barenakedladies

Ill first start by saying i almost put "african american santa claus" and then i thought santa claus isnt american so screw that PC bullshit. theres black and white... its not offensive and we shouldnt tip toe around the topic like its a sensitve one of what a lot people might say "WHAT TO CALL THEM" fuck off to those people.

anyways my point:

Went to marshall fields chicago yesterday. A huge staple of chicago christmas-time. I think THEY invented rudolph for christs sake ( i could be wrong)

Decorations EVERYWHERE and i was with my family. My sisters kis is 5 year sold and he wanted to see santa. It was a 2 hour wait and we paitently waited.

The "helper elf" asked us halfway through the line whether we wanted a video and a picture taken by marshall fields or if you were just "visiteing Santa" (and not buying anything)
we were just "visiting" and going to take our own picture so they shuffled us off in a line to the right.
The "buying customers" got shuffled off to the left.

my instant thought: two santas of course, thats genius.
but then i started thinking i wonder if the buying customer santa was better tha nthe visiting santa.

We get up to the visiting santa and it was a black santa claus. I had many thoughts going through my mind and i will list them right now:

-no big deal, little kids dont see color...they see santa
- santa is a fictional character who has been portrayed as a jolly old white guy with rosy cheeks for hundred of years, why confuse kids or have a black guy play him.
-in the new superman movie, you wont see a black superman, why? because superman... the fictional charcter is a white guy.
-i wonder if the "paying customer" santa is a white guy
- i wonder if they have two santas one white, one black, just to be politcally correct and have an anser to anyone complaining about equal rights.
-if so , why do the "just visiting customers" get the black santa, what kind of statement are you saying then?

just a lot of thoughts, and i wanted your opinion on this matter.

alansmithee

Don't bet on it. There's been a recent history of recasting white fictional characters as blacks. Remember The Honeymooners movie? And in Daredevil, the Kingpin was a black guy.

I must admit I would be a bit shocked myself about a black santa. I could make many a joke here, but I'll refrain out of good taste.

barenakedladies

i dont know, i feel like it goes against the whole FEEL of a character if you change the race.

I agree, that a good actor ,is a good actor, and it should matter if they are black or white to play the part.

and maybe superman was a bad example.

but how about that.

What about if a white guy played kunta kinte in roots.
do you think some people MIGHT have a problem with that?

Charlatan

There is a BIG difference between a white man playing Kunte Kinte and a blackman playing Kingpin... anyone can see that.


By the way, when Superman "died" a few years ago, one of the four Supermen that rose up from his ashes was black.

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maleficent

the beverly center in Beverly Hills california has a santa claus that's a muscle bound piece of beefcake... His tummy doesn't shake like a bowl full of jelly... and he gets lots of people (ok mainly horny women) to come sit on his lap... these women believe in him.

Santa Claus is an idea... Doesn't matter what race he is - just as long as he can ho ho ho...

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Charlatan

HA! When I was at the Beverly Centre a few weeks ago there were posters advertising the arrival of beefcake Santa... Very amusing.

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flat5

In the Netherlands, Black Peter is Santa's helper who judges which children were bad during the year. Children are told that Black Peter will enter the house through the chimney and leave a bundle of sticks or salt in their shoes instead of candy if they have been bad. Extremely bad children, they are told, will be put into Black Peter's gunny bag and carried off.

I will have to put up with this greasepaint on Friday & Saterday.
I need the money.

clavus

Both Santas were white, dude. One had just come down the chimney and was covered with soot. That's the working Santa. The "white" Santa was the lazy Santa.

I don't think kids care about Santa's color, but I think they notice.

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zz0011

...it certainly does sound like THIS Santa is ho, ho, ho'ing...

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Willravel

Santa Clause is based on Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas, though born in Turkey, was caucasian. I have no problem with the man in the suit being portreyed as a different race, but he originally was white (with a tan).

It probably was a pc choice based on complaints and threatened lawsuits by not-so-colorblind people.

Apokx

"Saint Nicholas is revered by many as the patron saint of seamen, merchants, archers, children, prostitutes, pharmacists, lawyers and prisoners and of Russia and Amsterdam."

This part from your Wikipedia link made me laugh a little.

A little bit of irony there.

Stare At The Sun

Indeed. Kids don't care, but they do notice the race of Santa. No reason to change something thats centuries old for being PC imo.

ryfo

Thats right and the Santa with the jolly red cheeks and twinkly eyes has already visited quite a few houses that left out scotch and cookies...just ask dad.

clavus

I checked the inside of my head, and it looks like Santa IS a black man -



... or maybe a robot

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Cynthetiq

15+ years ago I was santa claus... and I'm filipino...

It is different... but Santa is a concept not an image.

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Marvelous Marv

How 'bout that! I thought it was an STD.

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snowy

They also cast Denzel Washington as Gray Grantham in the Pelican Brief, despite the fact the closing chapter clearly mentions the fact that Gray is very, very white and in need of a tan.

And flat5 beat me to the mention of Black Peter...darn you.

Happy Sinterklaasdag.

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Fire

You cannot tell me that morgan freeman would not make a great santa... while traditionaly, santa might be white, I do tend to come down on the side of the character being the embodyment of the season, color aside.....

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Lebell

Just an fyi,

Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer was invented as an ad campaign for Montgomery Wards. (30's?)

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

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Ustwo

The black Green lantern from the justice league is a definate improvment.

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RAGEAngel9

On the comic, issue Kingpin's defining traits are more the poor inner city kid growing up to the rich and powerful crime lord. Kingpin's race isn't really a factor in this since he's from New York.
John Stewert (Black GL) has been around for at least 20 years. So while he is the token black guy in JL, at least he wasn't created for the show.

On to Santa (could it be SATAN!!):
White Santa is the same a white Jesus. It's just a matter of perception and identifyibility (yeah for new word Monday). Your heroes and mythological charaters tend to be more like you so you feel closer.

In reality, I'm sure it was just some guy who was black that was willing to be Santa.

zz0011

I'd like to see Bobcat Goldwaite as Santa.

Who would you like to see play him?

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Redlemon

My immediate thought was the great piece <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1108137">"Santaland Diaries" by David Sedaris.</a> (link to page with RealAudio link). It's a great behind the scenes Christmas story from someone playing an elf, and a black Santa factors into the story. He's a great wiseass. Duration 9:15.

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Martian

Santa is Santa. You tell the kids that Santa is magical and can change his appearance as he sees fit.

I mean that's how it works, right? Santa, being the kindly old man he is, changes his appearance from white to black or asian or latino or filipino or whatever other race every so often, so that the kids of those races don't feel like he's playing favourites.

I don't think Santa's bringing me any presents this year - I have no chimney in my apartment and also no room for a Christmas tree.

/still believes

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Cynthetiq

I guess... i always thought he was white based on the pictures, movies, shows, specials et. al.

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Gilda

A kid who is young and/or naive enough to believe in a Santa Claus isn't going to care what color he is. It's the magic that matters.

Gilda

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zz0011

What a minute?!?!?!?!?

Are you trying to say Santa ain't real?!?!?!?!?!?

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spongy

I will try to post some evidence to back this up, but the current image of Santa with the red outfit and glasses, beard, belly, etc was firmed up by the Coca-Cola company in the early to mid 20th century.

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Mojo_PeiPei

Still spongy the fact remains, historically St. Nick was a honky ass crackar.

Steel, Portrayed convincingly by Shaq.

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leftyderek

Hey something similar for Christmas tales in Switzerland. My Swiss girlfriend told me there's a character called either 'Schwarzerpeter' (Black Peter, obviously) or 'Schmuzli' (loosly translated as... blacky? Germans/Swiss please correct me here)

Also, I do think rudolph is a later invention- as far as I know in Europe there weren't really any rudolphs around in the old days, according to my Icelandic schoolmate.

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Ananas

How can one Santa be better than another?

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barenakedladies

my point about the non paying customers getting the black santa is a social commentary on how marshall fields believes that the black people visiting the mall dont have any money or wouldnt spend the money for a photograph so they get the black santa. the white customers who HAVE money get the white santa.

This is all speculation of course... but it makes you think on what marshall fields is thinking..

d*d

It shouldn't and doesn't matter but you are politicizing it, would it have been positive discrimination the other way round? It is you making the distinction, and forming the judgements albeit in an objective manner.

And as for the 'white' superman argument the appearence of santa clause is far more open for interpretation than that of superman, the only reason he dresses in red is down to coke, he used to dress in green.

Gilda

Rudolph was invented by a Montgomery Wards advertising copywriter for a Christmas sale sometime in the 30's or 40's.

Gilda

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william

Once again, a holiday for all has to be made into a holiday for the "privledged", and Santa is a white "Saint". Santa has no more basis than "Kwanza", or any other holiday(?) . It's not supposed to be about who is better than what; it's supposed to be about the "meaning of the season". Most have seem to have lost that.

longbough

Is he based on the South Pole?