He Legally Changed His Name To KentuckyFriedCruelty.com - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lindalove · 12-31-2005, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Deciding to make a statement every time he’s asked for or signs his name, a 19-year-old PETA staff member—formerly known as Chris Garnett—has legally changed his name to KentuckyFriedCruelty.com, the same name as PETA’s Web site that gives the lowdown on KFC’s refusal to eliminate the worst abuses of chickens raised and killed to fill its buckets. The former Dover Plains, New York, resident and current Street Team coordinator of peta2—PETA’s youth division—has the official state papers and driver’s license to prove it. His parents—who have been supportive since he went vegan at age 15—were a little shocked at first, but although they insist on still calling him Chris, they’ve accepted the change.

KentuckyFriedCruelty.com’s advocacy for animals has been the defining force in his life since he was a child. His father would take him fishing, but when he saw the animals struggling at the end of a hook, he insisted on taking up bird-watching instead. He started the first animal rights group at both his high school and college, fought for the right of students to refuse dissection, and pressured cafeteria officials to offer more vegetarian options. Under KentuckyFriedCruelty.com’s watchful eye, peta2’s Street Team has grown to more than 100,000 dedicated young activists across the country who will mobilize in defense of animals at a moment’s notice.

Why on Earth did KentuckyFriedCruelty.com feel the need to change his identity? What’s so bad about KFC? The more than 850 million chickens killed each year for KFC are tortured in ways that would result in felony cruelty-to-animals charges if dogs or cats were the victims—from being drugged and bred to grow so large that many become crippled from the weight of their massive upper bodies to having their throats slit and being scalded to death while they’re still conscious. KFC ignored the recommendations for animal welfare improvements made by members of its own advisory panel, five of whom have since resigned after being ignored for years. KFC advisor Adele Douglass told the Chicago Tribune that KFC “never had any meetings. They never asked any advice, and then they touted to the press that they had this animal-welfare advisory committee. I felt like I was being used.”

KentuckyFriedCruelty.com joins the growing ranks of consumers, celebrities, and scholars—including actor Pamela Anderson, The Rev. Al Sharpton, Sir Paul McCartney, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama—who are helping out in PETA’s campaign to force KFC to end its abusive treatment of chickens.

Is this guy for real? If so, I think he's gone too far.

Sage · 12-31-2005, 07:45 AM

Magwa spit on PETA.

Homegrown terrorism in my opnion. You shouldn't have to steal, intimidate, or threaten to get your point across. Now, I totally, 100% support animal rights, and no, tying firecrackers to a dog's tail shouldn't go unpunished...

but every now and then I need me some fried buzzard, ya dig?

Aladdin Sane · 12-31-2005, 09:55 AM

Makes me wanna go out and buy a bucket or three of Extra Krispy today.

Glory's Sun · 12-31-2005, 10:00 AM

Yeah I'm sure by changing his name he's going to get a lot of people to stop eating at KFC. (I don't eat it but .. plenty of people do). The people that eat there are just going to laugh at him and get chicken spittle all over his face. This isn't the first person to change their name to something like this. I can't remember what the other PETA freak changed hers to. ..... which is the main point.. nobody cares.(about this guy)

Dael · 12-31-2005, 10:47 AM

That really seems to be the most hilarious part of some people's actions like this: what do they really think they're going to accomplish? Pretty much only a few people laughing at them when someone posts the info on some internet forum

meepa · 12-31-2005, 11:05 AM

This is what happens when you combine extremists with fully independant teenagers who have a healthy dose of optimism and an only ephemeral sense of responsibility which applies more to "saving the world RIGHT NOW!" than to "am I being an idiot right now?" Obviously I don't know the guy, but that won't stop me from being judgemental when I get the feeling that he's just another fresh-into-college hopeful who hasn't yet defined himself yet. As such, he finds an extremely enthusiastic organization that will be happy to define him FOR him and direct all his bustling energy to serve their own goals. At the end of the day, I doubt he's hurting anybody, and with the amount of publicity he generates, I'm confident that out of however many people end up visiting the website he is advertising, at least ONE will stop eating KFC... so it isn't completely worthless to him.

flamingdog · 12-31-2005, 11:26 AM

Fucking teenagers.

Willravel · 12-31-2005, 11:37 AM

I'm going to change my name to somepoepledon'tbelonginthegenepool.com/idiot.html

flat5 · 12-31-2005, 12:01 PM

God bless him. He's doing all he can for something he believes in.
Not a bad cause either. How much money would CFK lose if they changed their business practices? The publicity may do a little good.

World's King · 12-31-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

God bless him. He's doing all he can for something he believes in.
Not a bad cause either. How much money would CFK lose if they changed their business practices? The publicity may do a little good.

Wow... you're serious, aren't you?

Have a chicken leg. On the house.

flat5 · 01-01-2006, 03:59 AM

They do taste good, I guess.
They are so pumped with chemicals that you should not eat them often, I guess again.

If someone opened a chain of chicken eateries that processed a relatively "natural chicken" would it be a success?

He can always change his name again.

DonovanDuVal · 01-01-2006, 07:39 AM

Well you cynics might think that this kind of action has no effect, but let me tell you, you're completely wrong. I have been a vegetarian for seven years now, and even though I am not driven to eat chicken because of this story, I am going to swerve to kill them when driving. And that ladies and gentlemen is because of KentuckyFriedCruelty.com nee Chris Garnett.

What a tosser!

Cynthetiq · 01-01-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

They do taste good, I guess.
They are so pumped with chemicals that you should not eat them often, I guess again.

If someone opened a chain of chicken eateries that that processed a relatively "natural chicken" would it be a success?

He can always change his name again.

Yes, go to Whole Foods market and buy their rotisserie chicken... I don't recall off the top of my head if they fried selections, but they may, and they happen to be nationwide.

As far as this gent is concerned, at least when I'm introduced to him I'll know he's a fucktard by the second syllable of his name and can dismiss anything that comes out of his mouth automatically.

Gatorade Frost · 01-01-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanDuVal

I have been a vegetarian for seven years now, and even though I am not driven to eat chicken because of this story, I am going to swerve to kill them when driving. And that ladies and gentlemen is because of KentuckyFriedCruelty.com nee Chris Garnett.

I'm wildly confused by this. You're a vegetarian of seven years who was converted to not eat at KFC by some one who just recently changed their names, but despite being a vegetarian (who doesn't eat at KFC for ethical reasons) you would still swerve to kill a chicken walking on the road?

superiorrain · 01-01-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorade Frost

I'm wildly confused by this. You're a vegetarian of seven years who was converted to not eat at KFC by some one who just recently changed their names, but despite being a vegetarian (who doesn't eat at KFC for ethical reasons) you would still swerve to kill a chicken walking on the road?

I second that confusion.

The fact that we are talking about this on here is justification for the guy changing his name. The fact that this is being reported in the media means that people may just think twice when going into KFC. I know most people won't but even if a few thousand people world wide do surely KFC may consider changing their practices.

Daniel_ · 01-01-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingdog

Fucking teenagers.

Tried it - it was rather good.

flat5 · 01-01-2006, 02:46 PM

I don't think a reason is needed for not causing unnecessary pain to a creature.

However, here is some info about how great chickens are.
I learned a few things :-)

http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenliveschickens.asp

The Hidden Lives of Chickens
Brainy Birds

Several research teams have recently published findings on chicken
intelligence that have challenged old notions about avian cognitive
abilities. For instance, scientists have found that chickens clearly
understand cause-and-effect relationships, an advanced comprehension skill
that puts their intellect beyond that of dogs. In the book The Development
of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken, Dr. Lesley Rogers, a professor of
neuroscience and animal behavior, concludes, "[I]t is now clear that birds
have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals, even primates."7

In one experiment that explored chickens' understanding of causal
relationships, researchers found that when injured chickens were offered the
choice between regular food and food that contained a painkiller, the birds
soon understood that the medicated food made them feel better, and they
learned to seek it out it over the other choices. "The chickens will take
the analgesic every time," says Dr. Joy Mench, a professor in the Department
of Animal Sciences at the University of California at Davis. They understood
cause and effect and learned how to make the best decision.8

Chickens can also grasp other complex mental concepts. For instance,
according to Evans, chickens are able to understand that objects still exist
even after they are hidden or removed from view. This level of cognition is
actually beyond the capacity of small human children.9 Researchers also
recently reported that chickens "can anticipate the future and demonstrate
self-control, something previously attributed only to humans and other
primates."10 Scientists made this discovery after they observed that when
given the option between pecking a button and receiving a small food reward
instantly or holding out for 22 seconds in order to receive a larger food
reward, chickens in the study demonstrated self-control by holding out for
the larger reward over 90 percent of the time.11

Chickens are social animals who form complex social hierarchies and interact
in complex ways that are indicative of what anthropologists call "culture."
For example, researchers have shown that chickens learn from observing the
success and failure of others in their community. One experiment that
demonstrated this finding involved teaching one group of chickens to peck
red and green buttons a certain number of times to obtain a food reward.
Researchers were surprised to find that when a new group of chickens watched
those who had learned how to push the buttons for food, the new chickens
quickly caught on by watching the others. At a scientific conference, Dr.
Christine Nicol, who worked on the on the study, told her colleagues, "They
may be ‘bird brains, but we need to redefine what we mean by ‘bird brains.
Chickens have shown us they can do things people didnt think they could do.
There are hidden depths to chickens, definitely."12

Researchers have also found that chickens have a cultural knowledge that
they pass down from generation to generation. John Webster, a professor at
Bristol University in the U.K., set up a study in which he gave chickens a
mixture of yellow and blue kernels of corn. The blue kernels were tainted
with chemicals that made the birds feel sick, and they quickly learned to
avoid the blue corn entirely (this is also another example of their
understanding of cause and effect).

When the chickens in Websters study had their young, he spread yellow and
blue corn around the farm, and even though he made it so that both types
were harmless, the mother hens remembered that the blue corn had previously
made them sick, and they steered their young away from it. In an article in
the London Times, Webster explains, "What this tells us is that the mother
hen has learnt what food is good and what is bad for her, that she cares so
much for her chicks she will not let them eat the bad food, and she is
passing on to her young what she has learnt. To me, that is pretty close to
culture - and an advanced one at that. Chickens are sentient creatures and
have feelings of their own."13

Scientists have been so impressed with the cognitive capabilities of birds
that a group of international experts recently called for a new naming
system to reflect the advanced nature of birds brains. According to an
article that appeared in The Washington Post, "The new system, which draws
upon many of the words used to describe the human brain and has broad
support among scientists, acknowledges the now overwhelming evidence that
avian and mammalian brains are remarkably similar - a fact that explains why
many kinds of bird are not just twitchily resourceful but able to design and
manufacture tools, solve mathematical problems and, in many cases, use
language in ways that even chimpanzees and other primates cannot."14

7 Lesley Rogers, The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken, CABI
Publishing: Oxfordshire, U.K., 1995: 217.
8 Specter.
9 Grimes.
10 Jennifer Viegas, "Study: Chickens Think About Future," Discovery News 14
Jul. 2005.
11 Viegas.
12 Ananova.
13 Valerie Elliott, "Why Did the Chicken Cross the Road?" London Times
Online 18 Mar. 2005.
14 Weiss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hidden Lives of Chickens
Social Smarts

People who have spent time with chickens know that they have complex social
structures, adept communication skills, and distinct personalities, just as
we do. Colorado State University Distinguished Professor Dr. Bernard Rollins
notes,
"[C]ontrary to what one may hear from the industry, chickens are complex
behaviorally, do quite well in learning, show a rich social organization,
and have a diverse repertoire of calls. Anyone who has kept barnyard
chickens recognizes their significant differences in personality." 15

Like people, chickens each have a place or rank within their
group - some birds are dominant, and others are expected to be more
submissive because they are on a lower social rung. Chickens know their
places within the hierarchy, and they act accordingly - for instance, when
learning how to perform a new task, they often follow the lead of the
dominant members in their group.16 Mench explains, "Chickens show
sophisticated social behavior. - Thats what a pecking order is all about."17
Chickens also remember the faces of those in their social group; Mench
continues, "They can recognize more than a hundred other chickens and
remember them."18 Scientists agree that chickens complex social structures
and good memories are undeniable signs of advanced intelligence comparable
to that of mammals.

Talkin Chicken

Chickens communicate with each other through their "clucks" - Mench
explains, "They have more than thirty types of vocalizations."19 They have
different calls to distinguish between threats that are approaching by land
and those that are approaching over water, and a mother hen begins to teach
these calls to her chicks before they even hatch - she clucks softly to them
while sitting on the eggs, and they chirp back to her and to each other from
inside their shells.20,21

15 Bernard Rollin, Farm Animal Welfare: Social, Bioethical, and Research
Issues, Iowa State University Press: Ames, Iowa, 1995: 118.
16 Ananova.
17 Specter.
18 Specter.
19 Specter.
20 Grimes.
21 The Humane Society of the United States, "Chickens," 2005.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hidden Lives of Chickens
Small Birds, Big Personalities

Like all animals, chickens love their families and value their own lives.
The social nature of chickens means that they are always looking out for
their families and for other chickens in their group. In the wild, chickens
spend most of their time in groups - they enjoy foraging for food, taking
dustbaths, and roosting in trees together at night. After he toured United
Poultry Concerns in 1998, Ira Glass, the host of National Public Radios
This American Life, was so impressed with the personalities of the chickens
he met that he hasnt eaten chicken or any other animal flesh since.

Mother hens care deeply for their babies - Jesus even refers to the
loving protectiveness of a hen toward her chicks in the Gospels, which were
written almost 2,000 years ago.22 Indeed, a mother hen will turn her eggs as
many as five times an hour and cluck soothingly to her unborn chicks.23 Hens
prefer to have private nests for their eggs in protected areas far away from
predators. According to The Humane Society of the United States, "The desire
[for a private nest] is so strong, in fact, that a hen will often go without
food and water, if necessary, to use a nest."24 This demonstrates the fact
that hens will sacrifice their own comfort if it means protecting their
chicks.

Besides bonding to their young, chickens also form strong friendships and
enjoy spending time with their companions, just like we do. Kim Sturla, the
manager of Animal Place, a sanctuary for farmed animals near Sacramento,
recounts a touching story of two chickens. "We rescued an elderly hen, Mary,
from a city dump and later an elderly rooster, Notorious Boy. They bonded,
and they would roost on the picnic table. One stormy night with the rain
really pelting down, I went to put them in the barn and I saw the rooster
had his wing extended over the hen, protecting her."25

22 The Bible, Matthew 23:37-38 (New King James version), BibleGateway.com
2005.
23 The Humane Society of the United States.
24 The Humane Society of the United States.
25 Alex Cukan, "Chickens More Than Just Dumb Clucks," United Press
International, 20 Sep. 2002.

Cynthetiq · 01-01-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

I don't think a reason is needed for not causing unnecessary pain to a creature.

However, here is some info about how great chickens are.
I learned a few things :-)

http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenliveschickens.asp

The Hidden Lives of Chickens
Brainy Birds

Several research teams have recently published findings on chicken
intelligence that have challenged old notions about avian cognitive
abilities. For instance, scientists have found that chickens clearly
understand cause-and-effect relationships, an advanced comprehension skill
that puts their intellect beyond that of dogs. In the book The Development
of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken, Dr. Lesley Rogers, a professor of
neuroscience and animal behavior, concludes, "[I]t is now clear that birds
have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals, even primates."7

In one experiment that explored chickens' understanding of causal
relationships, researchers found that when injured chickens were offered the
choice between regular food and food that contained a painkiller, the birds
soon understood that the medicated food made them feel better, and they
learned to seek it out it over the other choices. "The chickens will take
the analgesic every time," says Dr. Joy Mench, a professor in the Department
of Animal Sciences at the University of California at Davis. They understood
cause and effect and learned how to make the best decision.8

Chickens can also grasp other complex mental concepts. For instance,
according to Evans, chickens are able to understand that objects still exist
even after they are hidden or removed from view. This level of cognition is
actually beyond the capacity of small human children.9 Researchers also
recently reported that chickens "can anticipate the future and demonstrate
self-control, something previously attributed only to humans and other
primates."10 Scientists made this discovery after they observed that when
given the option between pecking a button and receiving a small food reward
instantly or holding out for 22 seconds in order to receive a larger food
reward, chickens in the study demonstrated self-control by holding out for
the larger reward over 90 percent of the time.11

great that explains how the chicken in Chinatown NYC can play Tic Tac Toe and play a pretty compelling game

it doesn't really matter. We've learned tha animals do have social structures, big deal. If we personify all animals we'll just eat vegatables, oh wait, they did learn not too many years ago that plants can "feel" pain.

Latch · 01-01-2006, 03:50 PM

$10 says he's done it to impress some hot PETA girl (or guy).

maximusveritas · 01-01-2006, 04:03 PM

I don't see how he's gone too far. Does it really affect anyone negatively?
What it has done is bring this story into the media and got people talking about it. He'll probably change his name later on once his 15 minutes are up and it'll be a success.

Suave · 01-01-2006, 05:08 PM

That man is my hero, if only because his driver's licence is so hilarious that he won't get into any bars until he's past "carding" age.

Suave · 01-01-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorade Frost

I'm wildly confused by this. You're a vegetarian of seven years who was converted to not eat at KFC by some one who just recently changed their names, but despite being a vegetarian (who doesn't eat at KFC for ethical reasons) you would still swerve to kill a chicken walking on the road?

I don't see anywhere that he stated he is a vegitarian for ethical reasons. He's also probably using hyperbole.

analog · 01-01-2006, 07:07 PM

This article is bullshit propaganda...

Quote:

Why on Earth did KentuckyFriedCruelty.com feel the need to change his identity? What’s so bad about KFC? The more than 850 million chickens killed each year for KFC are tortured in ways that would result in felony cruelty-to-animals charges if dogs or cats were the victims—from being drugged and bred to grow so large that many become crippled from the weight of their massive upper bodies to having their throats slit and being scalded to death while they’re still conscious. KFC ignored the recommendations for animal welfare improvements made by members of its own advisory panel, five of whom have since resigned after being ignored for years. KFC advisor Adele Douglass told the Chicago Tribune that KFC “never had any meetings. They never asked any advice, and then they touted to the press that they had this animal-welfare advisory committee. I felt like I was being used.”

KentuckyFriedCruelty.com joins the growing ranks of consumers, celebrities, and scholars—including actor Pamela Anderson, The Rev. Al Sharpton, Sir Paul McCartney, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama—who are helping out in PETA’s campaign to force KFC to end its abusive treatment of chickens.

I'd like to know the link to this KC Masterpiece of a "news" story. It's publicity writing, not news.

Somewhere, a PETA higher-up has a plate of animal-friendly, organically-grown zuchini, and is masturbating with them and laughing while watching their propaganda become "news". I hope he plans on getting a job with PETA for his whole life, because I don't know who would ever hire some ass with a website for a name.

Also, let's please all remember to include some sort of discussion to start a thread with linked articles, not just "this is right/wrong, what do you think?"

Oh, and fuck PETA. That is all.

Gatorade Frost · 01-01-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

I don't see anywhere that he stated he is a vegitarian for ethical reasons. He's also probably using hyperbole.

Ooooh - He was being sarcastic in a round about way. He's a vegetarian, but not for ethical reasons, and the KFCruelty campaign has inspired him to hit chickens. I get it now.

Sage · 01-01-2006, 10:05 PM

amen analog!

biznatch · 01-01-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

This article is bullshit propaganda...

I'd like to know the link to this KC Masterpiece of a "news" story. It's publicity writing, not news.

Somewhere, a PETA higher-up has a plate of animal-friendly, organically-grown zuchini, and is masturbating with them and laughing while watching their propaganda become "news". I hope he plans on getting a job with PETA for his whole life, because I don't know who would ever hire some ass with a website for a name.

Also, let's please all remember to include some sort of discussion to start a thread with linked articles, not just "this is right/wrong, what do you think?"

Oh, and fuck PETA. That is all.

I honestly don't see why so many people are this negative about the issue. Have you been on the site Kentucky Fried Cruelty? I won't go there anymore since I've seen how they treat the animals.
Watch the videos. If someone wants to show compassion, I'm not saying I'd do it myself, but hey: at least he's pushing his message through. The animals could be treated much more ethically, many of the things that they go through are unnecesary.
Most people aren't aware of what's really going on in those factories..I know someone who didn't care about animal rights, and since he once visited a McNuggets factory, he never ate them again.
If you don't care, its fine, but I don't think you should stamp him with a "retarded asshole who has nothing better to do" sign. And the zuchinni masturbation was, IMO, a bit...weird. Why are you against "animal-friendly" people?

flat5 · 01-02-2006, 05:18 AM

biznatch, I think some people just don't care about how most animals are treated.
"I want to eat it. Do what you have to do to prepare it for me."

I see the issue as "do what you can to make the 45 days of the chicken's life as nice as possible." Chickens don't ask for much. Give 'em some room and let 'em peck.

I imagine corporate greed (shareholder's greed) is the root cause of the problem. I assume the people providing the birds are the lowest bidders.

Gilda · 01-02-2006, 05:32 AM

I hate it when I see things like this because basically I agree with the broad point he's trying to make about unnecessary cruelty to animals, and stunts like this just serve to make him look like an idiot and the cause insignificant by association.

It's like the "truth" people with their two page ads in comic books featuring eyes sewn shut. I agree with the basic message, but it matters just as much how you say what you say as it does what you say. In this case, it's so extreme that it turns people away from the cause to which you want to entice them.

Gah. Why can't there be more people with both passion and reason?

Gilda

cowudders14 · 01-02-2006, 02:13 PM

Well, to add my 2p, it did acheive something at least slightly positive: I had a look at the website. Quite shocking stuff realy, but, then again, I eat there rarely anyway, and sometimes, you do just get the urge to have a KFC. And that urge must be satisfied...

I will, however, think twice next time I get that urge though...

cowudders14 · 01-02-2006, 02:15 PM

Oh, and, doing a bit of searchnig, pamela anderson supports it! That's all the evidence I need about the link between this and brain power...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/...tm?POE=LIFISVA

biznatch · 01-02-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

Chickens don't ask for much. Give 'em some room and let 'em peck.

I imagine corporate greed (shareholder's greed) is the root cause of the problem. I assume the people providing the birds are the lowest bidders.

It's not like that...what the companies are doing is not "giving them some room to let them peck" . Room wouldn't be a concept that'd be understandable to those chickens...they can hardly see the ground because the room is packed full. It's not like they can roam around...and a lot end up not being physically able to move anyway, because often their legs break under the weight of their bodies (the hormones make em grow too fast compared to the legs) . This pressure would make the chcikens go nuts and "peck" at each other, so to prevent this they clip off the ends of the beaks, an extremly painful procedure.
I understand people wanting to save money, but when someone takes action to protect animal rights he shouldn't be insulted (even though I don't think Mr. KFCruelty.com did do the smartest thing to attract compassion).

Suave · 01-03-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Gah. Why can't there be more people with both passion and reason?

Gilda

I'm pretty sure if there was a book of antonyms, passion and reason would qualify.

True passion overrides reason, and true pragmatism overrides passion.

tspikes51 · 01-03-2006, 01:43 AM

Fuck, I hate PETA. How about instead of spraypainting people's fur coats, changing your name to Ima Dickhole.net, or destroying farmers' entire lives, write to your goddamn congressman. That's what we pay them for. Destroying people's shit and changing your name isn't gonna do shit for you. You can't be a martyr if what you die for means nothing.

About eating meat being murder, here's how I look at it:

1) We need to eat meat. We're designed that way.
2) The animals we eat may be "smart," but only in the sense that they spend their entire lives eating and shitting.
3) Yeah, I do the same thing basically, but how many other species cannibalize themselves?

PastorTim · 01-03-2006, 03:18 AM

The lengthy chicken info article was a bit TMI for my tastes, but I guess it's good to share...

I wonder if the PETA man has it better than this fellow...

...and NO, I have no plans to start sending my tithe to him [below]... lol...

<PS: I suppose this might have gone in the philosophy thread, BUT since we're talking about "drastic" name changes, I thought it was okay to post it here...>

Quote:

Judge Lets Man Change Name to Jesus Christ
By SAMUEL MAULL
Associated Press Writer
Dec 23 6:43 PM US/Eastern

NEW YORK - A Manhattan man's holiday spirits soared to celestial heights Friday when a judge gave him permission to change his name to Jesus Christ. Jose Luis Espinal, 42, of Washington Heights, said he was "happy" and "grateful" that the judge approved the change, effective immediately. Espinal said he was moved to seek the name change about a year ago when it dawned on him, "I am the person that is that name."

Espinal, who acted as his own lawyer, got the change approved by Manhattan Civil Court Judge Diane Lebedeff, who said she was "satisfied that this application is neither novel, nor would granting it pose practical problems."

The judge said name change applications usually are not denied just because the change might cause practical difficulties or be thought unwise, as long as a person with the same name does not object to the proposed change.

She cited a 2001 Utah case in which a man legally changed his name to "Santa Claus" and a Washington, D.C., case earlier this year in which a name change applicant obtained a driver's license and Social Security card in the name of "Jesus Christ."

The judge compared those cases with that of actor Peter Lorre's widow, who objected to a man who said he was the actor's relative changing his name to "Peter Lorie."

Though laws differ by jurisdiction, the judge said, there seems to be a nationwide consensus that a name cannot be changed to a number. She cited a South Dakota court ruling against a change to "1069" and a California court rejecting "III" as name.

The judge said she held a hearing in which Espinal, who also uses the last name Tejeda, testified. She said he was aware of the "common law right to assume another name without legal proceedings so long as the change is not made to deceive or perpetrate a fraud or to avoid an obligation" but wanted to go the formal route anyway.

The judge said Espinal's "reasons were primarily those applicable to his own private religious beliefs and he stated no desire to use his proposed name to secure publicity, to proselytize, to fund-raise or advise others that he had been cloaked by the courts or government with a religious authority."

Espinal, who is unemployed and unmarried and has no children, said, "This was not done for any reason other than I am that person. You're dealing with the real deal."

ironman · 01-03-2006, 10:24 AM

It's amazing how is that as you grow old you see things from a different perspective. When i was a teenager i almost enrolled greenpeace and agreed with PETA in many of its statements, nowadays, i just laugh at their stupidity and hypocresy. Did you ever watched the Bullshit show in which they showed that PETA has a cold room to kill dogs?

kutulu · 01-03-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superiorrain

I second that confusion.

The fact that we are talking about this on here is justification for the guy changing his name. The fact that this is being reported in the media means that people may just think twice when going into KFC. I know most people won't but even if a few thousand people world wide do surely KFC may consider changing their practices.

Seriously. For next to no cost, PETA generated a national stories. Mentioned on talk shows, message boards, and casual conversations. I may hate them and everything they do but they are masters at free pub.

Just for that, I'm going to eat some KFC today for lunch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Yes, go to Whole Foods market and buy their rotisserie chicken... I don't recall off the top of my head if they fried selections, but they may, and they happen to be nationwide.

Ugh, I can't stand that place. I walked through there the other day and their prices are just asinine. Organic bell peppers were $7.50 per pound!11!. Its not just the organic things that are overpriced. Everthing is maked up way higher than other stores. Moet White Star Champange was $46/bottle. At a normal grocery store it's like $30-35. At least they can claim 'higher quality' with their meat or produce (it probably isn't that much better though) but there is nothing different about that bottle yet they charge their customers 50% more.

analog · 01-03-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

I honestly don't see why so many people are this negative about the issue. Have you been on the site Kentucky Fried Cruelty? I won't go there anymore since I've seen how they treat the animals.
Watch the videos. If someone wants to show compassion, I'm not saying I'd do it myself, but hey: at least he's pushing his message through. The animals could be treated much more ethically, many of the things that they go through are unnecesary.

~And the zuchinni masturbation was, IMO, a bit...weird. Why are you against "animal-friendly" people?

Re: zuchinni... it's the preferred vegetable for both anal and vaginal masturbatory stimulation. Seriously though, the point was that it's hype, propaganda- NOT news. It's not informative, it's sensational- and it's about as unbiased as Michael Moore or O'Reilly.

Re: the site, the videos...

I'm sure you garnered some measure of stomach-wrenching horror, disgust, and personal umbrage towards KFC for the "treatment" of the chickens on those videos. I don't want this thread turning into a "why the KentuckyFriedCruelty site and videos are total bullshit" thread, because at least one already exists. Since i've seen the site, I invite anyone here to read the thread where the site and vids are shredded and picked apart more thoroughly than the chickens in the KFC factory. Bottom line is, not surprisingly, compassion for a purported cruel treatment of animals is overriding the use of intelligence and reason in many respects of the propaganda used (example: the notion that the chickens are alive when boiled, etc... they're unconscious or dead already. Flapping wings and body movement have got shite to do with being alive. Every living creature's body convulses and wrenches post-mortum... humans, fish, foul, roaches, everything).

So, they spin the info in such a way, and use the video of moving chickens, to convince the more "easily lead" (those already with a weak spot for animals) that somehow chickens are alive when being dropped in boiling water, having their throats slit, etc.

I don't hate animal lovers, not by a long shot, and never said such a thing. I love animals, but I also recognize the role that some animals play in the food chain. See, you're trapped in the same use of unsubstantiated hyperbole that your PETA people use. You're buying into the same lame arguments. I didn't say anything about animal-friendly people. If your choice is to not eat animals, I applaud you for your decision, even though it's not mine. The problem I have is with people and organizations, like PETA, where they use FALSE information and brainwash-style tactics to get people to their cause. Their so-called "information" is just what some people want to hear, and leaves out the rings of truth that make a sane and competent person see through their thin veil of nonsense.

When it all comes down to it, most of the propaganda (written and video) they have can be easily and thoroughly debunked as rhetoric, not fact.

Did you know they put out a comic book geared for children that shows devilish-looking men catching fish and calls it murder, then (and this is the good part) warns children to be careful for their doggies and kitties too, because who knows where their murderous rampage will end.

PDF of the comic about fishing. This is supposed to be for kids... and NOT brainwashing nonsense? Yeah, ok.

This is supposed to be for children? Another non-brainwashing gem from PETA.

Gilda · 01-03-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

I'm pretty sure if there was a book of antonyms, passion and reason would qualify.

True passion overrides reason, and true pragmatism overrides passion.

Yeah, like the thesaurus, for example.

But I have to disagree here. Feeling intensely about a subject doesn't necessarily lead to extremist thinking. One can have a position on the spectrum that's moderate and still feel strongly about that moderate position.

For example, I happen to feel very strongly about issues concerning gay rights, wanting equal treatment and protection for gays and transgender people. I feel very strongly about this. Howver, my position is fairly moderate. I don't want special privileges or preferential treatment, just for everyone to be treated equally. Moderate position, high intensity.

Think of it as a four quadrant grid running from -10 to +10 along both axes, with the x axis being a measure of where one is on the issue, and the Y axis measuring the degree of intensity of one's feelings. On gay rights, I'd be pretty close to the center on position, maybe a +1 or +2 on the position scale, but very high on the intensity scale, well up in the +8 to +10 range.

Conversely, on the issue of saying the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, I'm way off on one end in my position--probably a -8 there, but don't really care very much, maybe a +2.

I think people like PETA or Truth, who go to such extremes when promoting their message are like extreme radical feminists or people who constantly play the racism or sexism card where it isn't warranted. They do more damage to their cause than benefit.

Gilda

People who go to extrems

snowy · 01-03-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

When it all comes down to it, most of the propaganda (written and video) they have can be easily and thoroughly debunked as rhetoric, not fact.

This is why I no longer bother to look at PETA links on this board. I figured out a long time ago than almost everything they put out regarding food production in this country is so far from the truth it's laughable. And yes, unlike some of the posters here, I grew up in the country and spent the first half of my life in and around farms.

The fact is, I would prefer animals to be treated in a more ethical manner and fed better feed (vegetarian, antibiotic-free) but I am not in a position at the moment to vote with my wallet and buy only free-range, organic, veggie-feed meat (it tastes better too). I am poor. If I want meat, it's going to have to be the cheap stuff. That said, I'm so poor I don't eat a lot of meat, period.

In this case, as in all cases, the answer is not extremism. Extremists are not taken seriously. PETA shows this to us time after time.

c172g · 01-03-2006, 01:13 PM

The guy is an idiot, working for an idiotic organization. We're on top of the food chain (in most cases, anyway, save for a few shark & bear attacks). We get to eat everything else. It's just the way it is. Whether you are eating a peice of lettuce or a nice zinger wrap from KFC, something died to provide your food.

If you have a problem with that, wish for reincarnation & come back as something lower on the chain. Life will be a lot more interesting, and much shorter.

Has anyone filed any lawsuits against the rest of the carnivores for their methods of feeding themselves? Killer whales throw seal pups around for hours before finally eating them. Wolves & hyenas will pull peice after peice of skin off of their prey, just waiting for them to finally give up & lay down. There aren't many good ways to die save a quick heart attack. That's the way things go, sorry...

12-31-2005, 07:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Magwa spit on PETA. Homegrown terrorism in my opnion. You shouldn't have to steal, intimidate, or threaten to get your point across. Now, I totally, 100% support animal rights, and no, tying firecrackers to a dog's tail shouldn't go unpunished... but every now and then I need me some fried buzzard, ya dig? __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

12-31-2005, 09:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	Makes me wanna go out and buy a bucket or three of Extra Krispy today. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

01-01-2006, 03:59 AM	#11 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	They do taste good, I guess. They are so pumped with chemicals that you should not eat them often, I guess again. If someone opened a chain of chicken eateries that processed a relatively "natural chicken" would it be a success? He can always change his name again. Last edited by flat5; 01-01-2006 at 02:00 PM..

01-01-2006, 07:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
DonovanDuVal Crazy Location: UK	Well you cynics might think that this kind of action has no effect, but let me tell you, you're completely wrong. I have been a vegetarian for seven years now, and even though I am not driven to eat chicken because of this story, I am going to swerve to kill them when driving. And that ladies and gentlemen is because of KentuckyFriedCruelty.com nee Chris Garnett. What a tosser! __________________ "I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

01-01-2006, 05:08 PM	#21 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	That man is my hero, if only because his driver's licence is so hilarious that he won't get into any bars until he's past "carding" age. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

12-31-2005, 10:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Yeah I'm sure by changing his name he's going to get a lot of people to stop eating at KFC. (I don't eat it but .. plenty of people do). The people that eat there are just going to laugh at him and get chicken spittle all over his face. This isn't the first person to change their name to something like this. I can't remember what the other PETA freak changed hers to. ..... which is the main point.. nobody cares.(about this guy)

12-31-2005, 10:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Dael Upright	That really seems to be the most hilarious part of some people's actions like this: what do they really think they're going to accomplish? Pretty much only a few people laughing at them when someone posts the info on some internet forum

12-31-2005, 11:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
meepa Insane	This is what happens when you combine extremists with fully independant teenagers who have a healthy dose of optimism and an only ephemeral sense of responsibility which applies more to "saving the world RIGHT NOW!" than to "am I being an idiot right now?" Obviously I don't know the guy, but that won't stop me from being judgemental when I get the feeling that he's just another fresh-into-college hopeful who hasn't yet defined himself yet. As such, he finds an extremely enthusiastic organization that will be happy to define him FOR him and direct all his bustling energy to serve their own goals. At the end of the day, I doubt he's hurting anybody, and with the amount of publicity he generates, I'm confident that out of however many people end up visiting the website he is advertising, at least ONE will stop eating KFC... so it isn't completely worthless to him.

12-31-2005, 11:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.	Fucking teenagers.

12-31-2005, 11:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I'm going to change my name to somepoepledon'tbelonginthegenepool.com/idiot.html

12-31-2005, 12:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	God bless him. He's doing all he can for something he believes in. Not a bad cause either. How much money would CFK lose if they changed their business practices? The publicity may do a little good.

01-01-2006, 02:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I don't think a reason is needed for not causing unnecessary pain to a creature. However, here is some info about how great chickens are. I learned a few things :-) http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenliveschickens.asp The Hidden Lives of Chickens Brainy Birds Several research teams have recently published findings on chicken intelligence that have challenged old notions about avian cognitive abilities. For instance, scientists have found that chickens clearly understand cause-and-effect relationships, an advanced comprehension skill that puts their intellect beyond that of dogs. In the book The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken, Dr. Lesley Rogers, a professor of neuroscience and animal behavior, concludes, "[I]t is now clear that birds have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals, even primates."7 In one experiment that explored chickens' understanding of causal relationships, researchers found that when injured chickens were offered the choice between regular food and food that contained a painkiller, the birds soon understood that the medicated food made them feel better, and they learned to seek it out it over the other choices. "The chickens will take the analgesic every time," says Dr. Joy Mench, a professor in the Department of Animal Sciences at the University of California at Davis. They understood cause and effect and learned how to make the best decision.8 Chickens can also grasp other complex mental concepts. For instance, according to Evans, chickens are able to understand that objects still exist even after they are hidden or removed from view. This level of cognition is actually beyond the capacity of small human children.9 Researchers also recently reported that chickens "can anticipate the future and demonstrate self-control, something previously attributed only to humans and other primates."10 Scientists made this discovery after they observed that when given the option between pecking a button and receiving a small food reward instantly or holding out for 22 seconds in order to receive a larger food reward, chickens in the study demonstrated self-control by holding out for the larger reward over 90 percent of the time.11 Chickens are social animals who form complex social hierarchies and interact in complex ways that are indicative of what anthropologists call "culture." For example, researchers have shown that chickens learn from observing the success and failure of others in their community. One experiment that demonstrated this finding involved teaching one group of chickens to peck red and green buttons a certain number of times to obtain a food reward. Researchers were surprised to find that when a new group of chickens watched those who had learned how to push the buttons for food, the new chickens quickly caught on by watching the others. At a scientific conference, Dr. Christine Nicol, who worked on the on the study, told her colleagues, "They may be ‘bird brains, but we need to redefine what we mean by ‘bird brains. Chickens have shown us they can do things people didnt think they could do. There are hidden depths to chickens, definitely."12 Researchers have also found that chickens have a cultural knowledge that they pass down from generation to generation. John Webster, a professor at Bristol University in the U.K., set up a study in which he gave chickens a mixture of yellow and blue kernels of corn. The blue kernels were tainted with chemicals that made the birds feel sick, and they quickly learned to avoid the blue corn entirely (this is also another example of their understanding of cause and effect). When the chickens in Websters study had their young, he spread yellow and blue corn around the farm, and even though he made it so that both types were harmless, the mother hens remembered that the blue corn had previously made them sick, and they steered their young away from it. In an article in the London Times, Webster explains, "What this tells us is that the mother hen has learnt what food is good and what is bad for her, that she cares so much for her chicks she will not let them eat the bad food, and she is passing on to her young what she has learnt. To me, that is pretty close to culture - and an advanced one at that. Chickens are sentient creatures and have feelings of their own."13 Scientists have been so impressed with the cognitive capabilities of birds that a group of international experts recently called for a new naming system to reflect the advanced nature of birds brains. According to an article that appeared in The Washington Post, "The new system, which draws upon many of the words used to describe the human brain and has broad support among scientists, acknowledges the now overwhelming evidence that avian and mammalian brains are remarkably similar - a fact that explains why many kinds of bird are not just twitchily resourceful but able to design and manufacture tools, solve mathematical problems and, in many cases, use language in ways that even chimpanzees and other primates cannot."14 7 Lesley Rogers, The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chicken, CABI Publishing: Oxfordshire, U.K., 1995: 217. 8 Specter. 9 Grimes. 10 Jennifer Viegas, "Study: Chickens Think About Future," Discovery News 14 Jul. 2005. 11 Viegas. 12 Ananova. 13 Valerie Elliott, "Why Did the Chicken Cross the Road?" London Times Online 18 Mar. 2005. 14 Weiss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hidden Lives of Chickens Social Smarts People who have spent time with chickens know that they have complex social structures, adept communication skills, and distinct personalities, just as we do. Colorado State University Distinguished Professor Dr. Bernard Rollins notes, "[C]ontrary to what one may hear from the industry, chickens are complex behaviorally, do quite well in learning, show a rich social organization, and have a diverse repertoire of calls. Anyone who has kept barnyard chickens recognizes their significant differences in personality." 15 Like people, chickens each have a place or rank within their group - some birds are dominant, and others are expected to be more submissive because they are on a lower social rung. Chickens know their places within the hierarchy, and they act accordingly - for instance, when learning how to perform a new task, they often follow the lead of the dominant members in their group.16 Mench explains, "Chickens show sophisticated social behavior. - Thats what a pecking order is all about."17 Chickens also remember the faces of those in their social group; Mench continues, "They can recognize more than a hundred other chickens and remember them."18 Scientists agree that chickens complex social structures and good memories are undeniable signs of advanced intelligence comparable to that of mammals. Talkin Chicken Chickens communicate with each other through their "clucks" - Mench explains, "They have more than thirty types of vocalizations."19 They have different calls to distinguish between threats that are approaching by land and those that are approaching over water, and a mother hen begins to teach these calls to her chicks before they even hatch - she clucks softly to them while sitting on the eggs, and they chirp back to her and to each other from inside their shells.20,21 15 Bernard Rollin, Farm Animal Welfare: Social, Bioethical, and Research Issues, Iowa State University Press: Ames, Iowa, 1995: 118. 16 Ananova. 17 Specter. 18 Specter. 19 Specter. 20 Grimes. 21 The Humane Society of the United States, "Chickens," 2005. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hidden Lives of Chickens Small Birds, Big Personalities Like all animals, chickens love their families and value their own lives. The social nature of chickens means that they are always looking out for their families and for other chickens in their group. In the wild, chickens spend most of their time in groups - they enjoy foraging for food, taking dustbaths, and roosting in trees together at night. After he toured United Poultry Concerns in 1998, Ira Glass, the host of National Public Radios This American Life, was so impressed with the personalities of the chickens he met that he hasnt eaten chicken or any other animal flesh since. Mother hens care deeply for their babies - Jesus even refers to the loving protectiveness of a hen toward her chicks in the Gospels, which were written almost 2,000 years ago.22 Indeed, a mother hen will turn her eggs as many as five times an hour and cluck soothingly to her unborn chicks.23 Hens prefer to have private nests for their eggs in protected areas far away from predators. According to The Humane Society of the United States, "The desire [for a private nest] is so strong, in fact, that a hen will often go without food and water, if necessary, to use a nest."24 This demonstrates the fact that hens will sacrifice their own comfort if it means protecting their chicks. Besides bonding to their young, chickens also form strong friendships and enjoy spending time with their companions, just like we do. Kim Sturla, the manager of Animal Place, a sanctuary for farmed animals near Sacramento, recounts a touching story of two chickens. "We rescued an elderly hen, Mary, from a city dump and later an elderly rooster, Notorious Boy. They bonded, and they would roost on the picnic table. One stormy night with the rain really pelting down, I went to put them in the barn and I saw the rooster had his wing extended over the hen, protecting her."25 22 The Bible, Matthew 23:37-38 (New King James version), BibleGateway.com 2005. 23 The Humane Society of the United States. 24 The Humane Society of the United States. 25 Alex Cukan, "Chickens More Than Just Dumb Clucks," United Press International, 20 Sep. 2002.

01-01-2006, 03:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	$10 says he's done it to impress some hot PETA girl (or guy).

01-01-2006, 04:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I don't see how he's gone too far. Does it really affect anyone negatively? What it has done is bring this story into the media and got people talking about it. He'll probably change his name later on once his 15 minutes are up and it'll be a success.

01-01-2006, 10:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	amen analog! __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

01-02-2006, 05:18 AM	#27 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	biznatch, I think some people just don't care about how most animals are treated. "I want to eat it. Do what you have to do to prepare it for me." I see the issue as "do what you can to make the 45 days of the chicken's life as nice as possible." Chickens don't ask for much. Give 'em some room and let 'em peck. I imagine corporate greed (shareholder's greed) is the root cause of the problem. I assume the people providing the birds are the lowest bidders. Last edited by flat5; 01-02-2006 at 05:24 AM..

01-02-2006, 05:32 AM	#28 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I hate it when I see things like this because basically I agree with the broad point he's trying to make about unnecessary cruelty to animals, and stunts like this just serve to make him look like an idiot and the cause insignificant by association. It's like the "truth" people with their two page ads in comic books featuring eyes sewn shut. I agree with the basic message, but it matters just as much how you say what you say as it does what you say. In this case, it's so extreme that it turns people away from the cause to which you want to entice them. Gah. Why can't there be more people with both passion and reason? Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

01-02-2006, 02:13 PM	#29 (permalink)
cowudders14 Bringer of good Moos... Location: Midlands, UK	Well, to add my 2p, it did acheive something at least slightly positive: I had a look at the website. Quite shocking stuff realy, but, then again, I eat there rarely anyway, and sometimes, you do just get the urge to have a KFC. And that urge must be satisfied... I will, however, think twice next time I get that urge though... __________________ Moo! I'm mooey!

01-02-2006, 02:15 PM	#30 (permalink)
cowudders14 Bringer of good Moos... Location: Midlands, UK	Oh, and, doing a bit of searchnig, pamela anderson supports it! That's all the evidence I need about the link between this and brain power... http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/...tm?POE=LIFISVA __________________ Moo! I'm mooey!

01-03-2006, 01:43 AM	#33 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	Fuck, I hate PETA. How about instead of spraypainting people's fur coats, changing your name to Ima Dickhole.net, or destroying farmers' entire lives, write to your goddamn congressman. That's what we pay them for. Destroying people's shit and changing your name isn't gonna do shit for you. You can't be a martyr if what you die for means nothing. About eating meat being murder, here's how I look at it: 1) We need to eat meat. We're designed that way. 2) The animals we eat may be "smart," but only in the sense that they spend their entire lives eating and shitting. 3) Yeah, I do the same thing basically, but how many other species cannibalize themselves? __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

01-03-2006, 10:24 AM	#35 (permalink)
ironman Smithers, release the hounds Location: Guatemala, Guatemala	It's amazing how is that as you grow old you see things from a different perspective. When i was a teenager i almost enrolled greenpeace and agreed with PETA in many of its statements, nowadays, i just laugh at their stupidity and hypocresy. Did you ever watched the Bullshit show in which they showed that PETA has a cold room to kill dogs? __________________ If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

01-03-2006, 01:13 PM	#40 (permalink)
c172g Crazy Location: Michigan	The guy is an idiot, working for an idiotic organization. We're on top of the food chain (in most cases, anyway, save for a few shark & bear attacks). We get to eat everything else. It's just the way it is. Whether you are eating a peice of lettuce or a nice zinger wrap from KFC, something died to provide your food. If you have a problem with that, wish for reincarnation & come back as something lower on the chain. Life will be a lot more interesting, and much shorter. Has anyone filed any lawsuits against the rest of the carnivores for their methods of feeding themselves? Killer whales throw seal pups around for hours before finally eating them. Wolves & hyenas will pull peice after peice of skin off of their prey, just waiting for them to finally give up & lay down. There aren't many good ways to die save a quick heart attack. That's the way things go, sorry...