Hurricane complaints? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dragonknight · 10-29-2005, 12:50 AM

Okay, so I realize that this could be my meaner nature coming out. If it is I'm truly sorry, and I'm not trying to be a dick. Here's my question though.

If you KNOW that a LARGE hurricane is coming your way, that it will most likely destroy ANYTHING in it's path, and are ordered to leave, how much room do you have to complain about how slow/adequately help is getting to you?

I mean you were told to leave and choose to stay. I my eyes that means your prepared to accept the consequences of your choices and live with them. To me that means you loose all right to complain about how much/quickly/or even adequate the help getting to you is.

Please give me some feed back on the matter as there may be things that I'm missing.

Carno · 10-29-2005, 02:38 AM

Yes that is how it should be, but people are dumb as shit and don't like to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions.

highthief · 10-29-2005, 04:09 AM

There's a couple of different answers:

1) You are a tourist in the Yucatan or wherever and YOU HAVE ELECTED TO GO THERE DURING HURRICANE SEASON - you have no right to bitch, whine or complain that the air line, travel agent, local or home government isn't doing enough for you. Dumbass, it's hurricane season in the 3rd world that's why the fares are so cheap in October. I have no sympathy for you.

2) You are some poor bastard who has the misfortune to own a shack in hurricane country, said shack contains all your earthly possessions and you have no means of transport to get you outta the way, I feel really badly for such folk, be they in the Bayou or Central America/Caribbean - these folks are between a rock and a hard place and every effort should be made to help them recover.

FatFreeGoodness · 10-29-2005, 08:32 AM

Jeb Bush pointed out
(a) The people in FLA who are complaining about the delay in getting food and water had several days to prepare;
(b) It only took about 48 hours to get supplies to the last areas.
(c) It’s not really very hard to stash 48 hours worth of food and water.
He has a valid point.

It is clear that by and large the people who are complaining are those who expect the government to take care of them. The most extenuating circumstance I can offer is that in many cases it appears that the government was already taking care of them, and thus their expectation was essentially that they could continue to rely on the government.
From their point of view, the government had already accepted the job (of caretaker), and let them down. A differing point of view is that although various government agencies have been providing subsidized housing and food, this does not imply that one or more of them has either a plan or the responsibility to move your butt to high ground.

Some people think it was the responsibility of "the government" to move people to safety, and /or provide immediate care; if this was not so (they argue), then it should be so.
But if you give the government that responsibility, you also have to give them the authority. And consider:
>If you order a person to evacuate and they do not do so, you must be prepared to compel them. This means armed force.
>If you compel a large population to leave their current shelter, you can’t just hope they find other shelter. In the first place, not all will, and in the second place, many will return too soon. Remember they did not want to leave at all, so they probably don’t want to stay gone either. Therefore…
>If you forcibly remove them you must detain them until its ok for them to return.
You will not be able to do this by sending the people to thousands of hotels… there will be no way to restrain them from slipping away. Thus you will have to establish mass housing in places like stadiums, and restrict ingress and egress.

Now, what would have been the result if federal troops had gone into New Orleans 24 hours before Katrina and ordered all the folks from the poor neighborhoods into busses, explaining “We are going to take you to federal detention centers for your own good. We promise to release you just as soon as we think it’s a good idea.” I doubt they would go willingly. I know I wouldn’t.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

(I explicitly exclude those who are clearly in the total care of others, such as those hospitalized or in jail. They clearly have good reasons to expect that those in charge will make the proper arrangements to ensure their safety.)

10-29-2005, 12:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
Dragonknight Insane Location: Hawaii	Hurricane complaints? Okay, so I realize that this could be my meaner nature coming out. If it is I'm truly sorry, and I'm not trying to be a dick. Here's my question though. If you KNOW that a LARGE hurricane is coming your way, that it will most likely destroy ANYTHING in it's path, and are ordered to leave, how much room do you have to complain about how slow/adequately help is getting to you? I mean you were told to leave and choose to stay. I my eyes that means your prepared to accept the consequences of your choices and live with them. To me that means you loose all right to complain about how much/quickly/or even adequate the help getting to you is. Please give me some feed back on the matter as there may be things that I'm missing.

10-29-2005, 02:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Yes that is how it should be, but people are dumb as shit and don't like to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

10-29-2005, 04:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	There's a couple of different answers: 1) You are a tourist in the Yucatan or wherever and YOU HAVE ELECTED TO GO THERE DURING HURRICANE SEASON - you have no right to bitch, whine or complain that the air line, travel agent, local or home government isn't doing enough for you. Dumbass, it's hurricane season in the 3rd world that's why the fares are so cheap in October. I have no sympathy for you. 2) You are some poor bastard who has the misfortune to own a shack in hurricane country, said shack contains all your earthly possessions and you have no means of transport to get you outta the way, I feel really badly for such folk, be they in the Bayou or Central America/Caribbean - these folks are between a rock and a hard place and every effort should be made to help them recover. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

10-29-2005, 08:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
FatFreeGoodness Tilted	Jeb Bush pointed out (a) The people in FLA who are complaining about the delay in getting food and water had several days to prepare; (b) It only took about 48 hours to get supplies to the last areas. (c) It’s not really very hard to stash 48 hours worth of food and water. He has a valid point. It is clear that by and large the people who are complaining are those who expect the government to take care of them. The most extenuating circumstance I can offer is that in many cases it appears that the government was already taking care of them, and thus their expectation was essentially that they could continue to rely on the government. From their point of view, the government had already accepted the job (of caretaker), and let them down. A differing point of view is that although various government agencies have been providing subsidized housing and food, this does not imply that one or more of them has either a plan or the responsibility to move your butt to high ground. Some people think it was the responsibility of "the government" to move people to safety, and /or provide immediate care; if this was not so (they argue), then it should be so. But if you give the government that responsibility, you also have to give them the authority. And consider: >If you order a person to evacuate and they do not do so, you must be prepared to compel them. This means armed force. >If you compel a large population to leave their current shelter, you can’t just hope they find other shelter. In the first place, not all will, and in the second place, many will return too soon. Remember they did not want to leave at all, so they probably don’t want to stay gone either. Therefore… >If you forcibly remove them you must detain them until its ok for them to return. You will not be able to do this by sending the people to thousands of hotels… there will be no way to restrain them from slipping away. Thus you will have to establish mass housing in places like stadiums, and restrict ingress and egress. Now, what would have been the result if federal troops had gone into New Orleans 24 hours before Katrina and ordered all the folks from the poor neighborhoods into busses, explaining “We are going to take you to federal detention centers for your own good. We promise to release you just as soon as we think it’s a good idea.” I doubt they would go willingly. I know I wouldn’t. What we have here is a failure to communicate. (I explicitly exclude those who are clearly in the total care of others, such as those hospitalized or in jail. They clearly have good reasons to expect that those in charge will make the proper arrangements to ensure their safety.)