genuinegirly

Do you have a competitive drive?
Do you enjoy competing?
Professionally, Academically, or Athletically?

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you?
If you don't, what holds you back?
Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance?


Here's where I'm coming from:

I'm taking an Organic Chemistry course this summer, which is graded on a curve. This is the first time that I have been in a class where the folks have taken the curve seriously. ie - there is a lot of hostile competition in the air.

I'm not a fan of competition when it comes to academics. I used to love it. I grew out of it when I hit high school. Probably because I don't see much point in killing myself over a class. This whole anti-competition streak kept me away from classes like this. Now i'm at the point where I can't graduate without it.

I can't stand walking into a tense classroom. I don't enjoy "making friends" that give you advice that is innacurate because they want you to score poorly.

Not a fan of competition myself. Maybe it's because I've lost enough to sympathize with those who don't make the cut. I've been in plenty of environments where everyone who does well, wins. I just don't understand why competition must be a part of the United States' universities. Is the goal to educate? Is learning to compete one of the skills they're trying to instill?

I don't think that my gender has anything to do with my dislike of competition, but some (mother, former friends) say it does. I'm curious what you folks have to say about gender and competition.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

la petite moi

Do you have a competitive drive? Yes, in certain things.
Do you enjoy competing? Not usually.
Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? Bodily- I have a thing about body image.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? Don't really enjoy it.
If you don't, what holds you back? I would rather get along then fight for "who's best?"
Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? Uhm, status as a woman? What does this mean?

little_tippler

Do you have a competitive drive? Yes but it's almost non-existant
Do you enjoy competing? Generally no, I find it frustrating and often pointless
Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? If ever, it would have to be professionally and academically

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? I don't enjoy it much, because I usually look at the big picture and when I do I see how meaningless it is, but when I am driven, it's usually because I don't want someone obnoxious getting the better of me, or because I want to show off - not great emotions to have
If you don't, what holds you back? I don't think it's important to win to affirm myself, I think it«s more important to know how to relate to others
Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? I think so. Being totally non PC, I think there are certain things that a majority of women have in common, as do men. Feel free to strike me down, but I think women generally consider relationships with others and getting on well with them to be more important than winning or being better at a given activity. With men there is a tendency among men to want to affirm their status as better than x or y, and competing in several ways is a form of doing that. I'm generalising but I think it applies in many situations.

Just one thing - I think this thread would be far more interesting if the men could give their opinion also.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

abaya

I'll start out by saying that I HATED organic chemistry. So you're in good company.

Do you have a competitive drive? YES, I am very aggressive with regards to competition. I like kicking ass whenever possible.

Do you enjoy competing? YES. Especially when I win.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? Profesionally, not so much, since I hate the world of publish or perish. I don't see that as a worthy competition to engage in. Academically, yes, if I have any chance of "winning" (getting an A). This is what statistics drove me batty... I SUCKED at it, and had to admit this on a daily basis. I had to remind myself that competition would get me nowhere in that class. Still, I checked the class scores on every assignment to see where I was "placing."

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? Adrenaline, testosterone, whatever you want to call it. I love the rush, and the risk, of putting myself out there. I feel empowered and strong when I compete, even when I lose. I don't feel afraid of anything at those times, and it feels like I can kick anyone's ass. I suppose I love having that kind of confidence, at those times.

If you don't, what holds you back? The only time I feel "held back" in competition is if I obviously lack the skills to compete at any kind of an equal level. This happens in areas where I just can't "pick up" the skill on the fly, which really frustrates me. I am notoriously impatient, especially with myself.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? I doubt it. My dad raised me pretty androgynously, so that I could function as well in men's roles as women's roles, if not moreso (I played with his carpentry tools far more than I ever touched the one Barbie someone gave me). I think THAT had a lot to do with my stance, but not the fact that I am a woman. Being a woman is cool when you're competitive, though, because not a lot of other women are that competitive... so you're playing with the boys most of the time. Which I like. (They are WAY more competitive and fun, and they like to kick ass too, which is a good challenge for me.) It's pretty hard for me to back down and NOT be competitive, even to my own detriment at times.

In general, I have the kind of attitude that there is nothing I cannot do. Other than statistics . But with that attitude, I become pretty much competitive in anything I do, because I'm convinced that I can do it, I can learn it, just gimme time and I'll catch up and kick ass... which is what makes me a very aggressive person. As I said, sometimes I simply have to force myself to back down to avoid putting myself in danger, since I am rather drawn to risk.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

noodle

Do you have a competitive drive? Yes, unfortunately. Often, I try to staunch it because of the conflict it has been known to create.

Do you enjoy competing? Sometimes and only with certain people that aren't going to get hostile or take things overly seriously.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? Professionally at times, academically always, athletically never... I'm terminally uncoordinated.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? The drive I've got towards competition stems from my sister always being academically superior to me throughout the years. She's 4 years younger and always had straight As. Until one semester in college where she got two Bs and I ended up with straight As in grad school. I'm still not sure if it's a competition thing or us motivating each other. My ex-SO was very competitive in all things and some of that rubbed off on me because we both strived to be the best person we could be. But it did turn into competition. At work I constantly have to prove myself capable at my job because of my age (I'm younger than most, and they're all women) so it sometimes turns into a competition. Other people motivate me to compete... but the minute it gets nasty or hostile, I'm usually out unless there's something that I've been working very hard on that I'll lose out on by walking away.

If you don't, what holds you back? Athletically, I'm seriously dangerous. That always holds me back. I'm so uncoordinated that it doesn't even make sense for me to try to go up against someone else. I challenge myself to beat my last workout, not someone else's or I wouldn't be able to move for weeks! I can't handle it when people are emotionally or physically hurting each other for the sake of competition. It makes me incredibly angry and I lose all motivation, the majority of the time. It's just rarely worth it to hurt someone to prove you're somehow better at something.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? Some of it. I constantly had male figures putting me down in high school on the academic front. So it motivated me to prove that I was just as good as The Boys. But I never feel the need to compete only because I'm a woman any more. I'm either going to succeed or fail, and I refuse to let that be on the grounds that I'm female. It drove my ex crazy because I wouldn't let him use that excuse on me. I took the test and passed it... he's yet to take the exam because he's afraid he might fail and prove he's not as "smart" as I am. I could care less.

__________________

JustJess

Do you have a competitive drive? Sort of. I really only compete with myself. I don't care how everyone else is doing, other than as a way to measure whether the things we're doing are easy or not for the general populace. The hell with what everyone else is doing, I want an A. And if I'm not getting an A, that's when I'm checking the stats to see if it's me, or if the material/grading is just that hard. I'm not doing this stuff for anyone else, it's just what I expect of myself.

Do you enjoy competing? Sometimes! But other people take it so personally that I get bored with their posturing. Either be the best you can be, or stop wasting my time.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? Oh, definitely academically. I never cared in HS or even in college at first, but then Quadro pissed me off one day... But again, I'm not competing so much as getting info to affirm that I'm doing well in terms of what I expect of myself. It's reassurance more than anything. I know I'm pretty intelligent, and so I expect that my scores/understanding/etc is in the upper percentage of the class. But all that idea of misinformation to get ahead? Disgusting. People ask me for help all the time in classes, and I freely explain and help. I like being the one who knows stuff.

Professionally, I don't have to compete. I just do a damned good job because I like to. I can't imagine NOT doing a good job. As my boss notices that, I get praised at work pretty often - no need to jockey around for that.

Athletically... I used to be a bit more competitive, but that too has become me competing against me. *I* know what is strong for me, and what is being in shape for me, and that's what I strive for. I do have some envy for those women who are tougher/in better shape, though.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? As I stated above, I just like being the one who knows/understands/etc. Otherwise, I just feel good being good at things.

If you don't, what holds you back? I don't like to appear outwardly competitive because I feel it's petty - at least, the people I have seen being competitive seem petty to me. Who cares if Alice can lift more weight? But if Alice is getting better grades, what does she know that I don't? How can I learn as well as she is? There's not envy, there's a need to know as much, that's all.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? Nope. I'm pretty unusual for a woman that way, I think. You know how women are stereotyped as catty and manipulative? Nah, not me. In fact, that's always kept me from having many women friends. I think I'm just too comfortable in my skin, always have been. I don't need to be better than others, really. I just need to be MY best.

Gods, I sound like an after school special. *sigh*

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

genuinegirly

Thank you for your thoughtful responses!

I may post this poll in General Discussion in a few days. I started this thread to gain perspective from other women: Ladies' Lounge seemed the appropriate location.

"Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance?"
=
"Do you think that competitive drive and womanhood are linked?"
or
"You're a woman. Does this impact your competitiveness?"
or
"Does being a woman have some influence on how competitive you are?"

Maybe one of those is more clear? I have a difficult time phrasing things sometimes.

Thanks, all!

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Gilda

Do you have a competitive drive?

Yes. Not a very strong one, but a little bit of one.

Do you enjoy competing?

It depends on the game. Scrabble, Chess, Risk, Cards, sure. I enjoy the process of the competition more than anything, though, the mental stimulation that I get. I don't really care a whole lot whether I win, other than at a tournament, and I haven't competed in a tournament in years.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically?

No, no, and you've got to be kidding.

Professionally I'm fine where I am. I'll publish the papers needed for advancement, but I'd do that anyway because I enjoy the intellectual stimulation of the work itself.

Academically, not much. I worked hard to be an honors student at every level of education I've achieved, but that isn't competetive in that I was competing against anybody else, it was more a case of my trying to be the best I could be at what I did and not disappoint my parents.

I don't know of any situation where grading on a curve is the best way to do things. In my classes, it's very difficult to get the high grades, but there's no competition for them.

Athletically, hmmm. I've never really understood the appeal of athletic competition, but that's ok, as I doubt many people understand the appeal of collecting comic books. Different tastes for different people, I suppose. I have about as much athletic ability as I do artistic, which is none and none.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you?

For the games I play, it isn't a drive, it's the pleasure I get from the intellectual stimulation offered by the problem to be solved, and the social interaction I get with the people I love. I don't care very much whether I win or lose, and for the life of me cannont understand why anybody does enough to get upset over something so trivial. I have, on occasion, however, seen one of Sissy's boyfreinds get really involved in the winning aspect rather than enjoying the process.

I don't enjoy games with people outside my family nearly as much for this reason.

If you don't, what holds you back?

I've seen people get overly aggressive over trivial stuff like a basketball game or a board game, and it sucks all the fun out of it for me. Why not just enjoy the process of playing, and not place so much importance on winning? This is, I think, what drives so much of the insanity surrounding junior sports. The wrong goal--winning--is placed ahead of cooperation, teamwork, excercise, learning and practicing skills, and having fun.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance?

Possibly. Competetiveness is sometimes a product of aggressiveness, and aggressiveness is at least partly linked to hormone levels. More androgen, more aggressiveness, less androgen, less aggressiveness. The average woman has about the same amount of androgens (male hormones) and estrogens (female hormones) in her system, while the average male, from puberty on anyway, can have 100x as much testosterone as estrogen. This may, in many cases, contribute to a predisposition towards certain behaviors, though it does not in any case cause them. There are too many other factors to consider there.

I also grew up in a household where girls were treated one way, and boys another, and sex roles were highly reinforced. This was ok for me and Boris for the most part, as I very much liked being a girly girl and for Boris, as he's quite comfortable with the more typical masculine roles, but it doesn't work well for those who don't fit into traditional roles neatly. It was hell on Sissy.

Grace and I intend to raise our children in a gender neutral way. That isn't to say we're going to try to wipe out gender specific behaviors, but we aren't going to teach our children of either sex that there are things only boys should do or that only girls should do. We won't have girls toys for a girl and boys toys for a boy, we'll just have toys and let the child decide for herself what she likes, and not interfere with those choices. We won't force athletics on a child of either sex. Any skill that a child needs to learn will be taught to all children regardless of sex, such as basic car care, basic home health care, and basic cooking and household maintenance skills. We have no objection to those activities being split up between a couple, even along traditional gender lines if that's how a couple chooses to do it, but neither do we think it's wise to leave a girl deficient in how to maintain her car or a boy deficient in how to plan and prepare a decent meal. Those are life skills, not boys' or girls' skills.

We've been talking about this a lot lately.

Gilda

snowy

Do you have a competitive drive? Yes.
Do you enjoy competing? Yes.
Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? Professionally and academically. I'm not an athlete.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? I want to beat everyone.
If you don't, what holds you back? Athletically--not an athlete.
Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? Nope.

I compete mostly when it comes to trivia and knowledge. Jeopardy!, Trivial Pursuit, and other games of that genre are my favorite.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

mixedmedia

Do you have a competitive drive? No.

Do you enjoy competing? No, not at all. Well, I do like playing games, cards, board games, darts, etc, but I don't consider myself competing when I'm playing them.....just using mental skills along with others. I don't get gleeful over winning or pouty over losing.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? na

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? na

If you don't, what holds you back? I don't feel like anything holds me back. Some things I excel in, some things not so much. Likewise for others. I have no interest in competing with someone else's abilities. I'm comfortable with my own capabilities or lack therof.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? Not at all.

I think men are more openly competitive than women are. But that many women are just as competitive in a quieter, less ostentatious, way. Perhaps socially men's competitiveness is viewed as more acceptable.

Grancey

Do you have a competitive drive? No, none, never have, not even a little

Do you enjoy competing? I enjoy board games, card games and computer games where it is me and the computer. I hate playing games with extremely competitive people. I don't understand that motivation.

Professionally, Academically, or Athletically? That's funny. That is precisely why I am not working right now.

If you do enjoy competition, what drives you? I enjoy the competition with myself to make myself a better person.

If you don't, what holds you back? Past experiences with competitive people. They have made my life hell.

Do you think that your status as a woman has much to do with your stance? No, not at all. I think it's because I appreciate that life is too short to obsess on what in the end, really doesn't matter.

__________________
Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

Demeter

I'm not often competative, but when I am in the position that I can do better than someone else at work, or in a sporting event, or such, I sure as heck must overcome everyone else.

I think woman are as ruthless as men, we're just quieter about it. We don't holler & wave our arms, we plan and plan and plan, and then we make our move.

__________________

I am not bound to please thee with my answers.
William Shakespeare

abaya

Agreed. I know it's a generalization, but I do think women can be even MORE ruthless than men, especially with silent competition. That's what does so many girls in, as teenagers... especially in middle school. (See the book "Odd Girl Out" for a sociological study of adolescent girls who bully other girls.) Some girls get destroyed by uber-competitive women, which is quite sad to witness.

On a separate note, I should amend my previous post by saying that even though I am very aggressive, I don't often *win* things when I'm being competitive! Usually my aggressiveness gets in the way of my success when competing... I just get over-excited and carried away with the whole thing. My adrenaline goes through the roof. In the end, my losses become a laughing matter and I move on. But I am known to pout sorely after losing a game of Scrabble... hehe.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

water_bug

I only seem to compete with myself. If I set a goal, or if I know how good I can do soemthing, and I don't meet those expectations, I get pretty hard on myself. Very rarely will I compee against other people.