Pastor electrocuted while performing baptism - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

flat5 · 10-31-2005, 09:57 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/31/pas....ap/index.html

Monday, October 31, 2005; Posted: 5:12 a.m. EST (10:12 GMT)

WACO, Texas (AP) -- A pastor performing a baptism was electrocuted inside his church Sunday morning when he adjusted a nearby microphone while standing in water, a church employee said.

The Rev. Kyle Lake, 33, was stepping into the baptistery as he reached out for the microphone, which produced an electric shock, said University Baptist Church community pastor Ben Dudley.

Water in a baptistery usually reaches above the waist, said Byron Weathersbee, interim university chaplain at Baylor University.

Lake was pronounced dead at Hillcrest Baptist Medical Center, nursing supervisor Pat Mahl said. The woman being baptized apparently had not stepped into the water and was not seriously injured.

Pastors at University Baptist Church routinely use a microphone during baptisms, said Jamie Dudley, the wife of Ben Dudley and a business administrator at the church.

"He was grabbing the microphone so everyone could hear," she said. "It's the only way you can be loud enough."

About 800 people attended the morning service, which was larger than normal because it was homecoming weekend at nearby Baylor University, Dudley said.

Lake had been at the church for nine years, the last seven as pastor. He is survived by his wife, Jennifer, a 5-year-old daughter and two 3-year-old sons.

At a remembrance attended by about 1,000 people Sunday night at First Baptist Church, Ben Dudley told the UBC congregation that they would move forward as a church.

"I don't know how, when, why, where or what's going to happen, but we will continue as a church in the community because that is what Kyle would have wanted," he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A normal function of the church. Water up to the waist.
Why had this not happened before (in this church)?
Why was the electrical system not properly grounded. No one thought there might be a problem?

I Googled on the headline to find another report/article on this. Did not find even the CNN one but did find other occurances of electrocution while performing baptism.

Glory's Sun · 10-31-2005, 10:04 AM

what's that phrase about mysterious ways or some bs?? heh

:shrug: I'm really not sure why anyone wouldn't have thought about that before hand. They could have just rigged a mic suspended from the celing and everything would be ok.

or it could be some really bad ass halloween prank

liquidlight · 10-31-2005, 10:06 AM

Cordless microphones. . .what a concept.

I feel badly for his children though

analog · 10-31-2005, 10:12 AM

You can ground a wired microphone system until you're blue in the face, but you can still sometimes get a shock- it's rare, but that's the nature of the beast. This guy was just really unlucky in that respect.

BigBen · 10-31-2005, 10:13 AM

I thought this was funny as hell (pun not intended) until I read about the wife and kids left behind.

/begin funny Monty Python skit

Scene: Pastor standing in water, raises hands to the air. Microphone is just at arms reach, and as he begins sermon, voice is quiet but audible. Large congregation, line of people to be baptized. Camera angle at back of congregation.

Pastor: Lord, may you strike down all of the evil doers, all of the adulterers, all of the money-changers! May you Reap Vengance upon the guilty, may you show your power to the blasphemers, the wicked, those who work on the sabbath and take your name in vain! Can I get an AMEN?!

No response from congregation

Pastor: I SAID, CAN I GET AN AMEN?!?!

No response

Old lady sitting at front row: Maybe use a microphone, Pastor John...

flat5 · 10-31-2005, 10:26 AM

analog, I'm thinking the mike & stand and the floor and drain are grounded together to earth. This should minimize the chance of a serious problem. Of course, the amp is also grounded.

Yes, a wireless microphone system for voice is very affordable these days.

analog · 10-31-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

analog, I'm thinking the mike & stand and the floor and drain are grounded together to earth. This should minimize the chance of a serious problem. Of course, the amp is also grounded.

Yeah, that's why i said it was really rare... but it can happen.

Microphone stands are pretty much never grounded unless they're a permanent installation- and even then, it's rare unless it's being used outside. Also, the drain pipes from the baptistry may very well run for quite some length under the floor before actually going to ground, which won't help you if you grab an electrified mic.

I feel really bad for his family left behind, but also for those in attendance that day... electrocution can be a really gross death. Hopefully his brain went right away, so he didn't have to feel it.

martinguerre · 10-31-2005, 01:19 PM

from a discussion on this story elsewhere...i've worked sound crew for couple shows at school...and i'm amazed how many people don't know how much voltage is in a sound setup. Some of them were quite low voltage...some of them had a hell of a punch...but they assumed that if it wasn't wall sockets, it couldn't kill you.

a tragic accident to be sure...i loathe the smug satisfaction that some are taking (at other boards) in this story.

flat5 · 10-31-2005, 01:39 PM

The key is "grounded together".
Actually the mike stand is not a problem in itself.
The stand is on the floor... I guess the mike was screwed into the stand and not in a plastic holder.

A wireless mike may very well be cheaper than the cabling & connectors + mike required for an overhead system. In fact cheaper than a mic, stand, & cabling.

I hope CNN does a followup on this.

Pip · 10-31-2005, 03:11 PM

Either sound systems really are incredibly complicated electricity-wise or the freemason-like brotherhood of sound technicians conspire to make it seem that way. I've yet to meet a sound tech who doesn't explain sound fuckups with "unbalanced grounding" or "interferance from the lighting equipment". But I digress. This is a tragic story, water and electricity just don't mix. I hope this'll make other churches and similar places look over their equipment. Wireless mikes have their own problems, but at least they're not lethal (under normal usage).

flat5 · 10-31-2005, 07:13 PM

Well, those hum and buzz problems are tough ones. Esp. if the sound people are not providing the lighting equipment. Workaround may be to use inline preamps right at the mikes.

"Wireless mikes have their own problems"
True enough :-)

Kalnaur · 10-31-2005, 07:20 PM

And God smote the stupid.

5757 · 10-31-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalnaur

And God smote the stupid.

^

I was laughing out loud until I read that he died. It's most unfortunate. Too bad he had kids and a wife.

I feel like a sick F*ck right now because I still think it's a bit funny.

shakran · 10-31-2005, 08:55 PM

The consensus amongst the engineers at my shop is that there was probably a short in the audio board that allowed 120v current to go through the mic cable. As Analog said, it's very very rare, and this guy was just unlucky.

roto · 10-31-2005, 11:35 PM

Wired mic systems typically have 48V present at significant currents (tens of milliamps.) It really doesn't take much current at all to be lethal (less than 1mA through the heart can cause fibrillation). Typically one is pretty safe from electrocution, even at 120V line voltages, because the resistance of the body is pretty high and the current that flows at those voltages isn't very high. However, you throw a little water into the mix and provide a current path through the heart and you're in trouble.

flat5 · 10-31-2005, 11:57 PM

Roto, you are suggesting this church used very high quality condenser microphones?
I don't think so. At best, maybe a Shure SM series or EV104a or something newer.

My guess is a two wire power extension cord was used (no ground). Leakage in the primary of the amplifier power supply (transformer, perhaps) would finish the scenario.

shakran · 11-01-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

Roto, you are suggesting this church used very high quality condenser microphones?
I don't think so. At best, maybe a Shure SM series or EV104a or something newer.

My guess is a two wire power extension cord was used (no ground). Leakage in the primary of the amplifier power supply (transformer, perhaps) would finish the scenario.

Churches often have some of the best equipment out there. I know of several with video production systems that are as good as some TV stations. I was doing a story in a big one recently that had 6 DLP widescreen TV's set up so the worshipers could see the minister better via a videofeed that was shot on about a $50,000 camera.

flat5 · 11-01-2005, 07:28 AM

I stand corrected. I don't go to church. Guess things have changed in the last 2000 years. or 20

Rekna · 11-01-2005, 10:50 AM

this is why you use coordless mics and batterys when doing this. in the worst case you loose your mic and get a minor shock when the batteries discharge.

As for churches and equipment many of them have simply amazing AV equipment. The church that I go to practically has it's own recording studio.

10-31-2005, 09:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Pastor electrocuted while performing baptism http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/31/pas....ap/index.html Monday, October 31, 2005; Posted: 5:12 a.m. EST (10:12 GMT) WACO, Texas (AP) -- A pastor performing a baptism was electrocuted inside his church Sunday morning when he adjusted a nearby microphone while standing in water, a church employee said. The Rev. Kyle Lake, 33, was stepping into the baptistery as he reached out for the microphone, which produced an electric shock, said University Baptist Church community pastor Ben Dudley. Water in a baptistery usually reaches above the waist, said Byron Weathersbee, interim university chaplain at Baylor University. Lake was pronounced dead at Hillcrest Baptist Medical Center, nursing supervisor Pat Mahl said. The woman being baptized apparently had not stepped into the water and was not seriously injured. Pastors at University Baptist Church routinely use a microphone during baptisms, said Jamie Dudley, the wife of Ben Dudley and a business administrator at the church. "He was grabbing the microphone so everyone could hear," she said. "It's the only way you can be loud enough." About 800 people attended the morning service, which was larger than normal because it was homecoming weekend at nearby Baylor University, Dudley said. Lake had been at the church for nine years, the last seven as pastor. He is survived by his wife, Jennifer, a 5-year-old daughter and two 3-year-old sons. At a remembrance attended by about 1,000 people Sunday night at First Baptist Church, Ben Dudley told the UBC congregation that they would move forward as a church. "I don't know how, when, why, where or what's going to happen, but we will continue as a church in the community because that is what Kyle would have wanted," he said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A normal function of the church. Water up to the waist. Why had this not happened before (in this church)? Why was the electrical system not properly grounded. No one thought there might be a problem? I Googled on the headline to find another report/article on this. Did not find even the CNN one but did find other occurances of electrocution while performing baptism.

10-31-2005, 10:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	Cordless microphones. . .what a concept. I feel badly for his children though __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

10-31-2005, 10:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	I thought this was funny as hell (pun not intended) until I read about the wife and kids left behind. /begin funny Monty Python skit Scene: Pastor standing in water, raises hands to the air. Microphone is just at arms reach, and as he begins sermon, voice is quiet but audible. Large congregation, line of people to be baptized. Camera angle at back of congregation. Pastor: Lord, may you strike down all of the evil doers, all of the adulterers, all of the money-changers! May you Reap Vengance upon the guilty, may you show your power to the blasphemers, the wicked, those who work on the sabbath and take your name in vain! Can I get an AMEN?! No response from congregation Pastor: I SAID, CAN I GET AN AMEN?!?! No response Old lady sitting at front row: Maybe use a microphone, Pastor John... __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

10-31-2005, 01:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	from a discussion on this story elsewhere...i've worked sound crew for couple shows at school...and i'm amazed how many people don't know how much voltage is in a sound setup. Some of them were quite low voltage...some of them had a hell of a punch...but they assumed that if it wasn't wall sockets, it couldn't kill you. a tragic accident to be sure...i loathe the smug satisfaction that some are taking (at other boards) in this story. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

10-31-2005, 07:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Well, those hum and buzz problems are tough ones. Esp. if the sound people are not providing the lighting equipment. Workaround may be to use inline preamps right at the mikes. "Wireless mikes have their own problems" True enough :-) Last edited by flat5; 10-31-2005 at 07:16 PM..

10-31-2005, 10:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	what's that phrase about mysterious ways or some bs?? heh :shrug: I'm really not sure why anyone wouldn't have thought about that before hand. They could have just rigged a mic suspended from the celing and everything would be ok. or it could be some really bad ass halloween prank

10-31-2005, 10:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
analog Banned	You can ground a wired microphone system until you're blue in the face, but you can still sometimes get a shock- it's rare, but that's the nature of the beast. This guy was just really unlucky in that respect.

10-31-2005, 10:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	analog, I'm thinking the mike & stand and the floor and drain are grounded together to earth. This should minimize the chance of a serious problem. Of course, the amp is also grounded. Yes, a wireless microphone system for voice is very affordable these days.

10-31-2005, 01:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	The key is "grounded together". Actually the mike stand is not a problem in itself. The stand is on the floor... I guess the mike was screwed into the stand and not in a plastic holder. A wireless mike may very well be cheaper than the cabling & connectors + mike required for an overhead system. In fact cheaper than a mic, stand, & cabling. I hope CNN does a followup on this.

10-31-2005, 03:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Either sound systems really are incredibly complicated electricity-wise or the freemason-like brotherhood of sound technicians conspire to make it seem that way. I've yet to meet a sound tech who doesn't explain sound fuckups with "unbalanced grounding" or "interferance from the lighting equipment". But I digress. This is a tragic story, water and electricity just don't mix. I hope this'll make other churches and similar places look over their equipment. Wireless mikes have their own problems, but at least they're not lethal (under normal usage).

10-31-2005, 07:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kalnaur Psycho Location: Portland, Oregon	And God smote the stupid. __________________ PC: Can you help me out here HK? HK-47: I'm 98% percent sure this miniature organic meatbag wants you to help find his fellow miniature organic meatbags. PC: And the other 2 percent? HK-47: The other 2 percent is that he is just looking for trouble and needs to be blasted, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

10-31-2005, 08:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	The consensus amongst the engineers at my shop is that there was probably a short in the audio board that allowed 120v current to go through the mic cable. As Analog said, it's very very rare, and this guy was just unlucky.

10-31-2005, 11:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
roto Upright	Wired mic systems typically have 48V present at significant currents (tens of milliamps.) It really doesn't take much current at all to be lethal (less than 1mA through the heart can cause fibrillation). Typically one is pretty safe from electrocution, even at 120V line voltages, because the resistance of the body is pretty high and the current that flows at those voltages isn't very high. However, you throw a little water into the mix and provide a current path through the heart and you're in trouble.

10-31-2005, 11:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Roto, you are suggesting this church used very high quality condenser microphones? I don't think so. At best, maybe a Shure SM series or EV104a or something newer. My guess is a two wire power extension cord was used (no ground). Leakage in the primary of the amplifier power supply (transformer, perhaps) would finish the scenario.

11-01-2005, 07:28 AM	#18 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I stand corrected. I don't go to church. Guess things have changed in the last 2000 years. or 20

11-01-2005, 10:50 AM	#19 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	this is why you use coordless mics and batterys when doing this. in the worst case you loose your mic and get a minor shock when the batteries discharge. As for churches and equipment many of them have simply amazing AV equipment. The church that I go to practically has it's own recording studio.