Gatorade Frost

I feel like that some times with school, but I wouldn't want people recommending to me that dropping out is the right thing to do.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

denim

Why don't you ask her, Dawg? Some people get joy from their kids, so they want lots of them for more joy. Can't have too much joy, can ya?

ShaniFaye

I dont know about any body else....but there were times I felt that way and I only had ONE child (and for the haircut thing....it may be a "religion" thing....lots of church "doctrines" say women cant cut their hair...church of god and primitive baptists just two name to that I know of personally...if you notice in the family photos, NONE of the girls has short hair)

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ngdawg

That's my point, Shanifaye...we DON'T have 16 kids, don't want more and we can still feel overwhelmed. To voluntarily put one's body and mind through this and call it all gifts from God just boggles my mind. Yes, I did notice none of the girls had short hair, but my point was that Mom hasn't changed in 17 years, probably because she comes last....

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

abaya

Carn, you're right, it's rude of me to assume that these people are stupid. And yes, as many have said, this country is free enough that people such as these have every protected right to have this many children. I am not arguing with that. But I still have issues with WHY anyone would do this, if they had ANY awareness of America's population and consumerism impact on the rest of the world. And Carn, I am obviously not open-minded on this topic, and that's fine with me.

Now, people are going to get really mad at me, but intelligence? Anyone with a website like that... I mean, this is how they portray themselves, not how the "Internet" portrays them. Their favorite websites include CREATION SCIENCE EVANGELISM. wtf. (And did anyone see the "Modest Swimwear" link? http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-3.html) I know it's not related, but still, WTF. I saw absolutely no original thought on that whole website. Every other sentence was a Bible verse, and they seemed to chalk everything up to God without considering the demographic impact of their childbearing (and that's coming from me, someone who was a hard-core evangelical for 10 years).

The big question is WHY? The reason they have had so many kids is on their website... because they became convicted that using birth control was a sin. Because someone else TOLD them it was a sin. It all goes back to the church. So they decided to continue fucking like rabbits instead of using periodic abstinence to control their reproduction. This is the problem I have with Catholicism (again, coming from someone who was *very* involved with Catholicism for a while)... it demands that people of whatever economic background NOT use birth control... and while it's fine and good for a rich dude and his wife to pop out 16 and pay for all of them, how does a very poor family in Mexico or the Philippines cope with having that many children, all of them growing up poor? It doesn't help, and it's not realistic, at all.

Another point (I have a few): both of my grandparents had ten kids each. So believe me, I know how "great" it is to have a huge family. Have we forgotten, however, that that was a completely different generation, when people NEEDED a lot of children to help with the work and to bring in more income later in life? These days, at least in middle-class America, NO ONE needs that many children. There is no reason for it. We are no longer an agricultural or even manufacturing economy, and more than a handful of children is going to be a liability to the system, eventually.

I'd like to hear the opinions of the children in about 20 years... unless they're just totally brainwashed and they each have 15 children themselves. Imagine the demographic impact!!

/end rant, and bring on the pot shots, people.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

pig

well, it's not a pot shot since it's pretty close to my position, but i thought that was funny. sorry to disappoint.

edit Oh, and Carn...I personally took the discussion of this family getting free shit and the discussion of the perceived fact that people who are less intelligent seem to be multiplying exponentiously, while others are only going binaryish to be separated conversations...except the part about the guy being name Jimbob or whatever, and shit...how's someone supposed to ignore that? I mean, Jim Bob for crying out loud. However, I think there's pretty good evidence (if you believe that whole Evolution crap anyways) that intelligence has a genetic component (some would say heavily tied to the female gene or X, but then again it's often women saying that ) and thus...well, do the math. Then, again, nature has a way of working shit out (thank god for intelligent design!)

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

abaya

pigglet, I know it looked like a typo (is that why it looked funny?), but the word "convicted" is what many evangelicals use to describe what happens when God makes them feel guilty for their behavior. So actually, it was not a typo. You don't know how many times I said in my past life, "God has convicted me that I need to stop masturbating," etc etc.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

pig

abaya

Holy Crap, no pun intended!!! That's just crazy talk there....ummm...no..uummmm..offense - to you or any others. i guess i still think it's funny, and yet scary at the same time.

yeah, i assumed it was a slip. i can't decide if i think it's funnier now that i know it was intentional usage or not.

but it doesn't surprise me. i had a former roommate who was evangelical "in his past life" and his mom was still "on the wagon" and she "lived on my couch for three months" and "invited me to handle snakes" and "speak in tongues." we had great debates. I'll give it to her, she was about as open to discussion as anyone could be, considering the strength and inherent nature of her beliefs...but after her son got out of that social group, he had a really hard time. i wish them both well. etc

/end of threadjack.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

shesus

I'll respond to this the way I responded in chat:

I made a choice to not have children (at least at this point). I want an "I'm not having a baby" shower. You can build me a house and give me a washer and dryer. Oh yea, and I'm registered at Bloomingdale's and Steve Madden. The size for my clothes and shoes are there. Thanks!

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Gatorade Frost

Did this family ask for these gifts?

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

shesus

Gatorade: I'm sure they didn't, but they agreed to be on television. That is almost like asking for a gift.

I'm not jealous that these people are getting gifts. As ng said, I wouldn't want what they got and I definitely don't want their life. I'm also a very indpendent, proud person and I don't even like getting Christmas or birthday presents. I guess it's just that it's bad that they pick certain families to give things too and publicize. They are not alone in their insanity of giving birth to their own town and raising them. It's nothing that I would ever want to do. However, if they can support them and raise them to be functional human beings, then that is fine. However, many parents these days don't do that. Their kids may be great and grow up to be wonderful citizens. I guess if she's happy, then it's her life.

I am just really upset with the media all together and this is one more reason to throw in the ever growing pile of why media sucks. People sit around and wonder why no one knows what's going on in the world. People don't know what Bush is doing about anything. There is a war going on for no apparent logical reason, imo. Yet the news goes on and on about missing rich white girls, families making choices to breed like rabbits, and other issues that have nothing to do with this country. I think that this is just another sign of the disease that is affecting our country.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

guthmund

/sticks head in

Was that at me?

Oh well, I'll answer it anyway

I'm not blaming the families themselves, I mean, what kind of snob am I to turn down free shit? I blame the people who reward them. Reward them for what basically is a relatively routine biological act. It just doesn't seem right.

/off to read the website....

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

Grasshopper Green

This is where I see a problem. The older children are already parents, and they aren't full grown yet, and certainly didn't choose to be parents at a young age. Having grown up in Utah, I saw this alot. Mormons have big families. Several of my friends were the oldest of 7 or 8 children, and a lot of their time after school and on weekends went towards babysitting and taking care of the younger children. Being a parent isn't just about providing food and shelter for your kids, which this family doesn't seem to have a problem with, it's also about being involved with your child, raising them to be a responsible person, and just being there for them when they have a problem or something. I find it hard to imagine that this is happening in this household between all the chores, meals, diaper changes, and homework.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ShaniFaye

Its not just "homework" she and her husband teach each of those children themselves....if thats not being involved with your child I dont know what is.

/end of comment from the parent of a homeschooled child

guthmund, unfortunately yes that was for you, I just went back and re read your post and I originally read it in the wrong context....Im sorry

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

pig

sheesus

it's not news, it's entertainment.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Gilda

May I point out that if these gifts are part of what helps sustain their household, then they are not, in fact, capable of caring for all of their children themselves?

If you cannot afford to care for a child yourself, you shouldn't be making one.

I find the media coverage . . . not exactly disturbing, but curious. Is this something to celebrate? Having or not having children is the result of a conscious choice.

I think the contrast with those families who adopt a dozen or more kids isn't between families that have their own children vs. those who don't. It's hard to articulate the difference. Adopting a dozen children helps to relieve the financial and social burden on society represented by children who for whatever reason remain in state care systems, and for those families who do so out of a love for children, I think this is a noble thing.

Having a bunch of kids youself, if you can care for them yourself, is essentially a neutral act as it impacts society, and if it's your choice, that's cool with me.

I guess that's where I see the difference.

I'd kill to be able to have children myself, but I'm far, far from beaing jealous of these people. Adoption of one rather than having 16 of my own? It is to laugh.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

maximusveritas

As an Arkansan I can assure you all that Jim Bob is indeed as stupid as his name implies. He ran for Senate over here and everyone other than the most evangelical Christians knew he was a complete joke.
I don't have a problem with them having all these children if they can take care of them. It's not ideal, but if it works for them and the children aren't in obvious harm, let them be. But as far as random people giving them gifts, that's one of my pet peeves as well. There are plenty of worthwhile causes to give your money to; this isn't one of them.

shesus

But the point is that it in ON the news. Isn't E supposed to have the entertainment news? If journalists want their respect back they have to stop spinning the fact, they have to stop reporting entertainment, and inform the society of real news.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Gatorade Frost

Doesn't the today show normally do this kind of thing?

There are several 24/7 news around the clock stations, along with the internet and all. It's not as if in this day and age we're all of the sudden in a media black out of information. You get ten pages on google for this one thing? I'm sure you could find equally as many on any other particularly important subject going on right now.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

ngdawg

Our point and I am sure Shesus will correct me if I'm wrong, is-why IS this anywhere ?
A woman in PA is one of 27 children...27!!! Do we read about that family? No... As I mentioned earlier, a woman in NJ lost her home to a fire this week-she's mother to 19....nothing to Google about that either...
This, it would seem, is a publicity stunt by this family. The father wants to run for the senate. They will be featured on no less than two cable channels for extended periods.
The woman in PA? Father is a coal miner...The woman in NJ? She's black and some of those kids were adopted. And she's a lot more newsworthy than some agenda-seeking ultra-religious family. It's great to feature those 'feel-good' stories when they occur-this isn't really one of them. And the fact that people fall for this doesn't do much for our faith in the collective intelligence of the tv-viewing public to be handing baby gifts, etc. to a family that apparently does not need them, yet families displaced by Katrina are still struggling to get the scraps of their lives back, but get pushed out of the 'news' because some woman keeps pumping out kids.

edit: I stand corrected on one point-the woman in NJ was mom to 18, not 19.
Adoptive mom of 18 loses home to fire
Part of this story:
Her story, unfairly short: She has since 1983 taken in 18 children, all disabled in some way, physically or emotionally, sometimes both, including Crystal, now 19, a blind quadriplegic in diapers and a feeding tube who left the house for school just before faulty wiring set it ablaze. Black children, brown children, white children.

Turner, 53, an Army veteran and divorced, adopted nine; others were foster kids. Her body, wrecked in a car crash when she was a teenager, couldn't give birth. Her body betrayed her in other ways -- cervical cancer, now in remission, asthma and myasthenia gravis, a degenerative disease that leaves her looking tired beyond hope for rest.

Nine of her children -- now all teenagers -- were still living with her in the house she bought on Harrison Place in Irvington because it was so big and so cheap. So were five dogs, a frog and a rabbit.
They all got out unharmed. Except the rabbit. It died.

"We were lucky," says Turner and, of course, that's true. Three people died recently in a fire blocks way at the Irvington Motor Lodge.

But, lucky as she is, Turner and her nine children still have no home. They stay with neighbors, the Johnsons across the street, who have five children of their own.

"They've been beautiful, but we can't stay there. It's not fair to them."

So, now she must find temporary housing in a place big enough, with landlords willing enough, to accept 10 people, including Crystal, who needs a hospital bed and other specialized equipment to survive.

"Who has that kind of room?" she asks, knowing the answer. She recites the government and private agencies that have tried to find a place and failed.

There is insurance, but probably not enough to rebuild. "I guess I should have increased the coverage," she says, then blames herself for "not thinking right."

One of her kids, Rochelle, 19, says she believes it will work out. "Mama is so strong," she says. She and her twin, Michelle, were adopted by Turner 15 years ago.

Three days after the fire, Michelle returned home from Russia where she represented the United States in an international boxing competition. Turner had to tell her at the airport that everything was gone.

"But we did find one of her belts," says Rochelle. One of two amateur championship belts Michelle won. "It was burnt and wet, but you can tell what it is."

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

joe_eschaton

Nobody should be allowed to have 16 kids. That's sixteen quanta of suffering inflicted on an already agonized and identity-crisis ridden world. I think the evolutionary spray and pray of this approach to reproduction is seriously contemptuous of our collective gene pool. Such blatant lust and selfishness does the species no credit at at all, and unless the parents have some genetic claim to fame like being an athlete and a nobel prize winner the whole family should be stuffed in a sack with 16 kittens and a housebrick and thrown from the top of Sydney Harbour Bridge (For it has sharks) Man.

guthmund

Please don't be. I went back and re-read it and if I hadn't known what I meant, I probably would've read it that way too.....does that make any sense?


brian and Medusa brought up an interesting point that I think I'd like to say something about. 16 kids require a lot of attention, supervision, 'correction' (as Mrs. Jim Bob says so eloquently on the website), I just imagine that somewhere some kid is getting the short end of the parental stick. If he/she isn't being brushed off by Dad, whose busy off running for something somewhere, or Mom, flailing under her mountains of laundry, then it's the bigger kids, who have to spend their time making sure little Timmy brushes his teeth, combs his hair and isn't sticking something dangerous up his nose. From reading the schedule they've set up it seems to me she's not raising kids, but rather her personal troupe of house cleaners, baby sitters and for lucky Jill and Jana, fabulous job-training in the food service industry.

Not to mention the accomodations. 16 kids and two adults in a three bedroom house? Wow. I live in a three bedroom house. With my two roommates it seems cramped come late Saturday night when we're all there. I can't imagine 15 more of us packed in for any extended amount of time.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is... I said earlier that I didn't have a problem with them having dozens of kids as long as they were taken care of accordingly, but if the Jim Bob's are sloughing off their parental duty to the elder kids and stacking them in like cord wood to sleep each night...It just doesn't seem all that responsible to me.

Last...very superficial...Married folks who call each other 'mommy' and 'daddy,' creep me the fuck out.

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

analog

*loud sigh*

WHY do people need to keep spitting out kids? "ready for #17"???

I will say this- at least they're able to care for all these kids, without putting the burden on the rest of us (via government assistance). As long as YOU can pay for all your spawn, you can have as many as you want. The moment you can't afford to have a kid, and have one ANYWAY, that's when I take issue.

pig

Sorry for the confusion - I was expressing my contempt for the normal crap that calls itself the "news."

The fact that this particular story is getting coverage to the extent it apparently has been is a load of guano, in my opinion. Some chick in AR makes a hobby out of making babies and then gets on the Today Show = huh?

The fact that we can have an interesting discussion on the ethical decisions involving in childrearing in the 21st century based off of it is useful, I suppose.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

flstf

A family with 16 kids here, a family with 16 kids there, soon we are talking some serious population growth.

pig

and that's about $240 worth of puddin love right there.

/because it cooks, then it chills

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style