And it starts. . .
 

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editoria...A23-387307.htm


This'll start world war three. I'm predicting it now.

IMO, good for the cafe owner. It's about time parents figure out that we don't have the right to inflict our children on others.

Below a sign from a restaurant owned by a family member. This family member had plenty of offspring (3 kids), and is also a grandmother.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...9203_0_ALB.jpg

You may not be able to control their volume, but you can control their location. Which means if they cannot behave, remove them from the location and bring them to some where that isn't offending to EVERYONE around them, which means YOUR OWN LIVING SPACE.

Answer: Yes. You chose to have kids. It's called MAKING SACRIFICES. I choose to not have children so that I don't have to make such sacrifices.

Vote with your wallet. You don't like it don't patronize the business. But, "Oh but they make the best blah blah blah..." Too fucking bad. Have some stones and conviction, oh right you don't have any because you cannot get your kids to shut up or behave properly.

YAY him... and I love the sign - children of all ages... that screams to me adults too --like the obnoxious adults who don't know how to use their indoor voices when yakking on their insipid cell phones.

I get really really sick of people's ill mannered children. The parent may think they are adorable... The rest of the population disagrees... Muzzle it.

Now if only I could get this guy to start an airline... :)

Funny. I just read this myself, and thought really hard about starting the same thread.

To initially make my side of this clear:
If there was a kid/no kid section, I'd be sitting happily in the "no kid" section.

To parents: I like you, and your kids just fine. I also respect the incredible amount of work and sacrifice you've chosen to make for your kids. Thank you for being parents. In a few years, I'll try it myself. In the meantime...

I'd like to enjoy my time, without the screaming.

It's really about location, more than anything. Say I'm at the mall, and there are loud kids. Who cares? I'm at a large public noisy gathering place. I'd be happy if there was no ramptant rioting of the little ones, but my standards for quietness are much looser in such a location.

There are however, places unlike the mall where we adults go to have pleasant conversation and relaxation. You parents remember those places? You used to go to them before you had kids.

This lady summed up the attitude problem:
See, you CAN do somthing about it. Instead of letting your kid scream, you can remove them from the area. I guess it's because I got spanked by my parents when I misbehaved, and because we DID abrubtly leave places when me or my sister wouldn't stop whatever it was. I also remember my parents being PISSED at us when that happend. Like everyone else they did want to have a nice dinner out, in a pleasent environment, and thier kids took that away from them. Unlike many parents, they made the sacrifice instead of making everyone else around them make it.

You have a right to a kid, and I support your decision to face that challenge. I haven't made that choice, and I do want to enjoy my peace and quiet. Somtimes, that means being far away from you and your kids.

On the other hand, I can't praise parents of well behaved kids enough. They're maybe 1 in 10, but god bless them.

Weird. I read that on another site a week or more ago.

My first thought was BRAVO! Wish I could give the guy some business.

Our local shops aren't terrible but this time of year is the worst. It's already busy and behavior standards go out the window. Add a cell phone conv or two and I run. I've yet to see a local restaurant with an "inside voices" policy. :(

Heh.

The basics of this story can be summed up real fast.

It's THEIR restaurant. As such, they can do this if they wish.

It's YOUR money. As such, you can do something known as not supporting their business if you wish.

Awesome!

I HATE little children that have irresponsible parents. When I was working once, there was a mother who let her daughter stand on the counter and shriek shrilly over and over and over, without asking her to be quiet. It was ridiculous. Oh, and then there was the other time that the parents just let their 1-2 year old son wander back behind the counter and to the espresso bar. His parents didn't even notice that I had to shoo him back out to them. nwlinkvxd suggested that I should have just taken him into the back room and left him there, and seen what the parents would have done.

Ugh, I like this rule. No irritating little brats.

Although I realise kids do scream and wander I also pay my hard earned money for a nice meal out or a cuppa in a cafe and I would like to enjoy myself and that means not listening to others children scream and run around unsupervised. Another pet hate is when the parent gives the kid something to occupy them and it just so happens to be something that makes alot of noise, I am not anti-kid but I think there are restaurants and eateries that cater for families, I do not go to McDonalds and expect peace and quiet.

I am a mother of 2 children, 1 of which is 3 years old and can be a handful, and I think the owner of this shop has every right to post that sign. It is his business and he wants the majority of his customers to be able to enjoy their meal. Personally, if it were me, sign or no sign, if my son acts up, we are out of there. It is just common decency. We actually do not go out to nice restaurants very often, just for this reason.

There is nothing more annoying than a misbehaving kid. I have seen kids climb on the back of the booths at a Denny's, a toddler running around the restaurant where I worked, pulling on the tables clothes, kids going full speed down the aisles of grocery stores...and not one parent grabbing that kid and reading them the riot act. When I asked the mother of the toddler where I worked to please seat him, the tables had glasses that could break, she shot me a look to kill.
Once, my son threw a tantrum while in line in Walmart. Horrified, I tried to think what to do. Everyone was staring! While he sobbed, I said, 'stick out your tongue'. He did. "Now, sing your ABC's". He began to sing, still sobbing a bit, tongue sticking out. He began laughing, everyone around did as well, crisis averted.
Had we been anywhere else, I would have and have gone so far as to hightail it outta there.
Yea, kids cry, they scream, but parents can avert that to a point and if the kid is too young to be predictable and responsive, keep it home with a babysitter. The rest of us are out to get AWAY from our kids, not have to endure yours.
Bravo to these business owners. I'm betting the very ones who are offended the most have the brattiest kids.

If I were a restaurant owner, I wouldn't say anything to the parents, I'd just punt the little fuckers into the next dimension.

But seriously, it's good that the restaurant owner is making a stand. Parents nowadays are so fucking stupid that it kills me. They think they have every right in the world to do whatever they want. They also get offended and outraged over the most minor shit. Things that they aren't even right about.

I love parents who parent. That's what I love; parents who see their little hellion acting out and do something about it rather than sit there and talk louder to drown out the sounds of their children screaming. That's what I love. Nobody forced you to have children. An educated woman, both psychologist and 'corporate coach,' whatever that means, should know better. If you're going to have them, the least you can do is take a little responsiblity for them. I'm getting a little tired of all this 'it takes a village' crap and it's nice to see I'm not the only one.


I love parents like you. :thumbsup:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Maybe we could send you over to Ms. Miller's house to teach her a thing or two. :)

I tend to like kids, and don't really mind them when they're screaming. When they're screaming, it's the parents I dislike. Kids make noise, and sometimes (perhaps often) it's unpleasent noise. It happens. It's just that when these kids make these noises in public places, they should be quieted by parents.

And when they behave, they're adorable. I was at Second Cup once, and a father and his daughter were there. She was so cute and well behaved, especially for a kid that couldn't have been more than four. "Daddy, can I please have hot chocolate?"

I love well behaved children. I hate bad behaved parents.

Right on. My wife used to think I hated kids because I'd get pissy when a kid would scream for 5 minutes on end in a public place. I finally convinced her that I felt SORRY for the kid and ANGRY at the parent. Kids are not served well by hands-off parenting.

Ones children are ones responsibility- when I was a child, if I could not behave, we left or did not go- what the hell happened to common courtesy, and why do people think that the owner of the place and the other patrons should have to deal with their brats- note that most of the problems cited were with kids old enough to be under controll, running around and doing stupid/ potentialy dangerous stuff- and many of the statements also involved parents ignoring their kids to read or talk, while in a pubilc place- this is not allowed in my book, for good reasons- Note that for the record, while I do not have kids(yet) it is on the list, and I hope that I can do a better job that a lot of those that i see.... Also note that I sell sharp, dangerous things for a living, so irresponsible parents of small kids with inquisitive fingers are a sore spot

Reading Ngdawg's comments reminded me of a time when Mrs Ryfo went to a popular restaurant that had booths and was seated next to young kids (they were at the back of her booth) The 'child' (or demon spawn- as Mrs Ryfo named him) proceeded to pull my wifes hair HARD and giggle and keep doing it. After informing the parent of what happened and turning away, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!! Turning quickly Mrs Ryfo yelled at the parent to watch her child or lock it up! (BTW young child = 6or 7 yrs old) As she explained to me she knew it was a family place, but she still thought basic manners were not alot to ask for, andshe didnt yell at the kid but the adult present.

Amen. Don't blame the child--blame the parent. It's their fault for not doing their job. And don't blame the restaurant when they try to enforce something parents should be doing anyways.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks parenting has gotten slack. When my brother and I were kids, we were treated like most here have stated. Either you behaved or you got in trouble or you went home. I agree with the statements that it's the parents who are at fault, not the children. Children will do whatever parents let them get away with.

Just last night my wife, her friend, me and my two kids (aged 11 and 3) went out for dinner at local restaurant.

My kids were generally well behaved throughout the dinner. At one point, my daughter started to act up. She was immediately given a warning to either behave or she would have to go outside. She repeated what she was doing and was taken by the hand and left outside the restaurant (we could see her standing out in the cold, not four feet from where we were sitting). She wasn't happy.

She came in and apologized and enjoyed the rest of her meal. She wasn't an angel by any means (she likes to torment her older brother) but the goffiness was confined to the table and the volume was respectable for the extablishment.


Too frequently, I see parents that just don't know, or are unwilling, to discipline their children. I just don't get it. It doesn't take much more than having an interest in your kids rather than yourself. That and a dose of self respect and respect for others.

i was on an NJ Transit train coming back from new york yesterday. there was a group of 5 or 6 kids on vacation with parents in the front of my car, and all i can say is thank god for noise-cancelling earbuds. every time i took them out to listen to an announcement the little brats were louder than before.

I'm sorry, I couldn't handle reading all of these posts because I was to busy seeing everyone calling children Little Fuckers and Little Shits. COME ON! You are all the same people that are blaming this on the parents..so why do you have to insist on calling these children such names...it's trully disprespectful to ones of such innocense.

Yes, I am a mother. I am a mother to three wonderful little girls, all under the age of 6 yrs. I totally agree with what these businesses are doing. I know how to plan around nap times, feeding times and breakdowns. I have sacrificed many a resturaunt of my own will because I know they are not a place for children. I have also found a wonderful place in my area called Java Jungle that has great coffe and a HUGE indoor play yard, slides and all.

I have no qualms with people wanting peace where peace is expected, but don't start calling the kids names, call their parents those names because they are the ones who don't want to step up and take charge....the kids just don't know any better.

Thank you very much,
Sincerely,
A Mom who would rather take the blame for her own actions then have her kids called something so derogitory, even if they don't hear it themselves.

as above, dag nabit!

I have a niece and a nephew who are little shits... because their idiot mother ALLOWS them to be. These are uncontrollable monsters - -and the only reason why someone hasn't killed these little shits is that the girl is a angelic and blonde - the boy is just as cute... they work the cuteness... I'm over it -they are little shits. If their mother would control them, then they would cease to be little shits.

Same as an adult.. if someone wants my respect - -they earn it...

My sentiment exactly. There was a thread on another site I frequent that was much harsher than this one. It always upsets me when I see people disrespect children as a group.

I can't stand parents that don't parent. I often have to stifle the urge to discipline other people's children at restaurants, playgrounds, even the homes of friends. My daughter never gets away with misbehaving in public places (or anywhere else). When she does, we immediately take her outside. Usually, she gets to sit in the car and do nothing until everyone else is done.

Edit: Most posts in this thread that used derogatory comments about children seemed to be focused on particular children. Still, I'm always bothered by derogatory language toward children. Attack the parent, not the child.

As a parent, I support the owner.

I also don't like poorly behaved children and make it a point to use them as "bad examples" for my own kids.

As a parent of a young one who could make your ears bleed with screams I respect the right of the owner to put up the sign, control your kids (not always possible!) or leave. Seems simple enough to me. His place, his rules. My house, my rules, pretty standard stuff here.

I take my daughter all the time to restaurants, I just make sure they are kid friendly restaurants, places were you expect noise and confusing. Kids should go to mcdonalds, taco-bell...etc, not 5 star places with wine menu's. Plus as a parent, like I want to spend 12$ bucks on effing chicken fingers that my daughter is going to use as missiles anyway.

Well, I know who I am going to call the next time I find myself in a corporate game and find myself without leadership:

Corporate Coach? What in the Holy Fuck is that? Have we sunk so low as a society to allow this to occur? This woman is obviously creating her own title to impress the writer of the story!

Who do you coach? The corporation? It is a person, as described by law. How about the executives of the corporation? Naw, executive coach doesn't sound as sexy.

/ben runs off to make fancy new title

BigBen:
Industry Leadership Direction Specialist.
Financial Management Protocol Director
Director In Programming, Super High Intensity Training
Master and Commander, Accounts Recievable
Alpha and Omega
The One True Ben

I hate people somedays. I can assure you that Ms. Miller and I would not get along very well. Not today, anyways.

My daughter is 2 and she can sit through an hour long church service without making a sound. And this is with purely positive reinforcement! These are lazy, snobish parents who think that they run the world. Well, this resturant is a safe haven for those who don't like the shreiks and sounds of uncontroled kids. Shame on those parents for not knowing how to parent.
/get's off soapbox
As proud as I am of my daughter, I know that it is 100% natural for kids to act up, espically in a place as boring as a resturant. They DO bother other people, and disturb the general mood. Little kids don't belong at nice resturants or cafes. Take them to a kids eatery if you want to eat out. Chucky Cheese, despite having the worst pizza in history, loves to have kids and has plenty to keep them occupied.

Think "guidance counselor", but working with adults instead of children. My mother-in-law does this, in addition to high school guidance counselor, and a suicide prevention hot line. She has a Masters in social work.

Whatever about the article but I am so sick of this 'sense of entitlement' crap that people keep spewing about. These soapboxes have gotten really high lately.

I don't think that having a child compels you to only eat at "family" restaurants. I think that there's a happy medium between 5 star restaurant and Chucky Cheese or fast food. We take our two year old daughter to nice restaurants whenever we go out to eat. They aren't 5 star restaurants, but they are nice, have a wine list, etc. Our daughter speaks at a lower volume than most adults I know. She is better behaved than many adults I know. If she acts up or gets loud, we take her outside immediately. If we did take our daughter to a "family" restaurant, we would expect the same good behavior.

That said, I wouldn't take my daughter to a fancy, intimate restaurant. Nor would I take her to a bar.

I am a server...and more often than not, I see children running rampant..swinging off rails, yelling, pushing things over.

Just the other night, there was a child LAYING in the aisle next to the table, I tripped over him, and just barely missed spilling an entire tray of hot coffee on a table. His parents didn't say a word or even tell him to move. It is policy not to say anything, for fear of lawsuit. If I didn't need the damn job, I would have definately said something.

I do not hate children, I hate parents who do not parent. It's not the child's fault, they are children and will do what they want if noone tells them what is right and wrong.

My sentiments exactly. My mom raised 6 kids, if any of us ever acted out we got one warning then if we did it again we'd be in big trouble, then if we did it again...

...okay deadbeat parents pay attention to this part...

we actually got in trouble.

I hate it when parents say, stop it or I'll _____(fill in the blank) and then never go through with the punishment. Are these people aware that that is how you make a criminal? You can teach your kids responsiblity and cause and effect or the police and court system can. I think I'd rather see my kids sit in their rooms for 20 minutes rather than in a cell for 20 years.

It is nice for everyone to say "they should be better parents". Problem is there are no parent schools. Being a good parent is hard, and probably does not come naturally to too many people.

I am an ok parent, but I'm certainly not fantastic. My personality is one that makes me avoid confrontation, but being a good parent means you have to confront your little beast :) at times. I have had to do things that are counter to my personality to be a better parent.

Having said that, I have yet to take my child to a restaurant at all (out for coffee/milk shake yes, but full on meal no). I don't do McDonalds (very often) or the like because the food is generally shit - why should I go there? More often than not we eat at home - so there is no real issue, or we go to kid friendly places... He is only 18 months old, so not really ready for a proper sit down meal yet either ;)

My point is - it is fine to be high and mighty about how other people discipline their children, but that doesn't make good parenting easy.

And that is proper parenting... just because you went to a fancy schmancy place before the little darlings came along... doesnt give you a pass to go to those places with them in tow.


No one ever said parenting is easy... however a little common sense is required. If the little darling cant sit with his bottom on the chair for the course of a meal... then he stays home with a babysitter or he goes to a place that doesn't mind.

I'm with you, except that after having kids of my own, I no longer blame the parents for every bad thing the kids do.

Some kids with great parents grow up to be BIG shits.

Just to spare you some future embarrassment, you might want to look up "qualms," and have someone tell you what "quim" means. I doubt that you could find it in a dictionary.

I favor this technique
 

If my daughter can't behave in public, you won't see her at any restaurant whether or not they don't mind if she behaves badly.

The sign mentioned in the article said: I find it offensive. I would express my offense by not patronizing that establishment. I would not be offended by a sign that said: "We love PEOPLE OF ALL AGES, especially when they're tucked into chairs and behaving." I run into obnoxious adults at cafes and restaurants far more frequenty than obnoxious children.

I'm probably oversensitive. Last week someone at my child's daycare complimented me when I properly disciplined my daughter in front of them. I had a strong desire to say: "F** you. Mind your own F***ng business."
I make sure that my daughter behaves properly. I don't appreciate random people commenting on how I parent or should parent whether it's a compliment or a criticism. Again, I'm probably oversensitive.