Check out the book Healing With Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford, especially the section: Dietary Transition and Weight Loss. To replace bread try the sprouted grain breads available in the natural food section of your grocery store. I get Alvarado Street brand, there's also Food For Life Eziekiel bread, I'm not sure what brands are available in your area... Sprouted grains are more easily digested because the sprouting process activates enzymes in the grain and deactivates enzyme inhibitors which adversely affect your ability to digest. Also, in some people, raw foods put a strain on weak digestive systems, this is why some people complain that all they eat is salad and they can't lose weight. It's like putting a head of lettuce in a pot of cold water...nothing happens. If you tend to have loose stools, you may be one of those people. PM me if you want more details or a professional referral. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-26-2005, 04:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	sillygirl, if you need proof of how good sweetpea looks, take a look at her new exhibition thread! WOW- I would have never thought she weighed 175! Anyway, my birth control shot is starting to make me gain weight, and exercise causes me painful head/joint aches. Unfortunately, I weigh 122 now, but I'm 5'3". My only advice is to keep yourself encouraged by not getting down on yourself too hard. Everyone is attractive, even if they are overweight- you just have to have self-confidence. Oh, and whatever you do, don't go on a diet where you soley eat one type of food- it's bad for your health, and as soon as you drop the weight, you'll just gain it all back. (You probably knew that, but I just thought I should reiterate it.) A question I have: What exactly are processed foods? (Gee, don't I feel dumb.) Last edited by la petite moi; 01-26-2005 at 04:17 PM..

01-26-2005, 04:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	ALL women are beautiful. The Goddess made us that way. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-26-2005, 04:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	proccessed food is basically anything premade and sold in a box or bag. Just about everything in the grocery store found up and down the aisles. Try to shop around the perimeter of the store. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-26-2005, 12:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	If you're continuously overweight without overeating and doing everything proper is not working for you, see your doctor. You may have polycystic(sp) ovarian disease or underactive thyroid. Being unable to lose weight is just one symptom. Another symptom of the ovarian disorder is facial hair, while one for the thyroid is feeling tired all the time. Good luck! PS. I lost 45 lbs through Weight Watchers in 6 months and except for a few lbs up and down have kept it off since 1999, but I didn't have a weight issue growing up. It is, however, an excellent program using balanced nutrition and counseling.

01-26-2005, 03:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
nickynicole Crazy Location: not here.	Eating healthy and being active and drinking water, just generally taking care of yourself, should be something to make you smile. Your body may not look like you hoped, but you are making healthy choices that positively affect things besides your weight, and that's awesome. I second the seeing the doctor thing. Even if nothing is wrong, you may be able to consult with a professional on the best weight loss plan for you.

01-26-2005, 04:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	usually washed in a bleach solution...and expensive!! __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-26-2005, 05:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	I think we've hijacked. sorry. Yeah, I do the spinach from time to time myself. Hey, it ain't rice a roni, it's veggies and veggies in bleach is better than no veggies at all!! __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-26-2005, 05:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	Silly, I feel your pain, and struggle too. The reason I won't let my doctor put me on BC to try and clear up the HORRIBLE hormonal acne I get is I don't want to get any more extra weight that is a common side effect, and play the yo yo game. The approach I've had lately is the metabolism game. The smaller meals spread out is something I've been working on to see if I can get my body continously burning. I've been looking for a Non sit down job partly for this reason too - I hate coming home and feeling like I have no energy to do anything, especially when I work till late in the evening because of classes all day. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

01-26-2005, 10:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	The thing is, I've taken nutritional classes, I've taken homeopathic classes. I know my shnit, basically. I don't eat many breads at all, and not much of them when I do, and really the only thing I eat 'out of a box' is cream of wheat. Meow. I think it's the thyroid thing, but I've done some research on it, and apparently lots of doctors/tests don't dig deep enough to tell if there's really a problem. But I started taking supplements for my thyroid and it's like weight kinda melted off on it's own. It just sucks when people see pictures of me two years ago and look at me now and say "This was YOU?" At least I have a hunny who loves how I am and who I am and isn't pushing me to lose weight. I heart him! __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

01-26-2005, 10:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	We love ya, sillygirl I know it's hard, but your man DOES care about ya, and glad to hear the supplement's helping. It's a genetic thing, so if other people in your family have that problem, that might help give you a little more answers. I know my aunt, cousin, and my dad all have problems with it. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

01-27-2005, 08:42 AM	#17 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	You guys are really awesome. __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

01-27-2005, 08:59 AM	#18 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	you may KNOW what kinds of foods you should be eating, but do you? the trick is not to diet, but to make that a part of your new (healthier) lifestyle and be able to keep it that way. any unhealthy food (junk food, processed food) should be taken only in moderation. it's NOT about dieting at all. i suggest you might want to keep a food log so you're more aware of what you eat each day. try to eat more fruits. that's what worked for me. also, do you impulse eat/are you an emotional eater? do you find you crave ice cream or other junk food when you're feeling down or having a bad day? learn to control your eating. ask yourself if you're REALLY hungry and only eat when you are. i've also heard it's better to have 6 smaller meals a day than 3 big meals. this just means keep yourself snacking throughout the day. yogurt, bananas, apples, granola bar, etc. consider them your energy bars (energy drinks are horrible for you btw). you might also want to cut back on pop and coffee if you drink that everyday. stick to water and juices. so, this is all part of a healthier lifestyle, coupled with the 20-30min of excercise 3-4 times a day. you can still eat some junk food, but you have to consider if you're eating more healthy or more junk in a day...in a week, etc. which is why the food log can help. how is this different from dieting? the dieting mindset is what screws people up because they are more inclined to revert back to old habits (and gain back the weight) after they see results. you really need to make the committment to eat healthier in general as part of your daily diet... not daily dieting. i hope that makes sense or helps some. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

01-27-2005, 09:20 AM	#19 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	I don't diet. I DO watch what I eat. I drink water, juice, not soda (often), NEVER coffee, and I haven't had an energy drink in months. I don't do candy, as a matter of fact, I don't even really bring it in the house, and I HATE fast food. Yes, I DO know what I should/shouldn't eat, and I am aware of what I eat. Like I said before, I'm an active person, ALWAYS on the move. So I'm not some lazy girl that just sits around all day at work and then comes home with a snack and vegges out on the couch in front of the tv. I pay for cable for practically no reason (other than my honey does the sitonthecouchandeatchips thing), because I never watch tv. I work evenings, and I'm the one that's always on the go there, going back and forth between houses, constantly moving to keep up with the kids at work. __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

01-27-2005, 12:09 PM	#20 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	SG, since you've taken so many clesses, you must know then that it is always damn near impossible to diagnose yourself. I have a private Chinese medical practice and I frequently make this error (so I hired outside help). When trying to treat yourself, you may have intimate knowledge of what your body is doing (or not doing) but you have no perspective!!! Also, taking classes and seeing patients regularly are worlds apart. The experience a practitioner gains by seeing 12 people with a particular condition helps them every time someone new walks in the office with the same type of symptoms. You have only yourself to examine, not the ability to say, "oh yeah, I've seen this before. It often helps when I put them on this." If you've taken these classes, it obviously shows an interest in this type of healing, so go to someone with years of experience in treating your type of situation with lots of success. Ask your old teachers for referrals, put it out there that you want to find someone to help you. The Universe is great that way, I'm sure the right person will be put in your path. Ask lots of questions, get them to reccomend books...this could be a great learning opportunity for you as well. I really wish you the best of luck and honestly you can PM me anytime if you want to. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-27-2005, 12:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	know anyone in arizona? __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

01-27-2005, 01:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	I'll check the database for Oriental medicine, but you may find a booklet of local practitioners at a health food store. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

01-28-2005, 08:56 AM	#24 (permalink)
pinkie Helplessly hoping Location: Above the stars	Margarine is so terrible for you compared to butter. So so so terrible.

01-28-2005, 01:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	so so so so so so so so terrible!!!!!!!! You should see what those poor oils go through in order to become spreadable. Disgusting. Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is a great source of info on fats as well as the Pitchford book. To find a practitioner of any type in your area go to: http://www.craneherb.com/practitioners.html Peace, Y'all... __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)