Clemancy for Clarence Ray Allen? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

billege · 01-08-2006, 12:46 PM

Who, you ask, is Clarence Ray Allen? Clarence Ray Allen is a 76 year old, blind, deaf, wheelchair bound, white man, on death row in California.

Clarence Ray Allen will be put to death on January 17th. He's due to die without protest; without the anti-death row crowd organizing protest busses; and, without a movie starring...anyone.

The article I've posted below raises some interesting questions. Where's the protest for the old white guy?

Typically, the American public is a big ole sucker for old people in wheelchiars. This guy is not only old, he's blind and deaf while in the wheelchair. I seriously dobut a blind, deaf, wheelchair bound, geriatric is capable of causing any member of the American public a whole lot of harm. The logic that Tookie was a changed man and wouldn't hurt more people seems to apply equally well to Allen. In fact, you'd think it'd be easier to plea for Allen's clemancy based on the fact it's highly unlikely he CAN hurt anyone.

But, California's going to kill him anyway, and the public seems to be fine with that.

I've learned, through my own reading and a college education in crimal justice, that the death penalty has limited (not to mention hard to measure) effectiveness as a crime preventor. It's much more about "eye for an eye" justice than actual crime prevention.

Of course, you're free to believe what you want, but I oppose the dealth penalty in practice and principle.

I believe Clarence Ray Allen's situation, makes one thing clear:
If Tookie's protests were about the death penalty, the same crowd should be back protesting Allen's death; but, they're not.

Where's the protest over a old white guy?

Quote:

For a white man's execution, where are black protesters?
Outcry on behalf of Tookie might be viewed as race-based.

Jasmyne A. Cannick

Sunday, January 8, 2006

Los Angeles -- In the wee hours of the morning of Jan. 17, another man will be put to death by lethal injection in the state of California. This comes exactly 36 days after the execution of Stanley Tookie Williams. But where are the protesters?

With just a few days to go before the scheduled execution of a 76-year-old blind and deaf man who uses a wheelchair, there has been no public outcry of support for clemency for Clarence Ray Allen, who is white. There have been no planned protests and celebrity read-ins in support of saving an old man's life. Community activists and civil rights leaders aren't organizing statewide tours to bring attention to Allen's execution. There hasn't even been one "Kill Clarence Ray Allen Hour" from KFI-AM's "John and Ken Show."

Which raises the question: Was the community cry for clemency for Williams because he was a black man, or was it because the death penalty is immoral, inhumane and cruel?

Granted, Allen hasn't written any children's books, been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, or had a Hollywood actor play him in a film, but that doesn't mean his life isn't worth saving.

The fight for clemency should not have died with Williams. With two more executions scheduled in California, including that of Michael Morales, who was convicted at the age of 21 for the rape and murder of a 17-year-old female, now is not the time for all of Williams' supporters to retreat to their separate corners of the world. In fact, it's time for the opposite. We need to get back into action and show the world that the fight for clemency for Williams was not solely based on the fact that he was a black man but rather that he was a man who did not deserve to have his life prematurely taken from him, no matter how heinous the crimes he was convicted of committing.

The state Legislature is considering a moratorium on the death penalty. Although a decision didn't come soon enough to save Williams' life, our work could aid in saving the lives of many other condemned prisoners.

Black Californians who supported clemency for Williams need to re-examine their reasons for wanting Williams to live. Was it because he was a black man? Was it because he co-founded the Crips? Was it because of his anti-gang and anti-drug work? Or was it because we abhor the death penalty?

Allen poses no significant risk. Blind and deaf, it's very unlikely that he will be ordering the killing of anyone if left to live his remaining days on Death Row.

Many of the black leaders who supported clemency for Williams vehemently denied they were racists when challenged by a pair of conservative radio DJs in Los Angeles who sponsored the repulsive "Kill Tookie Hour." Accusing the black leadership of getting involved in the fight to save Williams only because he was black, the shock jocks noted that these same activists were going to be nowhere to be found when the next execution of a nonblack person came up.

If all of the protests around clemency for Williams were not just for show, it should be no problem for the black community to reassemble for the fight to save Clarence Ray Allen. He may not have been our homeboy from back in the day, or demonstrated to the world that he is a redeemed man. He may not even be likable, but his life is worth trying to save. What kind of message does it send if we sit back and do nothing while another person is systematically put to death on our watch?

Suave · 01-08-2006, 01:09 PM

People are just digging to make this a racial issue because everyone wants something to bitch and moan about. Not to be preumptuous, but does he even want to stay alive in his current state?

No, I don't support the death penalty, but I also realise that going out and protesting EVERY SINGLE ONE will dull the effects of the protests. Pick your battles, and sticking to more "viable" causes like Tookie Williams improves the chance of actually getting clemency for someone.

Strange Famous · 01-08-2006, 01:25 PM

is it just me, or does the article make no mention of the guys crime?

flat5 · 01-08-2006, 01:45 PM

Why is he on death row? How has he behaved in prison?
and the hell with his color.

filtherton · 01-08-2006, 05:25 PM

Tookie's thing was that he was a strong credible anti-gang voice. Many people thought that he had value in decreasing gang membership. What this guy has to do with anything like that is beyond me. Seems to me like a rather dimly thought out attempt to paint tookie's supporters as racists.

Ustwo · 01-08-2006, 05:45 PM

The only problem I see is that it has taken so long, that the guy is now blind and deaf, I want him to see and hear it.

Quote:

In 1974, Clarence Ray Allen ordered a 17-year-old young woman, Mary Sue Kitts, murdered because she knew of Allen's involvement in a Fresno, Calif., store burglary.

After his 1977 trial and conviction, Allen was sentenced to life without parole.

According to San Francisco Chronicle columnist Debra Saunders, "In Folsom State Prison, Allen cooked up a scheme to kill the witnesses who testified against him so that he could appeal his conviction and then be freed because any witnesses were dead – or scared into silence." As a result, three more innocent people were murdered – Bryon Schletewitz, 27, Josephine Rocha, 17, and Douglas White, 18.

This time, a jury sentenced Allen to death, the only death sentence ever handed down by a Glenn County (California) jury. That was in 1982.

For 23 years, opponents of the death penalty have played with the legal system – not to mention played with the lives of the murdered individuals' loved ones – to keep Allen alive.

Had Clarence Allen been executed for the 1974 murder of Mary Sue Kitts, three innocent people under the age of 30 would not have been killed. But because moral clarity among anti-death penalty activists is as rare as their self-righteousness is ubiquitous, finding an abolitionist who will acknowledge moral responsibility for innocents murdered by convicted murderers is an exercise in futility.

People like this are why I wish there was a hell.

Aladdin Sane · 01-08-2006, 06:34 PM

I can think of few who deserved to be killed more that Tookie Founder of the Crips Williams. He was directly or indirectly responsible for the murder of many untold dead. He was black? Big fucking woop tee do. Clarence Allen is another sparkling specimen of humanity. He's white? I refuse to notice. There's one sure way to stay off of Death Row in the United States: don't murder innocent 17-year girls with pre-meditation.

ShaniFaye · 01-16-2006, 11:32 AM

I thought I'd post a full article about him (and the fact that his heart stopped in September and they revived him and returned him to death row)

Quote:

Midnight execution looms
California's oldest death row inmate tied to 4 murders

Monday, January 16, 2006; Posted: 1:27 p.m. EST (18:27 GMT)

FRESNO, California (AP) -- Dusk had just fallen on the night of September 5, 1980, when Jack Abbott heard gunshots at the general store next door. He grabbed his shotgun and vaulted the wall separating their properties.

"I could see them in there, someone with a gun in their hand. I could see somebody lying on the floor," Abbott recalled during a recent interview.

Inside, he found the bodies of two clerks, Douglas Scott White, 18, and Josephine Rocha, 17. The owners' son, Bryon Schletewitz, 27, was dead in the stockroom. Abbott was shot in the back, but he still managed to shoot the fleeing intruder in the foot.

The killings at Fran's Market that night put two men on death row: a 32-year-old newly paroled convict named Billy Ray Hamilton, and Clarence Ray Allen, the man who ordered the attack from prison.

Barring a last-minute reprieve, Allen will become the oldest inmate put to death in California if he is executed as scheduled at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday, just after his 76th birthday.
Appeals to Supreme Court

Allen's attorneys have asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene, arguing that executing a feeble old man amounts to cruel and unusual punishment.

Allen has gone blind and deaf and uses a wheelchair. His heart stopped in September, but doctors revived him and returned him to death row. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed his case on Sunday.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied clemency on Friday.

Allen already was serving life in prison for murder when he gave Hamilton a hit list of seven people who had testified against him. He wanted them dead so they couldn't testify during his appeals.

It was the culmination of a violent history between Allen and the market, known in the community for its friendly service to farmers and their migrant workers in the San Joaquin Valley.
Former preacher

Allen grew up poor in Oklahoma in the Dust Bowl era and turned to preaching as a young man.

"From my earliest childhood memories, Clarence Ray Allen imparted the most loving, giving and generous grandfatherly spirit," Paula Allen of Fresno wrote in a statement, remembering her grandfather in happier times.

"He was always selfless with his time and devoted his undivided attention to me and my siblings through special occasions, his many gifts and our family outings. His gifts of humor and spontaneous frivolity could turn my dreariest days into the brightest at the drop of a hat," she wrote.

But in the San Joaquin Valley, Allen founded a private security firm and one photograph from those days shows him brandishing a machine gun, which he used to threaten workers during grape strikes organized by Cesar Chavez.

He owned an airplane, luxury cars and horse stables -- a lifestyle authorities have said was supported largely through criminal activity by his family and employees.
Market burglary in 1974

Prosecutor say he arranged a burglary of Fran's Market in 1974.

When his son's girlfriend, 17-year-old Mary Sue Kitts, told Bryon Schletewitz what had happened, Allen had her strangled, her weighted body dumped in a canal. Bryon Schletewitz and his father, Raymond, were among the witnesses at Allen's trial.

Bryon Schletewitz had planned to take over the family store. After the murders there, his parents sold it, said his sister, Patricia Pendergrass.

She intends to witness the execution to represent her late parents, who had hoped to live long enough to see Allen die. "They never saw justice served," she said.

Josephine Rocha's family is not swayed by Allen's appeals that he is too old and frail to be executed.

"He's too old to die? Josephine was too young to die," said her brother, Robert Rocha.

Allen and his family declined requests for interviews.

ShaniFaye · 01-16-2006, 11:33 AM

Im having a difficult time with the fact that he died (since his heart stopped) and they resurrected him so they could execute him...isnt that (pardon the pun) overkill?

frogza · 01-16-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

Im having a difficult time with the fact that he died (since his heart stopped) and they resurrected him so they could execute him...isnt that (pardon the pun) overkill?

Probably was. Iif the state hadn't tried to revive him though, his family or his lawyer would have sued the state.

Ustwo · 01-16-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

Im having a difficult time with the fact that he died (since his heart stopped) and they resurrected him so they could execute him...isnt that (pardon the pun) overkill?

Its a classic for bad tv drama to be sure, but you could argue with a little logic taffy pulling that they shouldn't feed him since they are just going to kill him anyways.

I'm sure you can see the legal issues of letting him die, even if they cross the line of common sense.

ShaniFaye · 01-16-2006, 11:51 AM

well no, in my opinion thats two different things....hastening his death by starving him and resurrecting him when he was already dead arent exactly the same thing

Ustwo · 01-16-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

well no, in my opinion thats two different things....hastening his death by starving him and resurrecting him when he was already dead arent exactly the same thing

Only he wasn't dead or they couldn't have revived him.

Medicine can do wonderful things, but we can't bring back the dead yet. Its all a matter of degree.

Plus there is the chance the sick bastard might get clemency. Its not up to the doctors or the staff at a prison to determine if he lives or dies until they are given that task for his well deserved execution.

Yes this violates common sense, but it IS the legal system.

Lucifer · 01-16-2006, 12:11 PM

I have no problem with the fact of his being put to death, or with him being revived and then put to death. He murdered someone in a state with a death penalty, what did he think was going to happen to him? And the fact that he went ahead and organized 3 more murders from behind bars simply shows a cold callous man with no regard for other's lives. Faced with such a man, I have no problem with his being put to death.

ShaniFaye · 01-16-2006, 12:12 PM

ok, my mistake, I thought when a person's heart has been asystolic, that they were clinically dead, but when restarted by defibrillation they were "brought back to life" hence my using the term resurrection

ngdawg · 01-16-2006, 12:17 PM

Personally, I think putting him to death at this point is a mercy killing-he should be taken off death row and left to die crippled, blind, deaf and whatever else his miserable existance tosses his way.

Tachion · 01-16-2006, 12:35 PM

You can't be half pregrant anymore you can be half a killer.

If you can justify killing then you are the same as any killer, you just differ on the justification for it.

I think it is time society showed it is different that they people it punishes.

Killing an old deaf man who has spent so many years facing death is about us, not about him. I disagree with killing - no matter who is doing it as it says that life is something we can judge.

grumpyolddude · 01-16-2006, 01:25 PM

"Allen's attorneys have asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene, arguing that executing a feeble old man amounts to cruel and unusual punishment."

The state has had to feed, shelter, and maintain the health of this bastard for 30 years! The cruelty has been to the surviving families of his victims.
If any reform of the system is needed, it's to expedite sentences in these cases. Give inmates access to all of the resources they need to appeal... for a limited time. If they can't prove their case........

Ustwo · 01-16-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

ok, my mistake, I thought when a person's heart has been asystolic, that they were clinically dead, but when restarted by defibrillation they were "brought back to life" hence my using the term resurrection

Its really just terminolgy not keeping up with the times or reality for that matter.

albania · 01-16-2006, 01:45 PM

I think he should have been killed a long time ago, the fact that he's suffering from old age has nothing to do with the crimes he committed a long time ago. He's old oh does that mean he's nice, does that mean that we should forgive him...hell no. I see something such as the death penalty serving three purposes, one it is for retribution/punishment, second deterrent, and third the elimination of people who because of the heinous nature of their crime have little chance at rehabilitation. So would the death penalty serve its purpose here in my mind it would.

ShaniFaye · 01-16-2006, 01:50 PM

I wonder when his original execution date was....I dont think I've read it anywhere

found this though...so in answer to the OP there were protests arranged

Quote:

California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has announced his decision- he will not grant clemency to San Quentin death row prisoner Clarence Ray Allen. Allen's lawyers have petitioned the US Supreme Court to stop the execution based on the argument it would be cruel and unusual punishment because of the inmate's physical condition. Allen, whose 76th birthday is Monday, is blind, partially deaf, and has used a wheelchair routinely since he was revived after a heart attack several months ago, according to prison officials.

A day of action to protest the execution of Clarence Ray Allen will be held on Monday, January 16th. The day will start with a Walk for Abolition from San Francisco to San Quentin Prison. There will also be protests in Sacramento, Fresno, Palo Alto, Berkeley, San Rafael, El Cerrito, and many other cities in California. Read more. A vigil is scheduled to take place at San Quentin State Prison in Marin County on Monday night. Bright Path video is planning to stream live from the vigil, beginning at 9:00pm.

http://www.indybay.org/police/

Rodney · 01-16-2006, 02:06 PM

Tookie there had some powerful friends, and had been saying the right things for 10-20 years or more. Whether he meant them or not is another matter; but he got some people to speak for him. Clarence Allan Ray is a mean and violent, someone who has done violence and arranged for others to do it on his behalf even after he went to prison for murder. He never said he was sorry in any way that resonated with anyone emotionally. The only ones out there for his execution will be those who oppose all death penalties on principle.

And there are a lot of those. I can't remember the names exactly, but there have been rather large protests and turnouts about the execution of a couple of unappealing white guys in California in recent years. The racial angle on this is mainly b.s.

01-08-2006, 01:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	People are just digging to make this a racial issue because everyone wants something to bitch and moan about. Not to be preumptuous, but does he even want to stay alive in his current state? No, I don't support the death penalty, but I also realise that going out and protesting EVERY SINGLE ONE will dull the effects of the protests. Pick your battles, and sticking to more "viable" causes like Tookie Williams improves the chance of actually getting clemency for someone. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato Last edited by Suave; 01-08-2006 at 01:14 PM..

01-08-2006, 01:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	is it just me, or does the article make no mention of the guys crime? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-08-2006, 06:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	I can think of few who deserved to be killed more that Tookie Founder of the Crips Williams. He was directly or indirectly responsible for the murder of many untold dead. He was black? Big fucking woop tee do. Clarence Allen is another sparkling specimen of humanity. He's white? I refuse to notice. There's one sure way to stay off of Death Row in the United States: don't murder innocent 17-year girls with pre-meditation. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

01-16-2006, 11:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Im having a difficult time with the fact that he died (since his heart stopped) and they resurrected him so they could execute him...isnt that (pardon the pun) overkill? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-16-2006, 11:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	well no, in my opinion thats two different things....hastening his death by starving him and resurrecting him when he was already dead arent exactly the same thing __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-08-2006, 01:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Why is he on death row? How has he behaved in prison? and the hell with his color.

01-08-2006, 05:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Tookie's thing was that he was a strong credible anti-gang voice. Many people thought that he had value in decreasing gang membership. What this guy has to do with anything like that is beyond me. Seems to me like a rather dimly thought out attempt to paint tookie's supporters as racists.

01-16-2006, 12:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lucifer Husband of Seamaiden Location: Nova Scotia	I have no problem with the fact of his being put to death, or with him being revived and then put to death. He murdered someone in a state with a death penalty, what did he think was going to happen to him? And the fact that he went ahead and organized 3 more murders from behind bars simply shows a cold callous man with no regard for other's lives. Faced with such a man, I have no problem with his being put to death. __________________ I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. - Job 30:29 1123, 6536, 5321

01-16-2006, 12:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	ok, my mistake, I thought when a person's heart has been asystolic, that they were clinically dead, but when restarted by defibrillation they were "brought back to life" hence my using the term resurrection __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-16-2006, 12:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Personally, I think putting him to death at this point is a mercy killing-he should be taken off death row and left to die crippled, blind, deaf and whatever else his miserable existance tosses his way. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

01-16-2006, 12:35 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tachion Crazy	You can't be half pregrant anymore you can be half a killer. If you can justify killing then you are the same as any killer, you just differ on the justification for it. I think it is time society showed it is different that they people it punishes. Killing an old deaf man who has spent so many years facing death is about us, not about him. I disagree with killing - no matter who is doing it as it says that life is something we can judge.

01-16-2006, 01:25 PM	#18 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	"Allen's attorneys have asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene, arguing that executing a feeble old man amounts to cruel and unusual punishment." The state has had to feed, shelter, and maintain the health of this bastard for 30 years! The cruelty has been to the surviving families of his victims. If any reform of the system is needed, it's to expedite sentences in these cases. Give inmates access to all of the resources they need to appeal... for a limited time. If they can't prove their case........ __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

01-16-2006, 01:45 PM	#20 (permalink)
albania Psycho	I think he should have been killed a long time ago, the fact that he's suffering from old age has nothing to do with the crimes he committed a long time ago. He's old oh does that mean he's nice, does that mean that we should forgive him...hell no. I see something such as the death penalty serving three purposes, one it is for retribution/punishment, second deterrent, and third the elimination of people who because of the heinous nature of their crime have little chance at rehabilitation. So would the death penalty serve its purpose here in my mind it would.

01-16-2006, 02:06 PM	#22 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Tookie there had some powerful friends, and had been saying the right things for 10-20 years or more. Whether he meant them or not is another matter; but he got some people to speak for him. Clarence Allan Ray is a mean and violent, someone who has done violence and arranged for others to do it on his behalf even after he went to prison for murder. He never said he was sorry in any way that resonated with anyone emotionally. The only ones out there for his execution will be those who oppose all death penalties on principle. And there are a lot of those. I can't remember the names exactly, but there have been rather large protests and turnouts about the execution of a couple of unappealing white guys in California in recent years. The racial angle on this is mainly b.s.