So you dont think its a good idea for non church going children to know there are other people that have a different view on evolution?

I guess I am just really really big on my child knowing there is more than one "theory" out there, same with religion or lack of it or sex ed, our children NEED to know that there is more than just "one way" out there.

I didnt watch the interview so I cant really comment one way or the other on how/what she said.

I know if it were me, because of the kind of smart ass I am, thats exactly what my answer would have been lol

Among the most awkward non-fiction television moments I have ever seen. I still squirm thinking about it.

Certainly, and believe me, I intend to introduce our future kids to all the different kinds of religion that are out there. I'll take them around to churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, and the rest--and I honestly don't know a lot of people who do that. Do you really want them to know about ALL of the different views out there, or just the Christian one vs. the "scientific" one? Because there are tons of different creation stories, all from different backgrounds, with different gods involved... if they are going to be taught creationism, I would prefer that they be taught ALL forms of creationism, from all religions, as a set class. And that would fall under world history or literature in school, not biology. I don't want my kids to lose jobs to scientists and engineers from other countries, just because they were taught that evolution might not be true. That just sets America further and further back in terms of our intelligence and scientific achievements.
Here's a link: Really? Even if you were running for one of the most important positions in the world, and you knew that millions of people would be watching you and taking every word you said very seriously?... that's the problem I have with Sarah Palin. She might be like "every American," but that's not who I want in office. I want someone who answers the question directly, without making snide remarks or avoiding the question.

yep, even if I were running for office lol Im the same no matter who Im talking to about

dont get me wrong, Im not advocating for or against this woman I dont know enough about her to do so (thanks for the vid link, I will have to watch it later, its blocked at work)

and yes I advocate teaching ALL sorts of things, not just christian beliefs. Amanda was telling me the other day how one of her church friends had no idea there were people that didnt believe in God, and I find that just sad, the kid is 16 and doesnt know what atheism is?

:oogle: Wow.

Well, glad to hear you are not necessarily for/against Palin... but it does scare the bejesus out of me that if McCain croaks, she'll be the one up there in the director's chair.

My school did teach creationism as well as evolution - 9th grade biology. We were presented with both. In most schools this was a no-no, but our school implemented it in a way to calm down the primarily-conservative parents who were freaking out over teaching evolution.

Shani,
I will agree with you on this one. While I don't like creationism, I think it IS important to teach more than one theory, and even more important to teach objectivity and critical thinking so children can learn how to decipher the information and figure out for themselves what they agree with or disagree. Discussion is always important.

I'm not going to vote for her.
I whole-heartedly agree with Stella.
But, I wasn't going to vote for McCain, either.
Regardless of who he picked.
I don't agree with the anti-choice stance... I'll never support anyone that tells me that if my serious attempts at contraception fail, I should be forced to carry a child.
And if that child should have a disease that could cause them severe pain and crippling symptoms, I should force that child to be born and go through all of that.
And that 8-year old girls who are raped by their brothers and end up pregnant should also be forced to give birth to those children...
Nope. Not going to happen.
Nor will I support someone that even looked into banning books.
Never.
I don't care if she is female or not... I don't agree with her politics. Period.
Plus, she annoys the hell out of me when she speaks and I'm starting to have trouble looking at Tina Fey now.
And I like Tine Fey, dammit!

How did the primarily-conservative parents react to this? I think I might have blown a gasket, myself. :shy: (And I used to be one of those students who protested against teaching evolution--ahh, how we change...)

It isn't the responsability of science to teach more than one viewpoint, though, so it doesn't make sense to teach creationism along with evolution.

I DO like the idea of teaching all forms of religious creation... just in a different class than science, if you please.

16 of our presidents were governors first, 15 were senators, 14 were vice-presidents, 4 generals. Of those senator 15, 3 also had been governors. 14 became president after being vice-president, 4 by election, 9 by succession and one (Nixon) who was elected at a later time after serving under Eisenhower.

I'm just going to be honest here. I didn't read all the responses, but I'm a Republican, even to go as far as to say a "yellow dog republican." I'm pro-life and pro-death penelty. I look at it this way: That baby hasn't had the chance to live, but the person that committed the crime chose to waste their life and if they're guilty they don't deserve the life that's been given to them. But alas, this was not a discussion on the death penelty. I couldn't care less that she's a woman, I admire her far more than I have anyone else that's come along.

I heard someone (I can't remember who.) comparing that horrible, vile, wretched Michelle Obama to the most amazing beautiful woman to have ever graced the White House: Jackie Kennedy. I am throughly appaled at that, and I think I always will be.

I'm not as informed as I should be, and I plan on becoming more so as November closes in. I believe Obama is a liar, and I heard him on Bill O'Riley speaking out of both sides of his mouth and Bill caught him in it. He's got a forked tounge that'll say anything to get himself into a position of power. I've read that he is planning on taking away the rights of people to Bear Arms, which means he's going to fuck with people's rights in a big way, Constitutional rights and that's not the kind of man I want to vote for nor do I want his horrible wife in there.

I'm sorry, I've warned you that I am not very informed and I know that usually uninformed people need to keep their mouth shut, but I had to speak up with what I knew. I hope I didn't (personally) offend anyone.
-----Added 19/9/2008 at 12 : 11 : 03-----
Forgive me for speaking without (fully) thinking through my reaction. Hows about I do a little bit more research before I fully commit to posting on here again.

Again, I apologize if my argument has holes.

Palin? *retch, retch*
 

I'm voting for Obama because I cannot stand McCain and Palin. I feel like Palin's nomination to the VP spot was a sham, a publicity stunt for McCain - look how he trots her out! I would be so humiliated if I were her!

But here are my categorized feelings about Palin:
Like:
1. Supports hunting - I'm from Colorado, daughter of a Division of Wildlife employee - I don't see hunting as wrong - just a part of the predator-prey cycle. Wild animals live far better lives and often die far shorter deaths than most domestic meat animals, and hunting makes sure you take responsibility, if you eat meat, for the killing your appetite requires
2. Pro-gun - I think people have the right to own guns for protection, pleasure, and to defend themselves against their governments should the need arise. I am one of those people who thinks school massacres could be prevented or made less horrific by other people having the ability to protect themselves.

Dislike:
1. Pretty much everything else:
2. Anti-choice/Pro-life: IMO she is a traitor to her sex in this regard - she seeks to oppress women and take their bodies out of their control. In combination with abstinence only sex-ed that keeps girls in the dark about birth-control options other than the most religiously-approved, yet least practical one (which actually ends up promoting teen pregnancy) why not just shout,"All women should be obligate brood sows!" My, that was an exhausting sentence..
3. I know this is not a popular view point, but I think keeping a down-syndrome child when you know about the defect before birth is abominably unethical. It's like tearing the limbs off a grasshopper, but not putting it out of it's misery because it's life is precious. And of course, she won't be doing most of the caring for the poor child anyway if she becomes VP, so she doesn't deserve any of the credit for the love and intense care needed to raise a mentally disabled child.
4. Trying to censor books, then fire the librarian. Let's destroy knowledge!
5. Against same sex-marriage.
6. I like aggressive women, but she has some serious hubris.
7. Crazy religious.

The woman stands for pretty much everything that I'm against.

DO NOT WANT.

It's a place to begin. I'm glad to see you posting here.

It's interesting that you have gone so far as to make Obama sound like Satan (forked tongue and all), and that he is married to a she-devil. From where did you form this opinion?... was it an e-mail sent to you, or is it what people are talking about in your town, or something else? I haven't heard or read about people talking about them like that before, so I'm quite curious to know where these images are coming from.

Also, what do you think of Sarah Palin, which is the subject of this thread? Hopefully you'll have a chance to read the rest of the thread first, and get back to us...

Interesting, ng. Thanks for doing that legwork. :p

Are you really saying you don't like Michelle Obama because she's not as pretty as Jackie Kennedy? I know you said you're uninformed, but there's a difference between not being as informed as you'd like and throwing around childish insults. It's a presidential election, not a preschool playground.

eh, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think Michelle Obama is beautiful. Beauty does not come in one skin color...

Public schools cannot teach creationism because of separation of church and state. One can send their child to private school or teach it home, as you do.

Its smart to keep it that way.

*

I believe I just read that Sarah Palin had her first intelligence briefing today. Her first? Thats rather presumptuous! Why is the governor of Alaska getting an intelligence briefing anyway?

Apparently she had her first meeting with heads-of-state yesterday, and the press was not allowed in other than to take a few photographs and hear the fluffy intros. I am not impressed. It's almost October, and the McCain campaign still has to keep this woman's candid responses under wraps? Her meetings with foreign heads of state has to be kept private? You've got to be kidding me. Imagine her as president. Just try to imagine. It doesn't work.

I am insulted by all this!
 

The Republican party has never been known for it's regard for women voters but this has to be the biggest insult to us yet. To put this dingbat up as vice president not only insults women everywhere but shows their contempt for the country. To think that she could become president when the US faces so many challenges at home and abroad is frightening. They speak of patriotism but are willing to put us at risk just to get elected at any cost. They have shown many times that they are not for America by the damage they have caused to our country - think the war, the economy and loss of our freedoms - but are solely for the rich and powerful.

Jan

Great first post in the Ladies Lounge, janlo. Welcome!

I have to admit I don't really care for either party this time around. I will say however that I do believe in abstinence only education. My 'sex ed' began with the person saying "when you have sex..." not if or when you feel ready but when you do and then handed us condoms, I personally was like WTF?!?! I think that parents should choose the depth of the sex education their child receives. Now don't think I'm some stupid hick who is ill informed. I fully intend to discuss w/ my daughter exactly everything she needs to know, and if and when the time comes I'm fully prepared to take her to the doctor and get BC for her.

My second opinion I want to express is that I could never vote for someone pro-choice. I don't think it's fair that girls now go out and sleep around and just because they are too lazy to remember a pill everyday or to wrap it up before they get busy that they think taking an innocent life is ok. It's not. Period. I think that that unborn child needs someone to fight for it. And I'm more than willing to do so. I don't understand why we lock up people like Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy for killing people (heck they even had somone fight for their freedom and life-AKA lawyers) but yet women can go and have MULTIPLE abortions and we think its fine. I get that people say that a baby at 10 weeks in the uterus would be unable to survive on its own and this is true, but a baby that is born 10 weeks old also would not survive if someone was not there to take care of it. If someone leaves a ten week old baby in the dumpster why is it they are arrested if found but a woman who has an abortion is able to walk free is she pays someone to murder her baby?

Now I do understand that there are situations in which it changes the outlook on abortions. I was raped when I was 18. I got severely stressed and depressed and missed 2 periods, I thought I was pregnant and terrified of taking a pregnancy test thinking it would confirm my fears. However it NEVER ONCE crossed my mind that it would be ok to aborting that baby when I thought that maybe I was. If it had really bothered me if I had been I would have put the baby up for adoption.

I don't understand how Obama can say that its ok to abort late term. How can you say that something whose heartbeat is detectable by 5-6 weeks is not a person is beyond me.

So basically all this to say that Obama=No Fucking Way in Hell For Me, and that I can agree with the moral aspects that Sarah Palin portrays

edited for : please don't hate me :)

Wow, I sure came in late on this! Where was I? Oh right...class.

Well..as I mentioned before I will be voting for my very first time in this upcoming election. I will be voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. There are a lot of things I would like to respond to. I honestly am not surprised about all the Obama supporters this board has. This is a liberal board, look at what it offers and the viewpoints expressed. I think that's great, that's why I'm on here!

I suppose one thing that really bothers me about all the comments are that people seem to personally attack Palin for her position on abstinence in schools and then criticize her parenting due to her 17 year old being pregnant. From a college students perspective who lived in Lubbock for a couple years, update guys Lubbock has an Abstinence only sex education system. That city does not teach sex education in school. Well something else to consider, I had sex education in middle school and in high school and I got pregnant. I had an abortion three weeks after I found out. I will say this, I do not believe in late term abortion. Another thing, since that happened I have been more than careful to ensure it will never happen again. I don't believe that it is feasible to blame her stance on abstinence in correlation with her pregnant daughter. Like Shani said before, it happens. Kids do stupid shit. I was in her daughters position three years ago.

I like Palin, I think she and the "Maverick" will do an amazing job in office. Like other Republicans have stated Obama scares the crap out of me. His foreign policy alone is just not my taste. I don't believe in pulling the troops out of Iraq in his "phased" policy. On his campaign website he mentions that over 1,000 Americans have died in this war and that is too many. I'm not saying its alright for Americans to die, but I do support the cause they are dying for. I believe they would die in vain if we left before the job was finished. As Palin said, victory is in sight and it will be done soon. I'm recalling the Vietnam War, WW1, WW2, Korean War, how many Americans died in those wars? More than 1,000 that's for sure. When the British were losing 1,800 men a day during WW1, I'm pretty sure that seemed pretty bad too right and they kept at the war until the job was done with help from the US. When compared to the past casualty numbers, this war hasn't been that bad.

Another thing about Obama, I was listening to one of his speeches and specifically he mentioned how Americans shouldn't be able to drive our SUVs, have our houses at 68 degrees. This sounds like a socialist if I ever saw one. I don't support Obamas tax policy. My family will be directly affected if he is elected and his supposed tax breaks make it through. He claims that families making under $250,000.00 will recieve generous tax breaks and then that families making over that amount EXCEPT 2% will have the same or lower taxes. I just don't see this happening. How can one cut the taxes for the middle and lower classes and then maintain the same taxes on the upper class and still maintain the budget?

That's all I feel like commenting on now.
Again, friendly opinions with facts stuck in.
This is the kind of board that if you are on a different side sometimes it is intimidating voicing an opinion without it being dissected for "Flawed angles" that can prove you meant something you didn't. Let us leave that for the Katie Couric. I did think her interview will Palin was one-sided and unfair. Why does Palin have to name a specific newspaper? Perhaps she wanted to be remain neutral and not place a spot light on one specifically.

She's cute and she knows it. She is, by no means to me, hot. But just because some woman that looks better than Hillary Clinton steps into the Presidential circle, guys see her as hot. She was interesting at first, but has gotten REALLY annoying. I can't stand the way she talks (not just her northern accent) but she just comes off as stuck up and 2-faced. Fake. She is putting on a show. And she comes across as very demeaning and shrewd when answering questions because she tends to slam the other party in a personal and derogatory way. She just doesn't seem professional and would melt in a true crisis. And she honestly talks as if she's pretending she knows what she's talking about most of the time. She's starting out like Bush did- being cocky and making jokes. And, yes, the whole narrow-minded teachings does not catch my fancy one bit.

When I first heard that McCain chose Palin as his running mate, I was excited. I was excited because she is a woman. It made whichever pairing wins historic and I like that. Once that excitement subsided and I began to look at policy, I was disappointed. Her policy past seems rooted in keeping knowledge/help away from people, i.e abstinence only education, banning books, etc.

I was interested to read that she and her husband have chosen to have him stay at home through most of their marriage to raise the children. Everytime I hear about how her children will be raised if she wins, I point out, even if it is to myself, that her husband will be there as he has been throughout all her other posts.

I feel that this is an election where there is undue consideration being given to Palin's chances of becoming President should anything happen to McCain. I don't feel we have anything to worry about there. We have not lost a sitting President from natural causes since FDR. We lost our then-youngest President, Kennedy, to assassination. There is being careful and then there is taking extreme caution. McCain has given up his medical privacy to show that he is healthy to take office. I feel we should be looking at Palin based on what she will do as VP, the office she is running for.