Sarah Palin: ladies, your reaction?
 

Alright, Little_Tippler had a fantastic idea in the other ladies' thread, about starting some ladies'-only politics in our very own lounge. Let's get it going with a topic that is supposed to be relevant to all of us: McCain's selection of Alaska governor Sarah Palin to be his VP running mate.

What was your initial reaction to her being chosen? Are you drawn to, repelled by, or just "meh" towards her? Did it change your view of McCain, and if so, for better or for worse?

I know very little about the political leanings of most ladies here, so any insight as to your views would be good.

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A little about me: I usually (but not always) vote Democrat, and was ambivalent about Hillary--her being a woman had nothing to do with my feelings--and decided on Obama after hearing his race speech earlier in 2008.

I was never even mildly drawn to McCain, and I was honestly downright repulsed when I heard that he had chosen a woman as his running mate. I could not believe that he would expect Hillary supporters to run towards him just because he chosen a female VP, but then I waited... and now I'm a little bit scared, I guess, to see exactly how many people (men and women alike) are leaning towards him and away from Obama.

Palin's interviews on ABC last week produced pretty visceral reactions in me, but then in talking with some female conservative friends, I began to wonder if we had watched the same program. They were full of praise for her. I guess I just don't know what the women of America really want. Or at least, what the undecided 2% of American women will want, when it comes to November 4th (since the other 98% will be split evenly between Obama and McCain, I suspect).

What do you ladies make of the situation?

She's a psycho nutbunny and can keep right the hell out of my uterus, thank you.

Well, now THERE'S an opinion!! Way to get things started, Stella. :)

Yeah, I still can't figure out how ANY Hillary supporters (assuming they were truly democrats and not just fem-ocrats) could fathom getting behind someone who is pro-choice and abstinence-only and all the rest... but what do I know. Maybe some ladies here can enlighten me... I don't mean to step on any toes, but it is a very odd contradiction of values.

I would also like to know who is taking care of her 5 children while she's on the campaign trail, especially the baby. And who will take care of that special-needs kid if she becomes VP, or god forbid, P.

My politics are similar to yours, abaya. I, too, chose Obama over Clinton, but I had been repulsed by McCain when I first heard him in the round table debates.

I wasn't shocked that he'd chosen a female running mate, but I was shocked at the praise she gained over her speech at the RNC. I hadn't made a single judgment until her speech was over. Charm, they said. She'll get the on-the-fence Hillary voters, they said. One has to wonder if those watching the pundits made their decision based on those words from the talking heads.

I found her attitude to be condescending and downright cruel. I love the idea of women in power, but Hillary and Condoleeza and others have never stooped that low. I see Palin as lacking grace and class, not to mention her politics, which set women back quite a few decades. She scares me -- not because she could end up in the highest office, but because the media has somehow convinced so many women -- if we're to believe the stats, but that's another story -- that she represents them well. I didn't see her interview last week, but all the speaking sound bytes and articles I've read reinforce what I've seen from the night of the RNC.

One can only hope that once the debates begin, these undecided voters and Palin fans will hear the facts. I can't help but wonder if the excitement of the commentators influence the opinions of the viewers, much like the judges do on American Idol.

I'm wondering if the Republicans seriously think that women will vote for someone just because they have a uterus.

The promotion of Palin as a "woman's candidate" disgusts me. This woman is as pro-life as they come, preaches abstinence-only education as sound doctrine, and is against the use of birth control (clearly). While I am a fan of working mothers, I am a fan of working mothers with evidence of balance in their lives--something I have not seen from Sarah Palin, especially since her acceptance of the VP nomination. She is crass and appeals to the lowest common denominator. Do we really want someone like that a heartbeat away from running the country? I don't think so. Furthermore, she only got a passport just over a year ago. Do we want someone who's only traveled to Kuwait shaping our foreign policy? Oh, right, I forgot--Alaska is next to Russia and somehow that makes her more of an expert on those matters than Condi Rice (not that Rice has done a good job of handling things on that front, either, but at least she's got the ACTUAL CREDENTIALS to back it up).

The Republicans contend that Obama is the elitist candidate--I think he's the educated and intelligent candidate. I see evidence of neither between either McCain or Palin.

EDIT: And abaya, I gotta say--I love this idea of a politics thread in the LL. I think it will be interesting to see what the other ladies have to say on this topic.

It's unfortunate that this might be what America is coming to... how, I really don't know, but it's definitely there.

I am not American, so I can't really say I know all that much about Sarah Palin. From what I have read, I would not be voting for her individually. Even so, this is not a case of voting for her exactly, it's for her "team". She likes to use that term, team, and "team player" a lot it seems. She appears to be very driven, and a little hot-headed. Too much so for my taste.

What I have read about her so far that I don't like (I don't know if it's all true or not but some of it will be):

- in favour of the death penalty
- against same-sex marriage
- advocates the right to bear arms including possessing handguns
- pro-life, against abortion unless it's to do with the mother's life being endangered
- promoted a predator control policy (that was never put into practice) offering $150 dollars for every wolf shot down as a way to increase the moose population in Alaska. Funny that she used to go moose hunting as a child.
- the rumour that when she was Mayor of Wasilla she asked the town librarian how she would feel about library censorship. She later tried to fire the librarian but did not succeed.
-some say she has more than once crossed the line between government and personal grievance, pursuing personal vendettas
- the issue with pressuring then firing staff so they would not fire her ex-brother-in-law
- the issue with the bridges that go nowhere

Do with this what you will. As a by-stander who has little knowledge of American Politics, I am just giving you some food for thought!

Some of those reasons alone would be enough for me not to choose her for anything. I don't think she represents women well at all. She strikes me as a bully with a pretty face.

I could not have said this better myself. I feel that it was a set up for female voters. There were far better candidates for VP. I cannot help but feel that she was chosen condescendingly to appeal to female voters. I cannot express how much she repulses me. Her insistence on imposing her beliefs upon others. Her desire to control the bodies of women. Uff da.

She was chosen for two reasons-she's female and anti-choice.
Considering her unmarried 17 year old daughter is going to have a baby, her "abstinence only" stance ain't sayin much.

I'm not impressed.

This whole election is pathetic.

Are ya still gonna vote, though?

Damn, you beat me, abaya! I was on the fence about creating this same thread earlier today but had to figure out a FedEx account and didn't. :P

I agree with her being a psycho nutbunny. Crompsin and I were in the car commuting to work/school as we heard her speech on NPR.. and I just gasped and said, "you have to be fucking kidding me. McCain is pulling a dirty trick."

I can't stand Sarah Palin. I mean, voting for McCain is bad enough, but the possibility of her being president in the case of his demise scares the shit out of me. The entire country would be fucked.

What makes her nomination for VP even worse, though, is that a couple of my friends from OSU (or former friends, I still haven't decided which) who were hardcore Hillary supporters seem to have actually decided to vote for McCain/Palin. I can't believe it and don't want to believe they'll actually dump their own beliefs just to help a woman "break the glass ceiling."

See, now WHAT the hell... this is exactly what I don't understand. How can they do that, in any kind of good conscience? Do you think they secretly just don't like Obama, and are looking for excuses?

Well, they DID spend something like 18 months digging up reasons to dislike Obama, so I guess they're just continuing that trend.

When I asked her if she was being serious about changing parties, my friend answered with "well, now I just need to seriously look at both sides." WTF, why didn't you do that before?? Were you voting for Hillary based entirely on the fact that she has ovaries??

That has to be it.

How can you be pro-death penalty and pro-life? Such a contradiction. :no:
The minute she praised Hillary in her acceptance speech, I was out.

I haven't decided who I'll vote for. It will not be Obama. It will not be McCain.

I have kind of an odd way of doing things when it comes to voting for a president. Since the popular vote never really counts in the US, and California always votes democrat, I usually choose my favorite third-party candidate so in future election years that party will appear on the ballot (a third party needs a certain percentage of votes in order to reappear on the ballot for the next election year).

Quoted for truth - I couldn't have said it better myself.

Her nomination, quite frankly, is an insult. Condi Rice, whom I have no love for, would have been a much better choice if McCain really wanted a woman as his VP. Hell, most anyone would have been a better choice. One of the first headlines I read after her selection was how she was gunning for undecided Hillary supporters - since their woman didn't make it, this "replacement" would be there to break the glass ceiling.

I am typically not a very political person but Palin really scares me!

Yes and throw it away....really am gonna hit the Cynthia Ann McKinney button.

Ah, but you can walk away with a clear concience. She stands up for human rights like nobody's business.

I will never claim to understand anything political, but I would never vote for someone who doesn't stand for what I believe just because she is a woman. I think all of the other issues together are more important than the gender of the VP. Having said that, I will not be voting for McCain/Palin.

I think it's insulting that people involved in the McCain Campaign actually think Hillary Clinton supporters are going to vote for Palin just because she's a woman-as though women are too dumb to actually care about issues and will automatically vote for someone who looks like them. I think it's both scary and sad that the McCain campaign was somewhat right, and a significant number of female Clinton supporters are now supporting McCain/Palin. I don't get how anyone who is even remotely liberal-leaning could possible vote for her, and I really don't get why any Clinton supporters would vote for her, as they're different in every possible way, other than both of them having a uterus.

This is a brilliant topic/idea. I don't know why we didn't think of this sooner!

I have always aligned myself as democrat and I was an Edwards supporter at first before joining the Obama camp. When I first heard John McCain had picked a woman for a running mate I thought it was all for show. And a cheap trick. This was before ever reading about Palin. She is very anti-woman's rights which is enough to make me run away. She supports drilling oil in Alaska, doesn't think polar bears are endangered or that global warming is man made... Completely backwards to my views all around.

Here is an interesting blog::
Women Against Sarah Palin
it's pretty empowering.

I hang around feminist blogs too so I've learned a lot about her through a feminist bent and I feel like a lot of what I'm saying is just a repeat of the things I've read.

Regarding "breaking the glass ceiling". For people to even comment that the Republicans/McCain are breaking the glass ceiling is absurd and makes me mad. I don't think the intent of the metaphor that Hillary originally said in her speech was for just ANY woman to "break the glass ceiling". I think she meant to pave the way for women to take power FOR women. Not a woman to take power that was against women. To think that Hillary supporters could fall for this is pretty sad. And I don't like the Rosie the Riveter/Sarah Palin posters either because it's pretty misguided, like they are trying to put a new face to Feminism which is actually a backlash to feminism..

That being said, I also really don't like the sexism that surrounds this campaign. VPILF? I mean, come on... As woman, we're always going to be reduced to either a fuckable slut or an old witchy hag. Nice. You never see articles about what male politicians are wearing (unless it involves a flag pin), yet there are articles about Hillary's cleavage, or Condi's boots, etc. etc.

Yeah, this has been bothering me since the beginning (even though I hate Palin)... every time I hear a guy say, "Well, I'd do her" etc... it makes me want to punch something. Why the fuck is that necessary? Why is it even permitted?
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That's what my dad has always done, in WA state, because it always goes blue... although this year, it seems like he's actually going to vote for Obama, which is kinda cool (for me). I have never particularly cared who he voted for, as long as he didn't vote republican, but this year I feel like it matters more than usual. If McCain wins, we will all be royally fucked, far more than if Obama wins. I am convinced of that.

Btw, so are all the TFP ladies non-republicans? I hope we haven't dissuaded anyone from expressing support for the other side, with our tone here... :paranoid:
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:thumbsup: I just hope that more of America's women will come to the same conclusion... it really alarms me that they just won't see it.

Nice. :thumbsup: See how the ladies of TFP can discuss a political subject and, although there are minor differences in some of our beliefs, come to the same conclusion peacefully, without even a chipped nail? :lol:

Naturally. ;) Though still, we have yet to handle someone with an opposite view...

and here is a semi opposite view....While I am not thrilled with the choice for the republican ticket I will vote for McCain/Palin. Obama scares the hell out of me like Palin scares some of you. I have never been able to get behind the democratic party.

I will say, that voting for Palin just because she is a woman its nuts and not something I'd ever consider, same as, if I were a Dem, I wouldnt vote for Hilary just because she is a woman. I'm sorry that Hil didnt get on the ticket, but its because even though I cant stand her, she doesnt scare me near as much as Obama does. The man IMO does not have the experience necessary to run this country. That said...I dont think McCain is going to do that great either. My candidate didnt make it and its weighing heavily on me that I will be voting JUST to keep Obama OUT.

/y'all dont yell at me too loud ok? lol

Hey, no yelling here... I'm just glad to see you posting in "politics." :)

Btw, on the experience note... I guess that doesn't scare me about Obama, because frankly, I thought Bush got even worse over time as he gained experience (and I already didn't like him, when he got elected). I trust intelligence and critical thinking skills more than experience, which is what won me over with Obama.

Shani, out of curiousity, what are the issues that have caused you to vote republican, more often than not?

Comes down to money, I'd like to keep mine.

I dont see Obama as "intelligent" the man didnt have the brains to figure out before hand that a lot of the american public was going to be up in arms about his association with Rev. Wright, and only AFTER we threw a fit did he make a big showing of cutting his ties to the man, to me that told me all I needed to know about his 'thinking" process.

I think part of my "republicanism" is that I grew up with Reagan, now of course he wasnt perfect, no president has been, but to ME Reagan was great, especially coming off having Jimmy Carter in office. I've always been a Bush fan (both of them) but less so this last term. I think part of my problem is that Im just disillusioned with the entire thing. No one that gets in office, no matter what the party is going to "all that"

There is one thing I'd like to address, cause every time I read/hear it it pisses me off to no end. Sure Sarah is for abstinence, arent most parents? lol Just because her 17 year old is preggie doesnt mean she failed at that. How many of us did things that were against what our parents told us? ESPECIALLY as teenagers? Its like the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink" You can tell your kids what they should/shouldnt do....but dont be surprised when they dont listen. Her daughter is no different that the rest of america's teenagers just because she holds a government office. Shoot, its like being a preachers kid lol I cant tell you how many of those that I've know that are the complete opposite of what their daddy's preach lol

Good to know more about your background, Shani! So you are more of a financial conservative than a moral one, is that correct?Right, but don't you think that sex education might have done more good than harm, in this situation? Clearly the abstinence "education" didn't do much for the girl, anyway... what would be the harm in teaching her how to have sex responsibly? That's the issue I have with it... not in what happened with her daughter, but in that Palin wants to institute abstinence-only education... with obvious proof that it just plain doesn't work, even in her own family.

As for the Reverend Wright situation... I'm not sure what that has to do with Obama's actual IQ, though it might say that he's not very good at being a "smart politician" (though I don't trust those, anyway). Does his Harvard Law degree and achievements really mean nothing to you, compared to, say... McCain graduating at the rock-bottom of his class, and Palin switching colleges 5 or 6 times in order to finally graduate? Why doesn't actual educational achievement mean something, when it comes to politicians?

I'm also curious to know what it was that you liked about Bush Jr, and what made you become disillusioned in this most recent term.

Sorry, no his law degree means crap to me. I have an accounting degree, does that mean I could handle running the fiscal nature of government? No it doesnt, it might mean he's better equipped to understand some things but his "street smarts" have to come into play, not just his IQ when dealing with the public. There are a lot of people in the world that might do badly in school but be very smart...my husband is a great example of that. He was one of those dyslexics in the 80's that just fell thru the cracks and while his grades were awful and he barely graduated, I would match his intelligence against a lot of people any day. I do not equate where you finished in your class with how smart you are. Hell I tested with an IQ of 161 in the 11th grade but yet I flunked American Government (yeah, laugh lol) because I was more interested in flirting with the guy that sat next to me than listening to a boring old teacher.

No I dont think sex ed did more harm....why would I? Do you blame a mother who taught her son that killing is wrong when her son turned into a serial killer? Am I to blame because my child just decided it was really cool to cut her herself (not in an Emo way, but cause she thought it would be cool to have some bands name carved in the back of her hand) when we've actually had that kind of discussion and I've tried to explain to her it was wrong? Is it Ngdawg's fault (and I hope you dont mind that I use this example NG) that her child cut herself (in an Emo way) when Im sure they've had some conversation in the past about it? I think blaming Palin because her daughter is preggie is an uninformed choice to make. Now...do I believe in abstinence only education? No, but I dont think its to blame for her child being with child.

Yes I am not a moral conservative....and I think the governement (and religion) should stay out of my bedroom.

Like I said, there isnt anyone I agree 100% with. Abortion...Im def pro choice, but even I have a limit. I had an abortion 21 years ago, at the clinic I was with women that were there for their 7th and 8th time.....I do not agree with abortion as a substitute for the pill.

As for Bush Jr, I was just so glad to get clinton out of office, AND I was younger and had been pleased with is father....2nd term has pretty much been a dud.

Nope, don't mind at all. :)

I don't think either one of these candidates, or any of them, actually, are totally "qualified" to sit in the oval office. The "best" one would actually be Palin as she's a governor, albeit of a sparsely populated state.
Governors are like mini-presidents-overseers of everything needed to run the state they govern. Senators are, by and large, special interest representatives that don't oversee anything, don't have to deal with anything outside of their jurisdiction/interests and only deal with law-making, etc. Elementary, simplified views, I know, but fits in a nutshell.
Obama is green, a kid in the world of politics. McCain is a curmedgeon. Polar opposites end up being the same thing in the end....

I am a registered republican, although my leanings are probably more libertarian than conservative. I am not thrilled with any of the options, but will vote for McCain as the lesser of the two evils.

I am pro-choice within limits. I do not support late term abortion. I do not want, nor do I think we need, to be taxed any more than we already are.

As for Palin's abstinence only policy.... That works for me, and here's why. As a parent it is my right and responsibility to educate my children on moral or religious issues. Nowhere does her policy infringe on my ability to provide my daughters with additional information in accordance with my belief system. I happen to be very liberal in that respect, but someone else may not be and that is their right too. That being said, I have a daughter that became pregnant at 17. She had all the information and services of a large urban public school system, it didn't change the outcome. Another daughter has chosen abstinence, and I support that decision as well. Teens will be teens. You can only provide the best counsel and information, then they fly on their own.

I agree with ShaniFaye in that I want to government out of my bedroom, but I also want them out of the rest of my home, my wallet, my kids minds, and my body.

Good morning, Ladies :)

Maybe I phrased the question wrong... what I meant was, when it comes down to abstinence-only education vs. sex education... don't you think that sex education would have helped Palin's daughter to make better decisions, in the end? That is, for me, abstinence education does more harm than sex education, in the long run. That's all I meant. I don't mean to blame Palin for her child getting pregnant--far from it!--but I do think that pretending that kids will stop having sex, just because we preach abstinence at them, is naive. That's what her daughter serves as an example of, that's all. I think the more prepared they are for when they do have sex, whenever that will be, the better off everyone will be.So... even with 4 years of presidential experience beforehand, and all the time he spent as Texas governor, he still turned out to be a dud, right? That's all I'm trying to say about Obama... experience really is not everything. In Bush's case, obviously experience has actually proven to make him a worse president...

Peaches, welcome. It's good to get alternative views going in here... and I hope we are keeping the discussion civil enough for everyone, still.

First, I wonder if governing a state or city would truly make one more qualified than one who has management experience and knowledge of national and international issues. It's a lot like running a business and I think there are many people could handle it.

Does anyone know how many Presidents we've had that were actually Governors or Mayors first? I'm not so sure that experience in the city/state has made them better in the White House. In recent years, maybe more have been in higher offices, but I don't think anyone's quite "prepared" to tackle the issues of a nation. Sure, the Pres has the power of veto, but he also has teams of advisors to help him learn the ropes and discuss the potential repercussions of decisions. I'd rather have someone who can intellectualize and has vision, making informed decisions than someone who, in my opinion, has a warped viewpoint and can make decisions that may negatively change the course of the future for my children.

I hear ya, Shani, on her daughter's pregnancy. It's relevant but it's not. :p

But since you brought it up, you probably know I have three daughters over the age of (almost) 15 and I've always been open about sex with them, allowed them to participate in sex ed in school and encouraged them to come to me when they're in love and feel ready. My now 25-year old came to me to ask what I thought when she was 18 and in love. I didn't preach at 'em or forbid them; I discussed and taught them to prepare for reality and respect themselves.

Yes, they do make their own decisions. But they're based on being armed to make choices in the real world, not by sheltering them from it. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the parent to guide and teach, the schools (govt) should help to reinforce.

As for taxes, check out what yours would be. I think I posted this elsewhere, but it also contains links to plans from both sides.

ObamaTaxCut.com

See, I dont think its the schools job to education my daughter on sex, its MY job, but then I hate government schools so much she is home schooled lol

ok abaya I see what you meant now, yes I do agree that abstinence ONLY ed can be detrimental, I think my child should be presented with all available choices when learning about something, there is no way I can expect her to make an informed decision when she's not informed lol

Abaya, just because Bush's 2nd term was a dud in my opinion he didnt do anything that terrified the hell out of me the way the thought of Obama handling any foriegn policy does
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I know I have typo's in that last post....but I have to get to TFP thru a stupid proxy while Im at work, and it wont let me edit!!!

Yeah, exactly what I am talking about! :) I just don't get abstinence-only education... what's the harm in giving information? If parents raise their kids right, then someone teaching them about sex in school isn't going to make a dent in the kid's risky sexual behavior. The parents' influence is going to be stronger, whether that's positive or negative. It's when the parenting goes wrong at home, AND the kid gets no information at school, that it all goes to shit and they start racking up STD's and the like. I just think that somewhere, home or school, someone's gotta give the kid information about what happens between a penis and a vagina, a mouth and a penis, a penis and an anus, etc. Unfortunately, many parents don't even want to bring it up or talk about it, because of their own issues about sex. Which is why the whole thing is so frustrating... (not talking about you at all, Shani, just going off further on my opinion about abstinence-only education).
Yeah, I guess that whole war thing terrified the hell out of me, far more than anything I can imagine Obama doing, but we can have different opinions.

Once again, I'm just so glad to see you posting about Politics, hooray!!! The Ladies' Lounge is where it's at... :D

The arguments that the McCain-Palin campaign are making about Palin's mayoral and gubernatorial experience bolstering her VP qualifications...

...would be much stronger for Palin had she not essentially outsourced a chunk of the mayoral duties that would have given her this executive experience (As Mayor of Wasilla, Palin Cut Own Duties, Left Trail of Bad Blood - washingtonpost.com).

In Bristol's case, she is actually very different than many of America's teenagers, because Sarah Palin's government office paycheck can support Bristol's teenage pregnancy. While Bristol is bringing her baby to term in the economic security and social sanctioning of her family, Palin's proposed abstinence only and anti-abortion policies would deny access to contraception and abortion services to other American teenagers; as a result, maybe they end up pregnant and maybe—more than likely—their families can't support the birth of their kids. But why have these children (yes, children) go through with this when you know they're going to have sex whether they've been taught to abstain or not, and their pregnancies could have been prevented to begin with?

THANK YOU for mentioning this. Can we also touch on the horrible, HORRIBLE double standards in the media's treatment of Hillary vs. Palin? i.e. fair-game questions for Hillary about her experience are suddenly completely off-limits and "too sexist" to ask Palin, whereas blatant sexism was rampant throughout Hillary's candidacy for the nomination?

Needless to say... I can't stand Sarah Palin. I think she's hypocritical, manipulative (sure she's a politician but in my estimation she's worse than many others) and has become a charicature of herself, in part voluntarily, and I am sick and tired of the media and rabid supporters alike being so obsessed with her.

Oh, that was priceless. :thumbsup:


I'll admit, when I first heard McCain had selected Palin, I was a little impressed... until I actually learned about her. She scares the shit out of me. She is the polar opposite of me on every important issue. I just can't wrap my mind around WHY people would think abstinence only education is the best choice...and Creationism? In schools? No. Way. I also don't like the fact that she's in favor of ANWR drilling.


...I could go on, but basically, everything she's said, ever, I disagree with.

Ah yes, creationism, I'd nearly forgotten... yes, let's send America back to the scientific dark ages, since American kids are already performing so extraordinarily poorly in math and science compared to the rest of the world. Teaching creationism is going to give us a boost in engineers and scientists, I'm sure. :p

And this line about "Well, I can see Russia from an island in Alaska!" as an excuse for foreign policy experience?... for those who support the Republican ticket, can you help me understand your reaction to that sentence?

I know this is a totally different topic, but why cant schools teach creationism ALONG with evolution? It harks back to wanting my child to learn about all the different viewpoints out there....again, another reason she is home schooled and not governmentally (is that a word?) educated lol

Am I the only one that thinks that Russia comment was an attempt to just be funny?

That's what church is for, I say.The problem is that she didn't really give any other convincing answer. If it was a joke, she didn't have a very good follow-up to prove that she was joking. Her reaction to the "Bush doctrine" question last week on ABC was really quite difficult to watch...

So you dont think its a good idea for non church going children to know there are other people that have a different view on evolution?

I guess I am just really really big on my child knowing there is more than one "theory" out there, same with religion or lack of it or sex ed, our children NEED to know that there is more than just "one way" out there.

I didnt watch the interview so I cant really comment one way or the other on how/what she said.

I know if it were me, because of the kind of smart ass I am, thats exactly what my answer would have been lol

Among the most awkward non-fiction television moments I have ever seen. I still squirm thinking about it.

Certainly, and believe me, I intend to introduce our future kids to all the different kinds of religion that are out there. I'll take them around to churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, and the rest--and I honestly don't know a lot of people who do that. Do you really want them to know about ALL of the different views out there, or just the Christian one vs. the "scientific" one? Because there are tons of different creation stories, all from different backgrounds, with different gods involved... if they are going to be taught creationism, I would prefer that they be taught ALL forms of creationism, from all religions, as a set class. And that would fall under world history or literature in school, not biology. I don't want my kids to lose jobs to scientists and engineers from other countries, just because they were taught that evolution might not be true. That just sets America further and further back in terms of our intelligence and scientific achievements.
Here's a link: Really? Even if you were running for one of the most important positions in the world, and you knew that millions of people would be watching you and taking every word you said very seriously?... that's the problem I have with Sarah Palin. She might be like "every American," but that's not who I want in office. I want someone who answers the question directly, without making snide remarks or avoiding the question.

yep, even if I were running for office lol Im the same no matter who Im talking to about

dont get me wrong, Im not advocating for or against this woman I dont know enough about her to do so (thanks for the vid link, I will have to watch it later, its blocked at work)

and yes I advocate teaching ALL sorts of things, not just christian beliefs. Amanda was telling me the other day how one of her church friends had no idea there were people that didnt believe in God, and I find that just sad, the kid is 16 and doesnt know what atheism is?

:oogle: Wow.

Well, glad to hear you are not necessarily for/against Palin... but it does scare the bejesus out of me that if McCain croaks, she'll be the one up there in the director's chair.

My school did teach creationism as well as evolution - 9th grade biology. We were presented with both. In most schools this was a no-no, but our school implemented it in a way to calm down the primarily-conservative parents who were freaking out over teaching evolution.

Shani,
I will agree with you on this one. While I don't like creationism, I think it IS important to teach more than one theory, and even more important to teach objectivity and critical thinking so children can learn how to decipher the information and figure out for themselves what they agree with or disagree. Discussion is always important.

I'm not going to vote for her.
I whole-heartedly agree with Stella.
But, I wasn't going to vote for McCain, either.
Regardless of who he picked.
I don't agree with the anti-choice stance... I'll never support anyone that tells me that if my serious attempts at contraception fail, I should be forced to carry a child.
And if that child should have a disease that could cause them severe pain and crippling symptoms, I should force that child to be born and go through all of that.
And that 8-year old girls who are raped by their brothers and end up pregnant should also be forced to give birth to those children...
Nope. Not going to happen.
Nor will I support someone that even looked into banning books.
Never.
I don't care if she is female or not... I don't agree with her politics. Period.
Plus, she annoys the hell out of me when she speaks and I'm starting to have trouble looking at Tina Fey now.
And I like Tine Fey, dammit!

How did the primarily-conservative parents react to this? I think I might have blown a gasket, myself. :shy: (And I used to be one of those students who protested against teaching evolution--ahh, how we change...)

It isn't the responsability of science to teach more than one viewpoint, though, so it doesn't make sense to teach creationism along with evolution.

I DO like the idea of teaching all forms of religious creation... just in a different class than science, if you please.

16 of our presidents were governors first, 15 were senators, 14 were vice-presidents, 4 generals. Of those senator 15, 3 also had been governors. 14 became president after being vice-president, 4 by election, 9 by succession and one (Nixon) who was elected at a later time after serving under Eisenhower.

I'm just going to be honest here. I didn't read all the responses, but I'm a Republican, even to go as far as to say a "yellow dog republican." I'm pro-life and pro-death penelty. I look at it this way: That baby hasn't had the chance to live, but the person that committed the crime chose to waste their life and if they're guilty they don't deserve the life that's been given to them. But alas, this was not a discussion on the death penelty. I couldn't care less that she's a woman, I admire her far more than I have anyone else that's come along.

I heard someone (I can't remember who.) comparing that horrible, vile, wretched Michelle Obama to the most amazing beautiful woman to have ever graced the White House: Jackie Kennedy. I am throughly appaled at that, and I think I always will be.

I'm not as informed as I should be, and I plan on becoming more so as November closes in. I believe Obama is a liar, and I heard him on Bill O'Riley speaking out of both sides of his mouth and Bill caught him in it. He's got a forked tounge that'll say anything to get himself into a position of power. I've read that he is planning on taking away the rights of people to Bear Arms, which means he's going to fuck with people's rights in a big way, Constitutional rights and that's not the kind of man I want to vote for nor do I want his horrible wife in there.

I'm sorry, I've warned you that I am not very informed and I know that usually uninformed people need to keep their mouth shut, but I had to speak up with what I knew. I hope I didn't (personally) offend anyone.
-----Added 19/9/2008 at 12 : 11 : 03-----
Forgive me for speaking without (fully) thinking through my reaction. Hows about I do a little bit more research before I fully commit to posting on here again.

Again, I apologize if my argument has holes.

Palin? *retch, retch*
 

I'm voting for Obama because I cannot stand McCain and Palin. I feel like Palin's nomination to the VP spot was a sham, a publicity stunt for McCain - look how he trots her out! I would be so humiliated if I were her!

But here are my categorized feelings about Palin:
Like:
1. Supports hunting - I'm from Colorado, daughter of a Division of Wildlife employee - I don't see hunting as wrong - just a part of the predator-prey cycle. Wild animals live far better lives and often die far shorter deaths than most domestic meat animals, and hunting makes sure you take responsibility, if you eat meat, for the killing your appetite requires
2. Pro-gun - I think people have the right to own guns for protection, pleasure, and to defend themselves against their governments should the need arise. I am one of those people who thinks school massacres could be prevented or made less horrific by other people having the ability to protect themselves.

Dislike:
1. Pretty much everything else:
2. Anti-choice/Pro-life: IMO she is a traitor to her sex in this regard - she seeks to oppress women and take their bodies out of their control. In combination with abstinence only sex-ed that keeps girls in the dark about birth-control options other than the most religiously-approved, yet least practical one (which actually ends up promoting teen pregnancy) why not just shout,"All women should be obligate brood sows!" My, that was an exhausting sentence..
3. I know this is not a popular view point, but I think keeping a down-syndrome child when you know about the defect before birth is abominably unethical. It's like tearing the limbs off a grasshopper, but not putting it out of it's misery because it's life is precious. And of course, she won't be doing most of the caring for the poor child anyway if she becomes VP, so she doesn't deserve any of the credit for the love and intense care needed to raise a mentally disabled child.
4. Trying to censor books, then fire the librarian. Let's destroy knowledge!
5. Against same sex-marriage.
6. I like aggressive women, but she has some serious hubris.
7. Crazy religious.

The woman stands for pretty much everything that I'm against.

DO NOT WANT.

It's a place to begin. I'm glad to see you posting here.

It's interesting that you have gone so far as to make Obama sound like Satan (forked tongue and all), and that he is married to a she-devil. From where did you form this opinion?... was it an e-mail sent to you, or is it what people are talking about in your town, or something else? I haven't heard or read about people talking about them like that before, so I'm quite curious to know where these images are coming from.

Also, what do you think of Sarah Palin, which is the subject of this thread? Hopefully you'll have a chance to read the rest of the thread first, and get back to us...

Interesting, ng. Thanks for doing that legwork. :p

Are you really saying you don't like Michelle Obama because she's not as pretty as Jackie Kennedy? I know you said you're uninformed, but there's a difference between not being as informed as you'd like and throwing around childish insults. It's a presidential election, not a preschool playground.

eh, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think Michelle Obama is beautiful. Beauty does not come in one skin color...

Public schools cannot teach creationism because of separation of church and state. One can send their child to private school or teach it home, as you do.

Its smart to keep it that way.

*

I believe I just read that Sarah Palin had her first intelligence briefing today. Her first? Thats rather presumptuous! Why is the governor of Alaska getting an intelligence briefing anyway?

Apparently she had her first meeting with heads-of-state yesterday, and the press was not allowed in other than to take a few photographs and hear the fluffy intros. I am not impressed. It's almost October, and the McCain campaign still has to keep this woman's candid responses under wraps? Her meetings with foreign heads of state has to be kept private? You've got to be kidding me. Imagine her as president. Just try to imagine. It doesn't work.

I am insulted by all this!
 

The Republican party has never been known for it's regard for women voters but this has to be the biggest insult to us yet. To put this dingbat up as vice president not only insults women everywhere but shows their contempt for the country. To think that she could become president when the US faces so many challenges at home and abroad is frightening. They speak of patriotism but are willing to put us at risk just to get elected at any cost. They have shown many times that they are not for America by the damage they have caused to our country - think the war, the economy and loss of our freedoms - but are solely for the rich and powerful.

Jan

Great first post in the Ladies Lounge, janlo. Welcome!

I have to admit I don't really care for either party this time around. I will say however that I do believe in abstinence only education. My 'sex ed' began with the person saying "when you have sex..." not if or when you feel ready but when you do and then handed us condoms, I personally was like WTF?!?! I think that parents should choose the depth of the sex education their child receives. Now don't think I'm some stupid hick who is ill informed. I fully intend to discuss w/ my daughter exactly everything she needs to know, and if and when the time comes I'm fully prepared to take her to the doctor and get BC for her.

My second opinion I want to express is that I could never vote for someone pro-choice. I don't think it's fair that girls now go out and sleep around and just because they are too lazy to remember a pill everyday or to wrap it up before they get busy that they think taking an innocent life is ok. It's not. Period. I think that that unborn child needs someone to fight for it. And I'm more than willing to do so. I don't understand why we lock up people like Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy for killing people (heck they even had somone fight for their freedom and life-AKA lawyers) but yet women can go and have MULTIPLE abortions and we think its fine. I get that people say that a baby at 10 weeks in the uterus would be unable to survive on its own and this is true, but a baby that is born 10 weeks old also would not survive if someone was not there to take care of it. If someone leaves a ten week old baby in the dumpster why is it they are arrested if found but a woman who has an abortion is able to walk free is she pays someone to murder her baby?

Now I do understand that there are situations in which it changes the outlook on abortions. I was raped when I was 18. I got severely stressed and depressed and missed 2 periods, I thought I was pregnant and terrified of taking a pregnancy test thinking it would confirm my fears. However it NEVER ONCE crossed my mind that it would be ok to aborting that baby when I thought that maybe I was. If it had really bothered me if I had been I would have put the baby up for adoption.

I don't understand how Obama can say that its ok to abort late term. How can you say that something whose heartbeat is detectable by 5-6 weeks is not a person is beyond me.

So basically all this to say that Obama=No Fucking Way in Hell For Me, and that I can agree with the moral aspects that Sarah Palin portrays

edited for : please don't hate me :)

Wow, I sure came in late on this! Where was I? Oh right...class.

Well..as I mentioned before I will be voting for my very first time in this upcoming election. I will be voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. There are a lot of things I would like to respond to. I honestly am not surprised about all the Obama supporters this board has. This is a liberal board, look at what it offers and the viewpoints expressed. I think that's great, that's why I'm on here!

I suppose one thing that really bothers me about all the comments are that people seem to personally attack Palin for her position on abstinence in schools and then criticize her parenting due to her 17 year old being pregnant. From a college students perspective who lived in Lubbock for a couple years, update guys Lubbock has an Abstinence only sex education system. That city does not teach sex education in school. Well something else to consider, I had sex education in middle school and in high school and I got pregnant. I had an abortion three weeks after I found out. I will say this, I do not believe in late term abortion. Another thing, since that happened I have been more than careful to ensure it will never happen again. I don't believe that it is feasible to blame her stance on abstinence in correlation with her pregnant daughter. Like Shani said before, it happens. Kids do stupid shit. I was in her daughters position three years ago.

I like Palin, I think she and the "Maverick" will do an amazing job in office. Like other Republicans have stated Obama scares the crap out of me. His foreign policy alone is just not my taste. I don't believe in pulling the troops out of Iraq in his "phased" policy. On his campaign website he mentions that over 1,000 Americans have died in this war and that is too many. I'm not saying its alright for Americans to die, but I do support the cause they are dying for. I believe they would die in vain if we left before the job was finished. As Palin said, victory is in sight and it will be done soon. I'm recalling the Vietnam War, WW1, WW2, Korean War, how many Americans died in those wars? More than 1,000 that's for sure. When the British were losing 1,800 men a day during WW1, I'm pretty sure that seemed pretty bad too right and they kept at the war until the job was done with help from the US. When compared to the past casualty numbers, this war hasn't been that bad.

Another thing about Obama, I was listening to one of his speeches and specifically he mentioned how Americans shouldn't be able to drive our SUVs, have our houses at 68 degrees. This sounds like a socialist if I ever saw one. I don't support Obamas tax policy. My family will be directly affected if he is elected and his supposed tax breaks make it through. He claims that families making under $250,000.00 will recieve generous tax breaks and then that families making over that amount EXCEPT 2% will have the same or lower taxes. I just don't see this happening. How can one cut the taxes for the middle and lower classes and then maintain the same taxes on the upper class and still maintain the budget?

That's all I feel like commenting on now.
Again, friendly opinions with facts stuck in.
This is the kind of board that if you are on a different side sometimes it is intimidating voicing an opinion without it being dissected for "Flawed angles" that can prove you meant something you didn't. Let us leave that for the Katie Couric. I did think her interview will Palin was one-sided and unfair. Why does Palin have to name a specific newspaper? Perhaps she wanted to be remain neutral and not place a spot light on one specifically.

She's cute and she knows it. She is, by no means to me, hot. But just because some woman that looks better than Hillary Clinton steps into the Presidential circle, guys see her as hot. She was interesting at first, but has gotten REALLY annoying. I can't stand the way she talks (not just her northern accent) but she just comes off as stuck up and 2-faced. Fake. She is putting on a show. And she comes across as very demeaning and shrewd when answering questions because she tends to slam the other party in a personal and derogatory way. She just doesn't seem professional and would melt in a true crisis. And she honestly talks as if she's pretending she knows what she's talking about most of the time. She's starting out like Bush did- being cocky and making jokes. And, yes, the whole narrow-minded teachings does not catch my fancy one bit.

When I first heard that McCain chose Palin as his running mate, I was excited. I was excited because she is a woman. It made whichever pairing wins historic and I like that. Once that excitement subsided and I began to look at policy, I was disappointed. Her policy past seems rooted in keeping knowledge/help away from people, i.e abstinence only education, banning books, etc.

I was interested to read that she and her husband have chosen to have him stay at home through most of their marriage to raise the children. Everytime I hear about how her children will be raised if she wins, I point out, even if it is to myself, that her husband will be there as he has been throughout all her other posts.

I feel that this is an election where there is undue consideration being given to Palin's chances of becoming President should anything happen to McCain. I don't feel we have anything to worry about there. We have not lost a sitting President from natural causes since FDR. We lost our then-youngest President, Kennedy, to assassination. There is being careful and then there is taking extreme caution. McCain has given up his medical privacy to show that he is healthy to take office. I feel we should be looking at Palin based on what she will do as VP, the office she is running for.