I am not crazy because I don't want kids! A rant, a discussion, whatever - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cedar · 08-10-2004, 05:53 PM

I am childfree.

I am 27 years old and decided when I was 8 that although I did want to get married someday, I never wanted children.

It's not about my career. Plenty of women in my profession have children. It is partially about my health: I have very severe back problems and a pregnancy could further damage the nerves in my back and leg. It's not about being a maverick, or revenge. I didn't have the greatest childhood, true, but I turned out okay as an adult.

I just don't want children.

I don't particularly care for children. I don't particularly care for anyone I can't have an adult conversation with. I hate the very idea of diapers, breast-feeding, and that having a kid means complete unselfishness and unconditional love. I am narcissistic and can't stand the sound of screaming children. I like being able to spend my money on myself, my family, and my husband, and don't want to buy children's anything, ever. I want to drive my Miata and sleep when I want. And I'd appreciate it if my doctor recognized that my choice is a legitimate one made by a sane, stable person and tied my damn tubes so my husband and I wouldn't have to use condoms AND the pill because that's how terrified I am of getting pregnant.

And for those who ask:

Yes, it's different when they're my own: I can't send them home.

No, I'm not especially glad that my mother wasn't childfree, because if she was I wouldn't be around to care.

No, I don't think making the decision to not have children is selfish. I think it's more selfish to not consider all the ramifications of having children in the first place, which is what too many people do.

What family name?

Yes, I realize I'm smart and attractive, as is my husband, but that does not mean I'd make a good parent. You know why kids and dogs flock to me? It's because I don't like them.

I'd rather regret not having children than regret having them.

needed to write that. thanks.

fallenangel · 08-10-2004, 05:59 PM

congratulations on knowing where you stand and not realizing it after you do potentially have children. Dr's are too focking nosy anyway

maleficent · 08-10-2004, 06:14 PM

Good for you on your choice, it's a choice to have children, it's a choice to not have them, people have to do what's right for them, and not having children is right for you.

My brother, at age 22, had a vasectomy, because he decided, he never wanted to bring a child into this world, and since he wasn't going to become celibate, he didn't want to be responsbile for any birth control failures. Took him 4 doctors to find one that would do it and one doctor wanted to send him to counselling. The last doctor, and older guy, understood his reasons, and performed the procedure. He's been married 7 years and he and his wife have a great life, they aren't missing children.

If your existing doctor won't honor your choice, or thinks that you'll change your mind, find another doctor that will listen to you.

ironchefrocks · 08-10-2004, 07:25 PM

I've read your other post in the birth control thread about not even being able to get an IUD. For some reason I'm more willing to accept that insurance or doctors don't want to do the surgery, but an IUD is, in theory, reversible. Did you try a planned parenthood or something like it for the IUD? If it's an insurance issue and you have the money to pay for a tubal ligation, I agree with maleficent - find a doctor who will perform it. Why one woman should be allowed to get silicone implants (breasts, butt, whatever) and you not allowed to decide definitively you don't want kids is beyond me.

*Nikki* · 08-11-2004, 05:49 AM

I am 80% sure that I don't want children either.

My main reason though is that I feel I could never be a great parent and I don't think that a child deserves less then 100%.

Therefore I am leaving the children having to people who will do a better job at it then me.

Cedar · 08-11-2004, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironchefrocks
I've read your other post in the birth control thread about not even being able to get an IUD. For some reason I'm more willing to accept that insurance or doctors don't want to do the surgery, but an IUD is, in theory, reversible. Did you try a planned parenthood or something like it for the IUD? If it's an insurance issue and you have the money to pay for a tubal ligation, I agree with maleficent - find a doctor who will perform it. Why one woman should be allowed to get silicone implants (breasts, butt, whatever) and you not allowed to decide definitively you don't want kids is beyond me.

My doctor told me, regarding the IUD, that I couldn't get one because I've never had children and it's got something to do with my cervix not being large enough to accomodate the IUD. I know this can't be entirely true, because I know women who haven't had children who got an IUD. I've already asked my lovely coworker for a doctor recommendation, and I'm going to be making an appointment soon. Insurance should cover it. Gee, you'd think they'd be jumping all over themselves to get me an IUD and/or a tubal, which cost them a lot less than a baby! Thank you for your suggestion; I will have to check out Planned Parenthood.

As for the idea of "no one questions silicone implants but I can't get my tubes tied," I think there's a pervasive idea that all women must want to be mothers, that they have maternal instinct and must want more than anything to reproduce. I get this crap from my roommate: Since I'm a woman, it's not natural to not want children. Never mind the fact that I can't even keep a plant alive, I must have a baybee to validate my marriage and my womanhood. You know, if other people want to have children, that's fine. I commend good parents. But one would think that for every good parent, there's a bad one, and if I recognize that I'll be a bad parent before I have children, I would think they'd respect my decision and make it so I can't visit myself on defenseless human being.

Trisk · 08-11-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedar
No, I don't think making the decision to not have children is selfish. I think it's more selfish to not consider all the ramifications of having children in the first place, which is what too many people do.

I completely agree with you there and I respect your decision. I'm glad you took the time to think about this and are taking measures to make sure that you never have one. I wish more people thought about it and did the same.

I'm not sure if I want a child at this point but I've thought over a lot of the same stuff that you mentioned here. Without kids, you have a lot more money to spend on stuff you really want, a lot more time to do stuff you really want to do etc etc.

Some people consider their kids to be the best part of their lives. To them, the sacrafices are worth it.
Everyone else should seriously consider having a kid before serious relationships or relationships where they are sexually active.

RainbowBright · 08-11-2004, 07:23 PM

I'm 25 and I have no desire to have children, my husband feels the same way. Because we are so young I recognize that our feelings may change so we have not gone for the vasectomy yet. We made our decision for lots of reasons. One because of my lack of motherly desire, our feelings that we would not be the parents we would want to be (we both yell when we get mad/frustrated for one), and population growth. We are both believers in zero population growth and there are so many people having so many children us not having any helps in a very, very small way make up for all those extras. I also have a lot of trouble bringing a child into the world when there are so many children without parents. So, if we do decide we want a child in our lives it will be by adoption.

raeanna74 · 08-12-2004, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maleficent
If your existing doctor won't honor your choice, or thinks that you'll change your mind, find another doctor that will listen to you.

Ditto on that one. Despite any one elses opinions on your choice as long as it's your choice and you are sure of it your Dr should be willing to work with you. It's none of his business ot try to change your mind. That irritates me that someone would presume that they know your mind better than you.

I personally have wanted to work with children. I've always known that it was my nitch, my career. So having a child was natural to me. On the other hand I'm satisfied with my one daughter and don't want more. Now that she is 4, I am beginning to get questions from family and friends about when the next one is coming. Hubby and I agree and we are satisfied. That's what we tell people but they always seem puzzled by it. We both come from a background where many of our friends' families have 4,5,6 or more children. But many of them struggled to support that size family. A conscious choice is a more responsible parenting attitude. Even if it means that you choose not to concieve, it's still a "parenting" choice. It's YOUR choice.

aphroditeskiss1 · 08-12-2004, 01:28 PM

I am so glad I am not the only woman out there who doesn't want children. So many of my friends, who are only 18 or 19, are just biding their time until they feel they're old enough to have one. I just want to shout at them! They don't need a child to compleate themselves, and if that's why they want one, it's the wrong reason. I know if I do have children, it won't be until I'm at least 30. I want to live my life and experienced everything that I want to before having to give my life up to a screaming, smelly, dependant human.

sexymama · 08-12-2004, 04:00 PM

Ditto to above! If you don't want them, don't have them. You are obviously happy and your life is your life, no one else's. Those who judge have no right as they are not living your life!

And I do think there is something sick about a society that will pay for Viagra, but not pay for sound birth control!

SparklingDot · 08-12-2004, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RainbowBright
We are both believers in zero population growth and there are so many people having so many children us not having any helps in a very, very small way make up for all those extras. I also have a lot of trouble bringing a child into the world when there are so many children without parents. So, if we do decide we want a child in our lives it will be by adoption.

I agree with ZPG. And though I don't really want children of my own (at least not at this point) that I would like to adopt and provide for a child in need. Should I have a child of my own, I'd still like to adopt. There are kids who need me, and always will be.

Squishor · 08-18-2004, 06:40 PM

I read your post with great appreciation, Cedar, and you should know that you speak for others too. I laughed out loud when I read the part about, "Yes, I know it's different when they're your own..."

I had my tubes tied and I really should have done it 20 years earlier. I tried when I was 17 but couldn't find a doctor who would even consider it. I don't like kids, don't generally enjoy being around them, and know that I don't want to grow one - in fact the whole idea of pregnancy and childbirth seems repulsive to me, even though I know it's supposed to be beautiful. I will be happy going through life without having to teach anybody how to wipe their own ass. I've been told that this makes me less of a woman. I have also been (repeatedly) told that I was once a child myself. Do they say that to you too? How is that relevant to my decision to breed or not as an adult?

So when I was finally at my local family planning clinic, having thought it over very seriously every day for two years straight, I told the doctor this and she treated me like I was making a mistake she needed to talk me out of. I couldn't believe it, and pointed out that I was nearly 40 and wouldn't even be fertile all that much longer. I reminded her that I was beyond the stage they call "adult" and moving into middle age. I had to explain all my reasons and only got her reluctant blessing, and left with hard feelings. At what point does it become acceptable for a grown woman in command of all her senses to make her own decision about childbearing? Not at 39, so I was told that day, by a doctor at Planned Parenthood no less. I don't quite understand this weird fixation on making more babies when we clearly have too many already.

The good news is, I haven't had to worry about birth control for over a year now, and it feels great! Like I said, I only wish I had done it 20 years ago.

lurkette · 08-18-2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishor

I have also been (repeatedly) told that I was once a child myself. Do they say that to you too? How is that relevant to my decision to breed or not as an adult?

Oh, I HATE that one!!!

I'm well aware that I was once a child myself, and I'll bet I was annoying as hell! I'm very glad my mother chose to have me, but that by no means obligates me to go on and procreate cheerfully. I don't hate children, I just don't want any!

And you're not the only one who thinks pregnancy and childbirth are icky. I hate when people make me feel their stomachs when the baby kicks - reminds me of the scene from "Alien"...and as for childbirth, I have two words that are the best birth control ever: mucus plug. Bleahhhhhhhh.

I'd like to know when my reproductive choices became anybody's business but mine and ratbastid's. I understand that people who have children love them, and think it's a great experience, but that doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

Cedar · 08-19-2004, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

And you're not the only one who thinks pregnancy and childbirth are icky. I hate when people make me feel their stomachs when the baby kicks - reminds me of the scene from "Alien".

Bwahaha! Forget sex ed and pregnancy education. They should just show "Alien" in sex ed classes. That'd take care of the pregnancy rate

little_tippler · 08-20-2004, 10:04 AM

I think it's fine not wanting children, your life is your own and it's terrible how doctors try to interfere with your life. I do think though that when you're still quite young, maybe you should wait to have the tube tying thing. Because I'm sure the case has occurred to some, where they never wanted to have children, then have one "accidentally", and find they did want a child of their own after all. And it's true, your mind does change. How many of you here can honestly look back at yourselves at say 14, 20 odd years of age or whatever, and think that you are the same person that you were then? For me, I don't even know the person I was at that age.

Cedar · 08-20-2004, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little_tippler

I think it's fine not wanting children, your life is your own and it's terrible how doctors try to interfere with your life. I do think though that when you're still quite young, maybe you should wait to have the tube tying thing. Because I'm sure the case has occurred to some, where they never wanted to have children, then have one "accidentally", and find they did want a child of their own after all. And it's true, your mind does change. How many of you here can honestly look back at yourselves at say 14, 20 odd years of age or whatever, and think that you are the same person that you were then? For me, I don't even know the person I was at that age.

But at 22 I packed all my belongings, moved 550 miles from home to a city I've never been to, and put myself through grad school. I chose my husband and my career and am a self-sufficient, mature person who pays all my own bills, so why am I "too young" to make decisions about my own body? I've thought more about not having children than a lot of people have about having them. I've been considering a tubal for about four years but have not until now had steady health insurance and a doctor I like. Never have I been able to figure out a way that having a child would enhance my life, and because of this, I think it's time I took the steps to permanently prevent myself from having one.

Also, my youngest sister is an "accident" and I could never bear to raise a child that I know would resent me as much as my sister resents my parents. I know they didn't want a third child, and they certainly don't mistreat my sister, but I would think it takes more than just getting pregnant accidentally to change your mind, or someone else's, about wanting children. There are too many newspaper articles that contradict the idea that all children are wanted, even if they're not conceived intentionally, and I know I would be horrible to any child I had because I am just too self-absorbed and autonomous to be a mother. I need at least five hours a day to myself to write and exercise and be myself, and I know that I couldn't do that if I had a child.

And I chose my career, which I love, when I was four years old

maleficent · 08-20-2004, 10:56 AM

Everyone is entitled to make their own choices, and then the person has to live with their choices, for them, it's the right decision at the time... When a woman chooses to have an abortion, it's the right choice for her, no reasonable person questions that choice. The woman has to live with that decision.

You are making the choice to not ever have children, your choice, it's something you will have to live with, which you seem happily willing to do. No reasonable person should question your choice.

People have to live with their choices, as long as someone is willing to do that, who are we to question that. Which leads me to an aquaintance, who used to be a friend but sucked all the friend life out of me. Based on her choices, that is to have some fun and not have a baby in her 20's and 30s, she's now at age 45 and going thru all sorts of fertility treatments to try and become pregnant, unsuccessfully. She hasn't quite grasped the concept that her choices got her to where she is, I'm not sure she's being all that reasonable either.

I think you have thought out your choice, weighed all the options and are making the right decision for you. The world does not children that the parents either don't want or are ambivelent about.

pointbock69 · 08-23-2004, 08:54 PM

I don't have much to add, you all said it well. Thanks for sharing yourselves and making me feel better about my decision to not have kids!!

lurkette · 08-24-2004, 06:07 AM

Mal, I couldn't agree more with you about choices. So many people refuse to accept responsibility for their choices and their consequences. I think it's easy, in a society where abundance is taken for granted and science has made nearly anything possible, to develop a sense of entitlement that eclipses the roles of personal responsibility and sacrifice.

I think at least part of the reason why doctors are hesitant to respect a young woman's decision to get her tubes tied is that some women come back later and regret that choice, and a lot of people, faced with a choice between taking responsibility for their own actions and blaming someone else, will blame someone else and get litigious about it. It's unfortunate that some people who can't take responsibility make it harder for the rest of us.

I can also understand, though, that doctors who see a lot of women regret getting their tubes tied and then go through expensive, time-consuming, emotionally-draining fertility procedures later would be hesitant to just take a young, fertile woman at her word.

It's a tricky situation however you look at it.

ShaniFaye · 08-24-2004, 06:32 AM

I sympathize, but not in the way you might expect. (see the tubal vs vasectomy thread). I've had the one and only child I ever wanted. Now Im with a new man with whom I plan to spend the rest of my life...he's 31 and KNOWS without a doubt that he never wants kids of his own...he's happy with mine...but Im still struggling with the concept of him being so young and knowing without a doubt that he doesnt want to procreate....I struggle with feeling selfish if I let him have a V...at least I know that if I have a tubal that if, god forbid I died, and he found himself with another woman say in 5 years, that he might have changed his mind about the kids.

I know that I feel that way because I've had a child...and my biological clock stopped ticking when I had her.....but its hard for a person to completely understand that another person could be so certain. I love Dave with all my heart and know him better than I know myself...but I still have difficulty wrapping my mind around his definate knowledge of what he wants....I can see why it would be more difficult for a person not "emotionally" involved to trust your instincts.

I say if you're that certain you keep going until you find a doctor that will do it for you.

nzv · 08-24-2004, 03:51 PM

If you don't want kids, don't have them. I can't imagine being the "unwanted" kid. You still have some issues about it because you started this thread, seems like you're trying to convince someone (maybe yourself) of your choice. But just imagine that when you are old, sick and alone, who will visit you? Well there's always a nursery home if you can afford it. My grandma died with a smile on her face surrounded by her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

maleficent · 08-24-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzv

But just imagine that when you are old, sick and alone, who will visit you?.

Sorry, but just so you won't die alone is a lousy reason to have children. How about friends, children of friends, nieces, nephews. I cannot have children, so that means I'm doomed to die alone? While it's a fear of mine, I couldn't guarentee that I a miracle were to happen and I had a child, what makes me think that child would be with me on my deathbed.

I know a woman who has 8 children, this woman will die alone. I have no doubt of that.

lurkette · 08-25-2004, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzv

You still have some issues about it because you started this thread, seems like you're trying to convince someone (maybe yourself) of your choice.

Damn, hate that one too.

Doesn't sound to me like she has any issues or is trying to convince anybody of anything except for the fact that her choice is a legitimate one that should be respected, but it's not. And you just kind of proved her point.

Why do people have such a hard time accepting that a woman could not want to procreate and be perfectly happy and unconflicted about it?

ShaniFaye · 08-25-2004, 05:41 AM

Some people think that just because a person feels the need to blow steam and have other people comiserate with them, it means they still have "issues". I guess they dont understand the need to "rant"

nzv · 08-25-2004, 12:07 PM

I totally support her. I know that some people should not have kids knowing the way they're treating them or like those that leave their newborn in a dumster, etc. It's just when I make a decision, I don't go out screaming about it to get approval or disaproval. I don't care what anyone thinks and what anyone will say about it. It's my decision and I am comfortable with it. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion but just wanted to say my 2 cents since she put it up here for "a rant, a discussion, whatever". At some point of her life she might regret this choice or even change it.

I did not say that the reason to have children is not to die alone -- but not to live without them. I personally have 2 children and every morning I wake up and they jump into my bed, give me kisses and hugs. They are my sunshine! And watching them grow and becoming more like me or dad -- it's the best feeling in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cedar

"I don't particularly care for anyone I can't have an adult conversation with"

You know they grow up so fast. My daughter is 9 and we love to go out together in the mall or to the movies and she even suggests some clothes for me

We can talk for hours. She is so smart and reads lots of books and magazines.
It's just my life and I LOVE IT!!!!!

(and you don't know what you're missing but it's your life)

Averett · 08-25-2004, 12:19 PM

Hey nzv, don't you wish you could pack up and go on a week long trip just like that? Betcha can't do that with your kids. Maybe you don't know what you're missing. But it's your life

maleficent · 08-25-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzv

It's just my life and I LOVE IT!!!!! (and you don't know what you're missing but it's your life)

I'm not picking on you... however...

Why should a person who decided to remain childless be missing anything?

I love my one of my nieces and one of my nephews to death, the other two, I think are obnoxious brats, the two that I do like, I like for limited lengths of time. I don't miss having children, I'm not missing that in my life, I couldn't have the career that I do, which I love, if I did have kids.

Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. There are a lot of parents out there, who should have rethought the kid decision.

What's a childless person missing out on?

nzv · 08-25-2004, 08:55 PM

lurkette · 08-26-2004, 06:00 AM

A lot of people who choose not to have children know exactly what they're missing out on. I heard someone say once that not having children, you'd miss out on life's greatest joys and greatest sorrows. I know that a lot of parents get joy and fulfillment from being parents, but I also think it's overly romanticized in our culture. It's become this cult of parenthood and if you're not a member, you're to be pitied and condescended to. Sure, I'm missing the thrill of shaping a life, watching somebody grow, but I'm also missing the pain of watching your child grow away from you, knowing you can't protect them from harm, wondering how they're going to turn out, etc. And, as I saw with my brother and my parents, the pain of watching your child turn out exactly how you DIDN'T want, and watching your child die.

nzv, a lot of the reason people who don't have children feel like they have to defend their choice is because some people who have children treat us like children ourselves - we don't know what we're missing, we are selfish, we are conflicted, blah blah blah. I don't know if it's because those people are themselves conflicted about their choice to have kids and feel like they have to defend their own choices to themselves, or what, but it's really annoying to be told you don't know your own mind and that if you were thoughtful about it you'd want children.

People who choose not to have kids do so for as varied reasons as people who choose to have kids, and those reasons should be respected.

Tophat665 · 08-26-2004, 07:29 AM

My post was edited because I forgot I have a penis.

Redgirl · 08-26-2004, 07:50 AM

I used to think I never wanted to have kids but as I get older (I'm 28) my clock has started ticking and I've been re-thinking it. It is just so scary to know you are completely responsible for something as defenseless as a baby. I have a lot of mothering instincts which I take out on my husband, 3 dogs, and numerous plants, so I know I am capable of devoting myself to a baby- but I would put so much pressure on myself to be the "perfect" mom that I would probably drive myself crazy in the process.

I just wish everyone put as much thought into having a baby as we ladies of the TFP! It should scare the shit out of everyone, but that's no reason not to do it if you really think it's the best for you. But fucking think about it for half a second first!

I would adopt, but my husband isn't a big fan of that. He's made it clear that he'd probably be happier with no kids, but if I really want to have some he'd go along with it. So then I feel like I'm forcing him to do it, and that will just create problems.

Blaahhhh- what a mess going on in my head.

Averett · 08-26-2004, 08:08 AM

Redgirl, if you and your husband had kids, they would be so beautiful! For some reason I think multi-racial kids are gorgeous. My friend Vanessa in college was black but with very light skin - blue eyes too. She and her boyfriend Raphael (really dark skinned) had a baby with the most perfect chocolate complection and bright blue eyes. That little girl is going to be breaking hearts.

I hope that doesn't sound offensive at all!

Redgirl · 08-31-2004, 12:17 PM

hehe... no you are right Averett. Most mixed children seem to be extra cute. Of course I'm very curious from a genetics standpoint. We could have the next Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams!!

Apache · 08-31-2004, 03:17 PM

Well sorry to say that I didn't read every single reply word for word, just kind of skimmed through them, so I may end up repeating something somebody else has already said. Anyway...There are to many people who shouldn't have kids but are to irrisponsible to make sure it doesn't happen. So I don't think you are being sellfish at all. In fact people who are more worried about themselves and having a good time and don't take the proper precautions to not get pregnant are the ones who are selfish because in a lot of cases the kids are the ones that suffer. And I like what you said, that you would rather regret not having them, than regret having them, so I applaude your choice.

gabshu · 09-02-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redgirl

Of course I'm very curious from a genetics standpoint. We could have the next Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams!!

It's called "hybrid vigor". Not to compare you with cattle, but when you mix cows and bulls of different breeds, or ones that are totally unrelated, the offspring is almost always better than the two parents. (that's why getting angus beef at the supermarket is kinda stupid, angus-hereford would be better)
But anyway, this happens with any species, including humans.

Redgirl · 09-02-2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabshu

It's called "hybrid vigor". Not to compare you with cattle, but when you mix cows and bulls of different breeds, or ones that are totally unrelated, the offspring is almost always better than the two parents.

MOOOOO!

Squishor · 09-02-2004, 09:40 PM

Maybe this has already been resolved but I just want to point out that the reason women who decide to remain childless may need to rant is that we're put under tremendous societal pressure to have babies whether we want to or not. It's everything from "when am I going to have some grandchildren" to "you will never know what it means to truly be a woman until you have a baby" and all the shades of expectation in between. You'd be surprised at how much judgement gets directed at a woman who doesn't want to have children. The women who have them extol their virtues endlessly. Fine, we're glad you love your kids, that's a good thing. But to be accused of somehow being "less of a woman" for not having children (not that anybody here has done that) is insulting and upsetting, and it happens more often than you might realize if you're in the baby club.

catsmuffin · 09-07-2004, 06:01 PM

It's wonderful that you know what you (don't) want. I have always known that I didn't want children either,...I am not Mommy material. I had a tubal ligation when I was 27 and it was one of the best things I've done. Eversince I was younger I knew and since my surgery 6 years ago I have never had a regret and know that I will not. People have no right to judge your decision. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion but, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I heard negative remarks but, they went in one ear (after I spoke my peace) and out the other. People have to remember that it's our life to live and not theirs.

StickODynomite · 09-07-2004, 09:52 PM

I was pregnant, then miscarried June 13th, 2004.. I'm only 20. I was happy then sad then happy after the whole miscarriage (of course I felt a great loss and i cried for a week or so off an on). The more i think about it and the more i look at kids, i think to myself... i really dont know if i even want a kid. I used to say i wanted two, now im saying ONE.. maybe one day.. none? who knows. Anyway, i respect the fact that some women dont want to have children. I think my mom shouldn't have had kids .. she's 42 with 3 kids (my younger brother is 4 yrs old) and still wants to go partying ALL the time. It's all about choice and lifestyle...nothing more .. nothing less.

08-10-2004, 05:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cedar Crazy Location: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry	I am not crazy because I don't want kids! A rant, a discussion, whatever I am childfree. I am 27 years old and decided when I was 8 that although I did want to get married someday, I never wanted children. It's not about my career. Plenty of women in my profession have children. It is partially about my health: I have very severe back problems and a pregnancy could further damage the nerves in my back and leg. It's not about being a maverick, or revenge. I didn't have the greatest childhood, true, but I turned out okay as an adult. I just don't want children. I don't particularly care for children. I don't particularly care for anyone I can't have an adult conversation with. I hate the very idea of diapers, breast-feeding, and that having a kid means complete unselfishness and unconditional love. I am narcissistic and can't stand the sound of screaming children. I like being able to spend my money on myself, my family, and my husband, and don't want to buy children's anything, ever. I want to drive my Miata and sleep when I want. And I'd appreciate it if my doctor recognized that my choice is a legitimate one made by a sane, stable person and tied my damn tubes so my husband and I wouldn't have to use condoms AND the pill because that's how terrified I am of getting pregnant. And for those who ask: Yes, it's different when they're my own: I can't send them home. No, I'm not especially glad that my mother wasn't childfree, because if she was I wouldn't be around to care. No, I don't think making the decision to not have children is selfish. I think it's more selfish to not consider all the ramifications of having children in the first place, which is what too many people do. What family name? Yes, I realize I'm smart and attractive, as is my husband, but that does not mean I'd make a good parent. You know why kids and dogs flock to me? It's because I don't like them. I'd rather regret not having children than regret having them. needed to write that. thanks. __________________ Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, I am large. I contain multitudes. -Walt Whitman, Song of Myself

08-10-2004, 05:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
fallenangel soaring Location: near the water	congratulations on knowing where you stand and not realizing it after you do potentially have children. Dr's are too focking nosy anyway __________________ all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

08-10-2004, 06:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Good for you on your choice, it's a choice to have children, it's a choice to not have them, people have to do what's right for them, and not having children is right for you. My brother, at age 22, had a vasectomy, because he decided, he never wanted to bring a child into this world, and since he wasn't going to become celibate, he didn't want to be responsbile for any birth control failures. Took him 4 doctors to find one that would do it and one doctor wanted to send him to counselling. The last doctor, and older guy, understood his reasons, and performed the procedure. He's been married 7 years and he and his wife have a great life, they aren't missing children. If your existing doctor won't honor your choice, or thinks that you'll change your mind, find another doctor that will listen to you. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-12-2004, 01:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
aphroditeskiss1 Insane Location: Albuquerque, NM	I am so glad I am not the only woman out there who doesn't want children. So many of my friends, who are only 18 or 19, are just biding their time until they feel they're old enough to have one. I just want to shout at them! They don't need a child to compleate themselves, and if that's why they want one, it's the wrong reason. I know if I do have children, it won't be until I'm at least 30. I want to live my life and experienced everything that I want to before having to give my life up to a screaming, smelly, dependant human. __________________ "You always said destiny would blow me away. But nothing's gonna blow me away"- Something Coporate " I do not pop pills! I take them and I eat them..." - Foamy's friend

08-12-2004, 04:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	Ditto to above! If you don't want them, don't have them. You are obviously happy and your life is your life, no one else's. Those who judge have no right as they are not living your life! And I do think there is something sick about a society that will pay for Viagra, but not pay for sound birth control! __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

08-10-2004, 07:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
ironchefrocks Upright Location: Glenview, IL	I've read your other post in the birth control thread about not even being able to get an IUD. For some reason I'm more willing to accept that insurance or doctors don't want to do the surgery, but an IUD is, in theory, reversible. Did you try a planned parenthood or something like it for the IUD? If it's an insurance issue and you have the money to pay for a tubal ligation, I agree with maleficent - find a doctor who will perform it. Why one woman should be allowed to get silicone implants (breasts, butt, whatever) and you not allowed to decide definitively you don't want kids is beyond me.

08-11-2004, 05:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I am 80% sure that I don't want children either. My main reason though is that I feel I could never be a great parent and I don't think that a child deserves less then 100%. Therefore I am leaving the children having to people who will do a better job at it then me.

08-11-2004, 07:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
RainbowBright Crazy	I'm 25 and I have no desire to have children, my husband feels the same way. Because we are so young I recognize that our feelings may change so we have not gone for the vasectomy yet. We made our decision for lots of reasons. One because of my lack of motherly desire, our feelings that we would not be the parents we would want to be (we both yell when we get mad/frustrated for one), and population growth. We are both believers in zero population growth and there are so many people having so many children us not having any helps in a very, very small way make up for all those extras. I also have a lot of trouble bringing a child into the world when there are so many children without parents. So, if we do decide we want a child in our lives it will be by adoption.

08-18-2004, 06:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	I read your post with great appreciation, Cedar, and you should know that you speak for others too. I laughed out loud when I read the part about, "Yes, I know it's different when they're your own..." I had my tubes tied and I really should have done it 20 years earlier. I tried when I was 17 but couldn't find a doctor who would even consider it. I don't like kids, don't generally enjoy being around them, and know that I don't want to grow one - in fact the whole idea of pregnancy and childbirth seems repulsive to me, even though I know it's supposed to be beautiful. I will be happy going through life without having to teach anybody how to wipe their own ass. I've been told that this makes me less of a woman. I have also been (repeatedly) told that I was once a child myself. Do they say that to you too? How is that relevant to my decision to breed or not as an adult? So when I was finally at my local family planning clinic, having thought it over very seriously every day for two years straight, I told the doctor this and she treated me like I was making a mistake she needed to talk me out of. I couldn't believe it, and pointed out that I was nearly 40 and wouldn't even be fertile all that much longer. I reminded her that I was beyond the stage they call "adult" and moving into middle age. I had to explain all my reasons and only got her reluctant blessing, and left with hard feelings. At what point does it become acceptable for a grown woman in command of all her senses to make her own decision about childbearing? Not at 39, so I was told that day, by a doctor at Planned Parenthood no less. I don't quite understand this weird fixation on making more babies when we clearly have too many already. The good news is, I haven't had to worry about birth control for over a year now, and it feels great! Like I said, I only wish I had done it 20 years ago. Last edited by Squishor; 08-18-2004 at 06:43 PM..

08-20-2004, 10:04 AM	#16 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	I think it's fine not wanting children, your life is your own and it's terrible how doctors try to interfere with your life. I do think though that when you're still quite young, maybe you should wait to have the tube tying thing. Because I'm sure the case has occurred to some, where they never wanted to have children, then have one "accidentally", and find they did want a child of their own after all. And it's true, your mind does change. How many of you here can honestly look back at yourselves at say 14, 20 odd years of age or whatever, and think that you are the same person that you were then? For me, I don't even know the person I was at that age. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

08-20-2004, 10:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Everyone is entitled to make their own choices, and then the person has to live with their choices, for them, it's the right decision at the time... When a woman chooses to have an abortion, it's the right choice for her, no reasonable person questions that choice. The woman has to live with that decision. You are making the choice to not ever have children, your choice, it's something you will have to live with, which you seem happily willing to do. No reasonable person should question your choice. People have to live with their choices, as long as someone is willing to do that, who are we to question that. Which leads me to an aquaintance, who used to be a friend but sucked all the friend life out of me. Based on her choices, that is to have some fun and not have a baby in her 20's and 30s, she's now at age 45 and going thru all sorts of fertility treatments to try and become pregnant, unsuccessfully. She hasn't quite grasped the concept that her choices got her to where she is, I'm not sure she's being all that reasonable either. I think you have thought out your choice, weighed all the options and are making the right decision for you. The world does not children that the parents either don't want or are ambivelent about. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-23-2004, 08:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
pointbock69 Registered User Location: Dallas, TX	I don't have much to add, you all said it well. Thanks for sharing yourselves and making me feel better about my decision to not have kids!!

08-24-2004, 06:07 AM	#20 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Mal, I couldn't agree more with you about choices. So many people refuse to accept responsibility for their choices and their consequences. I think it's easy, in a society where abundance is taken for granted and science has made nearly anything possible, to develop a sense of entitlement that eclipses the roles of personal responsibility and sacrifice. I think at least part of the reason why doctors are hesitant to respect a young woman's decision to get her tubes tied is that some women come back later and regret that choice, and a lot of people, faced with a choice between taking responsibility for their own actions and blaming someone else, will blame someone else and get litigious about it. It's unfortunate that some people who can't take responsibility make it harder for the rest of us. I can also understand, though, that doctors who see a lot of women regret getting their tubes tied and then go through expensive, time-consuming, emotionally-draining fertility procedures later would be hesitant to just take a young, fertile woman at her word. It's a tricky situation however you look at it. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

08-24-2004, 06:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	I sympathize, but not in the way you might expect. (see the tubal vs vasectomy thread). I've had the one and only child I ever wanted. Now Im with a new man with whom I plan to spend the rest of my life...he's 31 and KNOWS without a doubt that he never wants kids of his own...he's happy with mine...but Im still struggling with the concept of him being so young and knowing without a doubt that he doesnt want to procreate....I struggle with feeling selfish if I let him have a V...at least I know that if I have a tubal that if, god forbid I died, and he found himself with another woman say in 5 years, that he might have changed his mind about the kids. I know that I feel that way because I've had a child...and my biological clock stopped ticking when I had her.....but its hard for a person to completely understand that another person could be so certain. I love Dave with all my heart and know him better than I know myself...but I still have difficulty wrapping my mind around his definate knowledge of what he wants....I can see why it would be more difficult for a person not "emotionally" involved to trust your instincts. I say if you're that certain you keep going until you find a doctor that will do it for you. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-24-2004, 03:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
nzv Upright	If you don't want kids, don't have them. I can't imagine being the "unwanted" kid. You still have some issues about it because you started this thread, seems like you're trying to convince someone (maybe yourself) of your choice. But just imagine that when you are old, sick and alone, who will visit you? Well there's always a nursery home if you can afford it. My grandma died with a smile on her face surrounded by her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

08-25-2004, 05:41 AM	#25 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Some people think that just because a person feels the need to blow steam and have other people comiserate with them, it means they still have "issues". I guess they dont understand the need to "rant" __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-25-2004, 12:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Hey nzv, don't you wish you could pack up and go on a week long trip just like that? Betcha can't do that with your kids. Maybe you don't know what you're missing. But it's your life __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

08-25-2004, 08:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
nzv Upright	Last edited by nzv; 08-25-2004 at 09:05 PM..

08-26-2004, 06:00 AM	#30 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	A lot of people who choose not to have children know exactly what they're missing out on. I heard someone say once that not having children, you'd miss out on life's greatest joys and greatest sorrows. I know that a lot of parents get joy and fulfillment from being parents, but I also think it's overly romanticized in our culture. It's become this cult of parenthood and if you're not a member, you're to be pitied and condescended to. Sure, I'm missing the thrill of shaping a life, watching somebody grow, but I'm also missing the pain of watching your child grow away from you, knowing you can't protect them from harm, wondering how they're going to turn out, etc. And, as I saw with my brother and my parents, the pain of watching your child turn out exactly how you DIDN'T want, and watching your child die. nzv, a lot of the reason people who don't have children feel like they have to defend their choice is because some people who have children treat us like children ourselves - we don't know what we're missing, we are selfish, we are conflicted, blah blah blah. I don't know if it's because those people are themselves conflicted about their choice to have kids and feel like they have to defend their own choices to themselves, or what, but it's really annoying to be told you don't know your own mind and that if you were thoughtful about it you'd want children. People who choose not to have kids do so for as varied reasons as people who choose to have kids, and those reasons should be respected. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

08-26-2004, 07:29 AM	#31 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	My post was edited because I forgot I have a penis. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by lurkette; 08-26-2004 at 07:41 AM.. Reason: Dude's got a willie

08-26-2004, 07:50 AM	#32 (permalink)
Redgirl Addict Location: Native America	I used to think I never wanted to have kids but as I get older (I'm 28) my clock has started ticking and I've been re-thinking it. It is just so scary to know you are completely responsible for something as defenseless as a baby. I have a lot of mothering instincts which I take out on my husband, 3 dogs, and numerous plants, so I know I am capable of devoting myself to a baby- but I would put so much pressure on myself to be the "perfect" mom that I would probably drive myself crazy in the process. I just wish everyone put as much thought into having a baby as we ladies of the TFP! It should scare the shit out of everyone, but that's no reason not to do it if you really think it's the best for you. But fucking think about it for half a second first! I would adopt, but my husband isn't a big fan of that. He's made it clear that he'd probably be happier with no kids, but if I really want to have some he'd go along with it. So then I feel like I'm forcing him to do it, and that will just create problems. Blaahhhh- what a mess going on in my head. __________________ Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

08-26-2004, 08:08 AM	#33 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Redgirl, if you and your husband had kids, they would be so beautiful! For some reason I think multi-racial kids are gorgeous. My friend Vanessa in college was black but with very light skin - blue eyes too. She and her boyfriend Raphael (really dark skinned) had a baby with the most perfect chocolate complection and bright blue eyes. That little girl is going to be breaking hearts. I hope that doesn't sound offensive at all! __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

08-31-2004, 12:17 PM	#34 (permalink)
Redgirl Addict Location: Native America	hehe... no you are right Averett. Most mixed children seem to be extra cute. Of course I'm very curious from a genetics standpoint. We could have the next Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams!! __________________ Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

08-31-2004, 03:17 PM	#35 (permalink)
Apache Insane	Well sorry to say that I didn't read every single reply word for word, just kind of skimmed through them, so I may end up repeating something somebody else has already said. Anyway...There are to many people who shouldn't have kids but are to irrisponsible to make sure it doesn't happen. So I don't think you are being sellfish at all. In fact people who are more worried about themselves and having a good time and don't take the proper precautions to not get pregnant are the ones who are selfish because in a lot of cases the kids are the ones that suffer. And I like what you said, that you would rather regret not having them, than regret having them, so I applaude your choice.

09-02-2004, 09:40 PM	#38 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	Maybe this has already been resolved but I just want to point out that the reason women who decide to remain childless may need to rant is that we're put under tremendous societal pressure to have babies whether we want to or not. It's everything from "when am I going to have some grandchildren" to "you will never know what it means to truly be a woman until you have a baby" and all the shades of expectation in between. You'd be surprised at how much judgement gets directed at a woman who doesn't want to have children. The women who have them extol their virtues endlessly. Fine, we're glad you love your kids, that's a good thing. But to be accused of somehow being "less of a woman" for not having children (not that anybody here has done that) is insulting and upsetting, and it happens more often than you might realize if you're in the baby club.

09-07-2004, 06:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
catsmuffin Upright Location: Masachusetts	Kudos,... It's wonderful that you know what you (don't) want. I have always known that I didn't want children either,...I am not Mommy material. I had a tubal ligation when I was 27 and it was one of the best things I've done. Eversince I was younger I knew and since my surgery 6 years ago I have never had a regret and know that I will not. People have no right to judge your decision. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion but, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I heard negative remarks but, they went in one ear (after I spoke my peace) and out the other. People have to remember that it's our life to live and not theirs. __________________ Peace!

09-07-2004, 09:52 PM	#40 (permalink)
StickODynomite Insane Location: Arizona :\|	I was pregnant, then miscarried June 13th, 2004.. I'm only 20. I was happy then sad then happy after the whole miscarriage (of course I felt a great loss and i cried for a week or so off an on). The more i think about it and the more i look at kids, i think to myself... i really dont know if i even want a kid. I used to say i wanted two, now im saying ONE.. maybe one day.. none? who knows. Anyway, i respect the fact that some women dont want to have children. I think my mom shouldn't have had kids .. she's 42 with 3 kids (my younger brother is 4 yrs old) and still wants to go partying ALL the time. It's all about choice and lifestyle...nothing more .. nothing less. __________________ "The human mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."