Parents gave crying baby vodka - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Psycho Dad · 11-29-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Police: Parents gave crying baby vodka
Blood alcohol level was almost six times the legal limit

FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (AP) -- Authorities are searching for the parents of a 3-month-old girl who died last year after her parents allegedly gave her lethal doses of vodka to quiet her crying, police said.

Makeisha Dantus died in 2004 but her parents were not charged until last month. By that time, they had disappeared.

The couple, Mackenson Dantus and Mardala Derival, are wanted on charges of aggravated manslaughter. Authorities said they believe the couple, both Haitian immigrants, were still in Florida.

Detective Katherine Collins said Tuesday that the delay in charging the couple stemmed in part from their lack of cooperation.

"The last thing you're expecting is for a child to die of alcohol poisoning at age 3 months," she said. "A homicide case is very delicate, and they take time, unfortunately."

Makeisha's father called 911 on February 14, 2004, because the baby was unresponsive, Collins said. The baby died at the scene.

According to a police report, the parents told officers that for about a month they had fed their daughter a bottle filled with a mixture of water, sugar and vodka to help her sleep.

Small quantities of alcohol have historically been used to quiet crying babies, but authorities said the amount fed to Makeisha was extreme.

The Broward County Medical Examiner's Office determined that the infant had a blood alcohol level of 0.47 percent. The legal limit for drivers in Florida is 0.08 percent.

Former Medical Examiner Dr. Ronald Wright said that for a baby to ingest that much alcohol would be the equivalent of a 160-pound adult drinking 18 beers.

According to a police report, the final autopsy showed that the child had been fed fatal doses of alcohol shortly before her death and her liver indicated severe buildup of excess fat due to alcohol consumption.

OK... Explain this

Quote:

Detective Katherine Collins said Tuesday that the delay in charging the couple stemmed in part from their lack of cooperation.

What kind of excuse is that? How does someone not cooperating cause charges to not be filed?

What we have here are two people who forced a baby to consume alcohol because they apparently were not mentally equipped to be parents. For a police investigation to not result in an arrest of these people is inexcusable.

Quote:

Small quantities of alcohol have historically been used to quiet crying babies, but authorities said the amount fed to Makeisha was extreme.

Extreme? No fucking shit Sherlock! Any amount to quiet a baby rather than tending to the cause of the baby crying is extreme. This crying was an indicator that the baby needed something. Fed, changed, cuddled, taken to a doctor. It damn sure wasn't asking for a vodka on the rocks.

These parents disgust me.

DEI37 · 11-29-2005, 07:10 PM

Gotta chuckle out of the "vodka on the rocks" statement, but in all seriousness, yeah, that's a messed up situation going on there. It's a well known fact that infants and alcohol are NOT a good mixture. These parents need the death penalty. By alcohol OD.

feelgood · 11-29-2005, 07:14 PM

A whole year? What the fuck does the detectives need to investigate that takes a whole year?

Psycho Dad · 11-29-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

These parents need the death penalty. By alcohol OD.

I wouldn't allow them to be given the numbing effects of the alcohol.

moot1337 · 11-29-2005, 08:38 PM

Just when I thought I had heard of the most f*cked up thing imaginable...

Wow. Just wow. I sometimes can't believe people are allowed to procreate without taking some sort of class first... you don't give a baby alcohol because it's crying... hell, you don't give a baby alcohol because you might (probably will) mess up its mental development!

I can hardly wait to see what the next low someone will stoop to will be...

analog · 11-29-2005, 09:32 PM

In today's news, some people are total idiots. Story at 11.

serlindsipity · 11-29-2005, 10:14 PM

postponed charges stemming from lack of cooperation? reminiscient of the Ramsey Case? wonderful

iblade · 11-29-2005, 10:25 PM

It's like the old popular act of masturbating young male babies to put them to sleep. I wonder if that could kill them though.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-29-2005, 11:20 PM

I got coke gummers when I was teething and couldn't sleep. And don't misconstrue that as me giving any sort of defense for these retards. Just wow. Terrible.

Aggrivated Mansluaghter sounds really soft. They should tack on any charge of Child Abuse/Endangerment/negligance that applies.

feelgood · 11-29-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iblade

It's like the old popular act of masturbating young male babies to put them to sleep. I wonder if that could kill them though.

Are you fucking serious? Some people do that?

iblade · 11-29-2005, 11:52 PM

Yeah. It was widespread in the dark ages in Europe, but I hear that it withered until the 19th century. I have to check it though. I'm still in the company so I'd rather not now. But if anyone is up to it...

tspikes51 · 11-30-2005, 12:10 AM

Kind of like the parents I saw today while I was working night shift... they come through my checklane at 12:30 with their kid that couldn't have been older than one and a half. They were wondering why he was restless and bitchy. I about told them exactly why.

iblade · 11-30-2005, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Outside the West, the sexual molestation of children is a routine practice in most families. Childhood in India begins, according to observers, with the child being regularly masturbated by the mother, the girl "to make her sleep well," the boy "to make him manly." The child sleeps in the family bed, witnesses and most likely takes part in sexual intercourse between the parents. The child is often "borrowed" to sleep with other members of the extended household, leading to the Indian proverb that "For a girl to be a virgin at ten years old, she must have neither brothers nor cousin nor father." Childhood is so eroticized that, as one Western observer put it, "The little Hindu girls are deflowered by the little boys with whom they play, and repeat together the erotic lessons which their parents have unwittingly taught them on account of the general promiscuity of family life throughout India. In all the little girls of less than ten years of age the complete hymen is wanting...Incest is often the rule rather than the exception."

Taken from here.

I'm pretty sure it happens in the west also. Even though it is treated as child abuse here, I believe there are cases where people truly think that it'll make the child sleep better...

ziadel · 11-30-2005, 02:40 AM

ya know, eastern european mothers would wet their fingers with some vodka and rub it on a teething babys gums....

but, thats a far cry from a bottle full of booze.

highthief · 11-30-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

A whole year? What the fuck does the detectives need to investigate that takes a whole year?

Perhaps there were other caretakers involved - you can't go charging the parent if Grandma was in the house too and might have just as easily done it.

I'm sure if the police had a case they thought they could make stick, they would have charged them already.

Psycho Dad · 11-30-2005, 05:02 AM

Questioning a grandma or uncle living in the home wouldn't have strung it out that much longer I don't think. This is likely another case of Florida officials dropping another ball like they did with the girl a few years back that social services didn't check up on as they should.

feelgood · 12-01-2005, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Perhaps there were other caretakers involved - you can't go charging the parent if Grandma was in the house too and might have just as easily done it.

I'm sure if the police had a case they thought they could make stick, they would have charged them already.

Granted, Grandma or Uncle, or whoever else was in the house may have done it but doesn't interviewing a person take a few days at the most? Testing evidence take few weeks at the most? And then give the lawyers a few weeks to put the case together? Maybe it should've taken at least few months but a year? Man, I've seen stories of murders on the news that takes less time because there was a house full of people, or lacking people with very little evidence or even crapload of evidence.

Yeah, like Psycho Dad said, this is just another case of Florida's law enforcement and/or child service dropping the ball again...

Bill O'Rights · 12-01-2005, 06:40 AM

Ok, this is fucked up. But...bear in mind, that my grandmother used to put a teaspoon of whiskey, in an 8oz bottle of water, to help me sleep, when I wasn't feeling well. When I was older, she would give me "cough medicine", made up of whiskey, lemon juice and honey. I still use that mixture to this day, and it works far better than any over the counter cough medicine that I've tried. Am I condoning what they've done? No. Obviously they went way too far, in dosing the child. But, in so far as giving an infant alcohol being moraly reprehensible...I don't think so. It's just our modern sensibilities coming into play. Grandma knew a thing or two.

JustJess · 12-01-2005, 06:51 AM

I have to agree with BOR. If I ever have kids, that teething baby that won't hush is likely to get a pinky dipped in whiskey run along their gums.

These people are just plain stupid. I wish their child didn't have to die for it, but on the bright side, they will hopefully not breed again and pass on their stupidity.

I don't want the government telling us who can/can't have kids, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to mandate childrearing classes for all 1st time mothers. Just about breastfeeding do's and don't's, reminder that a 1/5 of vodka will kill a baby, you know, the basics.

Stiltzkin · 12-01-2005, 09:03 AM

I just pictured something. So the government makes it mandatory for all first time parents to attend child-rearing classes. On the first day, the instructor asks "Okay, if you're an idiot, please raise your hand." Then there's a long and awkward pause as no one raises their hand. Time continues to elapse and still no one has raised their hand. The teacher sighs impatiently but still does not proceed.
I just find that mental image hilarious. Let's face it... there's a lot of people out there that shouldn't be having kids at all.

Bill O'Rights · 12-01-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiltzkin

Let's face it... there's a lot of people out there that shouldn't be having kids at all.

Very true. But, time was, that part of the "herd" thinned itself out by sticking screwdrivers into lightsockets and such. Now, we have warning labels, along with laws and regulations, that prevent these people from hurting themselves. Let's face it...these are the people that nature intended to die off early, so that they wouldn't reproduce. And now, we're suprised at the results?

meembo · 12-01-2005, 09:27 AM

Florida has such a dismal reputation in terms of child welfare. After all the kidnappings and missing foster children and the like, it's remarkable that officials still offer up lame excuses as to why a baby with a .47% BAC needs her parents' cooperation for prosecution.

Psycho Dad · 12-01-2005, 10:23 AM

I believe my grandmother did the whiskey thing too. But this was before more effective over the counter solutions. And she didn't kill any of us. I raised three boys and never had to share my booze with them to ease their teething, pain, hunger or ills.

Farcs18 · 12-01-2005, 10:27 AM

i'm suprised how i'm not suprised by these type of stories anymore!

The world is fucked.

Farcs

yellowchef · 12-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Welcome to Miami bitches.

This is not that uncommon, a lot of the immigrant population does weird things (like eat soap, feed their babies soap) they often give their babies and children leathal amounts of alcohol... this is not the first Ive heard of this here in the area and Ive only been here a few years. The reason it takes a year to investigate is well with the hurricane season it sets everything back at LEAST a month... then the Broward County Sheriffs office cant handle it(nothing in south fl can handle anything, its all on overload...) so nothing gets done.......hell a year is a short period of time all things considered... and if they cant find the woman and her husband ...........(they probably ran back to their country of origin)

Gilda · 12-01-2005, 07:06 PM

Yeah, it sucks. The problem is, I think, not in giving alcohol to a young child, which in a tiny amount is harmless, it's that it was taken to such a degree that it became fatal.

In other words, the problem here isn't the alcohol, it's the extreme nature of the behavior. Overdoing anything to such an extreme degree is dangerous and could be fatal.

Gilda

highthief · 12-02-2005, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

Questioning a grandma or uncle living in the home wouldn't have strung it out that much longer I don't think. This is likely another case of Florida officials dropping another ball like they did with the girl a few years back that social services didn't check up on as they should.

*shrug* - just as an example, you have 4 people in the house where a child died. One of them did it, but no one is going to admit it. You cannot arrest all 4, or whatever small case you have will fall apart.

Here in Ontario, just yesterday, they announced the arrest of a woman on manslaughter charges for killing her 3 month old (I think it was a case of shaken to death). The cops would have liked to press charges sooner, but sometimes they (or more accurately, the government prosecutors) will not proceed until they have all their ducks in a row.

I don't really care how long it takes, so long as they eventually get the right person and successfully prosecute. Isn't that what is important?

But don't let me interrupt with logic and common sense any rant *some* people want to make about cops, yet again.

maleficent · 12-02-2005, 06:42 AM

Parents charged with baby's vodka overdose

Quote:

Lethal dose was nearly six times the legal limit for adults
MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- A Florida couple accused of feeding their 3-month-old baby a lethal dose of vodka to quiet her crying surrendered to police in New Jersey Thursday.

Detectives tracked down a cell phone number and persuaded them to turn themselves in, officials said.

Mardala Derival and Mackenson Dantus were charged with aggravated manslaughter in the 2004 death of their daughter, Makeisha.

An autopsy determined she had a blood-alcohol level of 0.47 and severe liver damage when she died.

Derival, 22, and Dantus, 25, were awaiting extradition to Florida.

"We spoke to them for an extended period of time and convinced them that they needed to turn themselves in," said Elizabeth Calzadilla-Fiallo, a Sheriff's spokeswoman in Broward County, Florida.

"Our fugitive squad detectives did a good job of convincing them that this was the best thing for everyone involved," she added.

Officials contacted the two after getting Dantus' cell phone number from a relative.

The couple initially told police they had been giving their daughter a bottle filled with a mixture of alcohol and water to help her sleep.

According to a police report, the autopsy showed the child had been fed fatal doses of alcohol shortly before her death and her liver indicated severe buildup of excess fat due to alcohol consumption.

Former Broward County Medical Examiner Dr. Ronald Wright said that for a baby to ingest enough alcohol to reach 0.47. or nearly six times the adult legal limit. It was equivalent to a 160-pound adult drinking 18 beers.

The couple had no record of previous abuse allegations, said Dr. Michael Haney, whose team investigates child abuse deaths for the state's Department of Health.

vanblah · 12-02-2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

I believe my grandmother did the whiskey thing too. But this was before more effective over the counter solutions. And she didn't kill any of us. I raised three boys and never had to share my booze with them to ease their teething, pain, hunger or ills.

Just because something is sold as an "over the counter solution" does NOT make it more effective nor safer than alcohol. Alcohol in small doses is harmless. I'd venture to say that modern pain killers are far more harmful than a small amount of alcohol.

I am not condoning feeding an infant (or an adult for that matter) a lethal dose of alcohol ... even accidentally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tspikes

Kind of like the parents I saw today while I was working night shift... they come through my checklane at 12:30 with their kid that couldn't have been older than one and a half. They were wondering why he was restless and bitchy. I about told them exactly why.

Uh ... not all kids are "restless and bitchy" at midnight. My daughter sometimes stays up 'til 1 AM on the weekends. Not everyone subscribes to the notion that "children should be in bed by 8:30". While it's possible that the child was tired ... it's also possible that he stays up late every night and sleeps late every morning and he was restless and bitchy because he was bored or something else.

Psycho Dad · 12-02-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

But don't let me interrupt with logic and common sense any rant *some* people want to make about cops, yet again.

We won't because you aren't. Why it would take a year to question four people to see who was caring for the child the night it was poisoned likely won't be explained by anything other than excuses like the ones that the Florida investigators used.

highthief · 12-02-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

We won't because you aren't. Why it would take a year to question four people to see who was caring for the child the night it was poisoned likely won't be explained by anything other than excuses like the ones that the Florida investigators used.

So, better to make arrests early, screw up your case, and have a killer go free, than to take some time, get everything squared away, adn then proceed with a prosecution?

Alrighty, then...

Psycho Dad · 12-02-2005, 04:35 PM

No I’m saying it is best to make a timely arrest and not let the suspects come up missing. This case doesn’t even come close in complexity to the Laci Peterson murder case yet Scott Peterson was arrested about four months after his wife was killed. Questioning a handful of people who may have been present when the baby was given the vodka should not have under any circumstance taken that long.

As for rants… The only benefit of the doubt I want to give the police is that they are poor investigators and not simply unwilling to pursue a case against the killers of the child of Haitian immigrants.

And the thought that you are logical and gifted with common sense because you don’t share an opinion with someone is conjecture as well as presumptuous.

11-29-2005, 07:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Gotta chuckle out of the "vodka on the rocks" statement, but in all seriousness, yeah, that's a messed up situation going on there. It's a well known fact that infants and alcohol are NOT a good mixture. These parents need the death penalty. By alcohol OD. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

11-29-2005, 07:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	A whole year? What the fuck does the detectives need to investigate that takes a whole year? __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

11-29-2005, 08:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
moot1337 Insane Location: Learning to Fly...	Just when I thought I had heard of the most f*cked up thing imaginable... Wow. Just wow. I sometimes can't believe people are allowed to procreate without taking some sort of class first... you don't give a baby alcohol because it's crying... hell, you don't give a baby alcohol because you might (probably will) mess up its mental development! I can hardly wait to see what the next low someone will stoop to will be... __________________ And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. Oh, certainly, sir.

11-29-2005, 10:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
serlindsipity Psycho Location: Boulder Baby!	postponed charges stemming from lack of cooperation? reminiscient of the Ramsey Case? wonderful __________________ My third eye is my camera's lens.

11-29-2005, 10:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
iblade Crazy Location: Kyoto	It's like the old popular act of masturbating young male babies to put them to sleep. I wonder if that could kill them though. __________________ We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

11-29-2005, 09:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
analog Banned	In today's news, some people are total idiots. Story at 11.

11-29-2005, 11:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I got coke gummers when I was teething and couldn't sleep. And don't misconstrue that as me giving any sort of defense for these retards. Just wow. Terrible. Aggrivated Mansluaghter sounds really soft. They should tack on any charge of Child Abuse/Endangerment/negligance that applies. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-29-2005, 11:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
iblade Crazy Location: Kyoto	Yeah. It was widespread in the dark ages in Europe, but I hear that it withered until the 19th century. I have to check it though. I'm still in the company so I'd rather not now. But if anyone is up to it... __________________ We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

11-30-2005, 12:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	Kind of like the parents I saw today while I was working night shift... they come through my checklane at 12:30 with their kid that couldn't have been older than one and a half. They were wondering why he was restless and bitchy. I about told them exactly why. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

11-30-2005, 02:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
ziadel Myrmidon Location: In the twilight and mist.	ya know, eastern european mothers would wet their fingers with some vodka and rub it on a teething babys gums.... but, thats a far cry from a bottle full of booze. __________________ Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

11-30-2005, 05:02 AM	#16 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	Questioning a grandma or uncle living in the home wouldn't have strung it out that much longer I don't think. This is likely another case of Florida officials dropping another ball like they did with the girl a few years back that social services didn't check up on as they should. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

12-01-2005, 06:40 AM	#18 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Ok, this is fucked up. But...bear in mind, that my grandmother used to put a teaspoon of whiskey, in an 8oz bottle of water, to help me sleep, when I wasn't feeling well. When I was older, she would give me "cough medicine", made up of whiskey, lemon juice and honey. I still use that mixture to this day, and it works far better than any over the counter cough medicine that I've tried. Am I condoning what they've done? No. Obviously they went way too far, in dosing the child. But, in so far as giving an infant alcohol being moraly reprehensible...I don't think so. It's just our modern sensibilities coming into play. Grandma knew a thing or two. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

12-01-2005, 06:51 AM	#19 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	I have to agree with BOR. If I ever have kids, that teething baby that won't hush is likely to get a pinky dipped in whiskey run along their gums. These people are just plain stupid. I wish their child didn't have to die for it, but on the bright side, they will hopefully not breed again and pass on their stupidity. I don't want the government telling us who can/can't have kids, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to mandate childrearing classes for all 1st time mothers. Just about breastfeeding do's and don't's, reminder that a 1/5 of vodka will kill a baby, you know, the basics. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

12-01-2005, 09:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	I just pictured something. So the government makes it mandatory for all first time parents to attend child-rearing classes. On the first day, the instructor asks "Okay, if you're an idiot, please raise your hand." Then there's a long and awkward pause as no one raises their hand. Time continues to elapse and still no one has raised their hand. The teacher sighs impatiently but still does not proceed. I just find that mental image hilarious. Let's face it... there's a lot of people out there that shouldn't be having kids at all.

12-01-2005, 09:27 AM	#22 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	Florida has such a dismal reputation in terms of child welfare. After all the kidnappings and missing foster children and the like, it's remarkable that officials still offer up lame excuses as to why a baby with a .47% BAC needs her parents' cooperation for prosecution. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

12-01-2005, 10:23 AM	#23 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	I believe my grandmother did the whiskey thing too. But this was before more effective over the counter solutions. And she didn't kill any of us. I raised three boys and never had to share my booze with them to ease their teething, pain, hunger or ills. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

12-01-2005, 10:27 AM	#24 (permalink)
Farcs18 Upright Location: uk	i'm suprised how i'm not suprised by these type of stories anymore! The world is fucked. Farcs __________________ My Lifestyle Determins My Deathstyle! Brock Lesnar - Here Comes The Pain!

12-01-2005, 04:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
yellowchef Addict Location: Shalimar, FL	Welcome to Miami bitches. This is not that uncommon, a lot of the immigrant population does weird things (like eat soap, feed their babies soap) they often give their babies and children leathal amounts of alcohol... this is not the first Ive heard of this here in the area and Ive only been here a few years. The reason it takes a year to investigate is well with the hurricane season it sets everything back at LEAST a month... then the Broward County Sheriffs office cant handle it(nothing in south fl can handle anything, its all on overload...) so nothing gets done.......hell a year is a short period of time all things considered... and if they cant find the woman and her husband ...........(they probably ran back to their country of origin) __________________ the voices in your head are not real--but they still have some really great ideas. always remeber you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. But..you CAN choose the insane asylum where you have them all put away!

12-01-2005, 07:06 PM	#26 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Yeah, it sucks. The problem is, I think, not in giving alcohol to a young child, which in a tiny amount is harmless, it's that it was taken to such a degree that it became fatal. In other words, the problem here isn't the alcohol, it's the extreme nature of the behavior. Overdoing anything to such an extreme degree is dangerous and could be fatal. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

12-02-2005, 04:35 PM	#32 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	No I’m saying it is best to make a timely arrest and not let the suspects come up missing. This case doesn’t even come close in complexity to the Laci Peterson murder case yet Scott Peterson was arrested about four months after his wife was killed. Questioning a handful of people who may have been present when the baby was given the vodka should not have under any circumstance taken that long. As for rants… The only benefit of the doubt I want to give the police is that they are poor investigators and not simply unwilling to pursue a case against the killers of the child of Haitian immigrants. And the thought that you are logical and gifted with common sense because you don’t share an opinion with someone is conjecture as well as presumptuous. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.