Speaking of unorthodox parenting methods, my sister actually threatened to do this when she was about 11-12 and my old man looks her square in the face and says "If that's what you want, I'll call them for you. They aren't going to do anything to me, they're just going to take you and throw you in a foster home." He then proceeded to give her the rundown about what foster homes were really like, lets just say that 'threat' never came up again.

Back to the OP: This girl probably thinks its the lousiest crummy thing a parent has ever done in the history of parenting, much as I did for all the lousy crummy things my parents did to punish me that I thought were cruel and unusual. I was 14 only 6 years ago, and I can tell you now I'm grateful for every one of them. My parents rarely did stuff by the book, but it worked and I wouldn't be anywhere near the person I am today for all the punishments I received when I screwed up.

Did I get rewards for when I wasn't screwing up? Sure - my reward was not being punished. You can't say it better than maleficient:

Point taken. And you are right. It just takes me aback to find out that sooo many parents from my generation are in efect 'non-parents' and try to be friends with their kids.

I'm not sure why, as my values (and my wife's) have been to take the hard road, and ensure that there is a modicum of discipline, accountability as well as rewards. the kids certainly get pissed off at us, especially when they compare their friend's lifestyle to theirs. For example, the friends get to have all ranges of electronics in their bedrooms. Ours get a radio/cd player. The playstation has been disconnected (and will remain so during the school year - that is during Christmas it will be out again) and bed times are strictly enforced, so that they get as close to the requisite 10 hrs for growing kids per day.

It's hard, but the kids are happy that they get marks in the high 80's - 90's and are offered good part time jobs. they are proud of their bronze medallions for swimming, and are glad that we enrolled them in lessons. There is also the Kumon done on a daily basis which has pretty well guarranteed that they are not afraid of math.

A lot of work for us parents, but that's what we signed on for. My wife even retired from her (very well paying) job as an IT consultant for Price Waterhouse, to be a stay at home mom. Mostly to ensure that homework effort is supported, and it has worked out well, despite the sudden lack of funds...

Maybe the turn has been that there is an increase in 2 parents working per household, and that leaves kids to raise themselves, and parents who are too tired to deal with the full slate of parenting at the end of the day.

comparing myself to my friends lead my father to reply,"You want to live like that, then go live with them. See if their parents will take you and give you those things."

It's easier growing up poor, no one has anything so you don't expect much. Hell we (the guys) were happy for one football to play with in the middle of the street.