Sweetpea

Ladies, I'm trying to gain some insight here on the female mind and the topic of comparing oneself to others.

I have always been into fitness, but In the past couple years, I've toned up and now weigh 125 at 5'5".
My way of dress and fitness has caused a backlash amongst the women I know. I was more accepted when I was 10 pounds heavier a few years ago.

I don't dress in extremely revealing clothes, but I do were clothes/jeans that are fitted and the occasional short skirt, I typically wear heels. I wear a little make up and I do my hair, but that's about it.

My sister in law accused me of trying to outshine her when I was at a family function saying "well, don't you look nice, You always make Me look bad don't you?"
Other family members make similar comments "oh, you just had to wear make up." etc.
I was getting coffee and a woman turned to me out of the blue when I asked for extra whip cream on my mocha, glared at me and said "well, that's fine for you to get that isn't it? I bet you don't even count calories" To which I just looked at her dumbfounded, the sheer venom in her voice was shocking.

I personally don't care wether or not someone has sweats on and their hair in a ponytail all the time, or if they are dressed up to the nine's to go to the grocery store. It doesn't matter to me as long as they are happy with themselves.

I don't see why some women find the need to apparently penalize me for taking a little extra time on my appearance. I'm not out to compete with other women.
I excercise and dress the way I do because it makes me feel good about myself, I don't see why how I look has to affect anyone else, let alone why they take it upon themselves to comment on it or be upset about it.

I do sometimes compare myself to other women, but I don't begrudge them for it.

I know that some self esteem for women in our culture is attatched to physical characteristics, the media is partially to blame for this.

But why this culture of comparing? And why get so upset over someone else wearing makeup?
Shouldn't we be bonding together against defining ourselves by our appearance instead of piting ourselves against one another?

please share your insights, experiences or comments.

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surferlove007

I've had a similar situation happen to me with my sister. I take about 30 minutes to get dressed and showered and hair/makeup in the mornings before I go out. My sister calls me vain for taking time to look nice. I feel better when I feel I look good, makes me feel confident when I walk out the door in public. I understand people judge you based on appearance but I don't care too much, if I think I look decent then thats fine for me. Don't get me wrong, when I go to class sometimes its a messy bun and a baseball hat and a t-shirt. There are some days where you don't feel like messing with it. Also like you Sweetpea, I work out at the gym a good amount. I don't get rude comments thrown at me like you have, which is quite innapropriate it sounds but I think I'm a decent size and I like myself. Nothing wrong with comparing yourself, I've gotten several ideas to enhance my own appearance through comparisons, nothing wrong with that.
I think some women are a bit too jealous for their own good and others needn't worry about how they look, they're already satisfied.

Gilda

I'm skinny and have an insanely high metabolism. I'm a natural size 2, and take care to dress nicely whenever I go out. I've occasionally gotten comments regarding how lucky I am to be able to eat whatever I want and find clothes that and look good on me. I eat healthy, and it really isn't easy to find clothes at most stores that fit someone built like I am. Looking nice takes some effort on my part.

I do compare myself to other women and usually come up wanting, though it isn't for the purpose of evaluating them, but to evaluate myself to determine if I'm appropriately dressed for the situation, if I'm too formal or not formal enough. In short, I'm checking to see if I fit in (good) or stand out (not so good). I use the comparisons as a way of evaluating myself, not others, and I'd never make any negative comments on another person's appearance. I'm more the kind of person who will try to find something positive to focus on if another woman asks me how she looks before getting to any sort of criticism or suggestion for improvement.

The situations that you describe are fueled by jealousy. It's a product of evolutionary biology and cultural values. Though we've moved beyond the era when a woman's value was determined by the status of the man she's able to attract and marry, the cultural values that came from those times still exist. It's an oversimplification, and we're moving away from it, but we still live in a society in which a man's apparent value is primarily what he can do and provide, and a woman's value is based on how she looks.

It's a distillation of the culture of competition that comes from the times when men competed with each other to provide, and women competed for the best men.

This isn't going to be a conscious process. The women who make rude remarks to others about their appearance are exhibiting the ingrained culture of competition, as well as a complete lack of tact and common courtesy.

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Sultana

Hmmm. Like Sweetpea, I have only in the relatively recent past (I'd say, 3-4 years maybe) become fit and toned and happy with myself.

I have gotten comments like "Boy, I wish I could eat (whatever) like you and not worry about it!", usually the one time every three months or so I indulge in (whatever). But I've never gotten any heat or venom from it. And I usually respond along the lines of, "Oh, believe me, I pay for this just like everyone else!"

If I got the comments and attitude you did, sweetpea, I'd suggest responding, "Jealousy makes you look old (or fat)" LOL!

Not that I'd have to nerve to say that, but I'd love it if *you* did! :P

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My goal? To fulfill my potential.

mixedmedia

I find as I get older, I compare myself to other women less and less. I'm pretty happy with the way I look overall. If I see a woman that I think is attractive I will appreciate her good looks and leave it at that - I do like to look at pretty women! When I was younger though, while I wouldn't have made any comments to the woman, I might have silently yearned to be blessed with some of her features.

Occasionally I'll hear comments from women similar to the ones you have gotten, sweetpea, but I don't pay them much mind. I just smile and shrug my shoulders. What could I possibly say? I don't think I've ever been told such a thing in a mean-spirited way, though. Obviously the woman in the coffee shop has issues, lol. I try to take it in stride because really, looking the way I do certainly hasn't paid any bills, fed my children or made my life easier in any measurable way. I think Gilda's points about instinctual competitive impulses are valid, but I also think some of it just plain old "the grass is greener" sort of reasoning.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ShaniFaye

I have to say....I eat what I want and dress the way I want. No, Im not a skinny chick but I've never had any complaints from the men I dated and my hubby loves the way I am (he is not attracted to skinny girls at all)

I have started exercising some, just because for the first time since I was 13 I can do it without pain, but I do it more for more stamina, because the surgery took a lot of that away from me, than for anything else.

Im gonna die of "something" anyway...I intend to enjoy my food until I do hehehe you wont catch me eating anything "fat free" or low calorie, If I got hit by a truck tomorrow I would not want my last thought to be...I could have had that oatmeal cookie instead of a ricecake something or other

Even when Im "trying" to appear extra pretty at the most it takes me 45 minutes to get ready, including my shower

do what you want to be HAPPY, who cares what other women think?

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cadre

I have never gotten comments like that sweetpea, but if I was at the coffee shop with you I would probably retort the comment. That is just plain rude and in cases like that I rarely let it slide. I have gotten comments on how I look but very few in the way of truly negative things.

Personally, the only reason I compare myself to others is for ideas on styles and makeups. I know that some people are more blessed than myself but it would appear that I did not get the short stick. I am 5'3" and 110 pounds but I am still young. By looking at my older sisters and my mother I know that I will have issues keeping my weight down as my body matures but I am not all that concerned with it. I do exercise and eat reasonably well, not as much as I should but I've been rock climbing so my arms are getting buff. I can spend alot of time getting dressed or a small amount of time, it really depends on what I feel like. I love to look good because it makes me feel good but I love the way my body looks so I am comfortable with alot of different things.

However I have noticed that my boyfriend prefers me dressed down, I don't think he understands that I dress up for myself and not him or anyone else. Anyone have that problem with their SO?

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sillygirl

I constantly compare myself to others, but like pretty much everyone has said, I don't make comments. When I was a bit lighter (and more happy with myself) occasionally a friend would say something, or even my mom. But I really didn't dress up. I'd make sure I had my hair brushed, but usually in a ponytail, and I'd even go to school in PJs.

I would not be one to let comments like those slide, SP

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amonkie

I know I am not the current middle mental ideal that many people seem to have - I worry about what is healthy for ME ... and I exercise because when i don't, i feel so sluggish, and just kinda bleh all the time. The physical results are a nice reward, to be sure.

I guess I mostly see it as I'm not much of a person out to get attention to begin with, and in a way i don't mind blending into the woodwork.

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abaya

Oh, I'm such a slob by nature... It takes SERIOUS motivation for me to put more than minimal effort into my appearance. I guess I sort of take pride in that... last night I went to the corner mart for milk at 11pm wearing my blue flannel pajama pants, a black wool overcoat (formal), a lime green scarf, and slip-on grandma-like Börn sandals. All these frat and sorority people were in line buying stuff for finals studying, and I was just standing there, sort of realizing that I probably looked a bit odd, but oh well. I kind of enjoy being odd, most of the time.

I'm mostly comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt, though at night I do feel sexier if I am dressed up in a nice tank-top and dark jeans, wearing some make-up. Mostly it's just because I like to change things up once a week, on a night out with my husband, but not because I am around other women necessarily. The only thing that bugs me about other women is when they dress like complete sluts (usually the sorority girls, on weekend nights), but you get used to it in a college town.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

surferlove007

Yea, I'm in college now also however I am not in a sorority. So many of those girls dress like hookers its unfortunate, and has earned them the slut reputation. Not all are like that, but a huge chunk are.
I don't think men view them as attractive more than skin deep though.

Sweetpea

as an aside:

this is a little of what I'm talking about, although the women I mentioned reacted to the way I dressed even though it was moderate, this is the more extreme end of the spectrum, but your reaction is similar, you're passing judgement on her style of dress. This is what I'm objecting to.

I don't care for the term slut. It's often misused. What is dressing like a "complete slut" anyway?
Everyone defines it differently. conservative people would say it's showing a little skin, someone else would say it's when showing a body part fully. It's a subjective term.

I've noticed that when woman want to show off a little and feel good about themselves, it's okay. But when Other women do it... Those women are being "slutty" and therefore it's inappropriate.

for the sake of discussion

Why does it bother you when someone dresses one way or another? So, a woman enjoys when she wears high heels and a short skirt or showy dress... why does that bother you? If she's happy with her style of dress, why is that something that causes you irritation?



thanks,

sp

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abaya

Good question, and thanks for asking directly.

I suppose I draw a line between someone dressing up in a self-respecting manner (and I don't mean conservatively, necessarily) and someone dressing to the point where her underwear might be visible, she's barefoot (literally, saw this on Saturday) and staggering down the sidewalk because she's clearly drunk, and draws the looks of some types of boys on the street who see an opportunity in the making. And many of those boys do take advantage of the situation, and that's very sad. I believe that when those women wake up in the morning, the ones who do not even remember how they got into that bed, let alone into that house... they do not feel happy or elated about what has happened to them. Does that always relate to the way a woman is dressed? Certainly not. But there is some kind of correlation there that I can't help but wonder about, as I see these girls wander from frat house to frat house...

I am not talking about women who actively want to pursue this lifestyle, and who feel comfortable in their own skin, doing so... they know what they are doing, and they are really okay with it, psychologically. They have a positive self-image. I am talking about those who are not healthy, who are not taking care of themselves, and who are putting themselves in risky situations in a rather careless manner. This applies to men as well, especially in a college town, but the risks are inherently higher for women. I feel ashamed for them. Perhaps because it hits a little too close to home.

The girls I see every Friday and Saturday night do not look confident, happy, or proud of themselves (though, as you point out, how would I know? I guess I can only look at their body language, posture, faces, and guess... but it's still a guess, I admit). They look downright desperate, trying so hard to fit in, to be liked and touched by boys. And it just seems a most inefficient way to get people to like you... by the way you dress? By how much you drink? I simply don't think that kind of lifestyle and self-image is conducive to developing a healthy image of oneself. But what do I know.

I guess that if I saw, say, a girl who was dressed in an attractive, sexy way but walked confidently, with her head held high, clearly proud of herself and her body, but hardly even noticing people turning to look at her as she strolled by in her beauty... that would not bother me, I think. The dress might be the same, but the attitude is not.

Hope this was clear. I was just processing out loud as I wrote. Let me know if there are inconsistencies, and we can discuss further.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

hrandani

..........................

Sweetpea

abaya, that makes perfect sense and I agree with you on the points you made. thank you for clarifying

I do think you're correct, it's not manner of dress after all (which is why I support women wearing whatever they chose), but rather inner self confidence that is the best indicator of sexiness.

sp

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"I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

cellophanedeity

I tend to compare myself to other women occasionally, but rarely with a judgemental eye. Usually, it's to figure out if I'm dressed appropriately for the situation, and to admire.

I've found that my aspirations for my appearance tend to stem from the physical qualities that I find attractive in other women. So it'd be something like "Oh, she has awesome hair. I should do something new with mine" not "Oh, she has awesome hair. I hate her and she makes me look terrible."

I don't think comparison and minor judgements are necessarily bad things, just bad when they're taken to extremes.

snowy

If I compare myself with any woman, I compare myself with my employer, because she is a person I admire greatly, and she is a overall healthy rolemodel. I use her as my benchmark not because I want look like her, but because I think she has an outlook on life that I agree with and she takes good care of herself--she eats well, exercises, and looks good when she steps out the door. Those are three things I struggle to do, but I know if she can do it, I can too.

Looks-wise, I don't care to compare myself to any other woman. I am myself. I know how to carry myself and look good doing it. I know how to dress my body so I don't look totally ridiculous on a night out. I know I don't have the dedication it takes to get into a smaller size, but I do know I have a great rack and a nice ass and I work that for what it's worth. When in doubt, wear a lower cut shirt, a VS push-up bra, add some sparkly lotion, and most all--drink more wine. You could say that that entire last statement describes my feelings about my looks.

Life is for living, not for worrying about how my boobs look compared to hers. That is like the last thing I worry about when I run down my worry-list.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

mixedmedia

This may seem to be argumentative but...I tend to speak my mind when something really hits me the wrong way. I just want to point out the seeming hypocrisy of us all being in this place where we, as women, are encouraged to feel free to express ourselves as sexual beings, post pictures of ourselves nude and/or engaged in sexual activity on the internet for strangers, reveal our fantasies, proclivities and secrets and yet a woman on the street who is dressed a certain way or behaves a certain way, without even knowing anything about her, is categorized as a slut, or slutty or otherwise exhibiting sluttish characteristics. Isn't it somewhat of a double standard? As long as we're here and sharing we're accepted as who and what we are, but if you're just some chick on the street you're fair game for the same old name-calling that's been going on since high school? Yes, I am sensitive to this issue and the use of that word as you might be aware if you read my contribution to another thread here in the Ladies' Lounge. But it shouldn't take a certain sensitivity to see that is hypocritical. Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but I just had to say that.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Sharon

mixedmedia - that's one reason why I like this place, because I feel more free to actually talk about the things that go on in my head and the things I do in secret that I have to hide in my socially-acceptable conversations with people in the "real world". For all I know, the people here are judging me (by my posts) as harshly as anyone else would in regular life, but because I can't see that, I don't feel like I'm being judged as a slut. I'd hope that wasn't the case though.

mixedmedia

I don't think you're being viewed that way, Sharon. I do believe in the sincerity of the progressive thinking and acceptance exhibited on this site. But it would seem that this same motivation to encourage each other has not fully spilled over into the "real" world. I don't mean to be condemning or accusatory by saying this. Just pointing out what I see as a discrepancy in what is a very positive effort being put forth here at TFP. Acceptance, tolerance, understanding...for who you are, warts and all.

Plus, I just take exception to women calling each other sluts.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

*Nikki*

I do compare myself to other women, I can't help it.

Before I was pregnant I used to constantly get the comment from other women "you are so skinny, blah, blah, blah" it was so annoying. They would even tell me I needed to put some weight on. Out of jealousy I guess. I don't know that I will ever be back to a size 4 but I hope I can be.

I am like abaya in that I really don't put any effort into my appearance due to laziness. It would take a really big event for me to apply makeup or do anything to my hair. I am most comfortable in jeans and tanks and tees and nothing on my face. Makeup to me feels like a mask!

little_tippler

Sweetpea, I think it's outrageous and very rude that your sister in law would talk to you that way. That was very mean and totally uncalled for. I'm not sure if you said anything back to her or if you were just dumbstruc by the audacity of it, but I certainly would have spoken my mind.

I can't believe total strangers would speak to you that way! Who the hell do they think they are? In different kinds of situations I have been in, when a stranger talks to me out of the blue in an impolite fashion, I always ask them do they know me and when did I allow them to speak to me in that manner, and tell them they are being rude. Of course some people talk back but only because they suddenly realise how stupid they were.

Those women were clearly jealous. Be proud of your physical appearance and be yourself. Who cares what those other, rude women think. I would never talk to anyone that way. If anything, I always make a point of complimenting people for details I like in their appearance. Here in Portugal women are often extremely possessive about their men, so there always seems to be an underlying rivalry between women who only just met. I'm not like that. Recently I went out with a few friends and some girls I didn't know well and I complimented one of them on her beautiful smile (it was the truth and I kept finding myself caught in it ). She looked at me funny but then smiled and looked pleased. It's so rare for girls who are not close to be open that way here that she was surprised, clearly.

I take care pf myself and try to look good too. I also go to the gym regularly. I have never had nasty comments like that, at least not recently. When I was in high-school I'd get bitchy girls who would ask if I was anorexic in a "jealous" way(because I was mega skinny) and others who would beam when they realised in the lockers that even skinny girls can get cellulite. Or they'd say, like with Sultana "I can't believe you eat that much and never gain weight."

In relation to judging people on their appearance, I too have the double standard I guess. Everybody does it at one time or another. Why do I sometimes think some girls look "slutty"? I don't call it slutty, I call it badly dressed, badly made-up. For me it's when a woman clearly wore something specifically to let her boobs hang out too much (what is too much? - when the top is grazing the top of the nipple and it looks like they might pop out), or their skirt looks like a belt (knickers almost on show), or you can see their butt crack. This sort of thing just makes me think that they might as well walk out of the house naked because that's the sort of negative attention they will attract. Also girls who wear clothes I think look cheap and nasty (too sparkly, too loud, badly matched pieces or colours), and who wear badly applied make-up (excessive amounts, or too many colours). I don't think it's hard to dress relatively well, and with some self-respect. That's why I judge those women I guess.

I judge them, but I would never go up and be rude about it. People make their own choices, if it doesn't affect me, then it's none of my business.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

mixedmedia

I understand what you're saying little tippler, but not liking someone's clothing choice is not exactly the same thing. I don't like those clothes, either. I don't wear them and I don't think they look good. In fact, I have a virtual personal crusade against Bratz dolls because I think they encourage girls to pursue a superficial, oversexualized persona. BUT, this is the world that we live in. Young women are given mixed messages and a plethora of bad choices to indulge in. But I think it is mean-spirited and wrong and reactionary to call a person's character into question for choosing them. I think it would behoove forward-thinking people to try and check that impulse and offer a little more understanding. That's all....but I'll shut up now.

Nope, I'm not shutting up yet...I just want to add one more thing.

There is an appropriate time to call a woman a slut...when she wants to be called one.

That is all.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

To me, as a human, it is impossible to avoid making judgments. For example, I don't know how much you know about me either, mixedmedia, but since I am pretty sure your posts are directed at me (please correct me if I'm wrong), I feel that my character is being labeled as "mean-spirited, wrong, and reactionary," and that you believe you are more "forward-thinking" than I am. I'm not particularly appreciative of those judgments, but at least you're honest. I can understand the ideals that you have about how women should treat each other, and to some extent I support that. However, as I said in my previous post, I feel like I can empathize all too well with those girls, and that's why I judge them, I suppose.

I've talked about this before on TFP, a long time ago. The first time I had sex was when I was blacked out from alcohol in a strange place, and woke up not knowing where I was, and how I got there. And I was ashamed for getting into that situation, and angry, and sad. And I swore I would never let myself be so careless and non-self-respecting again in my life. And I look at those girls, and I feel the same things towards them... angry, sad, ashamed... because to me it's almost inevitable, you know, that something bad will happen, something that they regret, and that they will never be able to change. And I am not saying it is the woman's fault when those things happen, not at all. But that there is an element of self-responsibility, self-respect, that is lacking in those girls, as was lacking in myself at that time, and it pains me to see it.

Do I ever voice this out loud, when they are walking down the street? Never. What about on TFP, if someone is engaging in unhealthy sexuality, and they appear to be unhappy with their situation? Yes, I speak up, I say something. We all do. Because here on TFP, we come to each other for help. We are asking for each other's support as well as judgment, in asking for advice. Maybe those girls come to each other for help, and they support each other. Good. But yes, I can't help but feel strongly negative emotions when I see them stumbling down the street.

Yes, I used the words "dressed like a complete slut," and perhaps I was not being very P.C. when I used it. But I was writing in the moment, and I used that word, and there it is. I'm not going to go back and edit it, but I'll be more aware of its impact on other women next time. But to judge, as well as to tolerate, is to be human. Sometimes, I am just plain honest about my reaction when I saw something I didn't like, just as you did, Mixedmedia. Personally, I think it's a lot better to get that out in the open than to hide behind P.C. terms, when our inner thoughts are not very P.C. at all.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

little_tippler

I'm sorry to say this but I honestly can't believe any of the ladies who voted they don't compare themselves to other women. How do you do that, stay indoors all day and have zero contact with the outside world? I'd believe it if you said I try not to care about other women and try instead to like myself as much as possible, but to say you never compare, I can't understand that at all. I'd love to hear what the ladies who voted I don't compare have to say - if it's true, you have a valuable secret and I want to be in on it!

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

mixedmedia

Well, abaya, it seems we are both personalizing our feelings on this issue. You with your story and me, coming from the other side, one who has been labelled a slut for my own conscious actions by people who didn't really know me. I can empathize all too well with these girls, too. I made lots of mistakes, too. Boy, did I ever make mistakes. We can compare notes if you like.

But one thing that puzzles me is - do you feel you were acting like a slut when you passed out and were taken advantage of? Would you consider someone calling you that after your experience something other than mean-spirited? If not, how does describing girls as such that remind you of yourself when you were younger express concern for them?

People make mistakes, we all do, mistakes of all kinds. But mistakes or errors in judgment of a sexual nature, particularly for women, still carry the weight of a unique stigma it seems. And I find it a little disquieting to see this sort of condemnation directed specifically towards women in a venue such as this one.

And I don't mean to say that you are not forward thinking. I've read your posts and I think it is obvious you are forward thinking. I'm just pointing out what I see as a discrepancy in attitudes towards women, especially within the context of participation on this site. No offense was intended.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Kaliena

I answered that I don't compare myself and I can really say that I don't and here's why: I am 5'5 and 172 pounds. I'm overweight BUT I know that it's my choice to be that way. If I wanted to lose weight, I could go to the gym (which I became a member of) and eat more healthy than I do. I could, but I don't. Why? Because I'm happy the way that I am. I wear clothes that are comfortable (not always fashionable but that's never been a big thing for me).

I just feel that I have enough to offer with my personality. When it comes to the way I look, I do try to keep myself orderly, but in the grand scheme of things, there are so many ways to change the way you look that why panic? Why get jealous of the skinny girl when, if you want to by natural or unnatural means, you could get to that size?

I guess this all sounds like BS to some but honestly, it's how I feel. I never got into reading the fashion/celebrity magazines, I have had people tell me that I'm a bit heavy and I tell them this "unless you think I'm unhealthy, it's really none of your business to comment." I have friends who love me for the person that I am and a guy who loves me for who I am (and how I look, and he's seen the stretch marks and the weight).

Overall, I don't compare myself to other women because: If I want to be the size they are, if I work on it, I can get there. Why be jealous?

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~Beware the waffle~

abaya

Yes, I was acting like a slut that evening, even before I got drunk. If anyone called me that, I would not have much to rebut them on. It was my responsibility to get myself into that situation, and by own judgment, I abdicated that responsibility, to my own detriment.

Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate your approach a lot more this time.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

mixedmedia

Very well then. But when I describe myself in the context of my own brief stint as a wanton young woman I prefer to use the word "worldly."

Feel free to borrow that one if you like.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

Worldly... that has a nice ring to it, like I backpacked around Europe or something (which I did, also).

I guess for me, the s-word is not really that offensive, and I am not one for euphemisms (if someone died, they died... did not "pass away")... but in this thread I have learned that I should be more careful in my use of it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

mixedmedia

Granted. Sorry to be a pisser, abaya. Sometimes I get a little high-horsey when my pet peeves get tweaked. I am aware of this tendency in myself...I blame my mother.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

Oh, believe me, your horse is NOT higher than mine. I can be a royal asshole when I think I'm right (which is often); just ask my ever-patient husband. For me, it came from being an evangelical Christian for way too many years... Still in recovery, I suppose.

But, back on topic, just to reiterate... I have no problem with women's (or men's) dressing styles, as long as they are confident (not insecure) and have a healthy self-image for themselves about it. And sweetpea, I also cannot believe what that random stranger said to you at the coffee shop... sounds like she had serious issues and was taking them out on you. I don't know what I would have said in that situation... sounds like you handled it gracefully.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Kelzie

Ha ha. My sister and I decided a couple years ago to take back the word "slut". We now only use it to describe women who are comfortable with their sexualities, which of course means we call each other sluts all the time.

mixedmedia

Yes, sister! There definitely is an appeal to "taking back" that word. 'Cause while I obviously object to it being used to describe a person in a derogatory way, I have no objection whatsoever to being called a slut in a congratulatory or sisterly way. Nor within the context of a certain relationship of a certain nature in certain hotel rooms in certain scattered towns around central and southwestern Florida.

Guess you could say I have a love/hate relationship with the word SLUT.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Lizra

I voted I don't compare...that's cause I'm old now...and it doesn't matter anymore.
No matter what I do...I'm not going to look young and beautiful....so I content myself with looking old and interesting...it's an excellent trade-off!

When I see a young woman dressed like little miss skanky pants, I might get annoyed at first, but then I remember that I used to enjoy doing it myself....though I can't really remember exactly why. Attention? Power? Or just the thrill of being grown up and showing off the new body stuff ....Sure I was young and dumb...but I recall it was also lots of fun!

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Happy atheist

cadre

To put it simply: There is a difference between comparing yourself to others and admiring others. That is why I voted that I don't compare myself to other women.

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My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

ngdawg

I am always comparing myself to others, quite unfairly too because I compare myself to women much younger.
Sitting in the breakroom at work last week or so....minding my own business, eating dinner and the beauty department manager, sitting across from me declares,"You have NO gray hair!!" Well, no I don't....She went on to say, after seeing my puzzled look, "I just noticed your roots and there's not a single gray hair. I HATE you! That cute little figure, no gray.." I'm 3 years older than she is.
Another woman I work with I'd always thought was extremely attractive 'for her age', thinking she was 55 or so...I found out, much to my embarrassment after mentioning checking out AARP, that she's not even 50 yet. So much for comparing myself to that one...
Because I work in a place that's probably 80% women, I see and do a lot of comparing. I lament the aging process, they're telling me they wish they had my hair or figure (to which I respond, I suck the gut in when I walk or I'd look like hell). I think comparing is natural to a point-it sets the compass for our own self-image, good or bad.
I do have a problem judging how others dress. I'd never leave the house sans make-up nor in sweats. Sweats are not made for shopping, going to dinner, etc. I also abhor those who think just because something comes in their large size, they should wear it, regardless of how much flesh hangs out (muffin tops) or how mishapen they appear in their get-up. I look at them and think they should really invest in a mirror...
How we present ourselves out in public tells people something about us, whether we like that or not. That has always been my catalyst for what I do before leaving the house. That and the fact that several years ago, I went to the store, no make-up,and in beat-up clothes because I had been gardening...and ran into someone from work.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Gilda

When I was in my teens and early 20s, I was the school slut. By that, I mean I was the girl who had a reputation for being easy and this pissed off the other girls, though I'm not quite sure why, as I was really only hurting myself by sleeping with any guy who would have me.

The thing is, even though it was true, that I did sleep around, that the label was more or less accurate, it didn't take any of the sting away from it. I put up a facade of apathy, but it hurt more to hear the things the other girls would say because I knew they were true.

This is part of the reason I now take such care to have an understated stylish appearance whenever I go out. I want to look nice, to be classy, the opposite of how I looked and behaved when I was younger so that I don't invite the same judgments I got then. I have somewhat short skirts, but nothing like the micros that you see on a lot of young women and teen girls today, and I make sure my top reaches all the way to my skirt. I wear full makeup every time I leave the house, but, except for parties, it's understated, meant to conceal flaws and enhance the better parts of my appearance rather than call attention to the makeup itself.

It's also why I was somewhat strict with Sissy when she was a teen, making sure she didn't go to school or out on a date dressed in a way that would invite such judgments from others. She's a lot smarter and a lot more centered than I was, and always has been, so it was less of an issue with her. I do still worry sometimes, but she's an adult now and doesn't really dress any differently from the other 21 year olds on campus, maybe even a little less provocatively in general. I'd like to think that's at least partly due to Grace's and my influence.

I'm not really happy with the culture of sexualization that is going on today with today's young women, but I'm not really in much position to do anything about it other than to serve as an example, for what little that's worth coming from a woman in her thirties, and to try to teach my sister how valuable she is as a person first, and that very little of that value comes from what others think of her as a sexual being.

Most of all, I'm glad she's not like me.

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

ShaniFaye

ngdawg, I HAVE to disagree....when its cold and rainy and icky outside and you have to go grocery shopping....sweats and a flannel shirt are def my preferred outfit

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ngdawg

They're a preferred outfit for many, but my own mind says they're like pj's, probably because that's how I myself wear them-around the house and usually only when I'm feeling sickly.
I do have 'sweatshirts' that are un-sweatshirty-they're turtlenecks and hang more like sweaters, but my distaste for them is more for those cuffed pants, specially seeing someone in those and they're so worn they wouldn't hold up waxing a car.
**
When I was in high school, I was called many things, one thing being a 'slut'. This was extremely ironic since I never even had a date or a kiss, let alone any sex at all. I was, as my friend recalls now, 'painfully shy' to the point of hiding under my massive long hair if anyone spoke to me. I did, however, dress, as he put it, 'oddly'. Short leather miniskirts or very low-riding tight jeans. I mixed things up, sometimes wearing camo jeans with a tight little blouse, but then cover it all with a sweater or vest. I wore Annie Hall things before anyone had heard of Annie Hall, borrowing my father's ties and sweater vests. Hot pants were in fashion and I owned several, along with those clunky heeled shoes. I'd solidified my 'rep' as an oddity, and some decided to include 'slut' with that, I guess *shrug*.
Now I see the same thing happening with my daughter. She loves black and things with skulls. She'll take a plain pair of jeans, tear them, draw on them and cover them in safety pins(I swear she has some jeans that are more holes than jean). We've colored her hair blue, purple and red. She's labeled Emo, Goth, etc., but she's probably the most bubbly kid you'd ever meet and a really good student.
We label by sight because, until we get personally involved, it's all we can go by. I ride with bikers. Leather chaps, boots, vests filled with patches and badges...and they're cops, lawyers, executives, etc. But they're labeled on sight. Judgment is comparing. She's this, he's that, etc. We do it when they are perceived as 'not like me'. We (as a society) either turn up our noses or feel pangs of envy, depending on these comparisons and judgments.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.